Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
As dishonest as you not considering the pricedrop in, let's face it, unused melee options that got replaced with a cheaper option?
Try again.
That's not how that works, but you twist whatever you need to make yourself feel better.
Sure lad.
i just provided the math for the cheapest possible CSM terminator before and after vigilus.
which is a 6 pts drop. or 14.28 %.
Which is and was considered a fair and overall good drop might i add.
and fully within the suggested 10-20% of xenomancer.
Which you stated would be terrible. Without anything or attempt to back your own psotion up, might i add.
I also fail to see what would be that terrible about a 110 pts CSM squad compared to a 130 CSM squad.f.e and it also is in line with the PM drop.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Martel732 wrote: This does make upping cultists to 5 ppm seem even more ridiculous now.
Which should never have happened in the first place.
Agreed, but they had to try to make Chaos Marines the focus again...
The ideal option would have been "Cultist units do not take up the mandatory Troop slots in a Detachment".
Or they just make Chosen the base Troop choice instead of trying to represent Renegades options in the first place. Cultists vs Chosen vs Cult Marines with Vet stats is actually a choice to make.
Not really no, everyone would still take the Cultists orcult marines.
Chosen are just 1 pts more expensive csms with a free chainsword for their trouble.
Free attack AND Chainsword, LD (not worth anything, granted), and the ability to be loaded to the brim with Special Weapons or Combi-Bolters. Power Weapons really shouldn't take up a slot on them and should just replace Chainswords as necessary but I digress.
on a w 1 model?
And all of this costs points.
And CP, huge ammounts of CP and you just made the most efficent way of generating that CP more expensive.
Gonna tell you, not a fan of that.
If you need the durability you can go Alpha Legion, but it makes sense to have the Marine units actually be Elite in legion forces. I mean, you really can't go cheaper than Tactical Marines and it isn't like we can't assume a future bonus for Chaos at some point. It's 3 additional points for an Intercessor to gain that extra wound and AP-1. So the jump to a Chosen having Rapid Fire 2 at 16 points at the expense of having one less wound (so being more durable to multi damage weapons but less so to D1, and having slightly less range) isn't exactly unreasonable.
Now if you're generally complaining that W2 should be standard for Marines I dunno what to tell you.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Martel732 wrote: This does make upping cultists to 5 ppm seem even more ridiculous now.
Which should never have happened in the first place.
Agreed, but they had to try to make Chaos Marines the focus again...
The ideal option would have been "Cultist units do not take up the mandatory Troop slots in a Detachment".
Or they just make Chosen the base Troop choice instead of trying to represent Renegades options in the first place. Cultists vs Chosen vs Cult Marines with Vet stats is actually a choice to make.
Not really no, everyone would still take the Cultists orcult marines.
Chosen are just 1 pts more expensive csms with a free chainsword for their trouble.
Free attack AND Chainsword, LD (not worth anything, granted), and the ability to be loaded to the brim with Special Weapons or Combi-Bolters. Power Weapons really shouldn't take up a slot on them and should just replace Chainswords as necessary but I digress.
on a w 1 model?
And all of this costs points.
And CP, huge ammounts of CP and you just made the most efficent way of generating that CP more expensive.
Gonna tell you, not a fan of that.
If you need the durability you can go Alpha Legion, but it makes sense to have the Marine units actually be Elite in legion forces. I mean, you really can't go cheaper than Tactical Marines and it isn't like we can't assume a future bonus for Chaos at some point. It's 3 additional points for an Intercessor to gain that extra wound and AP-1. So the jump to a Chosen having Rapid Fire 2 at 16 points at the expense of having one less wound (so being more durable to multi damage weapons but less so to D1, and having slightly less range) isn't exactly unreasonable.
Now if you're generally complaining that W2 should be standard for Marines I dunno what to tell you.
The issue is that there would be no meat for absorbing damage and fragility atm is allready an issue.
It would just lead to even more frontloading for Chaos.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Martel732 wrote: This does make upping cultists to 5 ppm seem even more ridiculous now.
Which should never have happened in the first place.
Agreed, but they had to try to make Chaos Marines the focus again...
The ideal option would have been "Cultist units do not take up the mandatory Troop slots in a Detachment".
Or they just make Chosen the base Troop choice instead of trying to represent Renegades options in the first place. Cultists vs Chosen vs Cult Marines with Vet stats is actually a choice to make.
Not really no, everyone would still take the Cultists orcult marines.
Chosen are just 1 pts more expensive csms with a free chainsword for their trouble.
Free attack AND Chainsword, LD (not worth anything, granted), and the ability to be loaded to the brim with Special Weapons or Combi-Bolters. Power Weapons really shouldn't take up a slot on them and should just replace Chainswords as necessary but I digress.
on a w 1 model?
And all of this costs points.
And CP, huge ammounts of CP and you just made the most efficent way of generating that CP more expensive.
Gonna tell you, not a fan of that.
If you need the durability you can go Alpha Legion, but it makes sense to have the Marine units actually be Elite in legion forces. I mean, you really can't go cheaper than Tactical Marines and it isn't like we can't assume a future bonus for Chaos at some point. It's 3 additional points for an Intercessor to gain that extra wound and AP-1. So the jump to a Chosen having Rapid Fire 2 at 16 points at the expense of having one less wound (so being more durable to multi damage weapons but less so to D1, and having slightly less range) isn't exactly unreasonable.
Now if you're generally complaining that W2 should be standard for Marines I dunno what to tell you.
The issue is that there would be no meat for absorbing damage and fragility atm is allready an issue.
It would just lead to even more frontloading for Chaos.
Honestly my ideal is that Cuktists would act as a wall, treating all Footstartes as characters for the purpose of targeting for shooting. Once they go 5 man and less, they stop acting like they should be a shield.
Just an idea of course but I would still take Chosen as troops in their current condition.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Xenomancers wrote: 2 points off an intercessor or it gets +1 attack and -1 AP and 3 chapter tactics? Give me a break dude. These changes are far more powerful than anything I ever suggested. I'm going to suffer for it too. All in 9th and 10th edition everyone is gonna cry about how OP marines were in 8th. When for 2 years of the eddition they were the worst army in the game and everyone stopped playing the game because the end of the eddition became a joke. Been here before man. It was called 7th edition.
Do you think nothing has changed about GW's approach since 7th?
+1A matters only some of the time.
Each chapter got an additional bit added - and marine tactics were panned as awful, so...
-1AP to infantry only likely. I'm not sure how AP4 plasma changes the world. AP1 bolters and chainswords puts marines back to where people were asking them to be.
I think they haven't changed their approach. I'm ready for sisters of battle Ynnari style to come out next and a daemon army that can summon unlimmited deamons for free or something. That is the direction things are going if this continues.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Xenomancers wrote: To be fair....they did choose the wrong side . More seriously. Everyone should be crying about this. These SM rules are nutts. Should have just listened to Xeno....I just wanted up to 10-20% drops on most marine units. You guys laughed. Now look. Marines are OPAF.
Point drops to that level would have been a terrible idea. And then calling it OPAF on the other end of this is just...I dunno man...
There is no quicker way to derail a thread than to bring up points. Watch this:
AHEM..
GUARDMEN SQUADS ARE OVERCOSTED!
You did it wrong, you should've said IS are overcosted x3 in a mirror with some candles and a pentagramm nearby.
No never do that, if you do a guard tank commander will arrive and nuke a unit with unstoppable plasma for which there is no counter. I thought I warned you all of how serious a thing that is, don't ever do that. The guard boogeyman is listening.
Xenomancers wrote: To be fair....they did choose the wrong side . More seriously. Everyone should be crying about this. These SM rules are nutts. Should have just listened to Xeno....I just wanted up to 10-20% drops on most marine units. You guys laughed. Now look. Marines are OPAF.
Point drops to that level would have been a terrible idea. And then calling it OPAF on the other end of this is just...I dunno man...
There is no quicker way to derail a thread than to bring up points. Watch this:
AHEM..
GUARDMEN SQUADS ARE OVERCOSTED!
You did it wrong, you should've said IS are overcosted x3 in a mirror with some candles and a pentagramm nearby.
No never do that, if you do a guard tank commander will arrive and nuke a unit with unstoppable plasma for which there is no counter. I thought I warned you all of how serious a thing that is, don't ever do that. The guard boogeyman is listening.
But i am allready here, sort off.
General Meinel is watching you.
Waiting for the perfect Moment to roll you over with his chimera!
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
I think they haven't changed their approach. I'm ready for sisters of battle Ynnari style to come out next and a daemon army that can summon unlimmited deamons for free or something. That is the direction things are going if this continues.
And yet Ynnari has been nerfed. Ynnari and castellans were not randomly nerfed, either.
CA while not always buffing or nerfing to the community's desires did so in appropriate places and never in obscene measure (outside apocalypse units that almost no one owns).
Hey, if that is how I must go, I face my end bravely !
The one good thing with the new marine stuff is simply this though, aside from some jokes I didn't see anyone bellyaching about Guard. Dare I say people may be happy with their new over the top rules and units ? I hope so, at least for a couple months before we go back to Guard rage while being afraid of both Eldars once more.
I think they haven't changed their approach. I'm ready for sisters of battle Ynnari style to come out next and a daemon army that can summon unlimmited deamons for free or something. That is the direction things are going if this continues.
And yet Ynnari has been nerfed. Ynnari and castellans were not randomly nerfed, either.
CA while not always buffing or nerfing to the community's desires did so in appropriate places and never in obscene measure (outside apocalypse units that almost no one owns).
Que?
Come again, mind reminding me to what happened to FW index lists?
It isnt just apocalypse and Lord of wars you know.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/07 22:51:59
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
The one good thing with the new marine stuff is simply this though, aside from some jokes I didn't see anyone bellyaching about Guard. Dare I say people may be happy with their new over the top rules and units ? I hope so, at least for a couple months before we go back to Guard rage while being afraid of both Eldars once more.
I question how much of a threat at least Craftworld Eldar are going to be after the codex comes out. With the new Incursor Squad ignoring cover and to hit mods, I could see Alaitoc getting knocked out of orbit real fast.
I think they haven't changed their approach. I'm ready for sisters of battle Ynnari style to come out next and a daemon army that can summon unlimmited deamons for free or something. That is the direction things are going if this continues.
And yet Ynnari has been nerfed. Ynnari and castellans were not randomly nerfed, either.
CA while not always buffing or nerfing to the community's desires did so in appropriate places and never in obscene measure (outside apocalypse units that almost no one owns).
Why nerf Ynnari and Castellans if you are going to make space marines OP? I don't understand it. You don't have to first make an army OP and then nerf it. You can just listen to common sense and make the army reasonable to start with.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
I think they haven't changed their approach. I'm ready for sisters of battle Ynnari style to come out next and a daemon army that can summon unlimmited deamons for free or something. That is the direction things are going if this continues.
And yet Ynnari has been nerfed. Ynnari and castellans were not randomly nerfed, either.
CA while not always buffing or nerfing to the community's desires did so in appropriate places and never in obscene measure (outside apocalypse units that almost no one owns).
Why nerf Ynnari and Castellans if you are going to make space marines OP? I don't understand it. You don't have to first make an army OP and then nerf it. You can just listen to common sense and make the army reasonable to start with.
Maybee because you might sell less goods to the meta chaisers, which would be the equivalent to whales in the gaming industry?
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
I think they haven't changed their approach. I'm ready for sisters of battle Ynnari style to come out next and a daemon army that can summon unlimmited deamons for free or something. That is the direction things are going if this continues.
And yet Ynnari has been nerfed. Ynnari and castellans were not randomly nerfed, either.
CA while not always buffing or nerfing to the community's desires did so in appropriate places and never in obscene measure (outside apocalypse units that almost no one owns).
Why nerf Ynnari and Castellans if you are going to make space marines OP? I don't understand it. You don't have to first make an army OP and then nerf it. You can just listen to common sense and make the army reasonable to start with.
You've run out and made the assumption that they're now OP when just a few days ago you were complaining how overcosted the Executioner became...before you had the codex in hand.
I think they haven't changed their approach. I'm ready for sisters of battle Ynnari style to come out next and a daemon army that can summon unlimmited deamons for free or something. That is the direction things are going if this continues.
And yet Ynnari has been nerfed. Ynnari and castellans were not randomly nerfed, either.
CA while not always buffing or nerfing to the community's desires did so in appropriate places and never in obscene measure (outside apocalypse units that almost no one owns).
Why nerf Ynnari and Castellans if you are going to make space marines OP? I don't understand it. You don't have to first make an army OP and then nerf it. You can just listen to common sense and make the army reasonable to start with.
You've run out and made the assumption that they're now OP when just a few days ago you were complaining how overcosted the Executioner became...before you had the codex in hand.
Lets consider that when I made those statements executioners weren't getting chapter tactics and it just received a whopping 40 point nerf? That nerf was clearly a mistake too. The unit hasn't even been tested. Plus with it going up in points and not repulsors it makes no sense. Repulsors aren't really much worse than an executioner - certainly not 60ish points cheaper. Both units did just get 16% more durable become a lot harder to degrade and now can overwatch on 5's with a bucket of dice rerolling all hits. It is a pretty insane buff. I think it is pretty clear that marines are OP at this point. We don't even know what the new psychic powers and strats are gonna be yet. Like...imagine that space marines get shoot twice stratagems move twice abilties and +1 to hit spells and +1 to wound strats? Like....we already know what chaos does with that AND they don't have units nearly this good.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/07 23:27:38
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Lets consider that when I made those statements executioners weren't getting chapter tactics and it just received a whopping 40 point nerf? That nerf was clearly a mistake too. The unit hasn't even been tested. Plus with it going up in points and not repulsors it makes no sense. Repulsors aren't really much worse than an executioner - certainly not 60ish points cheaper. Both units did just get 16% more durable become a lot harder to degrade and now can overwatch on 5's with a bucket of dice rerolling all hits. It is a pretty insane buff. I think it is pretty clear that marines are OP at this point. We don't even know what the new psychic powers and strats are gonna be yet. Like...imagine that space marines get shoot twice stratagems move twice abilties and +1 to hit spells and +1 to wound strats? Like....we already know what chaos does with that AND they don't have units nearly this good.
But you knew a codex was coming. The point was made several times.
The proper thing to do is judge everything when it's out, right?
Let's not ruin a good hyperbolic conversation with dreams of reasoned debate and giving time to see what shakes out. Full power to panic mode.
Jokes aside, if this is all broke as a joke we'll all hear about it quite a lot as the days go on soon enough. Let's not hasten that time so soon, it hasn't even dropped fully yet, we have a few weeks left before full rage mode needs to be unleashed upon us all.
Lets consider that when I made those statements executioners weren't getting chapter tactics and it just received a whopping 40 point nerf? That nerf was clearly a mistake too. The unit hasn't even been tested. Plus with it going up in points and not repulsors it makes no sense. Repulsors aren't really much worse than an executioner - certainly not 60ish points cheaper. Both units did just get 16% more durable become a lot harder to degrade and now can overwatch on 5's with a bucket of dice rerolling all hits. It is a pretty insane buff. I think it is pretty clear that marines are OP at this point. We don't even know what the new psychic powers and strats are gonna be yet. Like...imagine that space marines get shoot twice stratagems move twice abilties and +1 to hit spells and +1 to wound strats? Like....we already know what chaos does with that AND they don't have units nearly this good.
But you knew a codex was coming. The point was made several times.
The proper thing to do is judge everything when it's out, right?
The codex was slated for like decemeber - we are getting it in august. It effects me now too. I have 2 executioners ready to go and they get preemptively nerfed. Granted they are probably playable now with chapter tactics and possibly stratagems - they aren't going to be a top choice. That was a nasty bait and switch if I've ever seen one. The point I was trying to make earlier and obviously failing at is the game isn't played it its final version. It is played week to weak and is constantly changing. Perhaps a year from now everything could reach a nice place of balance but right now I have to play with the rules in front of me and I complain about the rules in front of me. I'm happy to see marines getting better but when the shoe is on the other foot I don't feel putting them over the top is going to make the game any more fun for me or my mates. Now instead of having a good match I could be happy about I'll probably win a game and have my opponents bitching about hope OP marines are now. Not cool.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
The codex was slated for like decemeber - we are getting it in august. It effects me now too. I have 2 executioners ready to go and they get preemptively nerfed. Granted they are probably playable now with chapter tactics and possibly stratagems - they aren't going to be a top choice. That was a nasty bait and switch if I've ever seen one. The point I was trying to make earlier and obviously failing at is the game isn't played it its final version. It is played week to weak and is constantly changing. Perhaps a year from now everything could reach a nice place of balance but right now I have to play with the rules in front of me and I complain about the rules in front of me. I'm happy to see marines getting better but when the shoe is on the other foot I don't feel putting them over the top is going to make the game any more fun for me or my mates. Now instead of having a good match I could be happy about I'll probably win a game and have my opponents bitching about hope OP marines are now. Not cool.
Yes, I agree with the premise. I'm just not confident it will at that level of OP.
That was a nasty bait and switch if I've ever seen one.
It wasn't. Everyone here is well aware that your units can take a nerf at any time. If it winds up being subpar it will get boosted. If it's too strong it will be nerfed.
The codex was slated for like decemeber - we are getting it in august. It effects me now too. I have 2 executioners ready to go and they get preemptively nerfed. Granted they are probably playable now with chapter tactics and possibly stratagems - they aren't going to be a top choice. That was a nasty bait and switch if I've ever seen one. The point I was trying to make earlier and obviously failing at is the game isn't played it its final version. It is played week to weak and is constantly changing. Perhaps a year from now everything could reach a nice place of balance but right now I have to play with the rules in front of me and I complain about the rules in front of me. I'm happy to see marines getting better but when the shoe is on the other foot I don't feel putting them over the top is going to make the game any more fun for me or my mates. Now instead of having a good match I could be happy about I'll probably win a game and have my opponents bitching about hope OP marines are now. Not cool.
Yes, I agree with the premise. I'm just not confident it will at that level of OP.
That was a nasty bait and switch if I've ever seen one.
It wasn't. Everyone here is well aware that your units can take a nerf at any time. If it winds up being subpar it will get boosted. If it's too strong it will be nerfed.
Taking a nerf without seeing any play though? That is false advertising.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
The codex was slated for like decemeber - we are getting it in august. It effects me now too. I have 2 executioners ready to go and they get preemptively nerfed. Granted they are probably playable now with chapter tactics and possibly stratagems - they aren't going to be a top choice. That was a nasty bait and switch if I've ever seen one. The point I was trying to make earlier and obviously failing at is the game isn't played it its final version. It is played week to weak and is constantly changing. Perhaps a year from now everything could reach a nice place of balance but right now I have to play with the rules in front of me and I complain about the rules in front of me. I'm happy to see marines getting better but when the shoe is on the other foot I don't feel putting them over the top is going to make the game any more fun for me or my mates. Now instead of having a good match I could be happy about I'll probably win a game and have my opponents bitching about hope OP marines are now. Not cool.
Yes, I agree with the premise. I'm just not confident it will at that level of OP.
That was a nasty bait and switch if I've ever seen one.
It wasn't. Everyone here is well aware that your units can take a nerf at any time. If it winds up being subpar it will get boosted. If it's too strong it will be nerfed.
Taking a nerf without seeing any play though? That is false advertising.
or GW correcting a typo
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
"a massive rule overhaul and rules bloat cannot possibly raise concerns among the players, especially in light of what happened in previous editions of the game" this sums up reading your post.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/08 04:00:07
Generic characters disappearing? Elite units of your army losing options and customizations? No longer finding that motivation to convert?
Your army could suffer Post-Chapterhouse Stress Disorder (PCSD)! If you think that your army is suffering one or more of the aforementioned symptoms, call us at 789-666-1982 for a quick diagnosis!
Not only will GW prob more models, but honestly it makes more sense for the game to risk Marines being OP than underpowered. They're supposed to be an elite army, they need powers. If Marines are OP they can just push the point costs up next CA. If Marines are too weak, there's less good ways to fix them. If you instead dropped Marines by 20%, that really pushes them into horde territory and they run into the floor of lots of other armies' units that are supposed to be cheaper. Ex. it'd be pretty weird if a Marine became cheaper than a Sister even though from a tabletop perspective that might make sense.
bort wrote: Not only will GW prob more models, but honestly it makes more sense for the game to risk Marines being OP than underpowered. They're supposed to be an elite army, they need powers. If Marines are OP they can just push the point costs up next CA. If Marines are too weak, there's less good ways to fix them. If you instead dropped Marines by 20%, that really pushes them into horde territory and they run into the floor of lots of other armies' units that are supposed to be cheaper. Ex. it'd be pretty weird if a Marine became cheaper than a Sister even though from a tabletop perspective that might make sense.
Why would Marines be CHEAPER than a Sister?
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
I'm saying if you hypothetically kept dropping the points of regular marines until they didnt suck instead of giving them useful powers. A tactical marine doesnt have much statwise over say a sister, but the sister get powers and abilities too.
It makes much more sense to make marines an elite army that will hopefully justify a higher per model cost.
Is the Executioner being moaned about the Pred Executioner? Did it go up in CA?
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
. More seriously. Everyone should be crying about this. These 
Bonespitta's Badmoons 1441 pts. 
