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Martel732 wrote:
Still nothing to put in the pod...

There is plenty.

Spoletta wrote:
Ok, this is getting too much now.
Welcome to necron 7th!

Say goodbye to any semblance of balance we finally got in this edition after years of careful changes!

Now we can only hope in the next CA to increase the cost of everything marine...

We're not going to know for sure until we get a major tournament post these changes tbh. I'm not certain this is enough to make Marines dominate in all honesty - but the proof will be in the playing!

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Still nothing to put in the pod...

There is plenty.

Of old marines? Okay.

Spoletta wrote:
Ok, this is getting too much now.
Welcome to necron 7th!

Say goodbye to any semblance of balance we finally got in this edition after years of careful changes!

Now we can only hope in the next CA to increase the cost of everything marine...

I dont agree with your assessment at the moment. It could go south, but I'm comfortable waiting for the book.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:


At this stage, wouldn't even be surprised.
Just a bit disheartened really.

Similar boat here.

On the one hand facing a bunch of intercessors never bugged me too much. Then again stalker rifles are wiping all my armor and bonus while in cover. I suppose the 5++ finally comes into play.

....




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Ok, this is getting too much now.
Welcome to necron 7th!

Say goodbye to any semblance of balance we finally got in this edition after years of careful changes!

Now we can only hope in the next CA to increase the cost of everything marine...

I dont agree with your assessment at the moment. It could go south, but I'm comfortable waiting for the book.

I mean it's cult marines but better at this point.
That's nice for them

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Ok, this is getting too much now.
Welcome to necron 7th!

Say goodbye to any semblance of balance we finally got in this edition after years of careful changes!

Now we can only hope in the next CA to increase the cost of everything marine...

I dont agree with your assessment at the moment. It could go south, but I'm comfortable waiting for the book.

Yeah, maybe i'm just seeing things really badly because this is really a lot to be taken all at once...
I really hope i'm wrong.

Martel732 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Still nothing to put in the pod...

There is plenty.

Of old marines? Okay.

No penalty or ap4 grav/pc cannons will be to take on primaris. 11" flamers. Ere we go black templars.

I suppose now there might.

Apparently the doctrines need all models in the army to have angels of death to get.

SOUP'S OFF THE MENU!

Wayniac wrote:
Apparently the doctrines need all models in the army to have angels of death to get.

SOUP'S OFF THE MENU!

GW I LOVE YOU, BUT WOULD YOU STOP CAUSING ME ALL THESE MOOD CHANGES?!?

Think about my hearth for once!!!!

Wayniac wrote:
Apparently the doctrines need all models in the army to have angels of death to get.

SOUP'S OFF THE MENU!

Well that kinda means you can run all Marines as allies then. However, in a way that brings back the good thing about Marines in 6th/7th and that's the mixing to get the most effective Marines for your Chapter. That's kinda welcome if you ask me.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Apparently the doctrines need all models in the army to have angels of death to get.

SOUP'S OFF THE MENU!

Well that kinda means you can run all Marines as allies then. However, in a way that brings back the good thing about Marines in 6th/7th and that's the mixing to get the most effective Marines for your Chapter. That's kinda welcome if you ask me.

it's better than mixing in Imperium. Not perfect but not awful.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Apparently the doctrines need all models in the army to have angels of death to get.

SOUP'S OFF THE MENU!

Well that kinda means you can run all Marines as allies then. However, in a way that brings back the good thing about Marines in 6th/7th and that's the mixing to get the most effective Marines for your Chapter. That's kinda welcome if you ask me.

If im interpreting the White Scars supplement right, its a bit of a mixed bag. Your whole army will need to be a single chapter if they want the super-doctrines (IE: White Scars in a mixed Marine army wont get their spicy extra damage punches), but they'll still get the basic doctrines.

 Stux wrote:
We're not going to know for sure until we get a major tournament

I'm starting to really dislike how tournament results are being taken as the be-all and end-all of balance.

I don't really care how the new Marine codex is going to fare in an Imperial Soup/Alaitoc flier spam/insert-meta-list-here context, I'm more concerned that the casual games I play with my friends, using non-meta lists, are going to be curbstomps for our resident Marine players.

catbarf wrote:

 Stux wrote:
We're not going to know for sure until we get a major tournament

I'm starting to really dislike how tournament results are being taken as the be-all and end-all of balance.

I don't really care how the new Marine codex is going to fare in an Imperial Soup/Alaitoc flier spam/insert-meta-list-here context, I'm more concerned that the casual games I play with my friends, using non-meta lists, are going to be curbstomps for our resident Marine players.

Or they just tone down their lists a tad, it's not like they haven't spent the last year getting their own teeth kicked in.

Ice_can wrote:

catbarf wrote:

 Stux wrote:
We're not going to know for sure until we get a major tournament

I'm starting to really dislike how tournament results are being taken as the be-all and end-all of balance.

I don't really care how the new Marine codex is going to fare in an Imperial Soup/Alaitoc flier spam/insert-meta-list-here context, I'm more concerned that the casual games I play with my friends, using non-meta lists, are going to be curbstomps for our resident Marine players.

Or they just tone down their lists a tad, it's not like they haven't spent the last year getting their own teeth kicked in.

Agreed. with the limitations in place for the über doctrines that will lead to a mono marine army. And it is still a marine army, pack some plasma guns and some Power weapons and you still can rain easily somewhat on their parade.
Altough i am not a fan of the new t1 ddeepstrike droppods. It will just lead to frontloading marine armies.

But alas what do i know .-.

Confirmed on a larger screen (baring resolution issues):

Intercessor Autobolters up to Assault 3.
Addition of Hand Flamer to Intercessor Serg options.
Aggressors at W3.
Centurions at W4.
Inceptors at W3.
Inceptor Bolt Carbide option on the Eliminator serg is 24" assault 1 s4 ap 1 d2.
LR Redeemer Flamestorm Cannons jumped to 12"
The Assault Bolter appears to have dropped in points. Might be an 8.
The Hurricane Bolter is still 10 sodding points.
Autobolter looks to still be 1 point.
Pretty sure Tac marines did actually drop to 12.

And most of the Indominus Crusade detachment looks to have just been added to the base strats.

Wayniac wrote:
Apparently the doctrines need all models in the army to have angels of death to get.

SOUP'S OFF THE MENU!

Also excellent if true.

I hope people aren't yanking my chain, because I'm getting optimistic again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

The Newman wrote:


And most of the Indominus Crusade detachment looks to have just been added to the base strats.

Ahh, that's why there are so many strats.

It only accounts for about four of them. There's some other new stuff in there too. You can change doctrine directions backward for a cp and vehicles with PotMS can now make an attack or guarantee an explosion when destroyed for example.

Edit: iirc the chapter-specific strats were either not in the book or were converted into generic strats.

Ice_can wrote:
Or they just tone down their lists a tad, it's not like they haven't spent the last year getting their own teeth kicked in.

One of them runs an all-Primaris army heavy on Intercessors, with some Hellblasters and a Redemptor for support. In our local 'meta' he's been doing fine ever since Bolter Discipline was introduced, going up against Bad Moons Orks, Death Guard, Chaos Marines, mechanized Tau, and Death Korps. None of us play tournament lists so it's fine.

What's he supposed to do? Drop half the army and run mini-marines instead? It's not like he's running a min-max build to begin with.

This is my problem with taking tournament results as gospel; maybe Marines will finally be on competitive footing in a tournament environment, but if it means Marines are only balanced if you're fighting them with the one or two viable competitive builds that each codex has to offer, that's not very satisfying for casual play.

The Newman wrote:

Addition of Hand Flamer to Intercessor Serg options.

How is that worded? Can he actually have it along with his other gear?

catbarf wrote:

 Stux wrote:
We're not going to know for sure until we get a major tournament

I'm starting to really dislike how tournament results are being taken as the be-all and end-all of balance.

I don't really care how the new Marine codex is going to fare in an Imperial Soup/Alaitoc flier spam/insert-meta-list-here context, I'm more concerned that the casual games I play with my friends, using non-meta lists, are going to be curbstomps for our resident Marine players.

Thats where data is collected. For better or for worse.

 Crimson wrote:

The Newman wrote:

Addition of Hand Flamer to Intercessor Serg options.

How is that worded? Can he actually have it along with his other gear?

I'm honestly not sure, I just noted that it had an entry in the weapon profiles for the unit. Edit: Just to make things stranger, so far as I know nobody else in the current codex can even take a Hand Flamer. Wonder if that got added to the general armory or if it's just Intercessors.

catbarf wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Or they just tone down their lists a tad, it's not like they haven't spent the last year getting their own teeth kicked in.

One of them runs an all-Primaris army heavy on Intercessors, with some Hellblasters and a Redemptor for support. In our local 'meta' he's been doing fine ever since Bolter Discipline was introduced, going up against Bad Moons Orks, Death Guard, Chaos Marines, mechanized Tau, and Death Korps. None of us play tournament lists so it's fine.

What's he supposed to do? Drop half the army and run mini-marines instead? It's not like he's running a min-max build to begin with.

This is my problem with taking tournament results as gospel; maybe Marines will finally be on competitive footing in a tournament environment, but if it means Marines are only balanced if you're fighting them with the one or two viable competitive builds that each codex has to offer, that's not very satisfying for casual play.

With no soup, no Gman, no raven guard -1 and no relic banner i can still see marines being manageable.
They will become like AM, where the fluffy lists will also be competitive lists, but nothing really OP.

The Newman wrote:
It only accounts for about four of them. There's some other new stuff in there too. You can change doctrine directions backward for a cp and vehicles with PotMS can now make an attack or guarantee an explosion when destroyed for example.

Edit: iirc the chapter-specific strats were either not in the book or were converted into generic strats.

Are you sure on that interpretation of the doctrines strategum?

Ice_can wrote:

The Newman wrote:
It only accounts for about four of them. There's some other new stuff in there too. You can change doctrine directions backward for a cp and vehicles with PotMS can now make an attack or guarantee an explosion when destroyed for example.

Edit: iirc the chapter-specific strats were either not in the book or were converted into generic strats.

Are you sure on that interpretation of the doctrines strategum?

That's the entire purpose of those stratagems, from what I can tell - moving back to the previous doctrine.

Not changing direction though, if that's what you meant

Spoletta wrote:

catbarf wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Or they just tone down their lists a tad, it's not like they haven't spent the last year getting their own teeth kicked in.

One of them runs an all-Primaris army heavy on Intercessors, with some Hellblasters and a Redemptor for support. In our local 'meta' he's been doing fine ever since Bolter Discipline was introduced, going up against Bad Moons Orks, Death Guard, Chaos Marines, mechanized Tau, and Death Korps. None of us play tournament lists so it's fine.

What's he supposed to do? Drop half the army and run mini-marines instead? It's not like he's running a min-max build to begin with.

This is my problem with taking tournament results as gospel; maybe Marines will finally be on competitive footing in a tournament environment, but if it means Marines are only balanced if you're fighting them with the one or two viable competitive builds that each codex has to offer, that's not very satisfying for casual play.

With no soup, no Gman, no raven guard -1 and no relic banner i can still see marines being manageable.
They will become like AM, where the fluffy lists will also be competitive lists, but nothing really OP.

The Banner is still there, but the range is increased rather than the ability going off on a 3+. It's kinda like a sidegrade or a slight nerf.

nekooni wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

The Newman wrote:
It only accounts for about four of them. There's some other new stuff in there too. You can change doctrine directions backward for a cp and vehicles with PotMS can now make an attack or guarantee an explosion when destroyed for example.

Edit: iirc the chapter-specific strats were either not in the book or were converted into generic strats.

Are you sure on that interpretation of the doctrines strategum?

That's the entire purpose of those stratagems, from what I can tell - moving back to the previous doctrine.

Not changing direction though, if that's what you meant

I thought it was just to allow you to jump forward so the assult chapter's were not totally boned untill turn 3

Is there any news on apothecaries? I'm wondering if they got a buff or anything

 fraser1191 wrote:
Is there any news on apothecaries? I'm wondering if they got a buff or anything

I heard somewhere that they were 30 points now. I can't really tell on the videos I've seen and I can't remember who said it so take that with a grain of salt. At 30 points I think I'll always take one.