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 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
Is there any news on apothecaries? I'm wondering if they got a buff or anything

I heard somewhere that they were 30 points now. I can't really tell on the videos I've seen and I can't remember who said it so take that with a grain of salt. At 30 points I think I'll always take one.

Oh wow that huge! If they're still the same mechanically that's fine at that price point. I was hoping they'd revive on a 3 but if they're getting a big price drop I'll take it!

The price drop more than makes up for the 4+ to revive. They're a good pick to support Centurions and Aggressors now for sure.

Any news on the evolution of the fluff with these three codexes ? I heard the supplement are full of it.

product description for the new codex mentions 7 Litanies of Battle - someone pls explain what those are?

vetern intercessors is now a core stratigium, however if your intercessor unit consists of 6 or more intercessors it's now 2 CPs


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Phobosftw wrote:
product description for the new codex mentions 7 Litanies of Battle - someone pls explain what those are?

remember the prayers dark apostles got? they're the loyalist equviivilant

Hm, on second thought +2" to charges is much less awesome when you can't Deep Strike the Chaplain the same turn to benefit from it. Bleh.

Could you drive him up in the new tank? (assuming all the odd transport restrictions would allow it. )

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The price drop more than makes up for the 4+ to revive. They're a good pick to support Centurions and Aggressors now for sure.

100% now I just wish the impulsor could hold 3 aggressors and an apothecary. I love my aggressors and I can't wait to jam them in one

 fraser1191 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The price drop more than makes up for the 4+ to revive. They're a good pick to support Centurions and Aggressors now for sure.

100% now I just wish the impulsor could hold 3 aggressors and an apothecary. I love my aggressors and I can't wait to jam them in one

well it can hold an apocathory it can't cary any gravis period.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Hm, on second thought +2" to charges is much less awesome when you can't Deep Strike the Chaplain the same turn to benefit from it. Bleh.

Chaplains still have jump packs right? If the Litany has to be declared at the beginning of the battle round, but affects units within 6" that's still a 30+2d6 range for the + 2 charge. Which with good position can cover most of the board.

30" ? How do you get 30 ?

 godardc wrote:
30" ? How do you get 30 ?

Turn 1 12" move + d6 advance
Turn 2 12" move + d6 advance + 6 inch aura range. Could've misheard the rules though

Ice_can wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The price drop more than makes up for the 4+ to revive. They're a good pick to support Centurions and Aggressors now for sure.

100% now I just wish the impulsor could hold 3 aggressors and an apothecary. I love my aggressors and I can't wait to jam them in one

well it can hold an apocathory it can't cary any gravis period.

Wait...aggressors cant use the new transport?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The price drop more than makes up for the 4+ to revive. They're a good pick to support Centurions and Aggressors now for sure.

100% now I just wish the impulsor could hold 3 aggressors and an apothecary. I love my aggressors and I can't wait to jam them in one

well it can hold an apocathory it can't cary any gravis period.

Wait...aggressors cant use the new transport?

Really? I hope that's not true

 fraser1191 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The price drop more than makes up for the 4+ to revive. They're a good pick to support Centurions and Aggressors now for sure.

100% now I just wish the impulsor could hold 3 aggressors and an apothecary. I love my aggressors and I can't wait to jam them in one

well it can hold an apocathory it can't cary any gravis period.

Wait...aggressors cant use the new transport?

Really? I hope that's not true

It is true.

Impulsor can't carry Gravis or Jump Pack units.

Just all other Primaris Infantry.

 fraser1191 wrote:


Really? I hope that's not true

I kind of do.

It makes sense as rhinos cant carry terminators. Aggressors have to get in repulsors.

With the buffs aggressors were one of the things that will be really strong. The impulse would have made it super easy to deliver them.

catbarf wrote:

 Stux wrote:
We're not going to know for sure until we get a major tournament

I'm starting to really dislike how tournament results are being taken as the be-all and end-all of balance.

I don't really care how the new Marine codex is going to fare in an Imperial Soup/Alaitoc flier spam/insert-meta-list-here context, I'm more concerned that the casual games I play with my friends, using non-meta lists, are going to be curbstomps for our resident Marine players.

This, very very very much this.

Powergamermeta blows don-key balls. GW obviously doesnt care about balance(their track record speaks volumes)most likely due to how they play. I don't care about balance, war isnt fair, why should a wargame be? My "crappy" marines have been doing just fine against almost everything short of fuh-que superspam lists prior to the new rules. But even then, I'm not getting tabled and frustrating my opponent is about tied for being fun with winning in turn 7.

Lemondish wrote:


It is true.

Impulsor can't carry Gravis or Jump Pack units.

Just all other Primaris Infantry.

Perfect. GW did an ace job on this release if all these other rumors are true.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Racerguy180 wrote:

catbarf wrote:

 Stux wrote:
We're not going to know for sure until we get a major tournament

I'm starting to really dislike how tournament results are being taken as the be-all and end-all of balance.

I don't really care how the new Marine codex is going to fare in an Imperial Soup/Alaitoc flier spam/insert-meta-list-here context, I'm more concerned that the casual games I play with my friends, using non-meta lists, are going to be curbstomps for our resident Marine players.

This, very very very much this.

Powergamermeta blows don-key balls. GW obviously doesnt care about balance(their track record speaks volumes)most likely due to how they play. I don't care about balance, war isnt fair, why should a wargame be? My "crappy" marines have been doing just fine against almost everything short of fuh-que superspam lists prior to the new rules. But even then, I'm not getting tabled and frustrating my opponent is about tied for being fun with winning in turn 7.

Just because your opponents are bad doesn't mean GW shouldn't balance the game.

looking over this, the marine 'dex IS powerful, but it's also got limiters, doctrines for example require a pure force, so a space marine army using doctrines is going to be fighting without knight support, without the loyal 32 supplying a CP battery (and lemme tell you, marine armies are going to be CP thirsty) this.. might actually be good. we'll have to see

BrianDavion wrote:
looking over this, the marine 'dex IS powerful, but it's also got limiters, doctrines for example require a pure force, so a space marine army using doctrines is going to be fighting without knight support, without the loyal 32 supplying a CP battery (and lemme tell you, marine armies are going to be CP thirsty) this.. might actually be good. we'll have to see

Exactly they are going to want pure for all the bonuses, something a lot of (the ones I've discussed this with) people have wanted since this soupy nonce started at the start of 8th.
I think a marine army from the bat reps and codex previews I have seen will be either struggling for CP and board presence with heavyweight units or going all in on strategums etc to carry a double battalion list.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Lemondish wrote:


It is true.

Impulsor can't carry Gravis or Jump Pack units.

Just all other Primaris Infantry.

Perfect. GW did an ace job on this release if all these other rumors are true.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Racerguy180 wrote:

catbarf wrote:

 Stux wrote:
We're not going to know for sure until we get a major tournament

I'm starting to really dislike how tournament results are being taken as the be-all and end-all of balance.

I don't really care how the new Marine codex is going to fare in an Imperial Soup/Alaitoc flier spam/insert-meta-list-here context, I'm more concerned that the casual games I play with my friends, using non-meta lists, are going to be curbstomps for our resident Marine players.

This, very very very much this.

Powergamermeta blows don-key balls. GW obviously doesnt care about balance(their track record speaks volumes)most likely due to how they play. I don't care about balance, war isnt fair, why should a wargame be? My "crappy" marines have been doing just fine against almost everything short of fuh-que superspam lists prior to the new rules. But even then, I'm not getting tabled and frustrating my opponent is about tied for being fun with winning in turn 7.

Just because your opponents are bad doesn't mean GW shouldn't balance the game.

Ding ding we have a winner! I don't care if your opponents bring crap lists. What about those of us that don't want to play opponents that intentionally handicap their lists? I want my opponents to bring their best list and I want to do the same. The previous codex did not give me that.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:


Really? I hope that's not true

I kind of do.

It makes sense as rhinos cant carry terminators. Aggressors have to get in repulsors.

With the buffs aggressors were one of the things that will be really strong. The impulse would have made it super easy to deliver them.

Oh well I guess I'll load up my loyal hellblasters and I suppose a Lt.

Do marines still have a stratagem similar to the old scions of Guilliman so I can get rerolls?

 fraser1191 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:


Really? I hope that's not true

I kind of do.

It makes sense as rhinos cant carry terminators. Aggressors have to get in repulsors.

With the buffs aggressors were one of the things that will be really strong. The impulse would have made it super easy to deliver them.

Oh well I guess I'll load up my loyal hellblasters and I suppose a Lt.

Do marines still have a stratagem similar to the old scions of Guilliman so I can get rerolls?

I belvie ultramariens do in their supplement

Spectral Ceramite wrote:
Centurion W4 and Aggressors W3, and big hoorahhhh to norm marines making it. A lot of tactics now to all include vehicles.

If norm marines didn't make it than we all would go primaris, just go 32's with higher base size and Deathwatch, but you made it...) (I still am all now DW)

Good review at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-aq0Uv3r4E

Oooh, my Aggressors just got a new leash on life Plonk 3 of them in a 4++ Impulsor and I have a cheap "Terminator V2" package without needing to break my bank on a Repulsor.

Anyhow, I really like the marine buffs and stuff like Aggressors going to W3, makes them feel properly elite and tough. If this makes them overpowered there's a very easy solution, raise their points costs. Because while there are a lot of buffs I see nothing that's innately so broken that it's unbalanceable (Well, maybe in combination with Guilliman but that's because his aura is the problem and not these buffs).

agressors can't ride in impulsors. :(

Pandabeer wrote:

Spectral Ceramite wrote:
Centurion W4 and Aggressors W3, and big hoorahhhh to norm marines making it. A lot of tactics now to all include vehicles.

If norm marines didn't make it than we all would go primaris, just go 32's with higher base size and Deathwatch, but you made it...) (I still am all now DW)

Good review at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-aq0Uv3r4E

Oooh, my Aggressors just got a new leash on life Plonk 3 of them in a 4++ Impulsor and I have a cheap "Terminator V2" package without needing to break my bank on a Repulsor.

Anyhow, I really like the marine buffs and stuff like Aggressors going to W3, makes them feel properly elite and tough. If this makes them overpowered there's a very easy solution, raise their points costs. Because while there are a lot of buffs I see nothing that's innately so broken that it's unbalanceable (Well, maybe in combination with Guilliman but that's because his aura is the problem and not these buffs).

No aggressors in impulsors. Impulsor = rhino. Gravis = terminator.

Pandabeer wrote:

Spectral Ceramite wrote:
Centurion W4 and Aggressors W3, and big hoorahhhh to norm marines making it. A lot of tactics now to all include vehicles.

If norm marines didn't make it than we all would go primaris, just go 32's with higher base size and Deathwatch, but you made it...) (I still am all now DW)

Good review at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-aq0Uv3r4E

Oooh, my Aggressors just got a new leash on life Plonk 3 of them in a 4++ Impulsor and I have a cheap "Terminator V2" package without needing to break my bank on a Repulsor.

sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but we've already seen that the Impulsor doesn't carry JUMP or Gravis models. So Aggressors will still need a Repulsor of footslog

-

Clearly need a new thread so people can see the impulsor can't carry aggressors

Daedalus81 wrote:

Lemondish wrote:


It is true.

Impulsor can't carry Gravis or Jump Pack units.

Just all other Primaris Infantry.

Perfect. GW did an ace job on this release if all these other rumors are true.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Racerguy180 wrote:

catbarf wrote:

 Stux wrote:
We're not going to know for sure until we get a major tournament

I'm starting to really dislike how tournament results are being taken as the be-all and end-all of balance.

I don't really care how the new Marine codex is going to fare in an Imperial Soup/Alaitoc flier spam/insert-meta-list-here context, I'm more concerned that the casual games I play with my friends, using non-meta lists, are going to be curbstomps for our resident Marine players.

This, very very very much this.

Powergamermeta blows don-key balls. GW obviously doesnt care about balance(their track record speaks volumes)most likely due to how they play. I don't care about balance, war isnt fair, why should a wargame be? My "crappy" marines have been doing just fine against almost everything short of fuh-que superspam lists prior to the new rules. But even then, I'm not getting tabled and frustrating my opponent is about tied for being fun with winning in turn 7.

Just because your opponents are bad doesn't mean GW shouldn't balance the game.

umm, okay? Nobody said my opponents were bad, Its just if I'm playing one of the many tourney only players in my local, I play to specifically not win, just to make it as difficult for them to win how they want to. Normally I play relaxed fluffy fun lists and most of my opponents play likewise so I prefer to play with them. but I will not turn down a game due to not liking my opponent/list/style of play. that just screams pussyway out.

Racerguy180 wrote:


umm, okay? Nobody said my opponents were bad, Its just if I'm playing one of the many tourney only players in my local, I play to specifically not win, just to make it as difficult for them to win how they want to. Normally I play relaxed fluffy fun lists and most of my opponents play likewise so I prefer to play with them. but I will not turn down a game due to not liking my opponent/list/style of play. that just screams pussyway out.

You said GW doesn't care about balance. You couched in sentiment against tournament results ("Powergamermeta blows don-key balls" / "most likely due to how they play") and general distaste towards balance in general ("I don't care about balance"), which doesn't make sense the more I read it.

The anecdotes you provide do not represent the wider community. Tournaments provide us a picture into how units perform on the table and results in sound, usable data.

If you want to play relaxed fluffy lists then balance doesn't really matter. Regardless, GW potentially took a step towards being able to build armies without being forced into needing knights or soup. It doesn't matter how you play, because that's good for everyone.