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BrianDavion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Maybe the book is a lie. Its hard for me to take anything seriously when nothing makes sense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

HoundsofDemos wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Assuming the hordes arent a myth. Without scientific principles in play, i wouldnt believe anything the imperium thinks it knows.

Why would they be a myth, there is literally an entire novel about the war in the webway and what is waiting at the gates should the wards fail. I really don't get why you bother with a setting that you fundamentally seem to dislike almost every aspect of.

I do basically hate almost all of GWs bad fanfic.

But what you DO like is trolling DakkaDakka

this X1000000000.

Maybe it would take terra falling for martel to actually like the setting again. At this point maybe gogoboomboom is what they really need.

It would at least be novel. Kinda. For them.

40k used to be satire. Once they started playing it straight, it became stupid and offensive.

Eh. Martel is not wrong.

Aside from ADB, GW do not employ/contract a single competent writer.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Eh. Martel is not wrong.

Aside from ADB, GW do not employ/contract a single competent writer.

I don't completely disagree but it's not an excuse to constantly troll people like a child.

I do find the Imperium hate amusing - considering that it is, and always has been, the crux of the setting (Although, I will grant, not the entire setting. Without the Imperium, no other faction has the same relevance. The setting has often been a commentary on the human condition, and how it can become twisted in the name of ideals. The other factions are there simply to present mirrors of what humanity could be - but none are perfect in themselves. So while you may hate GW for starting to take the subtle commentary and satire as a 'truth' of the setting, it would be foolish to do away with the Imperium as a whole. Without it, 40k would not be 40k.

That said, the standard of writing for BL does appear to becoming more and more generic. X Marines fight X Xenos or X Chaos and X Imperium Force wins. It's no longer a commentary on the waxing and waning fortunes of humanity, not is it a grand tale of dystopian decline - it has now just become a strange hybrid of forced stagnation despite overwhelming victory at every turn. Which in some ways is why I welcome the change up (But hate the Imdomitus Crusade for it's Deus et Machina 'reuniting' of the Dark Imperium).

I don't rate ADB as high as I once did. He's certainly one of the better authors, but his incessant twisting of the Emperor into a faceless, conniving monster, rips away a core part of 40k, for me at least. The point of the Emperor is that he was a beloved, awe-inspiring leader that was nigh on perfect - providing sharp contrast to the utter ruin to which that dream of humanity has fallen. By twisting him to this fallible, manipulative and uncaring tyrant, it basically wipes away the distinction between 30k and 40k, and takes some of the mystical nostalgia of halcyon days past that any mention of the Great Crusade had in 40k novels. There is no distinction anymore, other than through some Astartes wargear. Personally, I'd rather the fallibility, pettyness and manipulation were left to the Primarchs, which have always been presented as flawed pieces of the Emperor, doomed to destroy the father's work

pm713 wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Eh. Martel is not wrong.

Aside from ADB, GW do not employ/contract a single competent writer.

I don't completely disagree but it's not an excuse to constantly troll people like a child.

Only occasionally, not constantly. The final straw was the BA surviving a quadrillion bugs.

To clarify, I said ADB was "competent".

I also have no prior knowledge of this Martel character.

I stroll into background to occasionally express displeasure. I mostly post about the godawful representation of marines on tabletop. So not here.

Blood Angels are the best marines ever. Top tier with multiple builds. Best they’ve ever been!

Not appropriate for the background section.

Excommunicatus wrote:Eh. Martel is not wrong.

Aside from ADB, GW do not employ/contract a single competent writer.

Abnett? Haley?

Martel732 wrote:Not appropriate for the background section.

Funny, I seem to remember telling you that, when you were complaining about how Marines couldn't be very good in fluff if their rules were so bad.

I’m just poking the bear, Martel.

But, to loop this back on topic, Dante is supposed to be at the final defence of the Emperor, or something, so until he’s headed to Terra we’re in the clear.

Well, doesn't that imply that the Imperium - at least in its present form - is coming to an end pretty soon, relatively-speaking?

I know that Dante is 40K's Methuselah, but he can't be expected to go on much longer. They constantly reference how unusual it is for a Marine to live that long.

I’m just saying that in “our world”, until the writers give indication that Dante is headed to Terra, we as the audience needn’t fear the end of the Imperium as being imminent.

Right, I follow that. I'm of the opinion that GW won't let the Imperium fall, even though the fall of the Imperium is inevitable.

This Dante thing is new information to me, though, and the in-universe implications are huge.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Excommunicatus wrote:Eh. Martel is not wrong.

Aside from ADB, GW do not employ/contract a single competent writer.

Abnett? Haley?

With you there. Titanicus hooked me into Abnett's stuff, big fan

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Right, I follow that. I'm of the opinion that GW won't let the Imperium fall, even though the fall of the Imperium is inevitable.

This Dante thing is new information to me, though, and the in-universe implications are huge.

Dante has long had a vision of fighting his last duel before the emperor's throne.. of course this could be subverted easily eneugh

For what it’s worth, I think I read it in the 5th/6th edition BA codex. He has a recurring vision similar to Sanguinus’ last battle with Horus. My memory for the details is blurry.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Well, doesn't that imply that the Imperium - at least in its present form - is coming to an end pretty soon, relatively-speaking?

I know that Dante is 40K's Methuselah, but he can't be expected to go on much longer. They constantly reference how unusual it is for a Marine to live that long.

It's been like that for ages. The setting has been 2 seconds from midnight for ages. It's why it's so weird now.

Don't forget that for half of the imperium Terra has essentially already fallen. They can no longer see the Emperor's light.

nareik wrote:
Don't forget that for half of the imperium Terra has essentially already fallen. They can no longer see the Emperor's light.

and it's bad over in Imperium Nihlus the evidance strongly suggests that the IoM has essentially collapsed with small sector wide hold outs which sounds more and more like a great concept for an army TBH

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Eh. Martel is not wrong.

Aside from ADB, GW do not employ/contract a single competent writer.

The book in question is Master of Mankind, written by ADB.

If you don't like the fluff, fair enough. You are entitled to your opinion. But why come here to complain about it when other people are having constructive discussions?

I don't like sushi but I don't go into sushi restaurants to complain about it.

I think it's an a bit hyperbolic to say GW has no good writers on it's pay role. Abnet, Mcneil, and Sandy Mitchell have put out solid work and James Swallow's work on the sisters of battle is also among my favorite.

For every crappy novel that GW puts out, there are gems.

 Karhedron wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Eh. Martel is not wrong.

Aside from ADB, GW do not employ/contract a single competent writer.

The book in question is Master of Mankind, written by ADB.

If you don't like the fluff, fair enough. You are entitled to your opinion. But why come here to complain about it when other people are having constructive discussions?

I don't like sushi but I don't go into sushi restaurants to complain about it.

Coolbeans.

Maybe you might mention it if someone else ordered sushi and/or the topic of discussion was, you know, sushi.

 Excommunicatus wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Eh. Martel is not wrong.

Aside from ADB, GW do not employ/contract a single competent writer.

The book in question is Master of Mankind, written by ADB.

If you don't like the fluff, fair enough. You are entitled to your opinion. But why come here to complain about it when other people are having constructive discussions?

I don't like sushi but I don't go into sushi restaurants to complain about it.

Coolbeans.

Maybe you might mention it if someone else ordered sushi and/or the topic of discussion was, you know, sushi.

So if someone mentions food around you you go out of your way to tell them how they're wrong and that their choice of food is awful?

MAYBE you MIGHT.

Emphasis added.

I think if everytime someone mentioned or ordered sushi you spent the next hour ranting about how you hated it you'd get few invites to dinner very very fast

 Warpig1815 wrote:


As for Terra - I think the Emperor as an undead is still too central to the essence of 40k lore for GW to risk Terra falling, for now. Any attempt to raise him, kill him, or transform him would be too risky in the wake of Guilliman's revival - being seen as too cheesy or Deus et Machina (Literally ) at the moment. Perhaps at some point, but I don't think we'll see any disturbance to the Golden Throne just yet.

That's not what Deus ex Machina means.

Governor Flax Is already in terra, he is GSC Magus I believe. Destruction of the Cryptus cause this to transfer Governor Flax to terra.

He is the Spawn of Cryptus brother.

BrianDavion wrote:
I think if everytime someone mentioned or ordered sushi you spent the next hour ranting about how you hated it you'd get few invites to dinner very very fast

Of course.

It's illustrative of how far you've had to stretch to make my behaviour seem unreasonable though, isn't it? I haven't burst through a wall to randomly interject my opinion that sushi sucks into a discussion on traffic-systems. The thread topic is sushi. You're all talking about sushi. I haven't said sushi sucks and then just banged on and on about it.

But since you've made me engage the subject again, it isn't at all hyperbolic. GW's fiction is a literary Bob Ross; the whole looks quite good, from a distance, if you kinda squint, but if you get up close and really look at it, it's just a terrible, terrible, muddy mess. Good forests, gakky trees.

Basically every story boils down to "because Spehss Mahreens", "because Chaos" or "a Sorceror/Daemon/Wizard/Warp-Rip did it".