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A few of the cards are normally used up with ground assets.....

12 Nightwing and 7 Phoenix cards sound about right, that's about 2 boxes of each

I don't like the Eldar flyers. I'd buy a box of Hemlocks, though. Prettiest GW airplane.

Chopstick wrote:
12 Nightwing and 7 Phoenix cards sound about right, that's about 2 boxes of each

I think previously the cards have come with enough for the starter set + 1 box of each. So that’d be 9 Nightwings and 6 Phoenixes.

So probably enough space left for a couple of Vampires.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Binabik15 wrote:
I don't like the Eldar flyers. I'd buy a box of Hemlocks, though. Prettiest GW airplane.

I’m the opposite, I much prefer the Nightwing and Phoenix from FW to the plastic kit GW released.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Binabik15 wrote:
I don't like the Eldar flyers. I'd buy a box of Hemlocks, though. Prettiest GW airplane.

I’m the opposite, I much prefer the Nightwing and Phoenix from FW to the plastic kit GW released.

Agree, the 40k Eldar fliers look like pants. These are very true to the Eldar fliers released back in Epic 40,000 so they get a massive approval.

Tempted to order both this set and the first one shame the one with Tau is no longer available.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Chopstick wrote:
12 Nightwing and 7 Phoenix cards sound about right, that's about 2 boxes of each

I think previously the cards have come with enough for the starter set + 1 box of each. So that’d be 9 Nightwings and 6 Phoenixes.

So probably enough space left for a couple of Vampires.

That’s the most likely, imo. Don‘t have the ork set at hand, but it’s listed:

19 Ork Aircraft cards that are ideal references for use in-game for your Dakka Jets, Fighta Bommers, Eavy Bommers and Grot Bommers. Also includes the 'Vulture' and 'Big Burna' reference cards.

So, two fewer cards but the fighta bommer comes with four per pack (and only half a pack in the starter). It included two each of the bigger bommer variants which I think we‘ll see for eldar as well.

It’s going to be out soon enough.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

The fixed guns on the Marauder are for precision strafing attacks, not air-to-air dogfighting, hence why it used to be a ground attack weapon.

Clearly not heard of the Warthog stomp! Which while it sounds impressive was just an A-10 hoping an enemy plane would cross in front of its gun...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 stonehorse wrote:
Agree, the 40k Eldar fliers look like pants. These are very true to the Eldar fliers released back in Epic 40,000 so they get a massive approval.

Tempted to order both this set and the first one shame the one with Tau is no longer available.

Virtually al the 40k fliers look awful I can only assume it is manufacturing constraints that limit what can be done. (Well I love the Ork one, but that's basically a larger cuter Epic one.) Still some good conversions out there, I like the one that uses Drop Pod parts to make a 'stealth' flyer. Shame GW hates conversions now for fear 3rd parties will sell them.

I have the cards in hand, I can confirm they do not contain any unannounced aircraft

The_Real_Chris wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

The fixed guns on the Marauder are for precision strafing attacks, not air-to-air dogfighting, hence why it used to be a ground attack weapon.

Clearly not heard of the Warthog stomp! Which while it sounds impressive was just an A-10 hoping an enemy plane would cross in front of its gun...

I don't think the A10 has ever shot down an enemy fighter? It's only shot down a chopper or two. And as impressive as the A10's gun might be, in an air-to-air fight the Vulcan mounted on fighter jets has a higher rate of fire.

But the A10 is actually a surprisingly agile aircraft. It can't pull the G's of a dedicated fighter jet, but at low speeds it has a good turn rate and agility not dissimilar to WW2 fighters.

The idea of the fixed guns on the Marauder bomber are more reminisce of a B25 or B26, which had cheek mounted guns for strafing attacks (which from my understanding were mostly used to take out AA installations and harass shipping). You certainly wouldn't want to go nose to nose with a B25, but it was sluggish enough in the air that it had no hope of shooting down an enemy fighter even if it could get them in a frontal 120° arc. I don't know if the B25 or B26 ever got air-to-air kills with their fixed guns, there was so many combat situations back then it wouldn't surprise me if it did happen time to time, but I don't think they set out to achieve that.

I think AI would benefit from to-hit modifiers based on the relative manoeuvrability of aircraft, that would really make sense given the real challenge of getting guns on target even after you might have already gotten behind an enemy plane. Failing that, yeah, I think the Marauder Destroyer guns should probably go back to being "ground attack" to stop it acting as a durable heavy fighter instead of a bomber/CAS aircraft.

I think he was being sarcastic about it.

The main problem with the Warthog is its biggest bonus...GAU-8 30MM.

Yes, it has impressive agility at low speeds and is incredibly resilient, but that cannon can stop the forward momentum in mid air. Which, if you don't understand lift:drag means that the gun can slow the plane down to below its stall speed. Which is why when they fire the main cannon it is done so with a 30-45deg declination.

Yeah, no, that’s a myth; the engines are providing thousands of pounds of thrust, plus the momentum of the aircraft travelling at several hundred miles an hour, the recoil is nowhere near that much, even from that monster cannon.

The origin of the myth is a distortion/misunderstanding of a real issue; firing the cannon produces a large cloud of smoke, which can stall the engines if it gets sucked in. It effectively deprives the engines of oxygen and or mucks up the intake temperatures (gas turbines do not like hot gas).

The dive is just for accurate aiming and not hitting the ground.

Still, ‘hog go BRRRT! Which reminds me, I don’t think I picked up any Avengers for AI yet.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I have the cards in hand, I can confirm they do not contain any unannounced aircraft

That is a real pitty :(

chaos0xomega wrote:
I have the cards in hand, I can confirm they do not contain any unannounced aircraft

What about the ground assets?

Does it look like there are unique ones coming from FW or was GW cryptically referring to our ability to buy more Ork/Guard emplacements...

It says on the store desciption : 4 cards for Pulsar platform and Night Spinner platform.

Also the card packs are back for preorder it seems.

Needless to say people should keep their expectation grounded to reality and don't expect a surprised Fire storm or anything other than what said in the store description.

Stealth ground defences release!

Not bad, not mindblowing, but are perfectly fine.

I like those ground assets.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I have the cards in hand, I can confirm they do not contain any unannounced aircraft

I don’t like that. Who needs 12 nightwings in a single list?

That's actually much more detail than the previous release, the "base" have unique element and not different flavors of dog bowls.

Really digging those ground defences. Particularly the infeasibly large ammo rack hopper mag things for the Space Marines.

Those Eldar ground units are gorgeous, shame that they'll no doubt sell out fast and be listed on ebay at extortionate prices.

Just noticed that Wrath of Angels rule book has 38 pages, where as the Wings of Vengeance rulebook had 36 pages.

Wonder what they have added?

 stonehorse wrote:
Those Eldar ground units are gorgeous, shame that they'll no doubt sell out fast and be listed on ebay at extortionate prices.

Just noticed that Wrath of Angels rule book has 38 pages, where as the Wings of Vengeance rulebook had 36 pages.

Wonder what they have added?

What was the Skies of Fire one? There were rules added there for low altitude flight and the rolling area of engagement, but I don't remember if that was included in the Skies of Fire book or only the campaign book.

The ground assets look nice, but damned those FW prices are putting me off a bit.

Not sure as I missed out on buying the Skies of Fire box.

I suspect it might be those things you mentioned.

Didn't realise that those are from Forgeworld, yeah those are quite the penny.

Thinking forward to future releases, only Chaos are left from the games first edition, Hell blade and Hell talon if I recall correctly. Wonder what faction will be in the next box set with them?

Once they have released all the factions it would be great if they put everything into one book. I think theyndid that with Necromunder, released small books for the houses as they released the models, then did a full book.

I suspect that GW are reluctant to release rules for models they haven't released yet. So this is why we are getting a Drip feed release schedule. Annoying , but at least AI isn't a game system that is flooded with releases.

 stonehorse wrote:
I suspect that GW are reluctant to release rules for models they haven't released yet. So this is why we are getting a Drip feed release schedule. Annoying , but at least AI isn't a game system that is flooded with releases.

There does seem to be, well, corporate paranoia (for want of a better word) from GW lately. At least in my view. It's surprising that the Eldar have only got 2 aircraft that we know about. Either they're slowing down AI releases, switching more over to resin with a "surprise!" factor or really tightening things up with releases.

"Aircraft and Aces – Asuryani Cards" are back on pre-order (UK site), after going off last week.

It looks like I'll be joining in after all.

 zedmeister wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:
I suspect that GW are reluctant to release rules for models they haven't released yet. So this is why we are getting a Drip feed release schedule. Annoying , but at least AI isn't a game system that is flooded with releases.

There does seem to be, well, corporate paranoia (for want of a better word) from GW lately. At least in my view. It's surprising that the Eldar have only got 2 aircraft that we know about. Either they're slowing down AI releases, switching more over to resin with a "surprise!" factor or really tightening things up with releases.

The problem is likely linked to the increased ability for 3rd parties to not only produce models but also access the market through the growing reliance on internet trade. Especially now with 3D printers that market can produce multiple pre-supported stls in a month and within 2 have them in production through merchants.

In general GW is a BIG target for 3rd parties to make models for, most of the other model markets don't really contend with it to the same degree. Even in 3D printing the vast majority are either DnD or Warhammer style models with a big bias for 40K (some solid fantasy but slightly less emphasis). Heck there are some 3rd party model makers and STL designers who make "alternatives" for GW games and its their sole or majority income.


GW is well aware of this and ever since Chapterhouse have stopped putting stuff into books unless its coming out before/on or soon after the launch (ignoring the last 2 years where Corona broke a lot of that). Of course the flip side is that we no longer have models in books that never come for the tabletop. There's at least 2 whole editions of Tyranid Codex that came out with "new models" and leader models that never got made. That's what 6+ years for two editions without those models appearing. The only way was to convert or buy 3rd parties.
If anything GW's attitude then helped grow the increasing reliance/use of the 3rd party market that they now contend with today.

So there are both good and bad parts for GW's practice. One downside is that they are getting bloat heavy with addons and upgrade books. I think that at some point they are going to "break the camels back" with that approach and it will be interesting to see what they do after. It might be their long term plan is to flip over to having apps take over some of the burden; however they don't seem to have invested the right way into the digital assets to make that work. Plus GW knows that good expansion and codex books on the shelf are things their staff can put directly into customers hands as sales

 Jack Flask wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
I have the cards in hand, I can confirm they do not contain any unannounced aircraft

What about the ground assets?

Does it look like there are unique ones coming from FW or was GW cryptically referring to our ability to buy more Ork/Guard emplacements...

Well a bit late now as FW announced those this morning, but yes ground assets are there, both factions get unique ground assets - disappointed that the Aeldari didn't get a Firestorm as it was one of my favorite units in 40k proper back in 5th edition.

TheGoodGerman wrote:
I like those ground assets.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I have the cards in hand, I can confirm they do not contain any unannounced aircraft

I don’t like that. Who needs 12 nightwings in a single list?

Yeah I dunno. TBH I buy these packs more on the off chance that they include something that isn't found in a rulebook somewhere (happens more often than I would like), otherwise I don't really use the cards themselves (certainly not one per plane).

Thinking forward to future releases, only Chaos are left from the games first edition, Hell blade and Hell talon if I recall correctly. Wonder what faction will be in the next box set with them?

None. There were 5 factions planned from the beginning, and we have 5 (technically 6 if you count Imperial Guard as separate from the Imperial Navy), so the game seems to be complete and the rumors are that AI wouldn't be continued further than that due to poor sales... although arguably you could say we only have 4 factions if you say that Guard/Navy and Astartes are all "Imperium".

chaos0xomega wrote:

Thinking forward to future releases, only Chaos are left from the games first edition, Hell blade and Hell talon if I recall correctly. Wonder what faction will be in the next box set with them?

None. There were 5 factions planned from the beginning, and we have 5 (technically 6 if you count Imperial Guard as separate from the Imperial Navy), so the game seems to be complete and the rumors are that AI wouldn't be continued further than that due to poor sales... although arguably you could say we only have 4 factions if you say that Guard/Navy and Astartes are all "Imperium".

While I believe what you say to be true, do you have any confirmation?

I strongly suspect that the poor sales are from how cack handed GW handled the release of the game. That said, this new starter box will be strong seller I imagine. Eldar and Marines are very popular factions.

If the game is left in this state at least it won't feel like chasing a shifting meta, and endless sales cycle. Not sure whether I'll expand my collection beyond the starter box and the board. All depends on how much interest I can drum up in my area.

The 5 factions thing was in writing somewhere, it might have been in a white dwarf article or in a Warcom article, I forget which, but it is known/confirmed.

As for this starter - yes, I have seen more people express interest in these factions than any of the previous releases, so we'll see if more people jump in.

The poor sales and AI being scrapped was not particularly reliable as far as I remember.

We have our 5 factions we knew about and after that we basically know nothing - other than the Thunderhawk coming.