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 Yodhrin wrote:
I genuinely can't get over the fact that so many people online seem to unironically like the sidearm thing on the not-dread.

It's bizarre.

And of course now someone will do the whole "hurr durr haterz gunna hate stop ragin' grandpa you mad lul" routine, but for real, I'm not angry, just baffled. It's pure basement-tier memery. Uncut cringe.

Between that and the rugged/outdoor/sporty roll cage aesthetic,,, this may be their attempt at pandering to an American audience.

 Yodhrin wrote:
I genuinely can't get over the fact that so many people online seem to unironically like the sidearm thing on the not-dread.

It's bizarre.

And of course now someone will do the whole "hurr durr haterz gunna hate stop ragin' grandpa you mad lul" routine, but for real, I'm not angry, just baffled. It's pure basement-tier memery. Uncut cringe.

It's odd but its VERY 80s sci-fi. It fits right into the unit being a mash-up of the Aliens Loader and Robocop. It also fits with the Imperium and their rather rustic approach to technology, even though they already have tech that would let them put a gun into an arm socket. The light-dread clearly looks like a utilitarian unit that was repurposed into a front line battle unit.

Personally I really like the concept, its quirky and feels right in the Imperium. It's that same reason that the Lemon Russ exists even though modern tech would render it utterly useless on a battlefield. It's a sign that even with all these new advances, the Imperium stil hinders itself with archaic concepts and designs that they are not allowed to innovate or update etc....

My problem isn't that it's retro. Retro is fine. My problem with it is it's not grimdark.

WhiteDog wrote:
SW, BA & DA are too different from other SM to be in just a codex supplement come on...

BA and DA are Codex chapters. They're not "too different". The Woofs, I'll give you that, but the Angels of Death are no more unique (less, I'd argue) than the Black Templars.

 Crimson wrote:
What were ... the various Ork Buggies ... then?

A tragedy.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Maybe I'm just missing something but it is a bit concerning how other than the cover of the additional suppliments (Unless that's a Primaris too?) there's no seemingly sight of Space Marines in the preview stuff, it's all Primaris Marines.

Are you at all surprised? Regular Marines are done.

 Yodhrin wrote:
I genuinely can't get over the fact that so many people online seem to unironically like the sidearm thing on the not-dread.

It's bizarre.

And of course now someone will do the whole "hurr durr haterz gunna hate stop ragin' grandpa you mad lul" routine, but for real, I'm not angry, just baffled. It's pure basement-tier memery. Uncut cringe.

I can see it working on 'it is so silly that it is cool' level for some people, doesn't quite do it for me.

I'm trying to decide how to feel about the walker in general. I think I would like it more if it just was a light dreadnought with a sarcophagus instead of a pilot. These sort of piloted exo-suits are cool, but somehow it doesn't quite work as a space marine unit.

 Crimson wrote:

I can see it working on 'it is so silly that it is cool' level for some people,

Pretty much this. Same reason I like Logan's sleigh. It's utterly ridiculous, and so long as you aren't trying to take the setting seriously, that works fine.

I'm stumped by this.

1. Why are Heavy Stubbers suddenly all over Astartes vehicles. The total dregs of 40k, underhive gangers, genestealer cults, chaos uprisings, all use them because they're low rent guns, all over the place. Why would the bolter-fetish boys be suddenly fascinated by old fashioned 'machine guns'?

2. Dreadnoughts I get, the pilots are near or sometimes over the point of death, knights, sentinels I get, their pilots are mere humans in a horrific and deadly galaxy. Why would a healthy supersoldier get into a walker like this, wearing his own power armour? It's a total waste of resource not to have brother smith back on the ground, in his amazing armour, with his amazing gun, whilst some chapter serf and a bunch of servitors operate this vehicle as support.

3. I think they're out of ideas for Astartes, they're tripping over themselves to try and not created direct upgrades from standard marines to primaris so they're conjuring up units that have little use and that noone was asking for. Given how easily FW seems to come up with decent looking units for HH, I'm thinking they need to pop over there for a cuppa and a chat for some inspiration.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Given how easily FW seems to come up with decent looking units for HH,

I can't remember when was the last time this happened. A long time ago, that's for sure.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:


3. I think they're out of ideas for Astartes, they're tripping over themselves to try and not created direct upgrades from standard marines to primaris so they're conjuring up units that have little use and that noone was asking for. Given how easily FW seems to come up with decent looking units for HH, I'm thinking they need to pop over there for a cuppa and a chat for some inspiration.

I think the latest generation of GW artists has simply abandoned the grim dark aesthetic that made 40k so cool in the 90s and 2000s. FW sculpts and HH sculpts represent peak 40k styling and nothing GW has released recently has ever come close.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
1. Why are Heavy Stubbers suddenly all over Astartes vehicles. The total dregs of 40k, underhive gangers, genestealer cults, chaos uprisings, all use them because they're low rent guns, all over the place. Why would the bolter-fetish boys be suddenly fascinated by old fashioned 'machine guns'?

Them and the AdMech, if I'm honest. Why are the two most technologically advanced forces in the Imperium (Custodes not withstanding) using the 40K equivalent of a Browning M1919? Makes no sense me.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
2. Dreadnoughts I get, the pilots are near or sometimes over the point of death, knights, sentinels I get, their pilots are mere humans in a horrific and deadly galaxy. Why would a healthy supersoldier get into a walker like this, wearing his own power armour? It's a total waste of resource not to have brother smith back on the ground, in his amazing armour, with his amazing gun, whilst some chapter serf and a bunch of servitors operate this vehicle as support.

All Phobos Marines seem to be about taking "TactiCool" to its (il)logical endpoint, so in a way this weird gunslinger walker makes sense.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
3. I think they're out of ideas for Astartes, they're tripping over themselves to try and not created direct upgrades from standard marines to primaris so they're conjuring up units that have little use and that noone was asking for. Given how easily FW seems to come up with decent looking units for HH, I'm thinking they need to pop over there for a cuppa and a chat for some inspiration.

They painted themselves into a corner with Marines a long time ago (ref. Centurions!), and rather than making the last of the range into plastic (Techmarines and a few others), they just dumped old Marines and restarted with Primaris, giving us the current situation of sillier and sillier Marine releases.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
I'm stumped by this.

1. Why are Heavy Stubbers suddenly all over Astartes vehicles. The total dregs of 40k, underhive gangers, genestealer cults, chaos uprisings, all use them because they're low rent guns, all over the place. Why would the bolter-fetish boys be suddenly fascinated by old fashioned 'machine guns'?

2. Dreadnoughts I get, the pilots are near or sometimes over the point of death, knights, sentinels I get, their pilots are mere humans in a horrific and deadly galaxy. Why would a healthy supersoldier get into a walker like this, wearing his own power armour? It's a total waste of resource not to have brother smith back on the ground, in his amazing armour, with his amazing gun, whilst some chapter serf and a bunch of servitors operate this vehicle as support.

3. I think they're out of ideas for Astartes, they're tripping over themselves to try and not created direct upgrades from standard marines to primaris so they're conjuring up units that have little use and that noone was asking for. Given how easily FW seems to come up with decent looking units for HH, I'm thinking they need to pop over there for a cuppa and a chat for some inspiration.

Well, for #1, it isn't sudden. They started out on the the Primaris Box Tank #1, with no explanation given. Same for the second. Its still really weird, but it isn't new or sudden

For 2, a servitor or serf isn't worthy. Also, it drops the skill level, and further, they wouldn't be trusted by the marines going into battle with them to stick it out and know no fear the way a marine can. Servitors as tools for the techmarine is one thing, in the even-more-bigger armor? Not a chance.

For 3, 'No use' is a little strong. Clearly they don't have all the kinks worked out, but infiltrators certainly have a use, even if its just the denial of 9" drops.

3. I think they're out of ideas for Astartes, they're tripping over themselves to try and not created direct upgrades from standard marines to primaris so they're conjuring up units that have little use and that noone was asking for. Given how easily FW seems to come up with decent looking units for HH, I'm thinking they need to pop over there for a cuppa and a chat for some inspiration.

Yes... Most primaris units have weird design to be fair. Phobos armor is supposed to be more mobile but it doesn't give anything in mobility by itself ; Repulsor have tons of weapons but no coherence ; same for the new executioner ; the repressors have heavy weapons with jet packs, etc.
There is a fundamental problem with Primaris design in my opinion. That being said I love the minis overall (except maybe that new Dreadnought).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

They painted themselves into a corner with Marines a long time ago (ref. Centurions!), and rather than making the last of the range into plastic (Techmarines and a few others), they just dumped old Marines and restarted with Primaris, giving us the current situation of sillier and sillier Marine releases.

I don't doubt that once they've completely removed the original marine units and sold their new primaris army for a bit, they'll "discover" how to equip primaris with old school gear and voila, they get rerelease the entire back catalogue of classic marine designs with primaris twists.. .

To be fair at least primaris stubbers are ap1. But I think ita a result of a functional gearing up. They can afford to build and equip them faster than other weapons fluff wise so they are getting used.

 Crimson wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I genuinely can't get over the fact that so many people online seem to unironically like the sidearm thing on the not-dread.

It's bizarre.

And of course now someone will do the whole "hurr durr haterz gunna hate stop ragin' grandpa you mad lul" routine, but for real, I'm not angry, just baffled. It's pure basement-tier memery. Uncut cringe.

I can see it working on 'it is so silly that it is cool' level for some people, doesn't quite do it for me.

I'm trying to decide how to feel about the walker in general. I think I would like it more if it just was a light dreadnought with a sarcophagus instead of a pilot. These sort of piloted exo-suits are cool, but somehow it doesn't quite work as a space marine unit.

That is where I am at. I think I would actually like it if was all the same save instead of a pilot it had the redemptor style sarcophagus. As it is now, I think it moved to no pre-order and wait until Black Friday to see if I might want it.

I don't mind the sidearm so much if perhaps the kit also came with a model representing the pilot carrying it along with some rules detailing the walker destruction and a chance the pilot could be put on the table. I mean Primaris I already have Reaper, they might as well get D. Va too.

New models all look great as usual. I think I like the guy in the dread the best

 Hulksmash wrote:
To be fair at least primaris stubbers are ap1. But I think ita a result of a functional gearing up. They can afford to build and equip them faster than other weapons fluff wise so they are getting used.

I thought that was an amazing stubber before I realised this ain’t 7th anymore.

*sees thread about new Space Marine stuff.*

I couldn't possibly want any more Space Marine stuff. Besides, most of the Primaris stuff has looked kind of ridicu- WOOAAAHHHH WHAT IS THIS I WANT THIS WWOOOOOOAAAHHHH

 slave.entity wrote:
My problem isn't that it's retro. Retro is fine. My problem with it is it's not grimdark.

and how does it's looks make it grim dark or not? I mean how is it not grimdark well the rhino is?

 Hulksmash wrote:
To be fair at least primaris stubbers are ap1. But I think ita a result of a functional gearing up. They can afford to build and equip them faster than other weapons fluff wise so they are getting used.

That isn't in line with what's going on with Primaris equipment: Orbital insertion jetpacks, plasma guns by the bushel (in multiple variations), even more better bolters, rare cannons, grav plating by the box, high tech comms, even-more-better powerfists (relatively rare, admittedly) new varieties of power armor (not just a new version, but Gravis and Aggressor and stuff that can survive orbital insertion (somehow)), rain of death grenade launchers and... stubbers.

-1 AP or not, they're still basically modern 50 cal machine guns, and we've got half-a-dozen ways of improving armor penetration with such things. Its just such as vastly lower tech level for no apparent reason.

Regarding BA/DA being supplements, think of it this way:

Take out EVERYTHING in the current Codices that is shared in the main Marine book. I'd suspect what's left wouldn't be more than a half dozen or so pages more than the upcoming supplements, which look to be AT LEAST 50-100 pages each.

You're telling me that BAs DAs and SWs need over 100+ pages just for their unique stuff? There are whole non-Imperial factions that don't need that many pages

-

Kardan Stronos already had rules before, it would make sense for them to release him and an iron father rule.

My issue so far is: Where is my melee damn it!

I want to see some more stuff and read the rules before I make any judgment calls on whether this is bad or not

The new dreadnought is great.

The heroic intervention ability where we get +1 attack on a charge... Hmmm Sounds like a rule I suggested and got yelled at for ages about. Incrementive change > large changes.

marines getting that +1 attack is huge. Makes my army far better, and gives me the pride to say feth you Kacey. (he reads my posts its an inside joke)

Anyway i love the new models except for a few minor assertions :

Where are my black templars?

Tigirius's armor and his face are kind of eh, and samey to other marines, I've seen him more as elegant than stern. His armor should be more decorated fitting to his office.

Other than that looks like this might be a good release.

So many problems with the new marine line lately.

1. The bolter is supposed to be sacred amongst marines. A holy relic of destruction. When did the garbage stubber assume that role? Why is the worst weapon in the imperium all over space marine stuff now?

2. The dreadnought is a high honor amongst space marines, and the worst punishment amongst chaos. It was a cool dynamic that made them unique when it came to other sci-fi robot man suits. Now? EVERYONE CAN BE A DREADNOUGHT! WEEEEEEE!!!! Man how insulting to the heroes placed in dreadnoughts. But that's Belisarius Cawl for ya, he doesn't care about tradition.

3. It literally looks like something the genestealer cult should be using, like some sort of working loader. Or the imperial guard.

4. Stealth....dreadnought? Noise dampeners? Why can't every dreadnought just be given noise dampeners now? There's no point in this existing when a landspeeder would be a far superior recon vehicle.

5. No more grimdark because marines are tacticool now.

edit cuz more: 6. Why have super muscles if all primaris are garbage in melee? Seriously why can't they make a single good primaris melee unit? not even the dreadnoughts are good.

I mean I could go on if given the time but you get the point. I still think the idea of space marine snipers are dumb and superfluous but people seem to like the eliminators.

I ask again "what the heck is a grim dark look" how is the rhino "grim dark" well primaris are not?

as for Primaris being good or not in melee. I'd argue that the problem is a lack of a decicated hard hitting close combat unit which presumably we'll get.
I mean primaris are an amazing "bully CC" faction. (in the first round of melee combat a 5 man primaris unit will get 15 ST4 close combat attacks. which isn't great but will suffice for bullying any non CC infantry unit in the game) they'll just collapse if you try to rush them into combat with dedicated CC units. course most of those dedicated CC units I imagine you'll be able to out shoot.

You're right, wrong word choice, I meant dark gothic, not grimdark. There's nothing gothic or baroque about these primaris models.

 Don Savik wrote:
You're right, wrong word choice, I meant dark gothic, not grimdark. There's nothing gothic or baroque about these primaris models.

It does align with the whole tacticool thing though!

Oh wow, Tigurius and Kor’sarro actually look really good. First Primaris kit besides since the Intercessors that I’ve really liked. I also don’t have to buy the cruddy WS Terninator Praetor just to get a falcon bit now. I’ve wanted a Stormseer model with a falcon (like Njal’s model but not a raven), just haven’t committed to the kitbash.

Probably the only complaints I have are Tigurius’ head looking massive, and he’s got a stupid tactical rock pose. It’s better than the other primaris librarian poses though.

 Don Savik wrote:
You're right, wrong word choice, I meant dark gothic, not grimdark. There's nothing gothic or baroque about these primaris models.

... nor old marine models. With some terrain bits and Sisters models I'd grant some touches of gothic or baroque, and certainly most of the Imperial Battlefleet Gothic Line (and not just because of the name), but not rhinos, or SM power armor, or bikes, speeders, land raiders or what have you. Marine stuff has generally involved clean lines and curves with minimal ornamentation. Chaos marines, on the other hand/talon...

I really love the Avatar Amp-suit thing. One of my favorite things in the Avatar movie, and now Warhammer 40k gets a version of it. I just hope it doesn't have total crap rules, although I've learned over the years that some of the best models have some of the worst rules (like the new Ork vehicles. I mean, I don't even play Orks and I'm salty that those things basically suck balls). The Impulsor is interesting, although I'm not sure about those weapons (looks like basically just stubbers and storm bolters ).

As for the Primaris characters, I'll bet we get one with each supplement release. Sorry if I've been beaten to this punch, but I couldn't be bothered to read the whole thread right now.
Ultramarines: Tigurius
White Scars: Kor'sarro Khan
Iron Hands: As yet unnamed previewed character
Imperial Fists: Darnath Lysander
Salamanders: Vulkan He'stan
Raven Guard: Kayvaan Shrike

Now, I would hope that maybe some of the named DA/BA/SW characters will eventually get their Primaris makeover too. I'd love a Primaris Azrael to stick with all my Hellblasters.

While this doesn't really impact me, I do regret deleting a response I was typing maybe three days back. I was thinking "They should just do a new codex and then all the chapters should get smaller soft-bound 'chapter' books which detail their differences..." and then I deleted it.

Doesn't look like the supplements will be softback, but it's close enough. Oh well, now I'll never feel like a soothsayer.