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I’m mostly interested in what this new Codex + Supplement system might do for Guard. If they do a similar system for the Guard regiments with new plastics for them.... god help me. Only reason I didn’t buy a bunch of the Made to Order Vostroyans is because I hate working with metal models. Love the weight behind them, but nothing else.

Also I don’t understand why Flavor of the Month Marine players expected a White Dwarf index chapter to be the top sauce of Marine factions. It was a $10 magazine that they put in it just to throw a bone to fans of the chapter, it was never intended to be a top tier chapter tactic for flavor of the month players to bandwagon onto. If they release a (presumably) expensive Blood Raven supplement, and it still has gak rules, then your complaints will be validated.

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 godardc wrote:
It's was so fething time that the vehicles got CA ! Gonna keep to the Ultramarines then

Hopefully they will do the same for Genestealer Cults and Sisters as well.

I donlt think anyone is going to object to CT's now working for vehicles....

It was dumb as feck to begin with. They HAVE to update all codices not having their chapter applied to Vehicles (GSC are even worse in this aspect since they have half the codex not benefitting from the Creeds i.e. Vehicles, Brood Brother Units and Genestealer KEYWORDS)

It's actually over 2/3rds of the entries in the codex.

You know, in case anyone's counting

the_scotsman wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 godardc wrote:
It's was so fething time that the vehicles got CA ! Gonna keep to the Ultramarines then

Hopefully they will do the same for Genestealer Cults and Sisters as well.

I donlt think anyone is going to object to CT's now working for vehicles....

It was dumb as feck to begin with. They HAVE to update all codices not having their chapter applied to Vehicles (GSC are even worse in this aspect since they have half the codex not benefitting from the Creeds i.e. Vehicles, Brood Brother Units and Genestealer KEYWORDS)

It's actually over 2/3rds of the entries in the codex.

You know, in case anyone's counting

Amazing how the Cult codex was handled really well (tons of excellent rules and feeling like an army that can be truly unique, all on top of neat Cult traits) and then in some ways handled terribly.

My dudes might have a change of genes to salamanders...

vehicles with a single re-roll to hit and wound and ignoring -1 AP across the board... pretty solid.

... new IH upgrade frame

... probably in conjunction with feirros coming later this month

Where are you seeing the new upgrade frames? I'm seeing decals. Unless there is ahead im not seeing?

 Crazyterran wrote:
Where are you seeing the new upgrade frames? I'm seeing decals. Unless there is ahead im not seeing?

They're raised Iron Hands icons on the left pad rather than the other.

Oh, so they are, I was looking at the clan ones and the guys in the back.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Where are you seeing the new upgrade frames? I'm seeing decals. Unless there is ahead im not seeing?

They're raised Iron Hands icons on the left pad rather than the other.

They've done an awesome job of not drawing attention to them in that pic!

BaconCatBug wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Iron Hands had some unique elements I'll agree (terminator sergents) but salamnders last I checked where, outside of some company orginizational differances pretty much codex aren;t they?

Pretty much.

The Salamanders organize themselves in Great Companies rather than the typical codex companies, with 6 companies of 120+ warriors each in addition to a smaller scout "company" of roughly 60 men and their officers. Of the six companies, the first is a veteran company, the second through fourth are battle companies, and the fifth and sixth are reserve companies.

Other than that they are pretty much codex compliant outside of giving each battle brother training in the maintenance of their weapons rather than getting the techmarines to do it.

Stormonu wrote:I’m just happy Salamanders are getting a codex of their own.

Now, I’m just waiting for my Beil-Tan, Behemoth and Bork’an Codexes...

Salamanders are codex indifferent, so it'll be nice to see what cool legion stuff carries over from 30k. I hope all the first founding chapters get cool scheiss.

FINALLY, all units get Chapter Tactics.

I gotta say, I was expecting simply a CSM style update to this... so I am very excited.

course the part of me that does my chaos army is a bit annoyed they didn't do this with chaos. I'm hoping they'll massivly FAQ CSMs space wolves, blood angels and dark angels. make the snowflake chapters bonus apply to everything and give CSMs a re-work. as it is, if an iron warriors player asked to use the Imp fists CT I'd be happy to let em

 insaniak wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Where are you seeing the new upgrade frames? I'm seeing decals. Unless there is ahead im not seeing?

They're raised Iron Hands icons on the left pad rather than the other.

They've done an awesome job of not drawing attention to them in that pic!

I'm wondering how long they've been done for. Because the Raven Guard one doesn't have them on the Inceptors and the Salamanders, Crimson Fists, Black Templars, and White Scars don't really feature Primaris in them and have models turned away from the camera.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Where are you seeing the new upgrade frames? I'm seeing decals. Unless there is ahead im not seeing?

They're raised Iron Hands icons on the left pad rather than the other.

Raised cog teeth as well around the edge of the pauldron. Pretty cool!

Sigh. More useless Adeptus Restartes.

 aracersss wrote:
... new IH upgrade frame

... probably in conjunction with feirros coming later this month

Called it. I’d put money on each supplement having an upgrade come out with it or shortly before/after.

BrianDavion wrote:
course the part of me that does my chaos army is a bit annoyed they didn't do this with chaos.

Honestly, I'd say give it a year. Whenever the remaining multi-part kits get released I would be less than surprised to see a new chaos codex more along these lines.

the_scotsman wrote:
Would be nice. I do like how this entire time they kept all the non-codex/CSM armies at the same artificially low power bar, and now they're releasing just the codex armies with a total redesign, which arbitrarily makes them way better.

Until, of course, we SLOG through another 6 fething months of nothing but marine codex after marine codex to get them all up to date.

What now?

One, from yesterday's article, we're told point blank that they get access to the new datasheets.
Two, from today's article, we're told point blank that the variant marine codexes are getting a free update:

** If you’re a fan of the Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Grey Knights or Deathwatch, don’t worry – you can look forward to official rules updates coming soon via free PDF download. And remember, you Heretic Astartes players out there will also be gaining Shock Assault for your units in a similar update!

Your complaints are invalid.

Voss wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Would be nice. I do like how this entire time they kept all the non-codex/CSM armies at the same artificially low power bar, and now they're releasing just the codex armies with a total redesign, which arbitrarily makes them way better.

Until, of course, we SLOG through another 6 fething months of nothing but marine codex after marine codex to get them all up to date.

What now?

One, from yesterday's article, we're told point blank that they get access to the new datasheets.
Two, from today's article, we're told point blank that the variant marine codexes are getting a free update:

** If you’re a fan of the Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Grey Knights or Deathwatch, don’t worry – you can look forward to official rules updates coming soon via free PDF download. And remember, you Heretic Astartes players out there will also be gaining Shock Assault for your units in a similar update!

Your complaints are invalid.

But that implies that the Chaos Marines are stuck with their mostly inferior Legion Tactics now until there is a CSM v3.0 book. Unless its yet another mistake from the webcrew, who only mention the update being for Shock Assault, and there is a Legion Tactics update coming.

I hope the FAQ updates implied for chaos and the special snowflake chapters tweek the Chaos CTs a bit. doubtful but..

 Apple Peel wrote:

 aracersss wrote:
... new IH upgrade frame

... probably in conjunction with feirros coming later this month

Called it. I’d put money on each supplement having an upgrade come out with it or shortly before/after.

And possibly even special character to run with those Supplements. Or have everyone forgotten this one;

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
But that implies that the Chaos Marines are stuck with their mostly inferior Legion Tactics now until there is a CSM v3.0 book. Unless its yet another mistake from the webcrew, who only mention the update being for Shock Assault, and there is a Legion Tactics update coming.

Maybe they'll update CSM 2.0 with a PDF and give each of the Legions better traits through supplement books?

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
But that implies that the Chaos Marines are stuck with their mostly inferior Legion Tactics now until there is a CSM v3.0 book. Unless its yet another mistake from the webcrew, who only mention the update being for Shock Assault, and there is a Legion Tactics update coming.

Maybe they'll update CSM 2.0 with a PDF and give each of the Legions better traits through supplement books?

once they finish codex supplements for the first founding loyalists, I can see them doing it for the various chaos legions.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
But that implies that the Chaos Marines are stuck with their mostly inferior Legion Tactics now until there is a CSM v3.0 book. Unless its yet another mistake from the webcrew, who only mention the update being for Shock Assault, and there is a Legion Tactics update coming.

Maybe they'll update CSM 2.0 with a PDF and give each of the Legions better traits through supplement books?

Man I hope so, just so that CSM 2.0 can be updated for like the 5th time to show they really don't plan this all out and books dont "go to the printers a year in advance". This was obviously planned with Shadowspear yet CSM simply didn't get any of the new rules.

Voss wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Would be nice. I do like how this entire time they kept all the non-codex/CSM armies at the same artificially low power bar, and now they're releasing just the codex armies with a total redesign, which arbitrarily makes them way better.

Until, of course, we SLOG through another 6 fething months of nothing but marine codex after marine codex to get them all up to date.

What now?

One, from yesterday's article, we're told point blank that they get access to the new datasheets.
Two, from today's article, we're told point blank that the variant marine codexes are getting a free update:

** If you’re a fan of the Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Grey Knights or Deathwatch, don’t worry – you can look forward to official rules updates coming soon via free PDF download. And remember, you Heretic Astartes players out there will also be gaining Shock Assault for your units in a similar update!

Your complaints are invalid.

I missed that last bit. Deathwatch is decent but they'll definitely want something after this update.

Really hammers home how much it sucks to play an NPC race in 40K. Chaos gets to live with their sub-standard Legion traits for, what, another half-decade?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Really hammers home how much it sucks to play an NPC race in 40K. Chaos gets to live with their sub-standard Legion traits for, what, another half-decade?

some people are saying chaos is topping tournies right now so it's not so bad, but how many of those armies run anything more then 17 red cosrairs from the CSM dex?

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Really hammers home how much it sucks to play an NPC race in 40K. Chaos gets to live with their sub-standard Legion traits for, what, another half-decade?

some people are saying chaos is topping tournies right now so it's not so bad, but how many of those armies run anything more then 17 red cosrairs from the CSM dex?

Tournament armies don't equal Fluff armies. Not every Chaos player wants to play "Slaanesh Alpha Legion", "Slaanesh Red Corsairs", or whatever exploit is the flavor this month. This Edition I've bought the: Chaos Index, 8th Ed Codex, Vigilis Ablaze and a 2.0 Codex; and they just now realize that the Chapter and Legion Traits weren't balanced? They should have dropped theses changes in a free PDF.

 Sersi wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Really hammers home how much it sucks to play an NPC race in 40K. Chaos gets to live with their sub-standard Legion traits for, what, another half-decade?

some people are saying chaos is topping tournies right now so it's not so bad, but how many of those armies run anything more then 17 red cosrairs from the CSM dex?

Tournament armies don't equal Fluff armies. Not every Chaos player wants to play "Slaanesh Alpha Legion", "Slaanesh Red Corsairs", or whatever exploit is the flavor this month. This Edition I've bought the: Chaos Index, 8th Ed Codex, Vigilis Ablaze and a 2.0 Codex; and they just now realize that the Chapter and Legion Traits weren't balanced? They should have dropped theses changes in a free PDF.

ohh I agree. they need to give CSMs updated traits. especially as some of their traits are direct mirrors IW and AL for example

One issue here is that there doesn't seem to be anything to fix the current problems with running 10 man squads. 10 mans are already not good due to how Morale works. ATSKNF does basically nothing for them. Hopefully they change how it works in some way. And of course, Salamanders and Crimson Fists are both incentivizing MSU squads too.

But really the morale system itself needs an overhaul. It is silly that it impacts 10 man heavy infantry the hardest, and barely matters against hordes as they all have mitigating mechanics. And if they do make ATSKNF good, then Chaos just gets left out in the cold. 10 Man marine squads should be one of the least efficient units in the game to kill with morale, not the easiest.