New Codex SM and Chapter Splat Books Coming! (Core and UM/WS splat book FAQs are out)

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**Slayer-Fan123**

You can make some durable Marines potentially. Imagine Iron Hands 6+++ plus the Raven Guard bonus.

Personally I'm leaning towards the extra 3" range already. Ya know how great that is just for an add-on?

**Irbis**

WisdomLS wrote:
The mix and match has me worried, it's very hard to balance 19 different bonuses with no cost attached and very likely there are some bonkers combinations.

As it seems like you'll be able to take the different parts of the main chapters as bonuses a couple that immediately jump out are:
Advance and charge + reroll any charge dice, makes for super reliable charges.
Fallback and shot/overwatch on 5 etc + reroll a single hit and wound, the salamanders have a great half a tactic, swapping the ignore ap1 for something better seems like a winner.

I don't think you can do this. 18 tactics would logically suggest you can pick each 'half' of every founding legion, but since there are new 'half' traits, some of the legion tactics must be off the list for mix and matching. Doubly so because this would render the 'copy father legion tactic' trait useless, so my guess will be that half of every (or at worst most of them) single legion tactic is off the table...

**Desubot**

Oh on a side note

wasn't there a huge point of contention about the creation of primarus marines and how they are all vat grown and such

well with tiggy and KHAAAAANNNN being upgraded seems like the doors have opened for story and other models.

would love to see what happens to lysander.

**Voss**

Redemption wrote:
Latro_ wrote:
Shaping up to potentially make some tailored lists if there are 19 to pick that's what 361 combinations?

171 combinations, as you can't pick doubles and order doesn't matter.

But we all know it's probably just going to be the same 5 or so combinations that everyone will use.

Less than 171, actually, as the first one is 'parent chapter tactic as is, don't pick a second'

Not happy to see preferred enemy <X> in there, as that's either a waste most of the time or X is 'whatever enemy I'm currently facing.'

Morale one is nice though. I'm curious if the 6++ or double wound vehicles gets the nod from Iron Hands.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Oooh I like the successor chapter tactics rules. I hope other armies get similar versions, because the current selections feels really limited.

**Crimson**

Being able to create your own chapter tactic is super awesome. I really hope that doing so doesn't lock you out from terribly many stratagems and relics.

**Mr Morden**

Crimson wrote:
Kirasu wrote:
It's fairly absurd to think their most successful range (plastic space marines) are getting dropped. Eldar has models from 1993.
They just announced a bunch of new plastic space marines.

True dat, they finished the basic range (small Marines) and now they are on to the Primaris range

Wow we are so hard done by having three entire massive ranges including pretty much every possible option IN PLASTIC to choose from

Seriously.

**BaconCatBug**

Irbis wrote:
WisdomLS wrote:
The mix and match has me worried, it's very hard to balance 19 different bonuses with no cost attached and very likely there are some bonkers combinations.

As it seems like you'll be able to take the different parts of the main chapters as bonuses a couple that immediately jump out are:
Advance and charge + reroll any charge dice, makes for super reliable charges.
Fallback and shot/overwatch on 5 etc + reroll a single hit and wound, the salamanders have a great half a tactic, swapping the ignore ap1 for something better seems like a winner.

I don't think you can do this. 18 tactics would logically suggest you can pick each 'half' of every founding legion, but since there are new 'half' traits, some of the legion tactics must be off the list for mix and matching. Doubly so because this would render the 'copy father legion tactic' trait useless, so my guess will be that half of every (or at worst most of them) single legion tactic is off the table...

They might have added the Father Legion tactic simply because they knew some people wouldn't understand and get upset, but we don't know if you can identically replicate every fixed tactic yet.

Also, due to the "Look at the fluff" rule in the current SM codex, I don't think it was legal to have a "successor" of the BT or CF use their tactics, but now it's super duper not allowed. You'll need to use the BLACK TEMPLAR or CRIMSON FISTS keyword now.

**ImAGeek**

Does anyone know what chapter this is?

**Crimson**

Silver Templars.

**Alpharius**

Desubot wrote:
Oh on a side note

wasn't there a huge point of contention about the creation of primarus marines and how they are all vat grown and such

well with tiggy and KHAAAAANNNN being upgraded seems like the doors have opened for story and other models.

would love to see what happens to lysander.

Isn't he dead?

**BaconCatBug**

Alpharius wrote:
Desubot wrote:
Oh on a side note

wasn't there a huge point of contention about the creation of primarus marines and how they are all vat grown and such

well with tiggy and KHAAAAANNNN being upgraded seems like the doors have opened for story and other models.

would love to see what happens to lysander.

Isn't he dead?

AFAIK no.

In 998.M41, Lysander defeated the Iron Warriors Warsmith Shon'tu once more in the Battle for the Endeavour of Will, saving the Imperial Fists starfort Endeavour of Will from being captured by Shon'tu and earning the Warsmith's eternal emnity as a result.

Lysander also apprehended the mutant Sarpedon, the Chapter Master of the tragic Renegade Soul Drinkers Chapter.

**Desubot**

Alpharius wrote:
Desubot wrote:
Oh on a side note

wasn't there a huge point of contention about the creation of primarus marines and how they are all vat grown and such

well with tiggy and KHAAAAANNNN being upgraded seems like the doors have opened for story and other models.

would love to see what happens to lysander.

Isn't he dead?

Oh...

I wonder if the fists will get a new boi.

**ImAGeek**

Crimson wrote:
Silver Templars.

Ah, the conquest magazine ones? They look cool here. Didn’t realise they had yellow in the scheme.

Thanks!

**Crimson**

I really hope the first part of the White Scars tactic is something you can choose. I really like it, but as Primaris do not (yet) have (jet) bikes, the last part of the full WS tactic is utterly wasted,

**Drudge Dreadnought**

The wording on Bolter Fusillades is odd. It seems to be that a model can only re-roll a single hit roll of 1. So if it has a multiple shot weapon, you can't re-roll them all. Which also means that when having a whole unit fire, you need to keep their dice separate from each other, which will be a massive hassle.

**Desubot**

Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

The wording on Bolter Fusillades is odd. It seems to be that a model can only re-roll a single hit roll of 1. So if it has a multiple shot weapon, you can't re-roll them all. Which also means that when having a whole unit fire, you need to keep their dice separate from each other, which will be a massive hassle.

I though the wording meant you can only ever reroll 1 hit roll of a 1.

so a marine rf a boltgun and rolls 2 1s

he can only reroll 1 of those.

which means fast dice is going to be a pain.

**Kirasu**

Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

The wording on Bolter Fusillades is odd. It seems to be that a model can only re-roll a single hit roll of 1. So if it has a multiple shot weapon, you can't re-roll them all. Which also means that when having a whole unit fire, you need to keep their dice separate from each other, which will be a massive hassle.

Its just the new wording for what an attack is. A weapon with 3 shots isn't 3 separate attacks, it's a single attack with 3 rolls to hit.

**BaconCatBug**

Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
The wording on Bolter Fusillades is odd. It seems to be that a model can only re-roll a single hit roll of 1. So if it has a multiple shot weapon, you can't re-roll them all. Which also means that when having a whole unit fire, you need to keep their dice separate from each other, which will be a massive hassle.

That isn't how it works. A Heavy Bolter has 3 Attacks, and each attack is resolved one at a time, so each attack gets to re-roll 1's.

It's stupid wording that's going to cause arguments, but it does technically work.

Also, the new traits in a nutshell:

Spoiler:

**Elbows**

Eh, other rules with re-rolling 1's clearly state "re-roll hit rolls of 1"....it is worded poorly and does indeed sound like you re-roll only one shot.

**BaconCatBug**

Elbows wrote:
Eh, other rules with re-rolling 1's clearly state "re-roll hit rolls of 1"....it is worded poorly and does indeed sound like you re-roll only one shot.

It's writen that way so only Bolt Weapons get to benefit. I agree it's clunky and should be worded better.

**Geifer**

Desubot wrote:
Alpharius wrote:
Desubot wrote:
Oh on a side note

wasn't there a huge point of contention about the creation of primarus marines and how they are all vat grown and such

well with tiggy and KHAAAAANNNN being upgraded seems like the doors have opened for story and other models.

would love to see what happens to lysander.

Isn't he dead?

Oh...

I wonder if the fists will get a new boi.

Nah, Lysander's not dead. Death came for him once. It was Death's last mistake.

...

I'd love it if we got primaisized Lysander as the first Primaris Terminator. Knowing GW they'll probably stick him in fatboy Mk.X, though.

I'm currently excited about the prospect of getting Imperial Fists dice. The character coming with the supplement, I'll just wait and see. Not even hope for the best. Just wait and see. Maybe GW surprises me.

**Alpharius**

Desubot wrote:
Alpharius wrote:
Desubot wrote:
Oh on a side note

wasn't there a huge point of contention about the creation of primarus marines and how they are all vat grown and such

well with tiggy and KHAAAAANNNN being upgraded seems like the doors have opened for story and other models.

would love to see what happens to lysander.

Isn't he dead?

Oh...

I wonder if the fists will get a new boi.

I might be mistaken - happens a lot! - or it might be one of those things where he was dead and now...he's not?

Either way, you might be OK, and everyone's favorite yellow armor clad loonie with a hammer might "Cross The Rubicon Primaris" after all!

**Geifer**

Alpharius wrote:
Desubot wrote:
Alpharius wrote:
Desubot wrote:
Oh on a side note

wasn't there a huge point of contention about the creation of primarus marines and how they are all vat grown and such

well with tiggy and KHAAAAANNNN being upgraded seems like the doors have opened for story and other models.

would love to see what happens to lysander.

Isn't he dead?

Oh...

I wonder if the fists will get a new boi.

I might be mistaken - happens a lot! - or it might be one of those things where he was dead and now...he's not?

Either way, you might be OK, and everyone's favorite yellow armor clad loonie with a hammer might "Cross The Rubicon Primaris" after all!

The 4th ed codex introduced (Captain) Lysander as a historical character, speaking of him only in the past tense and suggesting that he was dead in 999M.41. Suggested, but not confirmed.

Ward era Lysander brought him into modern 40k after breaking out of a Iron Warriors prison (while he was naked and the Iron Warriors were not - wimps!).

I'm not aware that he got killed off in the meantime, but given his history it's understandable that he's a bit confusing in that regard.

**Dudeface**

Elbows wrote:
Eh, other rules with re-rolling 1's clearly state "re-roll hit rolls of 1"....it is worded poorly and does indeed sound like you re-roll only one shot.

"Re-roll a hit roll of 1" is very specifically a singular hit roll of 1 each time the model makes a ranged attack. Wording is clear but application is clunky and hard to use. Rolling those rapid fire shots per model etc.

**Quasistellar**

I think everyone needs to go back to the big rule book and re-read the section about resolving attacks (and fast rolling dice).

**Dysartes**

Quasistellar wrote:
I think everyone needs to go back to the big rule book and re-read the section about resolving attacks (and fast rolling dice).

...or you could be helpful, and quote what you think you've found?

**Alpharius**

Geifer wrote:

Nah, Lysander's not dead. Death came for him once. It was Death's last mistake.

...

I'd love it if we got primaisized Lysander as the first Primaris Terminator. Knowing GW they'll probably stick him in fatboy Mk.X, though.

I'm hoping we get the Primaris equivalent of Terminator Armor too - that and getting more options for existing Primaris units, so we can finally field all Primaris armies all the time!

**BaconCatBug**

Dudeface wrote:
Elbows wrote:
Eh, other rules with re-rolling 1's clearly state "re-roll hit rolls of 1"....it is worded poorly and does indeed sound like you re-roll only one shot.

"Re-roll a hit roll of 1" is very specifically a singular hit roll of 1 each time the model makes a ranged attack. Wording is clear but application is clunky and hard to use. Rolling those rapid fire shots per model etc.

Did you not see my explanation? Each attack is made one at a time. A heavy bolter makes 3 attacks, and each of those attacks can be re-rolled if 1.

**Alpharius**

I like chocolate in my peanut butter, but can we take the speculative You Make Da Call stuff to the appropriate subforum?