Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
On the one hand, I hate that it has taken this long for GW to finally let me make a custom Chapter with proper tactics/relics/a Chapter Master.

But on the other hand...how soon can we expect absolutely broken combos with the new custom chapter tactics?

I figure we'll start hearing about broken combos in about a week

I bet after the first reviews hit on Saturday.

Considering GW and hints allready given, as soon as people have got views of the book.
Not a week, closer to 2 days maximum.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Silver144 wrote:
Those chapters tactics do not seems that strong, if the current point cost will stay the same.

Like 6+++ on 1w 13+pts model? Yeaaah, ok, 4pts guardsmans are still better. Like 3...4 wounds for the same cost.

Things become real when those doctrines will be revealed. +1 atk first round AND +1 rend army whide via doctrine, now we ate talking.

Solve the issue of scale creep and bad mission, transport and price balancing by throwing add on rules galore at the army with the issues isn't going to solve this in the long run imo.
As much as like to finally see fleshed out chapter etc, i doubt it will not lead to issues bigger then present.

I am totally agree with you. The rule bloat as patch to current problems is a bad way to solve the problems. Like instead this angel of death rule they could just add +1 atk to marine's profile. Much cleaner and novice friendly. The same with rend for bolter and close combat as attempt to patch hollow offence power of this "elite" army.

But fixing army via rule bloat is still better, than leaving it in the dust, so... I am pretty excited.

 Brother Castor wrote:
Shrike needs to have a Corvus helmet.

he does but the gorget on MK X armor gets in the way, still easy eneugh to address when you're talking a single custom mini.

Yep, this custom chapters probably will lead to min maxing subfaction. You want to have this "bolterdrill" CT on your veteran indominus intercessors, but this CT is useless for your lascannon devastators, so those will be in their own sub detachment with salamander's like reroll hit/wound CT. And then you want this repulsors , so new detachment with ignore damage table.

I really love how GW made my SW army without this subfaction bloat, just one CT for entire army.

Silver144 wrote:

I really love how GW made my SW army without this subfaction bloat, just one CT for entire army.

Some would argue that is because your entire SW codex IS subfaction bloat

BrianDavion wrote:

Silver144 wrote:

I really love how GW made my SW army without this subfaction bloat, just one CT for entire army.

Some would argue that is because your entire SW codex IS subfaction bloat

You see, if GW would've just sarted with a SM book including the special chapters and then started releasing supplements we might never have been in this gutter place in the first place.

Fair enough. But in the 7ed there was SW subfactions. Many thanks for not bringing them in 8ed.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Brother Castor wrote:
Shrike needs to have a Corvus helmet.

he does but the gorget on MK X armor gets in the way, still easy eneugh to address when you're talking a single custom mini.

If only there were a mark of armor compatible with a corvus helmet...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd argue it's the regular humans that are the borked scale, and that Marines are fine.

Well, that ship sailed a long time ago.

Anyway, it's not about being too tall. They don't look like taller Marines. They look like Marines on a different scale. Like they're Marines from a 32+mm game mixed in with 28mmh minis. That's what Crimson didn't seem to understand.

I don't understand it because it makes zero sense. Things that are scaled properly in relation to their lore size look to be wrongly scaled to you... So they should intentionally scale things wrong to make them look right to you? Should ogryns be a size of a guardsmen so that they don't look like like models from a game using another scale to you? Does a Land Raider look to be wrongly scaled to you because it is bigger than Chimera? I really don't think it is feasible for GW to base their scaling on your random subjective feels on how much wrongly different models should be scaled to look right to you.

We’ve always known that the scale was screwed. Put some of the £6 three pack marines next to a plastic guardsman and tell me that that marine is seven feet tall.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

If only there were a mark of armor compatible with a corvus helmet...

Indeed. I've been putting Corvus helms on my Phobos guys (along with a studded shoulder pad) and it looks great.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
We’ve always known that the scale was screwed. Put some of the £6 three pack marines next to a plastic guardsman and tell me that that marine is seven feet tall.

And finally that has been fixed! Hallelujah!

 Crimson wrote:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
We’ve always known that the scale was screwed. Put some of the £6 three pack marines next to a plastic guardsman and tell me that that marine is seven feet tall.

And finally that has been fixed! Hallelujah!

Is that actually true? If Primaris were just embiggened Space Marines like many of us wanted, sure, their size relative to the current human size would be fixed.

But as I understand it Primaris are supposed to co-exist with normal Marines and are clearly a head taller while normal Marines are still as small or even smaller as normal humans.

Where's the fix? Does the background say they're the same 7ft tall as normal Marines instead of standing a head taller as the models suggest, and we'll just have to put up with the obsolete size of the old Marines until those kits are retired?

 Brother Castor wrote:
Shrike needs to have a Corvus helmet.

Yeah, Mk VII characters were one thing, but it will be really interesting to see what GW will do with iconic characters in other marks. EC with crusader helmet?

Sigh, with all the chapters getting Primaris characters now, it would be nice if Deathwatch got one too to show 'canon' DW primaris look...

 Kanluwen wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm totally down for Shrike getting Phobos gear. The new Eliminator Bolt Sniper Rifles are "Shrike Patterns" if I remember correctly...would be cool to see him get to be more of Corax's "ranged killer" side.

That would be fine for a new character or the other Shadow Captain from FW. Shrike is a sneaky, CC killmonster. I want Omnis pattern for him.

Shrike's whatever he damn well wants to be. He was "a sneaky, CC killmonster" when he was a Shadow Captain--he's not that anymore.
He's a Chapter Master. He has responsibilities he didn't before, and if he's the one we're getting Primarised? I can't imagine he'd be all "lemme get new claws bruh" when the previous Chapter Master was gunned down doing "sneaky, CC killmonster" stuff.

Except there already is Raven Guard 'sniper' character archetype - Lias Issodon, chapter master of the Raptors. It's the Raptors who are about sneaking and sniping, Raven Guard always embodied the 'sneaking then bashing face' side of the chapter. Out of four Raven Guard captains we got so far, Severax, Shrike, Korvydae, Solaq, all of them were about getting in enemy face and smashing. Changing the theme of the chapter now would be as dumb as randomly destroying established identity by designating the Crimson Fists the 'screaming fanatics waving chainswords and running at enemy' chapter, when there is already iconic, beloved successor already doing it...

 Crimson wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

If only there were a mark of armor compatible with a corvus helmet...

Indeed. I've been putting Corvus helms on my Phobos guys (along with a studded shoulder pad) and it looks great.

You're adorable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Irbis wrote:
Changing the theme of the chapter now would be as dumb as randomly destroying established identity by designating the Crimson Fists the 'screaming fanatics waving chainswords and running at enemy' chapter, when there is already iconic, beloved successor already doing it...

...or! ...or as dumb as randomly destroying the established setting by blowing up Cadia and bringing back primarchs from the dead and introducing a new line of space marines that are even more space mariney than the old space marines so that they make let everyone repurchase their entire space marine collection!

 Geifer wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
We’ve always known that the scale was screwed. Put some of the £6 three pack marines next to a plastic guardsman and tell me that that marine is seven feet tall.

And finally that has been fixed! Hallelujah!

Is that actually true? If Primaris were just embiggened Space Marines like many of us wanted, sure, their size relative to the current human size would be fixed.

But as I understand it Primaris are supposed to co-exist with normal Marines and are clearly a head taller while normal Marines are still as small or even smaller as normal humans.

Where's the fix? Does the background say they're the same 7ft tall as normal Marines instead of standing a head taller as the models suggest, and we'll just have to put up with the obsolete size of the old Marines until those kits are retired?

The other issue is while we all know the vehicle scale in 40k isn't the same as the models, they really do highlight the scale creep that has gone on as a number of kits transitioning from metal to plastic.

But it's also not just a marine issue it has always been a GW issue that bigger models are built on what feels like a sliding scale of the smaller the mini shouls be the bigger scale it's manufactured at ie guard at 32mm.
While vehicals scaled more than they shoild be and end up looking like 25mm scale.

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
We’ve always known that the scale was screwed. Put some of the £6 three pack marines next to a plastic guardsman and tell me that that marine is seven feet tall.

I always assumed because they are game pieces rather than scale models it wasn't a thing, i mean look at Monopoly, nobody ever complains that the dog and the boat are the wrong scale .

Obispudkenobi wrote:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
We’ve always known that the scale was screwed. Put some of the £6 three pack marines next to a plastic guardsman and tell me that that marine is seven feet tall.

I always assumed because they are game pieces rather than scale models it wasn't a thing, i mean look at Monopoly, nobody ever complains that the dog and the boat are the wrong scale .

...because it doesn't really matter there, whereas it does matter in wargames like 40K.

Goddamnit, after a friend of mine pointed it out, I can't unsee the fact the Impulsor is a Space El Camino.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Goddamnit, after a friend of mine pointed it out, I can't unsee the fact the Impulsor is a Space El Camino.

The only solution to that problem is to make full use of Contrast and paint yours blue chrome.

 Geifer wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Goddamnit, after a friend of mine pointed it out, I can't unsee the fact the Impulsor is a Space El Camino.

The only solution to that problem is to make full use of Contrast and paint yours blue chrome.

Well, considering I play Crimson Fists (4chan's Mexican Marines), I am playing La Cucaracha every time I put one on the board.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Goddamnit, after a friend of mine pointed it out, I can't unsee the fact the Impulsor is a Space El Camino.

The only solution to that problem is to make full use of Contrast and paint yours blue chrome.

Well, considering I play Crimson Fists (4chan's Mexican Marines), I am playing La Cucaracha every time I put one on the board.

From the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page:

Warhammer 40,000 wrote:When the new edition of Codex: Space Marines is launched, there will be a free download covering the use of the new datasheets in other Space Marines armies, such as the Dark Angels.

This will cover units such as the Impulsor. This will not cover existing units such as Centurions, who will remain the preserve of armies drawn from Codex: Space Marines.

We hope this clears this up for you.

 Geifer wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Goddamnit, after a friend of mine pointed it out, I can't unsee the fact the Impulsor is a Space El Camino.

The only solution to that problem is to make full use of Contrast and paint yours blue chrome.

Well, considering I play Crimson Fists (4chan's Mexican Marines), I am playing La Cucaracha every time I put one on the board.

Nothing can keep a good astartes down.
Nothing, just like a Cucaracha

Speaking of the Space El Camino, how many points do you suppose it will cost? A similar loadout on a Razorback costs about 100 pts. I could see this thing costing about 125 pts provided it is 6 passengers.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
...or! ...or as dumb as randomly destroying the established setting by blowing up Cadia and bringing back primarchs from the dead and introducing a new line of space marines that are even more space mariney than the old space marines so that they make let everyone repurchase their entire space marine collection!

Nice strawman you have got here, but there is 'slight' difference between finally starting logical progression (instead of having stupid 'frozen' M41 999 where characters and whole chapters were instantly teleporting across 20 warzones as it was the only year in which books were allowed to add new fluff) and completely reversing the direction in which iconic chapter was directed for last 25+ years. Also, returned from the dead? Wot? If anything, chaos primarchs sitting on their asses being completely useless for 10000 years was the comical stuff, not them finally being able to do something...

Whilst logically a space marine character of course could change his gear and even fighting style during his career, I assume they will keep the Primaris versions pretty close to their originals. Otherwise there is little reason to upgrade the existing characters instead of just creating new ones.

 Irbis wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
...or! ...or as dumb as randomly destroying the established setting by blowing up Cadia and bringing back primarchs from the dead and introducing a new line of space marines that are even more space mariney than the old space marines so that they make let everyone repurchase their entire space marine collection!

Nice strawman you have got here, but there is 'slight' difference between finally starting logical progression (instead of having stupid 'frozen' M41 999 where characters and whole chapters were instantly teleporting across 20 warzones as it was the only year in which books were allowed to add new fluff) and completely reversing the direction in which iconic chapter was directed for last 25+ years. Also, returned from the dead? Wot? If anything, chaos primarchs sitting on their asses being completely useless for 10000 years was the comical stuff, not them finally being able to do something...

Perturabo:,I hate the Emperor so damn much!

*Fulgrim throws a rock through his window*

Perturabo: Feth you Fulgrim! *thousand year long battle ensues*

They did stuff, clearly.

Silver144 wrote:
Those chapters tactics do not seems that strong, if the current point cost will stay the same.

Like 6+++ on 1w 13+pts model? Yeaaah, ok, 4pts guardsmans are still better. Like 3...4 wounds for the same cost.

Things become real when those doctrines will be revealed. +1 atk first round AND +1 rend army whide via doctrine, now we ate talking.

I'm sorry what rend are we talking about?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Speaking of the Space El Camino, how many points do you suppose it will cost? A similar loadout on a Razorback costs about 100 pts. I could see this thing costing about 125 pts provided it is 6 passengers.

I'm personally hoping for just under 100pts with capacity 10, but that's seems unlikely. But if it only has capacity 5 and/or is more than 125pts, it's DOA for me.

-

 Irbis wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
...or! ...or as dumb as randomly destroying the established setting by blowing up Cadia and bringing back primarchs from the dead and introducing a new line of space marines that are even more space mariney than the old space marines so that they make let everyone repurchase their entire space marine collection!

Nice strawman you have got here, but there is 'slight' difference between finally starting logical progression (instead of having stupid 'frozen' M41 999 where characters and whole chapters were instantly teleporting across 20 warzones as it was the only year in which books were allowed to add new fluff) and completely reversing the direction in which iconic chapter was directed for last 25+ years. Also, returned from the dead? Wot? If anything, chaos primarchs sitting on their asses being completely useless for 10000 years was the comical stuff, not them finally being able to do something...

Uh, what? For the last 25 years the iconic backbone of your iconic chapters has been the iconic tactical squad. That's all going away now. They are literally replacing your iconic space marines wholesale with new "improved" space marines that have different equipment, different organizational structures, even different internal organs.

And you're fine with all that but you draw the line at giving Shrike a gun? Really?? Like, newsflash bro! Some things are going to change. Jump pack assault units are soo pre-primaris dude. Get with the program!

YOUR LORE IS OBSOLETE!