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 Galef wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Speaking of the Space El Camino, how many points do you suppose it will cost? A similar loadout on a Razorback costs about 100 pts. I could see this thing costing about 125 pts provided it is 6 passengers.

I'm personally hoping for just under 100pts with capacity 10, but that's seems unlikely. But if it only has capacity 5 and/or is more than 125pts, it's DOA for me.

-

I doubt it is 10 Marines, though I would be fine being wrong. I am just comparing it to the Razorback. Fly is a really good ability. I could see them charging a few points for it.

Fly is a good ability IF the vehicle has a use. Transporting random Primaris isn't exactly the same as if Khorne Berserkers could get this thing. It has a lot of S4 guns it seems, which could be cool but again the price is a huge issue.

Just look at the new admech vehicle. It has a ton of guns and costs less than a rhino (which is probably one of the worst vehicles tho), yes i know it doesnt have fly and thats why I mentioned a rhino as a price point.

FLY on a Razor back would be decent and worth points. Fly on a transport with just Heavy stubbers is meh.
The transport should either have no guns (maybe just a twin stubber or storm bolter) and be cheap, or actually have decent guns. But instead, it's looking like it's going to have a bunch of 'meh' guns, but pay for the privilege.

-

 Kirasu wrote:
Fly is a good ability IF the vehicle has a use. Transporting random Primaris isn't exactly the same as if Khorne Berserkers could get this thing. It has a lot of S4 guns it seems, which could be cool but again the price is a huge issue.

Just look at the new admech vehicle. It has a ton of guns and costs less than a rhino (which is probably one of the worst vehicles tho), yes i know it doesnt have fly and thats why I mentioned a rhino as a price point.

Very good point. But the Skorpius doesn't have Primaris Tax. Also, Fly helps prevent it from being surrounded so it can't be prevented from unloading its passengers.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Fly is a good ability IF the vehicle has a use. Transporting random Primaris isn't exactly the same as if Khorne Berserkers could get this thing. It has a lot of S4 guns it seems, which could be cool but again the price is a huge issue.

Just look at the new admech vehicle. It has a ton of guns and costs less than a rhino (which is probably one of the worst vehicles tho), yes i know it doesnt have fly and thats why I mentioned a rhino as a price point.

Very good point. But the Skorpius doesn't have Primaris Tax. Also, Fly helps prevent it from being surrounded so it can't be prevented from unloading its passengers.

I'm pretty sure it would be prevented from unloading its passengers if it was (a) surrounded and destroyed, or (b) surrounded, and then it moved in the movement phase so it was no longer surrounded, because vehicles can't move and then disembark troops.

Have people seen the new prices?

Yikes is all i say.

I haven't seen the prices but I can imagine. I mean, this company just released a basic tank for $100...so...

 Elbows wrote:
I haven't seen the prices but I can imagine. I mean, this company just released a basic tank for $100...so...

The prices for this first wave are a few pages back.
$30 for supplement, $40 for the nameds and the main codex.

 Elbows wrote:
I haven't seen the prices but I can imagine. I mean, this company just released a basic tank for $100...so...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXYrISNNEgI&t=313s

for your chapter of choice. 25£ for baseline codex and 17.50£ for the supplement, total new 42.50£ supposedly.

As a swiss that translates probably to 35 CHF and 25CHF so now 60 CHF...... which btw is an estimate on the lower end.


Feth that i take the non updated traits of CSM all day compared to that!

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
I haven't seen the prices but I can imagine. I mean, this company just released a basic tank for $100...so...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXYrISNNEgI&t=313s

for your chapter of choice. 25£ for baseline codex and 17.50£ for the supplement, total new 42.50£ supposedly.

As a swiss that translates probably to 35 CHF and 25CHF so now 60 CHF...... which btw is an estimate on the lower end.


Feth that i take the non updated traits of CSM all day compared to that!

Outside of special characters or wanting more stuff, you'll be able to run most lists with the base book I assume.

Dudeface wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
I haven't seen the prices but I can imagine. I mean, this company just released a basic tank for $100...so...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXYrISNNEgI&t=313s

for your chapter of choice. 25£ for baseline codex and 17.50£ for the supplement, total new 42.50£ supposedly.

As a swiss that translates probably to 35 CHF and 25CHF so now 60 CHF...... which btw is an estimate on the lower end.


Feth that i take the non updated traits of CSM all day compared to that!

Outside of special characters or wanting more stuff, you'll be able to run most lists with the base book I assume.

Just like the CSM warlord traits for psykers specifically hidden behind shadowspear?

Not sure if overly optimistic there.

 Alpharius wrote:

Obispudkenobi wrote:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
We’ve always known that the scale was screwed. Put some of the £6 three pack marines next to a plastic guardsman and tell me that that marine is seven feet tall.

I always assumed because they are game pieces rather than scale models it wasn't a thing, i mean look at Monopoly, nobody ever complains that the dog and the boat are the wrong scale .

...because it doesn't really matter there, whereas it does matter in wargames like 40K.

Nah, it's just another thing the community has found to moan about, they are little plastic space dudes fighting other little plastic space dudes, scale really isn't important, this is a world of make believe not accurate scale model making.

Obispudkenobi wrote:
they are little plastic space dudes fighting other little plastic space dudes, scale really isn't important, this is a world of make believe not accurate scale model making.

I disagree, to a degree. This is a world of make believe where realism and accuracy aren't necessary, but it does need to feel right, or people get irritated. If it's too awkwardly proportioned or out of scale, then it definitely can matter, since many players will be irritated by the lame execution.

I clicked the youtube link thinking there would be an actual price chart.

My disappointment that it's just some angry dude. :(

I’ve seen people are a bit unhappy with the “nerf” to Crimson Fists. I’m not sure it’s actually that bad, for two reasons.

Firstly, repulsors (and other vehicles, I guess) now get +1 to hit against units of 10 or more. To me, that is far more impactful than whether characters get +1 to hit all the time. Repulsors have many times more guns on them than characters do, and now a plasma executioner can overcharge without any worries against big units (though it probably doesn’t need to).

Second (and to be fair this is a much smaller benefit) it means there’s less need to go for MSU. There are some good reasons to want to run big units (e.g. Vigilus strats) and now a unit of 10 intercessors can get +1 to hit against a unit of 15, rather than 20.

The units that suffer from this change are really the 3-man squads like inceptors, aggressors and eliminators. But these guys gain a lot from having bolter drill built in all the time, so it’s really fine. Instead of getting a hit on a 2 they will get an extra hit on a 6, resulting in the same result – and they still hit on 2s against units of 8+.

Ultimately it means that adding one guy to a CF unit will now need the target unit to have one extra guy in to get your bonus, whereas in the old version every marine you added required two more in the target.

Also, I was part way through scratch-building a fire raptor. I might have to pick that up again. Those quad heavy bolters are looking very good right now. On the other hand I might just go for a brigade and get a load of guys on the board. Primaris might be good enough for that to be sensible now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh. New unit preview up: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/07/space-marines-preview-new-unitsgw-homepage-post-1/

Holy crap new units and doctrines are back!

Eliminators became a must have. Impulsor is a razorback, stalker, whirlwind, all rolled into one. Depending on cost the new incursors seem great, same with the inviktor dread.

Deathwatch get explicitly fethed over again. Good times.

Obispudkenobi wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Obispudkenobi wrote:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
We’ve always known that the scale was screwed. Put some of the £6 three pack marines next to a plastic guardsman and tell me that that marine is seven feet tall.

I always assumed because they are game pieces rather than scale models it wasn't a thing, i mean look at Monopoly, nobody ever complains that the dog and the boat are the wrong scale .

...because it doesn't really matter there, whereas it does matter in wargames like 40K.

Nah, it's just another thing the community has found to moan about, they are little plastic space dudes fighting other little plastic space dudes, scale really isn't important, this is a world of make believe not accurate scale model making.

People have moaned about this since the days of Rogue Trader, in the past they typically stuck to historical wargames. I think its a valid thing to "moan about" when GW sells everything as a premium product. It might not matter to you but in the scale miniature hobbies the consistency and accuracy of scale are one of the major factors in the quality of the miniatures. Not everyone games, point of fact GW asserts about 60% of their customers never game at all. So the miniatures and their quality mean more to more people than its use as a game piece. I can understand why you might not have cared or noticed but it comes to the forefront now because GW did a major overhaul where scale and consistency, at least between different space marine units, was seriously considered. Within the Space Marines they "fixed" the scale and made them more humanly proportioned. Wanting to see that fix and the same consideration applied across the entire 40k range is reasonable.

Its splitting hairs, but I see a difference between moaning about what was done and what should be done; I think for me that's where I draw the line between worthwhile moaning and not. So its a case of how people parse this issue.

When it comes to Guardsmen, their scale is screwed up and it was done intentionally. One of the GW designers went on record saying when they produced the catachans and cadians they intentionally oversized them to make painting the eyes easier, given how many would have to be painted. At the same time we know what properly scaled guardsmen should look like, FW's are well scaled and proportioned relative to a space marine; GW proper had done these limited edition cadians standing 'at-ease' that were smaller than the plastics by properly scaled next to the space marines. So it could be done. GW just chooses not to and its really helped drive alot of business to 3rd party manufacturers.

Las Fusil:



there's a ton of other stuff in here. Doctrines that give you an extra -1 ap on your guns are pretty major, as an across-the-board ability.

And you can get out of an impulsor after it moves. It has a capacity of 6, so (if it can carry them) flamer aggressors might actually have a way to be useful now. Can't charge after this special disembark though.

It might be more useful for letting hellblasters rapid fire on turn 1. To be honest hellblasters couldn't have asked for a better transport than this - I guess unless it let them fire from onboard.

Sterling191 wrote:
Deathwatch get explicitly fethed over again. Good times.

To what are you referring?

Mandragola wrote:
Las Fusil:



there's a ton of other stuff in here. Doctrines that give you an extra -1 ap on your guns are pretty major, as an across-the-board ability.

And you can get out of an impulsor after it moves. It has a capacity of 6, so (if it can carry them) flamer aggressors might actually have a way to be useful now. Can't charge after this special disembark though.

It might be more useful for letting hellblasters rapid fire on turn 1. To be honest hellblasters couldn't have asked for a better transport than this - I guess unless it let them fire from onboard.

Tactical doctrine hellblasters jump out of an Impulsor in rapid fire range.
Also Reivers might be good with the assault doctrine. Shoot with pistol and stab with extra ap

 aka_mythos wrote:
To what are you referring?

No access to doctrines, and no ability to take any of the new units.

Sterling191 wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
To what are you referring?

No access to doctrines, and no ability to take any of the new units.

I think those doctrines, and a combination of bunch of the other stuff are going to create a lot of unintended consequences. I feel like they've really given basic Space Marines so much with this codex that it makes hard to imagine the Non-codex marines can even come close to competing. Why play Deathwatch when there are a slew of rules that can get you pretty close to the same abilities and probably for less, while giving you a lot more options and flexibility?

the doctrines! ok now marines are cooking.

Basically just spend the whole game with -4 lascannons... ok thanks.

So combined with the Chapter Tactic from yesterday giving +3" Range, does anyone want 11" Ap -1 Flamers?

Sterling191 wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
To what are you referring?

No access to doctrines, and no ability to take any of the new units.

Dude, DW are specialists with their own abililties. They are still solid and one of the better marine armies. SS/SB with SIA still solid.

 bullyboy wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
To what are you referring?

No access to doctrines, and no ability to take any of the new units.

Dude, DW are specialists with their own abililties. They are still solid and one of the better marine armies. SS/SB with SIA still solid.

Not anymore. They got almost invalidated thanks to +3" range with 6+++ FNP guys that use Tactical Doctrine from turn 2 onwards...

 aka_mythos wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
To what are you referring?

No access to doctrines, and no ability to take any of the new units.

I think those doctrines, and a combination of bunch of the other stuff are going to create a lot of unintended consequences. I feel like they've really given basic Space Marines so much with this codex that it makes hard to imagine the Non-codex marines can even come close to competing. Why play Deathwatch when there are a slew of rules that can get you pretty close to the same abilities and probably for less, while giving you a lot more options and flexibility?

Because you like the fluff?

bullyboy wrote:
Dude, DW are specialists with their own abililties. They are still solid and one of the better marine armies. SS/SB with SIA still solid.

Did you ever consider for a moment that maybe I dont want to play nothing but shields and stormbolter gak? Or maybe I want to have Primaris on the table? This isnt even about competitive versus casual options as i cannot even play the units

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Not anymore. They got almost invalidated thanks to +3" range with 6+++ FNP guys that use Tactical Doctrine from turn 2 onwards...

The combinations one can put together with the new options make Deathwatch look like stodgy old caricatures of Ultramarines, bitching about how nobody follows the codex anymore.

Sterling191 wrote:

bullyboy wrote:
Dude, DW are specialists with their own abililties. They are still solid and one of the better marine armies. SS/SB with SIA still solid.

Did you ever consider for a moment that maybe I dont want to play nothing but shields and stormbolter gak? Or maybe I want to have Primaris on the table?

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Not anymore. They got almost invalidated thanks to +3" range with 6+++ FNP guys that use Tactical Doctrine from turn 2 onwards...

The combinations one can put together with the new options make Deathwatch look like stodgy old caricatures of Ultramarines, bitching about how nobody follows the codex anymore.

Not only DW, every single non-codex Marine chapter got rekt