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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Tiberius501 wrote:
Why. In the utter, absolute hell balls. Did Boltstorm Gauntlets. On Aggressors. Go down to being CHEAPER than the Flamestorm Gauntlets? Why did they go down at all?!

GW are absolute mad ladz haha, not only are Aggressors buffed and already insane, especially the obnoxious UM ones, but they got cheaper? ...


They didnt. Thats the Gravis Captain weapon. Agressors use the Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets item, which didnt change.
   
Made in us
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine



Ottawa

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Why. In the utter, absolute hell balls. Did Boltstorm Gauntlets. On Aggressors. Go down to being CHEAPER than the Flamestorm Gauntlets? Why did they go down at all?!

GW are absolute mad ladz haha, not only are Aggressors buffed and already insane, especially the obnoxious UM ones, but they got cheaper? ...


They didn't.

The single boltstorm gauntlet for the Gravis captain went down in price.

The auto boltstorm gauntlets for Aggressors are the same as they've been for awhile. 12 points for the gauntlets, 4 points for the fragstorm, and 21 points a body comes to the same exact cost they are today.

Flamestorm Aggressors are now 2 ppm cheaper than the bolt ones.
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph






Ah thank god, I read the wrong thing. Thanks for correcting me, I was about to whine to my friends and give them the wrong idea haha.
   
Made in us
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine



Ottawa

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Ah thank god, I read the wrong thing. Thanks for correcting me, I was about to whine to my friends and give them the wrong idea haha.


Haha, I hear that.

Though I'm not sure if you noticed - all Aggressors went up 1 attack and 1 wound. So if that produces some salt in your bloodstream, you can still begin whining to your buds

And starting turn 2, Ultramarine Aggressors can move around (but not advance) and still benefit from double shooting.

Even on overwatch.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/13 00:20:14


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 Asherian Command wrote:
Tactical Space Marines are 1pt cheaper which means they might be worth taking now!


OP now.
Meta destroying.
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph






Lemondish wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
Ah thank god, I read the wrong thing. Thanks for correcting me, I was about to whine to my friends and give them the wrong idea haha.


Haha, I hear that.

Though I'm not sure if you noticed - all Aggressors went up 1 attack and 1 wound. So if that produces some salt in your bloodstream, you can still begin whining to your buds

And starting turn 2, Ultramarine Aggressors can move around (but not advance) and still benefit from double shooting.

Even on overwatch.


Yeah that’s why I was getting so triggered haha. They were buffed and then I thought they also got cheaper. UM Aggressors are obnoxious.
   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

Can GW settle on a price for the damned Auxillary Grenade Launcher for Intercessors?! First it was free. Then it was one point. Then it was free again. Now it is back to being one point.

5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts 
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





The Eternity Gate

Mandragola wrote:
Soneone on b+c ousted this doc of all the points, and changes from before. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vZnKuZarvBT17JeRdRcHPWkI8fq4770HrbBosCh8JCo/htmlview#gid=0

Apparently assault centurions now have 4 wounds, 3 attacks and cost 52 points each with two flamers. You get a ton of dakka out of these, then a squad of 3 seems to have 13 S10 ap-4 D3 attacks with no hit modifier. They do 17.33 wounds to a knight on the charge, without using rerolls.

So here’s a thought. What about a land raider (lol?) with three of these and maybe Pedro in? Or just loads of them. Crusaders with squads of five in, that sort of thing.


Probably easier out of a stormraven.

Also, codex contemptor dreads are stupidly cheap. Khres builds are down to 132 by my count which is insane.

01001000 01100001 01101001 01101100 00100000 01101111 01110101 01110010 00100000 01001110 01100101 01100011 01110010 01101111 01101110 00100000 01101111 01110110 01100101 01110010 01101100 01101111 01110010 01100100 01110011 00100001  
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





barring a sudden suprise in the future supplements ultramarines deff seem the way to go to run agressors

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Can GW settle on a price for the damned Auxillary Grenade Launcher for Intercessors?! First it was free. Then it was one point. Then it was free again. Now it is back to being one point.

Look. It is no easy. Basically the whole meta depends on the correct balancing of this versatile and powerful weapon.

   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

 Crimson wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Can GW settle on a price for the damned Auxillary Grenade Launcher for Intercessors?! First it was free. Then it was one point. Then it was free again. Now it is back to being one point.

Look. It is no easy. Basically the whole meta depends on the correct balancing of this versatile and powerful weapon.
At least the ten points I am saving from my two Primaris LTs going down in price helps make up for the apparent 1 pt increase in each of my six Intercessor Squads. But honestly, the AGL did go up in effectiveness due to the Devastator Doctrine becoming AP-2 on Turn 1.

5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts 
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




 Hulksmash wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
Anyone who can understand that stuff, how much does a fully kitted Invictor War Suit cost in points? Sorry to keep asking, just won’t get my hands on the codex for a little while, and not sure when BattleScribe will update.


Looks like 136.

Base - 90
Autocannon - 20
Iron Hails - 6 (12)
Heavy Bolter - 10
Fragstorm - 4


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Last poster is right about the flamer one. It's 5pts cheaper.


Man, that's a tough edgecase right there. With 13 wounds and the IH CT it's on the cusp of being a competitive option in a mech heavy build, but I'm not sure that for 131 points it has the damage output to justify the investment.


 
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph






ERJAK wrote:
 Hulksmash wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
Anyone who can understand that stuff, how much does a fully kitted Invictor War Suit cost in points? Sorry to keep asking, just won’t get my hands on the codex for a little while, and not sure when BattleScribe will update.


Looks like 136.

Base - 90
Autocannon - 20
Iron Hails - 6 (12)
Heavy Bolter - 10
Fragstorm - 4


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Last poster is right about the flamer one. It's 5pts cheaper.


Man, that's a tough edgecase right there. With 13 wounds and the IH CT it's on the cusp of being a competitive option in a mech heavy build, but I'm not sure that for 131 points it has the damage output to justify the investment.


Oh actually, what about the rocket pod thing it has on it's back? How much does that cost?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Thats the Fragstorm launcher.
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph






Oh I thought it had a missile launcher variant.

EDIT: Nah I'm just dumb. Don't mind me guys, I got up early and my brain operates at about -54.6% If I get up before 1pm.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/13 01:56:54


 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 TedNugent wrote:
Based on the review by WintersSEO, they have gone completely overboard with the special rules.

All marine units apparently have +1 attack in the first round of combat in addition to bolter drill and have the ability to choose whether to withdraw from combat.

I'm legitimately scared to run any kind of Ork unit other than Meganobs or a 30 blob into most primaris units. That is outrageous close combat ability. Combined with bolter drill and the tactical doctrines allowing for -1 AP everywhere, I could see entire blobs of orks being vaporized by basic boltgun fire. The resulting close combat ability from Ork boys would be pretty embarrassing against a 3 attack unit of basic intercessors with 2 wounds each. Trukk boys RIP. I wouldnt dare run 12 boys into even a primaris combat squad.

When is this smorgasbord of special rules coming to Dark Angels? I know were going to have access to the new primaris models but I want that free +1 attack. Too easy.


Well orks were codex:tellyporta when they came and are even more so these days. Days of footslogging into enemy lines are loooong gone. You get 37 orks vs 20 tacticals that move and shoot 40 shots hitting on 3+ and kills on 4+. If they charge that's another 42 attacks hitting on 3+, wounding on 4+ and you get 6+ save. Literally only thing that allows you to have any shot is tellyporta/da jump into combat. On foot you pretty much have to get close enough to let them charge least they simply back away 6" and shoot 40 bolter shots more.

Feels like best option will be actually go for >30"(>36" against primaris heavy army) range shooting for first 2-3 turns followed by T3 deep strikes against hopefully softened up. Any boyz on board will simply vaporize even more efficiently than they have before(I regularly lose 60+ greenskin per turn vs unoptimized marine list. Record vs unoptimized list was 106 greenskin turn 1 before I got to do anything...taught me to not leave anything important visible though all the grots would be dying anyway as I can't hide out of LOS EVERYTHING).

Pity but that footslogging across the board is dead was obvious from first leaks of ork codex.

Mek guns, lootas, ssag. Anything that can shoot from far and can cause 2 damage and preferably at least -1 to save is going to be needed. Rushing into combat is just going to get vaporized. Weird idea that orks are more of shooty army but that's GW's idea of orks for you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Jidmah wrote:
 TedNugent wrote:
What's to stop them from just plowing into you using bolter drill. 30 inch range, tactical doctrines -2 AP, multiple shots if they stand still, rerolls to hit and wound. Gg bro. Even an intercessor squad is bleeding boy units hard. Not counting scary stuff like aggressors.

The sole difference to the game I had two weeks ago is and additional -1 AP against a unit that has a 6+ armor save.

Everything you just listed has been there since the bolter beta rules. Nothing changed!


Marines didn't move and shoot twice with bolters before though last I checked. They can do that now. At least they had to camp static for two shots before. Now if you try to close in they can move away and if you try to stay far they move and fire twice anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, that extra AP is wasted against boys. Even at no AP it doesn't matter, because 6+ saves suck.


a) it's not even the -1 thing that is the big thing. Remember doctrine isn't just -1 AP...
b) it's still 20% more casualties for basic bolters. 6 kills vs 5.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/08/13 06:42:00


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut





Netherlands

I have a drop pod full of Sternguard that are liking what they're hearing.

I also have an unpainted Devastator squad with Grav Cannons who are shuffling closer to the paint table.

In fact I have an entire Imperial Fists army that is being cautiously optimistic of being let out of the carry case again!

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Does anyone have any info on the supposed Reiver Lieutenant? Couldn't see it listed on that google doc.

Is it just the Phobos Lieutenant with combat blade and bolt carbine? With the unit then having the grav chute as a wargear option?
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






Kdash wrote:
Does anyone have any info on the supposed Reiver Lieutenant? Couldn't see it listed on that google doc.

Is it just the Phobos Lieutenant with combat blade and bolt carbine? With the unit then having the grav chute as a wargear option?

Yes, except it seems you can't have grav-chute if you take the Reiver weapons so he is completely useless.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Crimson wrote:
Kdash wrote:
Does anyone have any info on the supposed Reiver Lieutenant? Couldn't see it listed on that google doc.

Is it just the Phobos Lieutenant with combat blade and bolt carbine? With the unit then having the grav chute as a wargear option?

Yes, except it seems you can't have grav-chute if you take the Reiver weapons so he is completely useless.


I'm not 100% sure, but, i intent to test putting him in an Impulsor with 5 combat Reivers. Jump him out 1st turn after moving to provide re-rolls for the Vanguard stuff holding the centre of the table, and then allowing the Reivers to use their grenades turn 2 to prevent overwatch.

It's probably 252 points poorly spent, but, an interesting concept.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




You have a very broad definition of "interesting concept" apparently.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You have a very broad definition of "interesting concept" apparently.

The concept is interesting.
it's just that it is easily more replicable and better done with scouts, or any other chaff unit.
and i doubt spending 1/8th of a 2000 pts army fo that one gimick to be great.
but yeah the concepts there.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/13 09:34:48


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Not Online!!! wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You have a very broad definition of "interesting concept" apparently.

The concept is interesting.
it's just that it is easily more replicable and better done with scouts, or any other chaff unit.
and i diubt spending 1/8th of a 2000 pts army fo that one gimick to be great.
but yeah the concepts there.


I think it’s all going to be about options. 5 Reivers and a 4++ Impulsor rocks in at 183 points. All going to depend on what you want those 183 points to do. The Lieutenant is likely going to be in your army anyway, at 62+ points, so we can ignore that investment cost.

I guess it’ll depend on where you setup your early game gunline. If it is mid table using the Warsuits etc, then, getting re-roll 1’s to wound up the table 1st turn is handy. If you’re backlining, then it’s pretty redundant and you can just go for another squad of 10 Intercessors or use the points towards another Repulsor Executioner.

The thought process currently being that – if you’re going 2nd, the scouts will die as an easy first strike and achieve nothing, but the Reivers/Impulsor will likely survive due to there just being more important threats on the table.
On the flip side, if you go first, it’s 34 bolter shots vs re-roll 1’s to wound and positioning for your turn 2. Again, depends on the rest of your army.

My current thought process is leading me down a turn 2 punch with high ROF at -1 or -2ap and charges. The only issue is, as I think with most Marine lists… Is that not having 1st turn could be problematic.

I think there are a lot of small and possibly workable, synergies in this book, though it might take time to work them out and will likely require focus on them when building the list to make the whole thing work.
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Kdash wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You have a very broad definition of "interesting concept" apparently.

The concept is interesting.
it's just that it is easily more replicable and better done with scouts, or any other chaff unit.
and i diubt spending 1/8th of a 2000 pts army fo that one gimick to be great.
but yeah the concepts there.


I think it’s all going to be about options. 5 Reivers and a 4++ Impulsor rocks in at 183 points. All going to depend on what you want those 183 points to do. The Lieutenant is likely going to be in your army anyway, at 62+ points, so we can ignore that investment cost.

I guess it’ll depend on where you setup your early game gunline. If it is mid table using the Warsuits etc, then, getting re-roll 1’s to wound up the table 1st turn is handy. If you’re backlining, then it’s pretty redundant and you can just go for another squad of 10 Intercessors or use the points towards another Repulsor Executioner.

The thought process currently being that – if you’re going 2nd, the scouts will die as an easy first strike and achieve nothing, but the Reivers/Impulsor will likely survive due to there just being more important threats on the table.
On the flip side, if you go first, it’s 34 bolter shots vs re-roll 1’s to wound and positioning for your turn 2. Again, depends on the rest of your army.

My current thought process is leading me down a turn 2 punch with high ROF at -1 or -2ap and charges. The only issue is, as I think with most Marine lists… Is that not having 1st turn could be problematic.

I think there are a lot of small and possibly workable, synergies in this book, though it might take time to work them out and will likely require focus on them when building the list to make the whole thing work.


Yes, that could work.
First turn is for most armies an issue though, but with the investment in pts for Marines (and scouts) it seriously hurts if you don't get it.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph






I have a question. Is the War Suit worth taking over a second Redemptor?
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






tneva82 wrote:
Marines didn't move and shoot twice with bolters before though last I checked. They can do that now. At least they had to camp static for two shots before. Now if you try to close in they can move away and if you try to stay far they move and fire twice anyway.


I feel like I'm missing something. Is there a stratagem allowing them shot shoot twice at full range now?

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Jidmah wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Marines didn't move and shoot twice with bolters before though last I checked. They can do that now. At least they had to camp static for two shots before. Now if you try to close in they can move away and if you try to stay far they move and fire twice anyway.


I feel like I'm missing something. Is there a stratagem allowing them shot shoot twice at full range now?


Referred to ability to shoot rapid fire weapons for 2 shots at will. Move, short range, irrelevant since marines can now have ability to always shoot as if stationary. Those 10 tacticals will be pumping out 20 shots regardless of do they move or not. 20 tacticals will pump out 40 shots. 37 ork boyz(same points) will never reach on foot the marines facing 40 shots at that hit on 3+ and kill on 4+. And all their heavy weapons etc are also moving and shooting without penalty. They don't even need assault weapons anymore to move and shoot at will.

Only thing that keeps ork boyz relevant is ability to deep strike. Other than that marines will simply pepper them to death. Well not that they could before but at least before marines were either static or lost firepower. Now they aren't static and can move around with no penalties.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/13 10:08:00


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Jidmah wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Marines didn't move and shoot twice with bolters before though last I checked. They can do that now. At least they had to camp static for two shots before. Now if you try to close in they can move away and if you try to stay far they move and fire twice anyway.


I feel like I'm missing something. Is there a stratagem allowing them shot shoot twice at full range now?


I believe there is a strat in the Ultramarines supplement that allows a unit to fire as if it remained stationary in it’s preceding movement phase.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Kdash wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Marines didn't move and shoot twice with bolters before though last I checked. They can do that now. At least they had to camp static for two shots before. Now if you try to close in they can move away and if you try to stay far they move and fire twice anyway.


I feel like I'm missing something. Is there a stratagem allowing them shot shoot twice at full range now?


I believe there is a strat in the Ultramarines supplement that allows a unit to fire as if it remained stationary in it’s preceding movement phase.


No stratagem. That's their ability as long as they don't soup up with non-space marines.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/13 10:08:31


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph






Kdash wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Marines didn't move and shoot twice with bolters before though last I checked. They can do that now. At least they had to camp static for two shots before. Now if you try to close in they can move away and if you try to stay far they move and fire twice anyway.


I feel like I'm missing something. Is there a stratagem allowing them shot shoot twice at full range now?


I believe there is a strat in the Ultramarines supplement that allows a unit to fire as if it remained stationary in it’s preceding movement phase.


Not a strat, it’s an extra passive buff the Ultramarines have as long as Tactical Doctrine is in effect. Pretty damn good, as it affects everyone, including tanks like the Executioner, or their now obnoxious Aggressors.
   
 
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