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in fairness ALL Marines need to be given rules that enchourages an agressive push forward and get in your face mentaluity (hence the shock assault rule) and some loyalists are as agressive about pushing up fast into melee as chaos are (space wolves and caracadorns come to mind immediatly)

I can already picture the white scars lists with squadrons of 3 speeder with flamers.

Move, flame, charge into something.
Next turn, retreat, flame, charge into something.

So much disruption.

Any thoughts on the Black Templars stuff?

Spoletta wrote:
I can already picture the white scars lists with squadrons of 3 speeder with flamers.

Move, flame, charge into something.
Next turn, retreat, flame, charge into something.

So much disruption.

yeah white scars could be a lot of fun, I'm eager to see what their supplement has too

dapperbandit wrote:
Any thoughts on the Black Templars stuff?

Deep strike melee is pretty reliable with the changes. Could see some throw away 5 man assult squads with a thunder hammer being usefull for deeping in and distrupting. I would not tool up proper death stars for it since the chance of failure is still ~30-40%

I dont use crusader squads much but i suppose the 1A power sword or fist becomes less laughable now.

Also emperors champion will be even better with 1 more attack.

The mortal wound defend is great buff but nothing you can build any new tactics around.

Do you think that with shock assault the GK strike squads became finally worthy of a transport?

I think it's worth saying that a very reliable source I know (obviously can't say who) has told me that there are some stupid powerful stratagems for the UM in the supplement, so don't count them out the running just yet. Although all Marines are getting a bunch of new and powerful stratagems per supplement, as well as new relics and psychic powers so it won't just be UM benefitting.

(Yes I know an unverified source is worth nothing but you'll see in two weeks time, I'm just saying don't impulse sell your UM army on ebay)

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
I think it's worth saying that a very reliable source I know (obviously can't say who) has told me that there are some stupid powerful stratagems for the UM in the supplement, so don't count them out the running just yet. Although all Marines are getting 16 stratagems per supplement, as well as new relics and a psychic discipline so it won't just be UM benefitting.

(Yes I know an unverified source is worth nothing but you'll see in two weeks time, I'm just saying don't impulse sell your UM army on ebay)

wou;dn't suprise me, as I said, if I was designing he ultramarines I'd make them a very stratagium focused chapter

BrianDavion wrote:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
I think it's worth saying that a very reliable source I know (obviously can't say who) has told me that there are some stupid powerful stratagems for the UM in the supplement, so don't count them out the running just yet. Although all Marines are getting 16 stratagems per supplement, as well as new relics and a psychic discipline so it won't just be UM benefitting.

(Yes I know an unverified source is worth nothing but you'll see in two weeks time, I'm just saying don't impulse sell your UM army on ebay)

wou;dn't suprise me, as I said, if I was designing he ultramarines I'd make them a very stratagium focused chapter

Wonder what they'll do with the Imperial Fists one, since it'll include CF and Templars too. Hopefully they get a good number of strats each.

As a BT player, I only see positives for the incoming changes. Nothing to complain about here. Feels very fitting.

If we could get some drop pod buffs, you could start seeing those back on the table for the Crusader Squads, but I won't hold my breath.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Primaris version of the EC - leaving both opinions available since technically an EC can be any SM in the chapter.

Overall, gotta wait until the book is released for final verdict.

Spoletta wrote:
Do you think that with shock assault the GK strike squads became finally worthy of a transport?

Which Transport? I think one of the problems with an assault unit in a transport is they can't leave the transport until the beginning of the movement phase. At least, not voluntarily. It would have been nicer if they would have kept it as you can embark/disembark before or after moving, but you can't do both. So you're losing a lot of time with an assault unit. At least a shooting unit can hop out and shoot and most units can't run away while you wait a turn to disembark.

I guess that's a long way of saying, if your Strike Squad was worth transporting before it still is now, if it wasn't before it probably still isn't.

My second biggest army is Iron hands. they hav enot seen a lot of play since the ork codex drop. I am pretty excited for the new codex though and last night pulled em out of the case for touchup paint and repairs to models as needed. I also never based them properly so mayeb if I do start using them more I will get inspired to do the snow themed bases I have been meaning to do for ages.

Its funny that so many here are either loving or hating the new traits, yet no one is really winning games with traits, its always the strats that are making/breaking armies. (With exception of Alaitoc flyers).
Most of the traits are small buffs, but the army won't be fully assessed until we see the strats.

Not Online!!! wrote:
I still find it hillarious that Chaos just got an update, that could've easily allready got that at the same time as the regular marines.

Albeit i am sure GW will release a book called Legions of chaos, a supplement, with all the updated stuff in it, after you allready probably have bought Codex 2.0....

Feth me.

Read the entire article, chicken little.

BA/DA/SW and CSM will get the following in downloadable PDFs: Their own enhanced Chapter/Legion tactics and the Shock Assault ability.

All is well citizen, return to sleep.

BrianDavion wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

They already had that ability through Captains and Lts they were already camping nearby.

which means less reliance on camping out near captains and Lts which allows for a more mobile focus on board control. I mean how many captains and Lts does your average list have?

Depends the list. However the main codex doesn't have a Slamguinus equivalent so what board control are your HQ units really doing when in the back, especially when our other HQ choices aren't good to choose anyway? The answer is NONE.

The camping was implied in the first place because of this and the characters are unlikely to die from Snipers or some garbage like that.

Sooooooooo long story short, if the tactic wasn't good in the first place, and the defensive trait isn't as good as the Raven Guard or Iron Hands, then why is it any good now? It isn't. At least it isn't as bad as Crimson Fists or Blood Ravens but it's probably bottom 3.

I dont understand not moving your capt/lt with the troops. I mean, I get why camping is a thing and use it sometimes but not going in planning on doing it.

how many captains and Lts does a list on average have? how many infantry squads do you have? having the freedom to move that tac squad with a lascanon elsewhere without losing a re-roll on the lascanon is a handy bit of tactical flexability. not nesscarily god tier no but it's certainly got uses

...which they could already do.

So if it wasn't good then, why is it suddenly good now with a worse defensive bonus compared to Iron Hands and Raven Guard?

I'm quite curious to see what changes, if any, the Dark Angels get.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I still find it hillarious that Chaos just got an update, that could've easily allready got that at the same time as the regular marines.

Albeit i am sure GW will release a book called Legions of chaos, a supplement, with all the updated stuff in it, after you allready probably have bought Codex 2.0....

Feth me.

Read the entire article, chicken little.

BA/DA/SW and CSM will get the following in downloadable PDFs: Their own enhanced Chapter/Legion tactics and the Shock Assault ability.

All is well citizen, return to sleep.

And you lack basic reading comprehension so what?
I stated they could have released it at the same time or propperly in dex 2.0
I also stated they will release another book to nickle and dime us.

Not Online!!! wrote:


And you lack basic reading comprehension so what?
I stated they could have released it at the same time or propperly in dex 2.0
I also stated they will release another book to nickle and dime us.

Got it, you're determined to be indignant, sorry to try to dampen your righteous outrage, continue screaming at your monitor.

 Karthicus wrote:
As a BT player, I only see positives for the incoming changes. Nothing to complain about here. Feels very fitting.

If we could get some drop pod buffs, you could start seeing those back on the table for the Crusader Squads, but I won't hold my breath.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Primaris version of the EC - leaving both opinions available since technically an EC can be any SM in the chapter.

Overall, gotta wait until the book is released for final verdict.

It would be nice if things coming out of a drop pod could deploy within 8"

 Fifty wrote:


It would be nice if things coming out of a drop pod could deploy within 8"

GW won't do that, because being able to reliable charge from deep strike is a no-no

 Fifty wrote:

It would be nice if things coming out of a drop pod could deploy within 8"

My fix, give the drop pod the rule:

Friendly units within 6" add 1 to their charge rolls and do not count as having moved for the purposes of shooting with Heavy Weapons.

Or something along those lines. Important it's an aura, and that it helps the deployed unit get into combat. It's important it's an aura so the drop pod stays relevant after it lands, and makes your opponent have to consider whether it might be worth using resources to destroy it.

The easiest solution for Drop pods is to give them an Infiltrate deployment option (like Scouts) in addition to a deep strike option. That way you can use them to "drop" in units on Turn 1 even in Matched play

-

As a salamander player I'm very happy with what I've seen so far. Outside of power armour is -1ap that common? I know things like heavy bolters, bolt rifles and assault cannons are pretty common in marine armies but how about xenos/chaos?
From my perspective as a craftworlds player I don't think we have much in the way of -1ap damage weapons.

kingheff wrote:
As a salamander player I'm very happy with what I've seen so far. Outside of power armour is -1ap that common? I know things like heavy bolters, bolt rifles and assault cannons are pretty common in marine armies but how about xenos/chaos?
From my perspective as a craftworlds player I don't think we have much in the way of -1ap damage weapons.

Yeah, Eldar/DE pretty much go from AP-0 straight to AP-2+. I can't really think of any commonly used Ap-1 weapons there.
Necron Warriors have Ap-1 weapons, so there's that.

But in general, I thing the most AP-1 weapons are indeed Marines

-

Drop pods could be useful if they allowed you to deepstrike up to 3" from enemy units and it's cost considerably reduced to 35pts. Basically a drop pods should be adding a danger close deepstrike option.

 Galef wrote:

kingheff wrote:
As a salamander player I'm very happy with what I've seen so far. Outside of power armour is -1ap that common? I know things like heavy bolters, bolt rifles and assault cannons are pretty common in marine armies but how about xenos/chaos?
From my perspective as a craftworlds player I don't think we have much in the way of -1ap damage weapons.

Yeah, Eldar/DE pretty much go from AP-0 straight to AP-2+. I can't really think of any commonly used Ap-1 weapons there.
Necron Warriors have Ap-1 weapons, so there's that.

But in general, I thing the most AP-1 weapons are indeed Marines

-

Kellermorphs.

 bullyboy wrote:
Its funny that so many here are either loving or hating the new traits, yet no one is really winning games with traits, its always the strats that are making/breaking armies. (With exception of Alaitoc flyers).
Most of the traits are small buffs, but the army won't be fully assessed until we see the strats.

All of the traits are great except ultra marines since they now apply to vehicals.White scars is kinda meh but it's really good on a lot of units that just got a big buff for +1 attack on the charge. It could be amazing. Ultras by comparison basically get nothing out of this. It is kind of a travesty. Just because Ultras were the best choice in 8th ed marines codex they were still one of the worst armies in the entire game. They should not be getting shafted like this. Also I disagree - free stats do win games.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Its funny that so many here are either loving or hating the new traits, yet no one is really winning games with traits, its always the strats that are making/breaking armies. (With exception of Alaitoc flyers).
Most of the traits are small buffs, but the army won't be fully assessed until we see the strats.

All of the traits are great except ultra marines since they now apply to vehicals.White scars is kinda meh but it's really good on a lot of units that just got a big buff for +1 attack on the charge. It could be amazing. Ultras by comparison basically get nothing out of this. It is kind of a travesty. Just because Ultras were the best choice in 8th ed marines codex they were still one of the worst armies in the entire game. They should not be getting shafted like this. Also I disagree - free stats do win games.

I think we need to hold judgement. Falling back and shooting with your vehicle is decent and UMs will undoubtedly get some of the best stratagems. They also have Bobby-G, so there will still be plenty of reason to take them.

-

On reflection the Raven Guard trait changes don't really effect me at all. We always play CoD rules locally so my RGs were already constantly hugging cover (stacking up to -2 to be hit was too good to pass up) so nothing about how they deploy or advance changes at all.

Being able to look at Iron Hands or Imperial Fist without feeling like I'm shooting myself in the foot for doing it is nice though.

 Galef wrote:
I think we need to hold judgement. Falling back and shooting with your vehicle is decent and UMs will undoubtedly get some of the best stratagems. They also have Bobby-G, so there will still be plenty of reason to take them.

I agree, another part of the equation that's missing is the indication that Chaplains will be getting prayers. If it ends up working in a similar manner to Dark Apostles that will be a fairly significant paradigm shift (I know it was significant to my CSM lists at least). Assuming they get some reasonable facsimile of Benediction of Darkness and/or Warpsight Plea, I think the calculus changes a bit.