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 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Galef wrote:
I think we need to hold judgement. Falling back and shooting with your vehicle is decent and UMs will undoubtedly get some of the best stratagems. They also have Bobby-G, so there will still be plenty of reason to take them.

I agree, another part of the equation that's missing is the indication that Chaplains will be getting prayers. If it ends up working in a similar manner to Dark Apostles that will be a fairly significant paradigm shift (I know it was significant to my CSM lists at least). Assuming they get some reasonable facsimile of Benediction of Darkness and/or Warpsight Plea, I think the calculus changes a bit.

Where is that coming from?

It’s mentioned in the WarCom article that chaplains are getting an additional force multiplier. The Dark apostle analogy is the natural first inference.

 buddha wrote:
Drop pods could be useful if they allowed you to deepstrike up to 3" from enemy units and it's cost considerably reduced to 35pts. Basically a drop pods should be adding a danger close deepstrike option.

Non of this really implies danger though.

its just a bonus stacked on another bonus.

should cost MORE to get danger close. (it should be expensive to consistently get guys super close to the enemy. just like the skaven in aos. and they end up hurting them selves to get in close range for tons of mortal wound flamers)

or risk getting hamburger-ed when walking out. since you are popping out of a funnel.

also most people will just run flamers out the wazoo for easy immolation's.

Sterling191 wrote:
It’s mentioned in the WarCom article that chaplains are getting an additional force multiplier. The Dark apostle analogy is the natural first inference.

I believe in the initial reveal in the section they talk about data cards the say there's X faith cards

Yes, there are 7 "Litanies of battle"

 Desubot wrote:

 buddha wrote:
Drop pods could be useful if they allowed you to deepstrike up to 3" from enemy units and it's cost considerably reduced to 35pts. Basically a drop pods should be adding a danger close deepstrike option.

Non of this really implies danger though.

its just a bonus stacked on another bonus.

should cost MORE to get danger close. (it should be expensive to consistently get guys super close to the enemy. just like the skaven in aos. and they end up hurting them selves to get in close range for tons of mortal wound flamers)

or risk getting hamburger-ed when walking out. since you are popping out of a funnel.

also most people will just run flamers out the wazoo for easy immolation's.

Danger Close means too close to friendly units, so it's even more not-quite-the-right-word.

I think a Pod permitting Deep Strikes up close to the enemy would be a fine enough quality for it to have at it's current cost, but not at 35 points.

Successor Tactics are completely broken...you can mix and match rules of existing Chapters or even new ones

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


Danger Close means too close to friendly units, so it's even more not-quite-the-right-word.

I think a Pod permitting Deep Strikes up close to the enemy would be a fine enough quality for it to have at it's current cost, but not at 35 points.

at 35 points im having 7th flashbacks. i mean honestly though the drop pod does have problems but 35 points..

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Successor Tactics are completely broken...you can mix and match rules of existing Chapters or even new ones

Considering Marines are "subpar", giving them an edge should be fine. We'll see the best combo. Me, playing a DIY chapter, I'm happy.

CapRichard wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Successor Tactics are completely broken...you can mix and match rules of existing Chapters or even new ones

Considering Marines are "subpar", giving them an edge should be fine. We'll see the best combo. Me, playing a DIY chapter, I'm happy.

Sure, wanna fight a Marine model with +1 to Armour saves and 6+++ freely given by a chapter? Go for it!

 fraser1191 wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
It’s mentioned in the WarCom article that chaplains are getting an additional force multiplier. The Dark apostle analogy is the natural first inference.

I believe in the initial reveal in the section they talk about data cards the say there's X faith cards

Yes, there are 7 "Litanies of battle"

Got a link? Searching for WarCom seems to just give me US Army sites and some brake manufacturer.

On an unrelated note, holy fish paste:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/04/pre-order-preview-the-adeptus-astartes/

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/06/space-marines-preview-create-your-own-chapter-tacticsgw-homepage-post-1/

 Desubot wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


Danger Close means too close to friendly units, so it's even more not-quite-the-right-word.

I think a Pod permitting Deep Strikes up close to the enemy would be a fine enough quality for it to have at it's current cost, but not at 35 points.

at 35 points im having 7th flashbacks. i mean honestly though the drop pod does have problems but 35 points..

You can deep strike units for a CP in this game. The ability to deepstrike is worth between 10-20 points at max.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

CapRichard wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Successor Tactics are completely broken...you can mix and match rules of existing Chapters or even new ones

Considering Marines are "subpar", giving them an edge should be fine. We'll see the best combo. Me, playing a DIY chapter, I'm happy.

Sure, wanna fight a Marine model with +1 to Armour saves and 6+++ freely given by a chapter? Go for it!

I wonder how many people will pick the ultramarine traits for their custom chapters. I mean...it's so good. It's bound to show up all the time. I like the custom chapter stuff though. Sounds cool.

 Desubot wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


Danger Close means too close to friendly units, so it's even more not-quite-the-right-word.

I think a Pod permitting Deep Strikes up close to the enemy would be a fine enough quality for it to have at it's current cost, but not at 35 points.

at 35 points im having 7th flashbacks. i mean honestly though the drop pod does have problems but 35 points..

since 5th edition drop pods had 3 editions of costing to little for what they do (5th, 6th, and 7th). I am all for buffing them, but yea 3" and 35 points would mean tables full of them again with armies that do not have them having to completely rethink tactics around one vehicle.

at 35 points i would say 6" and they cannot disembark the turn they come on liek most vehicle the drop counts as the movement, they drop at the end of the movement, they deploy closer than most and then they still get to disembark, move, shoot and charge the next turn. but then there is the risk of casualties in explosions.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


Danger Close means too close to friendly units, so it's even more not-quite-the-right-word.

I think a Pod permitting Deep Strikes up close to the enemy would be a fine enough quality for it to have at it's current cost, but not at 35 points.

at 35 points im having 7th flashbacks. i mean honestly though the drop pod does have problems but 35 points..

You can deep strike units for a CP in this game. The ability to deepstrike is worth between 10-20 points at max.

You can deep strike a unit for a CP in this game, for some factions. Or two for 3 CP. But you can't DS multiple units at 1CP each.

KurtAngle2 wrote:


Sure, wanna fight a Marine model with +1 to Armour saves and 6+++ freely given by a chapter? Go for it!

Finally they are a bit sturdier?

Im not sure id use pods at 35 pts in 8th. Maybe for the new bt tactic. The possible cargo types are simply poor.

CapRichard wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:


Sure, wanna fight a Marine model with +1 to Armour saves and 6+++ freely given by a chapter? Go for it!

Finally they are a bit sturdier?

Sure if they pay for it, not at the same cost with added orders too

Mix "reroll one miss and one failed to wound" with "reroll 1s to hit on bolter weapons". Captains? Never heard of 'em.

The Newman wrote:
Mix "reroll one miss and one failed to wound" with "reroll 1s to hit on bolter weapons". Captains? Never heard of 'em.

Look at me

I'm the captain now.

The Newman wrote:
Mix "reroll one miss and one failed to wound" with "reroll 1s to hit on bolter weapons". Captains? Never heard of 'em.

Rather pointless though - you don't really need the reroll 1's if you've got Master Artisans, and you have to fill up HQ slots anyway. Ignoring AP-1 is WAY better, not to speak of any other possible combination.

As a Salamander it's actually kinda hard to justify having a backfield captain and/or Lt now that our tanks also get to benefit from MA

 bullyboy wrote:
Its funny that so many here are either loving or hating the new traits, yet no one is really winning games with traits, its always the strats that are making/breaking armies. (With exception of Alaitoc flyers).
Most of the traits are small buffs, but the army won't be fully assessed until we see the strats.

Having better traits certainly isn't going to help people lose, so....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Galef wrote:
I think we need to hold judgement. Falling back and shooting with your vehicle is decent and UMs will undoubtedly get some of the best stratagems. They also have Bobby-G, so there will still be plenty of reason to take them.

I agree, another part of the equation that's missing is the indication that Chaplains will be getting prayers. If it ends up working in a similar manner to Dark Apostles that will be a fairly significant paradigm shift (I know it was significant to my CSM lists at least). Assuming they get some reasonable facsimile of Benediction of Darkness and/or Warpsight Plea, I think the calculus changes a bit.

Yep - it's a great time to be a marine lover.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

CapRichard wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Successor Tactics are completely broken...you can mix and match rules of existing Chapters or even new ones

Considering Marines are "subpar", giving them an edge should be fine. We'll see the best combo. Me, playing a DIY chapter, I'm happy.

Sure, wanna fight a Marine model with +1 to Armour saves and 6+++ freely given by a chapter? Go for it!

That's not how it works - at least as I read it. There are restrictions based on founding chapters. If you go outside founding chapters you'll have a different set to use it seems.

The biggest threat is the successors being just better combinations that normal chapters, but that isn't likely or a really big deal.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Its funny that so many here are either loving or hating the new traits, yet no one is really winning games with traits, its always the strats that are making/breaking armies. (With exception of Alaitoc flyers).
Most of the traits are small buffs, but the army won't be fully assessed until we see the strats.

Having better traits certainly isn't going to help people lose, so....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Galef wrote:
I think we need to hold judgement. Falling back and shooting with your vehicle is decent and UMs will undoubtedly get some of the best stratagems. They also have Bobby-G, so there will still be plenty of reason to take them.

I agree, another part of the equation that's missing is the indication that Chaplains will be getting prayers. If it ends up working in a similar manner to Dark Apostles that will be a fairly significant paradigm shift (I know it was significant to my CSM lists at least). Assuming they get some reasonable facsimile of Benediction of Darkness and/or Warpsight Plea, I think the calculus changes a bit.

Yep - it's a great time to be a marine lover.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

CapRichard wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Successor Tactics are completely broken...you can mix and match rules of existing Chapters or even new ones

Considering Marines are "subpar", giving them an edge should be fine. We'll see the best combo. Me, playing a DIY chapter, I'm happy.

Sure, wanna fight a Marine model with +1 to Armour saves and 6+++ freely given by a chapter? Go for it!

That's not how it works - at least as I read it. There are restrictions based on founding chapters. If you go outside founding chapters you'll have a different set to use it seems.

The biggest threat is the successors being just better combinations that normal chapters, but that isn't likely or a really big deal.

You read it wrong, check it again and see that many of the 8 chapters "tactics" are included in the successor ones

Bharring wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


Danger Close means too close to friendly units, so it's even more not-quite-the-right-word.

I think a Pod permitting Deep Strikes up close to the enemy would be a fine enough quality for it to have at it's current cost, but not at 35 points.

at 35 points im having 7th flashbacks. i mean honestly though the drop pod does have problems but 35 points..

You can deep strike units for a CP in this game. The ability to deepstrike is worth between 10-20 points at max.

You can deep strike a unit for a CP in this game, for some factions. Or two for 3 CP. But you can't DS multiple units at 1CP each.

That is a good point. Drop pods should ether mirror those abiltiies and the model just be a prop. Or call it a fast attack option(you could even say it doesn't fill up a slot) for 35 ish points - cause its a storm bolter with 8 wounds for like 15 points plus the ability to deep strike. Plus limited by rule of 3.

KurtAngle2 wrote:
You read it wrong, check it again and see that many of the 8 chapters "tactics" are included in the successor ones

Pretty sure he didn't, if you choose one of the First Founding Chapter tactics, you may not select a second, which leaves you with (does the new math)...one.

Then there's a separate set of tactics, you get to choose two of those, of which they provide a couple examples.

It looks like they'll be able to get one aspect of the founding chapter, not all of them to mix and match is the point.

So uh, Long Range Marksmen means you can get 12 inch flamers.

 Luke_Prowler wrote:

Spoiler:

So uh, Long Range Marksmen means you can get 12 inch flamers.

Oh, so they are useful then

 Xenomancers wrote:

Bharring wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


Danger Close means too close to friendly units, so it's even more not-quite-the-right-word.

I think a Pod permitting Deep Strikes up close to the enemy would be a fine enough quality for it to have at it's current cost, but not at 35 points.

at 35 points im having 7th flashbacks. i mean honestly though the drop pod does have problems but 35 points..

You can deep strike units for a CP in this game. The ability to deepstrike is worth between 10-20 points at max.

You can deep strike a unit for a CP in this game, for some factions. Or two for 3 CP. But you can't DS multiple units at 1CP each.

That is a good point. Drop pods should ether mirror those abiltiies and the model just be a prop. Or call it a fast attack option(you could even say it doesn't fill up a slot) for 35 ish points - cause its a storm bolter with 8 wounds for like 15 points plus the ability to deep strike. Plus limited by rule of 3.

Drop Pod should have been like a 1CP stratagem that lets a unit deep strike.

However, there's a model for a unit so it's got to have rules and points costs. ~35 would be fine for bonus-free deep strike [which, to be fair, it seems like it's costed towards right now as the cost of a rhino +3 points per passenger getting deep strike], and maybe ~50 considering it drops a large LoS blocker, movement inhibitor, and storm bolter to go with it. That said, I think a ~100 point cost and close-range deep strike would probably be a better incarnation, because it is after all a unit, not a strategm, and it should do something beyond a strategem.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:
You read it wrong, check it again and see that many of the 8 chapters "tactics" are included in the successor ones

Pretty sure he didn't, if you choose one of the First Founding Chapter tactics, you may not select a second, which leaves you with (does the new math)...one.

Then there's a separate set of tactics, you get to choose two of those, of which they provide a couple examples.

It looks like they'll be able to get one aspect of the founding chapter, not all of them to mix and match is the point.

These examples are PRETTY good too.
+3 range to ranged weapons is pretty sweet. Really good for bolter discipline intercessors. Really good for agressors too. 21" double taps now. WOW. Also great for repulsors! This is gonna be a fan favorite I am sure.

The Newman wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
It’s mentioned in the WarCom article that chaplains are getting an additional force multiplier. The Dark apostle analogy is the natural first inference.

I believe in the initial reveal in the section they talk about data cards the say there's X faith cards

Yes, there are 7 "Litanies of battle"

Got a link? Searching for WarCom seems to just give me US Army sites and some brake manufacturer.

On an unrelated note, holy fish paste:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/04/pre-order-preview-the-adeptus-astartes/

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/06/space-marines-preview-create-your-own-chapter-tacticsgw-homepage-post-1/

124 cards for easy reference during a game, divided into three sets:
Set 1 – 49 cards (36 Tactical Objectives, 13 psychic powers)
Set 2 – 48 cards (38 Stratagems, 3 Combat Doctrines, 7 Litanies of Battle)
Set 3 – 27 Chapter Tactics (8 Chapter Tactics, 19 Successor Tactics)

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/04/pre-order-preview-the-adeptus-astartes/

 Luke_Prowler wrote:

Spoiler:

So uh, Long Range Marksmen means you can get 12 inch flamers.

11", but still...good catch...

Aggressors, HO!

Why do I get the feeling the excerpt If you’re a fan of the Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Grey Knights or Deathwatch, don’t worry – you can look forward to official rules updates coming soon via free PDF download. And remember, you Heretic Astartes players out there will also be gaining Shock Assault for your units in a similar update! means the said chapters will only get the Shock Assault rules updated and no enhanced chapter tactics yet...