Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near!

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**Niiai**

Well thank you for the imputt. I must be honest, I had not much considered the fortefications.

They seem very durable at T8 and a lot of wounds. The landing pad only affects units on topp. It might be a good place to start ridgerunners. But everytging else will have problems getting down, being so tall and all. Also it can not be 3" close to any other terain, somewhat nerfing them. The plasma generator is 200 points. Rather a lott. Especially if it doed not protect a lot.

I also think trucks, brood brothers and atelan jackals can be durable. The jackals are a bit depended on terain. 18 points for T4, 2 wounds, 4+, -1 to hit is not all that good. Multi wound weapons kills them easaly.

I have also been eyeing the chimera. It does not have 6+++. But has better T and save. Also, I can upgrade it to have a flamer. 2 heavy flamers at 90 points is nothing to sneeze at.

Ironically I do not think the leman russ is that durable. Even at T8, 4+. It will just eat every high powered weapon there is. Or am I wrong about this?

**shamroll**

Abominant with Mark of the Clawed Omnissiah with born survivor warlord trait is the most fun warlord I have ever used. It is the best distraction Carnifex ever and it has tanked Leman Russ shots, demon princes, and Manticore shots like a champ.

He might not do much damage but people fear him for his toughness.

**Strat_N8**

Sharing this here for analysis: https://www.goonhammer.com/competing-with-genestealer-cults-in-9th-an-interview-with-bilbo-goransson/

There are a lot of good tactical observations brought up during the discussion and the list itself is very interesting. Lots of mech for the on-table presence coupled with two bike bombs and two Acolyte bombs for threat removal.

Niiai wrote:The plasma generator is 200 points. Rather a lott. Especially if it doed not protect a lot.

It has fairly wide coverage. The field itself affects units wholly within 12'' of the generator, which is itself 6'' across, so the total bubble is about 30'' in diameter. The structure itself is also tall enough to block line-of-sight to a Patriarch or Goliath truck, so it can be used to shield a key unit from first-turn sniping.

Niiai wrote:
I also think trucks, brood brothers and atelan jackals can be durable. The jackals are a bit depended on terain. 18 points for T4, 2 wounds, 4+, -1 to hit is not all that good. Multi wound weapons kills them easaly.

Jackals are 14 points without equipment. While it isn't as nice as their old price at 10, it is still reasonable for something that has their mobility and relative toughness (they effectively pay 2 points over an equal wound value of Neophytes for -1 to hit and a toughness bump).

While I agree multi-damage weaponry is a concern, it is worth remembering that the sort of multi-damage weaponry that counters Jackals is also the sort that is most dangerous to our vehicles. If Jackals are taking the hits it buys some extra time for the Ridgerunners and Goliaths to do what they need to do

Niiai wrote:
I have also been eyeing the chimera. It does not have 6+++. But has better T and save. Also, I can upgrade it to have a flamer. 2 heavy flamers at 90 points is nothing to sneeze at.

They also have their smoke launchers still if I recall right. Main issue for the Chimera is that its available cargo is rather limited (though I suppose a squad of Brood Brothers to secure an objective isn't too bad an idea),

Niiai wrote:
Ironically I do not think the leman russ is that durable. Even at T8, 3+. It will just eat every high powered weapon there is. Or am I wrong about this?

I don't think anyone would disagree it is a fire magnet, though admittedly how much fire it will attract will probably be directly proportional to the amount of Ridgerunners also present, since they have higher damage potential between stratagems and accuracy enhancements.

It is rather expensive for its durability though.

shamroll wrote:
He might not do much damage but people fear him for his toughness.

I agree. I suppose it also might be worth nothing he does have the potential to do stupid amounts of damage (I have had one take down a Knight by himself with Overthrow the Oppressors and his Chosen One Aura creating a string of extra hits and attacks) but not consistently like a Patriarch or melee squad.

**Niiai**

OK.

Here is my atempt at a competetive GSC cult list. 22 drops. 9 start on the table. (Start 12 things on the table and pull the rest into reserves with 'they came from below.)

Starting Alphus, 3 ridgerunner squads, 3 mortar squads, 1 brood brother squad, 1 nexos on the table.

Things I do not like in this list: The elite slot feels a lot like a tax. Locus and Nexos in particular feels bad. 100 points for 'nothing'.

Othervice do deepstrike shenanigans. Shotgun squads to deny objectives and kill troops. With the CP I have they can be combined with lying in wait and a perfect abush. Also, a perfect ambush is very good on the acolyte hybrid group.

I do feel that I could remove the acolyte hand flamer, nexos and locus (150 points) and add 2 groups of 5 hyrbid metamorphs with rending tallon, lash whip and hand flamer (130 points.)

Spoiler:

**Ordana**

I'll always feel like Brigades are a trap because of the 'wasted' points on sub-optimal units to fill it.
But I to notice a lack of troop choices to fit everything in and GSC is so CP hungry that getting a 2nd detachment also feels bad.

I think your trying to do to much at the same time.
5 hand flamers just isn't threatening enough. You won't even kill 10 Guardsman off an objective at that point.
I would either drop them or go bigger, atleast 10 but preferably 15-20.

the BB are not going to survive on an objective for even 1 turn and from experience, mortars just don't do anything (like 7 mortars do less then 5 handflamers) and that was in 8th before Dense terrain existed.

I would bite the bullet and drop the Brigade, go for a Battalion + Patrol. Patriarch with SMO. Magus in the Patrol, 4AE and Inscrutable cunning to get some CP back.

Drop the Mortars, Locus, Nexos. Expand or drop the Hand Flamers and bring 2 big 20 man BB units to stand on your home objectives.

**Niiai**

You have some good points. I am bot sure about the mortars beeing bad though. I guess it depends on what we face.

For under 50 points they give me board pressense to deploy with. And they are great for picking of small or wounded units. My regular opponent is an ork. 10 boys or 10 gretcskins and they do fine. If I meet 30 boys in one unit I get 27 shots into them. Hitting half, wounding half. Not great but what can you ecspect for 150 points.

The BB will certanly die fast. I think mayby I will try to keep them hidden until the rest of my force arives. Then they can eek out and try to grab ny home objective. They or the mortars should be alive.

I suspect a lot of the board will be looking very caotic turn 2 or 3. Having the ekstra help on mortars to take out wounded units should be great.

**Drakeslayer**

Maybe everyone here is playing with the GT pack... but under the standard rules for Matched Play, I can't see anything that prevents us from deploying our units from underground on Turn 1.

Is this right? Also are there still restrictions on deploying no more than half your army in reserve? Because as far as I can tell, those rules are only in the GT pack. So for those of us not using it in games with our opponents, can we deep strike T1? And can we do so with more than half our army?

Sorry if this has already been dealt with - haven't had many games of 9th so far, and I'd sort of assumed the old restrictions on deep-striking carried over, but looking again through the book I can't see that this is the case.

**Niiai**

There is nothing in the rules that prevent units from deep striking turn one if they have deep striking from before.

All missions except the once who are for open play prevents it.

I never play open play. But play however you want. Null deployment with 100% deepstrike after the opponent did nothing for one turn. Go ahead.

**Drakeslayer**

Ah right, found it:

It reads "No more than half the total number of units in your army can be Strategic Reserve and/or Reinforcement units...

"In Eternal War missions, Strategic Reserve and Reinforcement units can never arrive on the battlefield in the first battle round."

But under the Strategic Reserves rule, it says "Note that these rules do not apply to units that are using other rules that enable them to start the battle in a location other than the battlefield. Such units are not placed in Strategic Reserves and they are instead set up as described by their own rules."

So Cult Ambush does not count as Strategic Reserves, or Reinforcements - so even with this rule for Eternal War missions does our army ignore it? Or am I missing an FAQ somewhere...

**Niiai**

None of what you say contradicts what I said.

"Eternal War Mission Pack". Bullit point number Number 10, talks about what you can and can not do with reserves. Those are in matched play, and narative play. In open play the wording is different.

I hope that clears it up. If it is not there then look at the rules that lets you not deplpy on the table, and probably check any presissions in an FAQ.

**the_scotsman**

Drakeslayer wrote:
Ah right, found it:

It reads "No more than half the total number of units in your army can be Strategic Reserve and/or Reinforcement units...

"In Eternal War missions, Strategic Reserve and Reinforcement units can never arrive on the battlefield in the first battle round."

But under the Strategic Reserves rule, it says "Note that these rules do not apply to units that are using other rules that enable them to start the battle in a location other than the battlefield. Such units are not placed in Strategic Reserves and they are instead set up as described by their own rules."

So Cult Ambush does not count as Strategic Reserves, or Reinforcements - so even with this rule for Eternal War missions does our army ignore it? Or am I missing an FAQ somewhere...

You're missing that Cult Ambush is now officially only blip deployment. Underground is a separate state, that does count as Reinforcements.

I made the same mistake. it is, in my opinion, confusing and misleading.

**Drakeslayer**

Ah right, my mistake. I misread the FAQ:

Add the following:
Page 78 – Abilities, Cult Ambush
‘Matched Play: In matched play, units set up in ambush using this rule do not count as being Strategic Reserves or Reinforcement units.’

Thought this applied to both sections (ambush and underground). Thanks for clearing this up guys! Despite bullet points, the new rules are still as badly laid out as the old ones.

**D6Damager**

shamroll wrote:
Abominant with Mark of the Clawed Omnissiah with born survivor warlord trait is the most fun warlord I have ever used. It is the best distraction Carnifex ever and it has tanked Leman Russ shots, demon princes, and Manticore shots like a champ.

He might not do much damage but people fear him for his toughness.

Does the Mark of the Clawed Omnissiah stack with Bestial Vigor? Or are you taking it for the invulnerable save?

**shamroll**

Mark of the Clawed Omnissiah doesn't prevent you from also making the beastial Vigor roll. So he ends up with a T5 3++/5+++, -2 to all damage he takes, and he regains d3 wounds a turn. 2d3 if you spend 1 CP.

Since he can deep strike, hits with a s12 Hammer that does 3 to 6 damage, and can tank damage really well people will sometimes throw a lot of units at him trying to kill him. Any shots at him means less shots at your more squishy units that actually score you the victory points.

**Niiai**

What do people think of the new start collecting IG? Can it work for GSC? We can use everything except the hydra.

I already have 3 weapon teams and 1 BB team. But BB seems descent enough with double flamer. And flamer chimera is solid enough.

What do people think?

**Strat_N8**

I think it is a decent enough collection as far as the selection of models is concerned, and technically everything is usable if taken as a Brood Brother's detachment (even if said detachment is disincentivized).

Focusing only on the units that can be used in-codex without a dedicated detachment, the infantry and weapon teams both have some unique as cheap options to sit on objectives. Sentinels I'm a bit down on at the moment given how much better Ridge Runners are as a scouting weapon platform, but they still have a bit of utility if leaning into their more unique weapons (Heavy Flamer, Plasma Cannon). I haven't had much playtime with Chimera in this edition but I would be somewhat curious to see if Heavy Bolter Chimera might be worth playing with post-buff. We don't have much mid-strength, mid-AP, damage 2 shooting for picking on Marines.

While the Hydra isn't great right now, it might be worth looking at when the guard get their new book. In the Space Marine codex book the to-hit penalty on AA weapons targeting non-Fly models was removed. If the Hydra gets the same buff it would pair very nicely with our Goliath Trucks for autocannon spam (with added accuracy vs fly).

**Niiai**

Thanks.

**dreadlybrew**

does anyone else find the detachemnt costing comand points hurt this army more than others? i was all about mixing bladed cog and rusted claw in 8th, but now even trying to get a working army with my playstyle out the door costs me 5-6cp before the game even starts. and GSC is such a CP hungry beast that i cant even feel confident my turn 2 bombs are going to land in any way.

I think it just exhausts me that there is no room for error and i am not allowed to make a single mistake or fail a charge roll or miss an attack because if i do my t3 board is done for.

I've been enjoying a 240pt blob of hybrids flame throwering twice though thats pretty juicy.

**Niiai**

Yes, everybody feel that.

My last list had a full brigade, to unlock more then 6 troop choises. It did not do very well, as I find Orks a good oponent. I would leave some models at home to grab one or two leman russes. I really need more big guns that starts on the map. My opponents 2 dakkajets chewed through one unit each ever turn.

**Tiberius501**

Hello friends, I’ve sort of been floating around different armies recently, considering getting a new one, and GSC are resonating with me, thematically. But I’m curious about the play style. I read the write up in the first post, and they seem quite fun, but how do they stack up as a whole vs a heavy marine meta? (My group play a lot of marines). I’m worried that their paper thin units and lack of strength will make them insanely in affective and easy wins for my friends.

**Niiai**

Supposebly they are good,

They are very unique. They have a lot of tricks. I only loose when I fight Orks, who are all I fight. I do not know how to play them.

This is from warhammer communaty last week. So supposably they are quite good.

**Tiberius501**

Ah well that’s good. They seem like good fun, so I’ll use some proxy games to see how I find them to fair. Any advice on how to fight marines with them?

**Niiai**

No idea. Sorry.

**Strat_N8**

Tiberius501 wrote:
Ah well that’s good. They seem like good fun, so I’ll use some proxy games to see how I find them to fair. Any advice on how to fight marines with them?

It is somewhat tricky to give good general advice since it depends rather heavily on what sort of list is being used. For example, in my local meta (prior to the most recent shutdown) we have four exclusively Space Marine players: One favors Ultramarine midfield gunline, one favors Firstborn Marines in drop pods, one favors mech with a bit of Gravis sprinkled in, and the last one favors mass Infiltrator Ravenguard. I have had relatively even fights with the first three using a combination of mech, Jackals, and ambushers, but the last one is very hard to have a good game against since it hard counters ambush and has enough anti-armor to shut down pure mech (plus, infiltrators themselves are shockingly good at doing plink damage with their "wound on 6's to hit" ability).

If you are building for a Marine-centric meta (which is admittedly a fairly safe assumption), I'd suggest leaning heavily on Acolytes and Jackals. Acolytes are the most cost-effective solution we have to marine infantry due to their special weapons (Rock Saws for general infantry, Rock Cutters for Gravis and Bladeguard Vets) and you can sling them up the board from an ambush token if you absolutely have to (using Perfect Ambush for D6'', regular move + advance, and Genetic Memory or Psychic Stimulus to enable charging). Jackals are a bit pricey, but they are the best option we have for taking midfield objectives on turn 1 due to their speed, especially if you also have some Ridgerunners with Flare Launchers.

You ideally want to use your forces to keep the Marines from claiming the midfield. If you can keep them pinned around their deployment zone for turn 1, 2, and 3 you should be able to rack up a victory point lead.Getting a victory point lead is essential, as we bleed secondary points rather badly. You also will want to prioritize units that threaten infantry, even if you are leaning heavier into mech. The GSC infantry are the primary damage dealers, so if you can use your vehicles to set up a more favorable board state for the infantry it makes things a bit easier.

Lastly, possibly look at adding a Sanctus with Biodagger. I have been finding they are a fairly good unit to pick on small marine squads, and they are fairly nimble (can use Perfect Ambush for free on turn 1 when the Sanctus reveals itself from an ambush token, then advance and charge using Slipping through the Shadows for a fairly impressive 20'' first turn average threat range).

**the_scotsman**

Tiberius501 wrote:
Ah well that’s good. They seem like good fun, so I’ll use some proxy games to see how I find them to fair. Any advice on how to fight marines with them?

Basically, marines do a half-dozen of the most common competitive strategies the best so it's hard to make a solid recommendation. The prescence of infiltrators is basically our hardest-hard-counter out there, so if they have a lot of them you're in trouble basically no matter what. Typically I run some ridgerunners, some jackals just for objective grabbing, and my neophytes are double seismic cannon in goliaths with a Jackal Alphus nearby to buff the vehicles up. Then in deep strike I have 20 acolytes with a magus with familiar to cast Might from Beyond and the Bladed Cog 5+FNP power, a Kelermorph to pick off a character, and a Dagger Sanctus and Locus to deep strike and perform actions.

Basically my strategy is "distract while scoring objectives." The real things that win games are the stupid deep striking/action performing characters and the minimum jackal squads zipping around and scoring, the deep strike bomb and the mounted troops are just there to kill what they can and distract the enemy.

**Niiai**

Did we get any points adjuested?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/76UtmPgtSCGKJAnW.pdf

Brood brothers went up 1 point(?)
Abberants went down 2 points.
Heavy weapon teams went up 2 points (an even 50 for 3)
All leman russmain weapons went down 15 points.
All rockgrinder weapons went down 15 points.
Some non flamer chimera weapons got cheaper.
Goliath Truck became 10 points cheaper.

**Strat_N8**

I like mech but they aren't being very subtle in regards to pushing it, are they?

It would have been nice if they had been a bit more generous with the cost drops but I suppose we can take what we are given. The changes to bring it down is also rather helpful since almost all of our vehicles only give up 1 victory point now, so mech builds aren't starting 15 points down.

**NinthMusketeer**

Coming from a crusade angle; are aberrants as bad in cost when it comes to PL as they are in points?

**Keramory**

Very happy about the point drops. All of them needed it.

I seriously don't understand the brood brother increase though. Doesn't that make them the same as neophytes? Why would you ever bring a brood brother over a neophyte as you lose out on creeds and gain absolutely nothing in return? It being a bit cheaper was the only reason to take them wasn't it?

**Niiai**

Keramory wrote:
Very happy about the point drops. All of them needed it.

I seriously don't understand the brood brother increase though. Doesn't that make them the same as neophytes? Why would you ever bring a brood brother over a neophyte as you lose out on creeds and gain absolutely nothing in return? It being a bit cheaper was the only reason to take them wasn't it?

Well I suspect they followed the point increases/decreases on the overlapping units in the IG codex. They do have some advantages. You can take a heavy weapon team. And you can ride a Chimera (now also cheaper.)