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 Ishagu wrote:
Yeah I quite like that for dealing with flyers, especially as we can re roll all hit rolls now.

Ultramarines can auto-hit with an executioner - that's something like 11 damage with the laser if they don't have an invuln.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I take powerfist all the time on intercessor sargents. Probably still will. I would sometimes take a TH on a bike captain but now it kinda like...not even an an option. BA can still use it I suppose but a 20 point increase is nothing to 1 shot knights. Other marines can't do that though so it is a bad change. Yet another bad change in this codex. Seems like they are just nerfing everything that has been good for marines when they have in fact been one of the worst armies in the game. It's pretty absurd. This isn't how you make an army better.

Wait a tick. Other marines weren't doing it before. That's why BA were the only Smashcaps. So them not doing it still isn't some great loss. Nevertheless --

2 CP - unwoundable on 1,2, or 3

Generic WL Trait - Reroll any dice on charging, +1S +1A
Mastercrafted Weapon - +1D

RG Trait - no overwatch
WS trait - +D3 attacks on charge

WS doctrine - +1D on the charge

So, WS Smash Captain can:

- Run and charge
- +1A from AoD
- +1S & +1A OR +D3A
- +1D for relic
- +1D for charging on turn 3

He can be on a bike and be given jink for a 3++. He can tank a knight with Transhuman.

This makes a potential AP4 5 damage thunderhammer at S10 with 6 attacks.

BA smash captain is str 10 +1 to wound with ignore overwatch reroll charges and 3d6 charge with 7-9 attacks. It is a lot better than anything a space marine character can do with a thunder hammer and they can do it turn 1. Sure it costs CP but the point remains. It is the BA smash that they are targeting with this nerf. They should just raise the points on the BA smash captain or fix soup issues - not raise the cost of a thunder hammer for everyone else. Furthmore if they are going to charge for weapons based on the ability of the user. Shouldn't all BA melle weapons cost most because they wound better? They aren't gonna do that. Inconsistencies like this ruin the game.


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 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Yeah I quite like that for dealing with flyers, especially as we can re roll all hit rolls now.

Ultramarines can auto-hit with an executioner - that's something like 11 damage with the laser if they don't have an invuln.

How to auto hit?


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Can someone explain to me how shooting twice with 10 bolt rifles is equal to shooting twice with obliterators now? Can we just expland the rapid fire stratagem to be any chapter infantry?


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3CP to make 10 stalker bolt rifles sniper weapons? ARE YOU EFFING KIDDING ME? These should already be sniper weapons lol.

Its a strategem, and it only affects one shot. You still gotta roll for the other three coming out of the main gun if youre popping it on an executioner's superlaser.

 Ishagu wrote:
Does the +1 to hit impact all units within 6 or just one?

I've not seen the Litanies in detail

So this is what I am seeing, I assume they haven't changed it yet...

1 autohit? Like 1 shot with a weapon or 1 total shot?

 Xenomancers wrote:
1 autohit? Like 1 shot with a weapon or 1 total shot?

One attack roll automatically succeeds. Still has to wound. Still can be saved.

Sterling191 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
1 autohit? Like 1 shot with a weapon or 1 total shot?

One attack roll automatically succeeds. Still has to wound. Still can be saved.

I can't imagine ever using this lol.

Sterling191 wrote:
Its a strategem, and it only affects one shot. You still gotta roll for the other three coming out of the main gun if youre popping it on an executioner's superlaser.

Yea, seems you're right. That stinks a bit.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
1 autohit? Like 1 shot with a weapon or 1 total shot?

One attack roll automatically succeeds. Still has to wound. Still can be saved.

I can't imagine ever using this lol.

I've has a few games against Eldar where I needed one shot from a lascannon to take something big down...

What's this auto-hit stratagem?

Its out of the UM supplement.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
1 autohit? Like 1 shot with a weapon or 1 total shot?

One attack roll automatically succeeds. Still has to wound. Still can be saved.

I can't imagine ever using this lol.

I've has a few games against Eldar where I needed one shot from a lascannon to take something big down...

Only slightly better than a command point reroll in that case. It's something don't get me wrong. You can still fail to wound though and they can still save. Good chance at wasting CP.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
1 autohit? Like 1 shot with a weapon or 1 total shot?

One attack roll automatically succeeds. Still has to wound. Still can be saved.

I can't imagine ever using this lol.

I've has a few games against Eldar where I needed one shot from a lascannon to take something big down...

Only slightly better than a command point reroll in that case. It's something don't get me wrong. You can still fail to wound though and they can still save. Good chance at wasting CP.

I guess I'd rather waste the CP on the wound roll (3+) than with the hit roll (3+1 for moving with a heavy/4+). I can be confident in the wound, just not the Hit.

The stratagem should be 1 shot automatically hits and wounds. Invune saves can be taken and you still gotta roll for damage and stuff. They can CP reroll that invo too. If thats a 5++ save it's about a 50% chance they counter you just by rerolling the save. Even if you auto hit and wound. Not that great.

 Xenomancers wrote:
The stratagem should be 1 shot automatically hits and wounds. Invune saves can be taken and you still gotta roll for damage and stuff. They can CP reroll that invo too. If thats a 5++ save it's about a 50% chance they counter you just by rerolling the save. Even if you auto hit and wound. Not that great.

With everything else, I am just gobsmacked that we are complaining about the litinies. They are JUST ICING on this cake....

Isn't the auto hit stratagem a counter to things like Eldar fliers and such that don't have an invuln but just stack - 1?
With the executioner firepower it can increase a lot the possibility to damage something.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
The stratagem should be 1 shot automatically hits and wounds. Invune saves can be taken and you still gotta roll for damage and stuff. They can CP reroll that invo too. If thats a 5++ save it's about a 50% chance they counter you just by rerolling the save. Even if you auto hit and wound. Not that great.

With everything else, I am just gobsmacked that we are complaining about the litinies. They are JUST ICING on this cake....

We got plenty of nerfs too. Not complaining really - I will be using that +1 to hit most likely. Some of the others are just unusable.

If that was the intent. A current stratagem that custodes have would have been much better. Ignore to hit penalties. Like seriously. 1 autohit is garbage. It kinda reminds me of the nid stratagem that does 1 mortal to a unit you did a wound to it. Do you know how much better than is than 1 auto hit? It still hugely situational too.

Other than Guilliman and the Repulsor what are those plenty of nerfs?

I don’t see the Litany preview, just the Invictor(?) the dreadnought-lite. I guess no new info there, but really hit home how they fixed all the classic dread weaknesses...and instead of fixing dreads just made a new unit :p

If I recall correctly they are costed like 130-150? I’m unsure what wargear the preview had. Seems hard to resist at that price.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Other than Guilliman and the Repulsor what are those plenty of nerfs?

One could argue the chappy was nerfed in that you need to roll a 3 on a D6 to get it's impact now. by and large it's a "side upgrade" but someone somewhere had their build negitively impacted by this I suspect

So the Litanty's take place at the start of the battleround. Not sure this is good.

I don't how to feel about the chaplain: it used to be a good aura, but it was more or less the same as a captain. Now, you have to roll, potentially using cp reroll, but some sound really good. IDK, it's just, we don't need even more random I guess.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Other than Guilliman and the Repulsor what are those plenty of nerfs?

Those are big nerfs.

What if you went to a tau player told them their codex got a lot of buffs but riptides and broadside got big points hikes?

or you went to an admech player and said their destroyers got +1 save but cawl lost his reroll all hits aura and dunecrawlers went up 20 points...

Seriously.

Lets also not forget increased CP cost of most good stratagems and technically a nerf to the codex. If you include allies you don't get all the benefits.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Other than Guilliman and the Repulsor what are those plenty of nerfs?

Didn't we loose some stratagem ? Didn't see any linebreaker or killshot or tremor ammo for the thunderfire. If true, BIG loss.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Other than Guilliman and the Repulsor what are those plenty of nerfs?

Those are big nerfs.

What if you went to a tau player told them their codex got a lot of buffs but riptides and broadside got big points hikes?

or you went to an admech player and said their destroyers got +1 save but cawl lost his reroll all hits aura and dunecrawlers went up 20 points...

Seriously.

Then you'd also have to tell them what buffs they got and let them sort it out.

Lets also not forget increased CP cost of most good stratagems and technically a nerf to the codex. If you include allies you don't get all the benefits.

doctrines didn't exist before this codex, that's not a nerf to marine ally lists that's a buff to pure marine lists.

You guys are thinking shallow with that auto hit stratagem, I'd use it on a UM vehicle that's on its second or last bracket so it can still make its points back. Like a dread that can move into a good position but it'd be hitting on 6s

They'd probably arrive at the same conclusion I have after analysis. Zero sum gain.




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BrianDavion wrote:

Lets also not forget increased CP cost of most good stratagems and technically a nerf to the codex. If you include allies you don't get all the benefits.

doctrines didn't exist before this codex, that's not a nerf to marine ally lists that's a buff to pure marine lists.

If a marine is worth its points with these doctrines it is not worth it without it if they take allies. It is a nerf by design. Perhaps other armies will also get this kind of structure but then it's not a buff is it? If everyone is getting it? It is the illusion of a buff. The reality is marines aren't getting much better overall compared to the feild but it really appears they are. I was initially fooled too.




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 fraser1191 wrote:
You guys are thinking shallow with that auto hit stratagem, I'd use it on a UM vehicle that's on its second or last bracket so it can still make its points back. Like a dread that can move into a good position but it'd be hitting on 6s

Just play ironhands dude. Don't degrade. That is free btw. No CP required.

 fraser1191 wrote:
You guys are thinking shallow with that auto hit stratagem, I'd use it on a UM vehicle that's on its second or last bracket so it can still make its points back. Like a dread that can move into a good position but it'd be hitting on 6s

Yep. It certainly is useful.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Other than Guilliman and the Repulsor what are those plenty of nerfs?

Those are big nerfs.

What if you went to a tau player told them their codex got a lot of buffs but riptides and broadside got big points hikes?

or you went to an admech player and said their destroyers got +1 save but cawl lost his reroll all hits aura and dunecrawlers went up 20 points...

Seriously.

Lets also not forget increased CP cost of most good stratagems and technically a nerf to the codex. If you include allies you don't get all the benefits.

Any people accuse me of freaking out over nothing....

So, who cares? The META will adapt. It always does. How many META BREAKING changes have their been in this edition? Who cares, because here is one more. There is really nothing stopping Ultras from being super powerful this edition. The meta will change, it will survive, and it will get stronger....