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I refuse to spend a dime on models that WILL be squatted sooner than later. Let me know when my primaris can ride in them, otherwise, pass.
Yeah, Primaris will get a super Pod and it will cost like $120. You're welcome to it
No Primaris won't get a drop pod they'll get a deep striking bunker! I'm totally calling this it'll be a bunker that you don't have get out of unless it's destroyed but you can shoot out of it's windows
Now you're talking! And it'll be covered in little missile barrage pods and heavy stubbers!
I feel like fragstorm grenade launchers would be more fitting, and then it'll have a rule so passengers can fire overwatch for extra cheese haha
I'm willing to admit I'm wrong. But does anyone really expect to break out 3, because that's the rule now, and start turn 1 DSing, I'm guessing Dev squads, into the opponents back field?
I refuse to spend a dime on models that WILL be squatted sooner than later. Let me know when my primaris can ride in them, otherwise, pass.
Yeah, Primaris will get a super Pod and it will cost like $120. You're welcome to it
No Primaris won't get a drop pod they'll get a deep striking bunker! I'm totally calling this it'll be a bunker that you don't have get out of unless it's destroyed but you can shoot out of it's windows
Now you're talking! And it'll be covered in little missile barrage pods and heavy stubbers!
I feel like fragstorm grenade launchers would be more fitting, and then it'll have a rule so passengers can fire overwatch for extra cheese haha
This is 100% fine and should have been a part of the rules day 1, i'm more mad about the Implosor than the drop pods, that thing is so freaking cheap, its only like 10pts more than a Venom.....
If i was a marine i would just spam Impolsors and 5mans, i'd have 5-6 of them easily.
Amishprn86 wrote: This is 100% fine and should have been a part of the rules day 1, i'm more mad about the Implosor than the drop pods, that thing is so freaking cheap, its only like 10pts more than a Venom.....
If i was a marine i would just spam Impolsors and 5mans, i'd have 5-6 of them easily.
Drop Pods deep striking turn 1 were part of the rules day 1.
All I know.. is i'd love an option to put a 10 man Viorla breacher team into a drop pod to drop then onto the other side turn 1, disembark them w/n 5" and double tap them at the closest unit for only 65 extra points. Maybe not tournament grade, but would be fun/totally worth it at FLG fridays, and would be mostly unexpected.
Amishprn86 wrote: This is 100% fine and should have been a part of the rules day 1, i'm more mad about the Implosor than the drop pods, that thing is so freaking cheap, its only like 10pts more than a Venom.....
If i was a marine i would just spam Impolsors and 5mans, i'd have 5-6 of them easily.
Drop Pods deep striking turn 1 were part of the rules day 1.
Too be fair, so was everyone else DS turn 1.
PourSpelur wrote: It's fully within the rules for me to look up your Facebook page, find out your dear Mother Gladys is single, take her on a lovely date, and tell you all the details of our hot, sweaty, animal sex during your psychic phase.
I mean, fifty bucks is on the line.
There's no rule that says I can't.
Amishprn86 wrote: This is 100% fine and should have been a part of the rules day 1, i'm more mad about the Implosor than the drop pods, that thing is so freaking cheap, its only like 10pts more than a Venom.....
If i was a marine i would just spam Impolsors and 5mans, i'd have 5-6 of them easily.
Sadly this is likely the best build. Give it the rocket or the AA stubber.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Amishprn86 wrote: This is 100% fine and should have been a part of the rules day 1, i'm more mad about the Implosor than the drop pods, that thing is so freaking cheap, its only like 10pts more than a Venom.....
If i was a marine i would just spam Impolsors and 5mans, i'd have 5-6 of them easily.
Venoms are open topped, right? That makes it better right there. And -1 to hit built in. Seriously? Drukhari are still gonna stomp marines after this codex.
Amishprn86 wrote: This is 100% fine and should have been a part of the rules day 1, i'm more mad about the Implosor than the drop pods, that thing is so freaking cheap, its only like 10pts more than a Venom.....
If i was a marine i would just spam Impolsors and 5mans, i'd have 5-6 of them easily.
Drop Pods deep striking turn 1 were part of the rules day 1.
You know what i mean, from when DSing turn 2 started
Daedalus81 wrote:
Amishprn86 wrote: This is 100% fine and should have been a part of the rules day 1, i'm more mad about the Implosor than the drop pods, that thing is so freaking cheap, its only like 10pts more than a Venom.....
If i was a marine i would just spam Impolsors and 5mans, i'd have 5-6 of them easily.
6 of that setup is half your army before weapons.
They are 80pts base before weapons, 6 will not be 1/2 your army, more like 700pts of your 2k., yeah i know thats close to 1/2 but its still 300pts difference. Im guessing 20pts for weapons. Also remember Tacs are going down, and so are some of the wargear.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/12 20:44:23
You're really trying to say 11 Wounds at T7 with a 4++ (shooting and cc) are comparable to 6 wounds at T5 and a 5++ vs. shooting only?
Not even considering the assault vehicle rule, the -2 to charge, etc.., etc...
-1 is still a great defense. Plasma still kills itself, regular chapter masters can't reroll it. And given that the transport turns off its expensive cargo, I'd say it is comparable. Space marines not contributing is a big deal.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/12 20:47:25
Martel732 wrote: Venoms are open topped, right? That makes it better right there. And -1 to hit built in. Seriously? Drukhari are still gonna stomp marines after this codex.
While very true, its still 75pts vs 95-100pts for double the survivability, +2 toughness, +5 wounds, and still able to get Invul that is 4+ vs 5+, -1 to hit isnt all that, there are so many plus to hits and re-rolls, heck even the new Impolsor can get a weapon with +1 to hit against fly.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: Not to be a meta purist, but it seems pointless to include buffs to a model no one owns and isn't sold in most stores anymore. This is like coming out and buffing Ratlings to make them S5 rifles.
Speaking of which, did all sniper rifles go to S5, or just marine sniper rifles? Because my command squads might want to go sniper.
No one owns a drop pod and stores don't carry them? This is probably takes the cake in claims I've heard on dakka. Almost every marine player owns at least one, every game store I've ever been to including GW in NYC and Philie have them on the shelves and this codex gave a lot of love to the classic marine line. I'm more convinced than ever it'll be a long while till they go away.
I have to say, after having to fight certain posters for days about " Drop pods are the worthless junk !! you'll never win with them and basic troop marines !! "
These marine codex changes please me greatly, it looks like maybe drop pods may have some merit, especially if you can go first, being able to drop in turn 1 once more will feel good at the least being the only exception to that.
I don't think this makes drop pods bad or even makes a bad change. Some select units having turn 1 deep strike won't destroy the game, the thing that destroyed the turn 1 reserves was the fact there were no limitations, and some armies that lived for the hot drop were too cheap for what they did.
It was overall a mess but some units using the turn 1 hot drop should be fine. I doubt even with this Drop pods will slam over the top scene, but it does make using them and old marines have a bit more bite.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: Not to be a meta purist, but it seems pointless to include buffs to a model no one owns and isn't sold in most stores anymore. This is like coming out and buffing Ratlings to make them S5 rifles.
.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
First it's Impulsors will be close to 200pts, you guys are deluding yourself. And now this.
I own a drop pod and my local GW has at least 4 on the shelf last time I looked (might be gone now though)
dakka absolutes are always golden entertainment! Don't know who takes the cake right now, you or Xenomancers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/13 02:51:51
I refuse to spend a dime on models that WILL be squatted sooner than later. Let me know when my primaris can ride in them, otherwise, pass.
Yeah, Primaris will get a super Pod and it will cost like $120. You're welcome to it
No Primaris won't get a drop pod they'll get a deep striking bunker! I'm totally calling this it'll be a bunker that you don't have get out of unless it's destroyed but you can shoot out of it's windows
Now you're talking! And it'll be covered in little missile barrage pods and heavy stubbers!
I feel like fragstorm grenade launchers would be more fitting, and then it'll have a rule so passengers can fire overwatch for extra cheese haha
.... depending on the cost I'd take one... seriously a deployable bunker could be pretty awesome
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
I scimmed all so idk if addressed (If so let me have it).
What happens if I want to take say (not looking at points, say around 2k) say 4 HQs 6 TROOPS 2 HEAVY SUPPORTS in 8 Drop Pods (so 2x battalions) entire army is in Drop pod assault. So if Enemy gets first turn will be like back ages ago and nothing on the field? or is it first Battle round turn all have to drop?
14k Generic Space Marine Chapters 20k Deathwatch 10k Sisters of Battle 3k Inquisition 4k Grey Knights 5k Imperial Guard 4k Harlequins 8k Tau
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: I have skimmed the release notes, and they seem, to me at least, to be attempting to throw the OldBois some love with this, not that it will help. From what I read, it can't take Primaris, or Terminators, or anything other than standard troops.
This cuts out Centurions, or anything that would be useful for DSing turn 1 really. Great, you have a squad of vets and maybe an LT. Not gonna lie, that's 80pts for 1/2 units that get within 9" of the enemy, or their back field, that will be dead by turn 2 and likely won't earn their points back.
I may be wrong, but I don't see these flying off the shelves and onto tables. Primaris is king now, and these are attempts to put lipstick on a corpse.
Well every time they revise the break down more Primaris/1.0 barriers as well. I've heard the Intercessor Sarge can have a Thunderhammer hammer now. I have a strong suspicion they're going to let Primaris in a Drop Pod sooner rather than later.
I'll even add that I would be unlikely to Pod on Turn 1 - definitely not in the backfield. Someone else came up with the idea of Pod'ing Turn 1 into your own side of the board for an estimated 20 inch DS denial and that wasn't a bad idea after you do the Square Inch Math - and they should get credit, not I. A couple empty Pods landing on your own side of the board - Or landing on your own side of the board with the unit slated to camp that objective wouldn't suck too much for the points and would force your opponent to spend turns deleted the drop pods delaying their Deep Strike, or to Deep Strike into the kill box you chose for them. On turn 1, Dev Doctrine is active, and while I think it's possible to give one unit Tactical Doctrine it's Warlord Trait or CP costly, so you're spending valuable CP, or all but handing Slay The Warlord to your opponent.
I'd still Pod on turn 2 after I've moved from Dev to Tactical Doctrine.
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vaklor4 wrote: So whats to stop someone from bringing a gigantic amount of drop pods with nobody inside, and making a wall across the opponents board to stop them from moving up on turn one if you go first? This was a friend of mine's fear, and apparently spending 500+ points for basically no firepower isnt enough to sway them otherwise that this will break the meta.
What are some other flaws with this tactic besides that, which stops this from being broken?
Simply - charge the drop pods. Now you can't be shot until you get rid of them - and they can't counter charge because they can't go through their own model if the models were close enough to prevent you from going through, unless you deep strike on their side - which has all the advantages of the alpha strike problem - you pick when and where, and that's always going to be in your VP favor if you know what you're doing.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: I have skimmed the release notes, and they seem, to me at least, to be attempting to throw the OldBois some love with this, not that it will help. From what I read, it can't take Primaris, or Terminators, or anything other than standard troops.
This cuts out Centurions, or anything that would be useful for DSing turn 1 really. Great, you have a squad of vets and maybe an LT. Not gonna lie, that's 80pts for 1/2 units that get within 9" of the enemy, or their back field, that will be dead by turn 2 and likely won't earn their points back.
I may be wrong, but I don't see these flying off the shelves and onto tables. Primaris is king now, and these are attempts to put lipstick on a corpse.
Potentially* - - - UM ability to move and fire Heavy Weapons without penalty, +Dev squads with (now cheaper) Grav Cannons, plus Amp Strat for reroll wounds and damage with Grav weapons, plus Devastator Doctrine for -4 AP.
Which requires Tac Doctrine to be up. Which requires Turn 2, unless there's a stratagem I'm not familiar with.
I can't remember if it's a Warlord Trait or a Stratagem but they can give one unit the Tactical Doctrine when they're not in the Tactical Doctrine. How it interacts with Scions is unknown - You'd have to look at the wording and how strict people are going to be with it. And if it's a Trait that requires the warlord to be nearby, you just deep struck your Warlord with a suicide squad?
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: Not to be a meta purist, but it seems pointless to include buffs to a model no one owns and isn't sold in most stores anymore. This is like coming out and buffing Ratlings to make them S5 rifles.
Speaking of which, did all sniper rifles go to S5, or just marine sniper rifles? Because my command squads might want to go sniper.
I own four of them. Unfortunately only three are built. I've been meaning to get the fourth finished so it can go in the pre-cut hole in my transport case before I lose a piece, but other stuff has had higher priority on my bench.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/08/13 04:37:13
If all you want is pods to cover your own side of the table, why not just use trantulas? They’re half the cost and allow you to shoot at enemies hugging them.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: Not to be a meta purist, but it seems pointless to include buffs to a model no one owns and isn't sold in most stores anymore. This is like coming out and buffing Ratlings to make them S5 rifles.
Fezzik... a lot of people own a LOT of drop pods. Maybe you haven't been around long enough, but just last edition, Drop Pod spam was a big deal, and every Marine player I knew owned at least 3 of them, with some people owning, like, 8 of them. Believe me, they're out there. You just haven't seen them used, but many people own these. A better comparison would be to say this is like learning that a newly released TV has a bonus for using its RCA connectors. Everyone has them, but almost no one uses them, and at the moment it's still questionable as to whether or not this change is enough to get people on board with using them.
I'm willing to admit I'm wrong. But does anyone really expect to break out 3, because that's the rule now, and start turn 1 DSing, I'm guessing Dev squads, into the opponents back field?
Then again, I have zero idea what GW plans with the remaining new releases for codices, there might be a new faction bonus to 2 year old strategies from last edition. But I doubt it. GW seems laser focused on the new toys.
I did the Area math for a 4x6 and 4x8 board. Two drop pods dropping on your side will drastically limit how much of your side of the table is open for THEIR Deep Strike. You force them into the choice between delaying their deep strike while they eliminate your Drop Pod or Deep Striking into the only available space you left them - which should be the place they can least likely damage you from, and will eat the most damage in - or force them to Deep Strike in the corner where they'll still have to walk a month of Sunday's to get into the game.
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bort wrote: If all you want is pods to cover your own side of the table, why not just use trantulas? They’re half the cost and allow you to shoot at enemies hugging them.
A) Forgeworld
B) Don't already own them like my 4 drop pods from several editions of boxed sets and such.
C) It was someone else's idea, I'm just running with the theory. Its possible Tarantulas do it better if they have a roughly 20 inch no DS circle on them like the Pod Bay Doors create.
To be fair, only if they rolled for it. Drop Pod Assault/DeathWing Assault and maybe a couple others skipped the roll. Half came in on Turn 1. That's why so many people own 3 Drop Pods. Half gave you two pods on turn 1.
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AngryAngel80 wrote: I have to say, after having to fight certain posters for days about " Drop pods are the worthless junk !! you'll never win with them and basic troop marines !! "
These marine codex changes please me greatly, it looks like maybe drop pods may have some merit, especially if you can go first, being able to drop in turn 1 once more will feel good at the least being the only exception to that.
I've argued both sides of Drop Pods, because they make a great Devil's Advocate Exhibit 1.
They're not good. They're not horrible. They're Slightly Worse Than Rhino bad. They need more offensive firepower so they can't just be ignored. Instead of a Storm Bolter give them a Twin Linked 24" range Land Raider/Predator Sponson/Turrets (so Lastalon instead of Lascannon) hanging from the ceiling - they start putting out 2 Anti Tank or 10+ Anti Infantry shots a turn, and the opponent is going to start caring if that thing lives or dies on your schedule not theirs.
Turn 1 DS is unlikely to become a thing. The disconnect between Turn 1 Dev Doctrine and Deep Striking Tactical Doctrine units - or Deepstriking Devastators onto the other side of the board without support when you can DS Tactical Doctrine Units on Turn 2 with Tactical Doctrine will have most folks waiting for Turn 2 out of preference -either rules or psycholgical.
.... depending on the cost I'd take one... seriously a deployable bunker could be pretty awesome
Its not far off fluff either, there are stories about pre-fab fortifications, bunkers, and even bases/chapter Monasteries dropped from Orbit - in theory the Marines don't ride the fortification down because unlike pods, Jump Packs, and Grav Chutes its designed to hit full speed with enough impact to bury several levels down for a foundation, but we already have gravitic technology, so maybe they have a G free zone to hide in during the descent.
But you're still stuck with a fortification and the units are off the table. Maybe it will be an immobile (Drop Pod) vehicle with doors/ramps you can raise/lower (or Pretend to rather than opening the can of worms that is changing the dimensions of your model) (Open Topped) that allows them to stay on the board and shoot out of it.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/08/13 05:14:57
Fencing your opponent in with Stupid little Droppods might actually work.
I do hope not though for obvious reasons
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Fencing your opponent in with Stupid little Droppods might actually work.
I do hope not though for obvious reasons
Fencing them in always worked. This just may work easier and better because it's cheap with an annoying but not dangerous unit with a gigantic footprint per point. 130-200 points for "You Deepstrike where I want, or you deepstrike not at all" is the theme behind all sorts of screening forces. Its one of the main reasons Knights soup Guard. They don't NEED the Loyal 32 for CP - 3+ Titanic Knights will generate enough CP to have a game - its just a gravy train freebie.
Glad to see Pods making a potential comeback.
Really iconic and definitely fit the theme and idea of Marines to a tee.
Might finally get to use the 4 I bought at the very end of 7th ed.....
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
Ratius wrote: Glad to see Pods making a potential comeback.
Really iconic and definitely fit the theme and idea of Marines to a tee.
Might finally get to use the 4 I bought at the very end of 7th ed.....
Oh right now it's all theory. And it's going to be tough giving up 2W Primaris (say 175% as effective as a 1W old Marine) for a Pod. Pods won't make a REAL comeback until they finally give up, give in, and give them to Primaris. Every change they make the blur the lines a little more. Eventually they're going to give Pods to Primaris. Its just a matter of time. Pods even more than Land Raiders are too iconic.
Nazrak wrote: Anything to be said for Multi-Melta Devs in a pod? I've never been much of a fan of Grav.
I've run two drop pods containing two squads of Devs with 4 multi meltas, a basic tac squad, four vets with storm bolters and chainswords (all serjeants get the same except the Devs who just get the bolters) and vulkan H'estan.
Vulkan gives doom and guide to all the meltas and everyone else gives wounds and covering fire. 8 multi meltas rerolling everything is pretty tasty. It's not a cheap thing to deploy but it is effective.
Nazrak wrote: Anything to be said for Multi-Melta Devs in a pod? I've never been much of a fan of Grav.
I've run two drop pods containing two squads of Devs with 4 multi meltas, a basic tac squad, four vets with storm bolters and chainswords (all serjeants get the same except the Devs who just get the bolters) and vulkan H'estan.
Vulkan gives doom and guide to all the meltas and everyone else gives wounds and covering fire. 8 multi meltas rerolling everything is pretty tasty. It's not a cheap thing to deploy but it is effective.
This is the dream I live for, dropping in my Salamanders and blasting away with fire and fury. A shame our flamers are only 8"... Maybe we'll get some love in our supplement and something may increase the range of flamer weapons (stratagem?).
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
Hive Fleet Hercual - 6760pts
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