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Yeah, a stratagem/rule to increase the range of flamers by 3" would be great.

kingheff wrote:
Yeah, a stratagem/rule to increase the range of flamers by 3" would be great.

Guess you missed the Successor Chapter traits that were revealed not long ago?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kingheff wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
Anything to be said for Multi-Melta Devs in a pod? I've never been much of a fan of Grav.

I've run two drop pods containing two squads of Devs with 4 multi meltas, a basic tac squad, four vets with storm bolters and chainswords (all serjeants get the same except the Devs who just get the bolters) and vulkan H'estan.
Vulkan gives doom and guide to all the meltas and everyone else gives wounds and covering fire. 8 multi meltas rerolling everything is pretty tasty. It's not a cheap thing to deploy but it is effective.

Honestly as long as Multi-Meltas are Heavy 1 they'll never be good to use compared to Grav Cannons.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

kingheff wrote:
Yeah, a stratagem/rule to increase the range of flamers by 3" would be great.

Guess you missed the Successor Chapter traits that were revealed not long ago?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kingheff wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
Anything to be said for Multi-Melta Devs in a pod? I've never been much of a fan of Grav.

I've run two drop pods containing two squads of Devs with 4 multi meltas, a basic tac squad, four vets with storm bolters and chainswords (all serjeants get the same except the Devs who just get the bolters) and vulkan H'estan.
Vulkan gives doom and guide to all the meltas and everyone else gives wounds and covering fire. 8 multi meltas rerolling everything is pretty tasty. It's not a cheap thing to deploy but it is effective.

Honestly as long as Multi-Meltas are Heavy 1 they'll never be good to use compared to Grav Cannons.

I'm old enough to remember when they used to get a template (unless I'm so old that my memory's failing?), so yeah, this is always a bit disappointing to me. Probably my all-time favourite – from a "coolness" perspective – 40K weapon, but they're just a bit underwhelming.

They were small blast. Still not good but whatever.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

kingheff wrote:
Yeah, a stratagem/rule to increase the range of flamers by 3" would be great.

Guess you missed the Successor Chapter traits that were revealed not long ago?

Can't run Vulkan with successors.

 Orodhen wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

kingheff wrote:
Yeah, a stratagem/rule to increase the range of flamers by 3" would be great.

Guess you missed the Successor Chapter traits that were revealed not long ago?

Can't run Vulkan with successors.

Well the Salamanders rules are bad anyway so who cares? Run them as something else and get a better bonus.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They were small blast. Still not good but whatever.

They were a 4" diameter blast, which was quite good. ( S8 -4 AP 2D12 Damage ) Blasts could also hit every vehicle location they touched, too. Multimeltas were the most expensive weapon in the SM Heavy Weapons list, at 65 points (compared to a Missile Launchers 45).

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well the Salamanders rules are bad anyway so who cares? Run them as something else and get a better bonus.

You have impossibly high standards if you think free re-rolls on every unit and turning -1 AP into 0 AP is bad. Their supplement isn't even out anyways.

Orodhen wrote:

kingheff wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
Anything to be said for Multi-Melta Devs in a pod? I've never been much of a fan of Grav.

I've run two drop pods containing two squads of Devs with 4 multi meltas, a basic tac squad, four vets with storm bolters and chainswords (all serjeants get the same except the Devs who just get the bolters) and vulkan H'estan.
Vulkan gives doom and guide to all the meltas and everyone else gives wounds and covering fire. 8 multi meltas rerolling everything is pretty tasty. It's not a cheap thing to deploy but it is effective.

This is the dream I live for, dropping in my Salamanders and blasting away with fire and fury. A shame our flamers are only 8"... Maybe we'll get some love in our supplement and something may increase the range of flamer weapons (stratagem?).

The fact that this isnt already a thing is stupid. How in the hell does an Infernus CANNON only have 8" range? All I can say is that there better be buffs to flame, melta & hammers for the Sons of Nocturne.

Orodhen wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well the Salamanders rules are bad anyway so who cares? Run them as something else and get a better bonus.

You have impossibly high standards if you think free re-rolls on every unit and turning -1 AP into 0 AP is bad. Their supplement isn't even out anyways.

Why would I use a different armys rule, I play Salamanders? My dudes are green armoured, coal black skinned with red eyes, drake icons, geometric shapes and armed with a ton of flamers & melta. o you're right they should totesmcgotes be Ultras or better yet you should pick my army for me since anyone who plays Salamanders is obviously incompetent .

Why play Salamanders when you can play the Green Drakes, an Ultramarines successor chapter using the Ultramarines rules?

 Orodhen wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well the Salamanders rules are bad anyway so who cares? Run them as something else and get a better bonus.

You have impossibly high standards if you think free re-rolls on every unit and turning -1 AP into 0 AP is bad. Their supplement isn't even out anyways.

The free rerolls didn't make them good in the first place. Gaining a durability rule worse than Iron Hands and Raven Guard helps them how?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:
Why play Salamanders when you can play the Green Drakes, an Ultramarines successor chapter using the Ultramarines rules?

This guy gets it. You don't need to defend bad rules.

 Peregrine wrote:
Why play Salamanders when you can play the Green Drakes, an Ultramarines successor chapter using the Ultramarines rules?

Because you don't get special characters or direct access to chapter relics. If you can build a list without those things then by all means go successor.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

This guy gets it. You don't need to defend bad rules.

Oh no. We have choice. The horror.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Why play Salamanders when you can play the Green Drakes, an Ultramarines successor chapter using the Ultramarines rules?

Because you don't get special characters or direct access to chapter relics. If you can build a list without those things then by all means go successor.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

This guy gets it. You don't need to defend bad rules.

Oh no. We have choice. The horror.

Relic Blade + Combi-Flamer plus a Relic of some kind.

BOY that was so hard.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
This is 100% fine and should have been a part of the rules day 1, i'm more mad about the Implosor than the drop pods, that thing is so freaking cheap, its only like 10pts more than a Venom.....

If i was a marine i would just spam Impolsors and 5mans, i'd have 5-6 of them easily.

Sadly this is likely the best build. Give it the rocket or the AA stubber.

So, I'm not 100% sure but I'm about 90% sure that you can't take the invul and an extra cannon at the same time, which means the impulsors will be pretty useless as weapon platforms in a world where people are outfitting lists to deal with knights.

They're actually pretty amazing as transports but thinking you're going to successfull razorbackrush in a world where even bottom tier armies like Grey Knights and Sisters can reliably kill 3-4 non-invul rhino chassis is a bit optimistic.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Why play Salamanders when you can play the Green Drakes, an Ultramarines successor chapter using the Ultramarines rules?

Because you don't get special characters or direct access to chapter relics. If you can build a list without those things then by all means go successor.

See: "using the Ultramarines rules". Get rid of the absurd idea that how you paint your models or what stories you tell about them has anything to do with their rules.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Why play Salamanders when you can play the Green Drakes, an Ultramarines successor chapter using the Ultramarines rules?

Because you don't get special characters or direct access to chapter relics. If you can build a list without those things then by all means go successor.

See: "using the Ultramarines rules". Get rid of the absurd idea that how you paint your models or what stories you tell about them has anything to do with their rules.

Exactly, and that's the main benefit of actually painting them as "Your dudez".

ERJAK wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
This is 100% fine and should have been a part of the rules day 1, i'm more mad about the Implosor than the drop pods, that thing is so freaking cheap, its only like 10pts more than a Venom.....

If i was a marine i would just spam Impolsors and 5mans, i'd have 5-6 of them easily.

Sadly this is likely the best build. Give it the rocket or the AA stubber.

So, I'm not 100% sure but I'm about 90% sure that you can't take the invul and an extra cannon at the same time, which means the impulsors will be pretty useless as weapon platforms in a world where people are outfitting lists to deal with knights.

They're actually pretty amazing as transports but thinking you're going to successfull razorbackrush in a world where even bottom tier armies like Grey Knights and Sisters can reliably kill 3-4 non-invul rhino chassis is a bit optimistic.

Shoot my 100 point impulsor instead of my 150 point redemptor - be my guest. As Ironhands you get a 6+ FNP and half your degrading profile. I don't think a 4++ is going to help you much when most your other units don't have one. Trading guns for invuns doesn't really make sense. Espcially when it's your best gun too. I could see the 4++ for a unit of hellblasters...maybe.


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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Why play Salamanders when you can play the Green Drakes, an Ultramarines successor chapter using the Ultramarines rules?

Because you don't get special characters or direct access to chapter relics. If you can build a list without those things then by all means go successor.

See: "using the Ultramarines rules". Get rid of the absurd idea that how you paint your models or what stories you tell about them has anything to do with their rules.

Exactly, and that's the main benefit of actually painting them as "Your dudez".

Certainly. Don't think for a second I wont be playing my Ultras as Ironhands if those rules work better for me. The rules have almost nothing to do with the fluff anyways. It upsets me that I can't use the characters for my army and stuff but...way she goes.

I do mostly agree with that. An Impulsor loaded with Hellblasters or had Aggressors been legal, yeah I’d be all over the 4++ option. One loaded with 5 Intercessors? Don’t really need it. Unless my strategy relied on them all getting up the board together, sure shoot one of the sacrificial boxes instead of a better unit.

 Peregrine wrote:
Why play Salamanders when you can play the Green Drakes, an Ultramarines successor chapter using the Ultramarines rules?

One; you suggested it so I'm not sure that you are the best person to decide what Iwant to do and Two, ummmmmmm hell no. Why in the hell would I want to run my army that I've had for quite a few years, killed literally thousands of Orks & Tyranids and have painted lovingly. I should just ditch all that for a new entirely different type of army? What a jacked up way to play. O wait, I forgot who I was referring to. You should be last person anyone listens to about their own army. If I wanted to play ultras I would have, or scars, or wolves. There is absolutely zero about the other legions, chapters etc that remotely interest me.

If I want to play a different type of army, I have my Metalica & Flawless Host currently. Soon Sororitas will join.

bort wrote:
... sure shoot one of the sacrificial boxes instead of a better unit.

I almost feel like this is a strength in of itself. 100pt box that seems scary because of it's cargo. If even a few units divert shooting at it, that helps the rest of your force endure the first turn

-

 Galef wrote:

bort wrote:
... sure shoot one of the sacrificial boxes instead of a better unit.

I almost feel like this is a strength in of itself. 100pt box that seems scary because of it's cargo. If even a few units divert shooting at it, that helps the rest of your force endure the first turn

-

yup

 Xenomancers wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
This is 100% fine and should have been a part of the rules day 1, i'm more mad about the Implosor than the drop pods, that thing is so freaking cheap, its only like 10pts more than a Venom.....

If i was a marine i would just spam Impolsors and 5mans, i'd have 5-6 of them easily.

Sadly this is likely the best build. Give it the rocket or the AA stubber.

So, I'm not 100% sure but I'm about 90% sure that you can't take the invul and an extra cannon at the same time, which means the impulsors will be pretty useless as weapon platforms in a world where people are outfitting lists to deal with knights.

They're actually pretty amazing as transports but thinking you're going to successfull razorbackrush in a world where even bottom tier armies like Grey Knights and Sisters can reliably kill 3-4 non-invul rhino chassis is a bit optimistic.

Shoot my 100 point impulsor instead of my 150 point redemptor - be my guest. As Ironhands you get a 6+ FNP and half your degrading profile. I don't think a 4++ is going to help you much when most your other units don't have one. Trading guns for invuns doesn't really make sense. Espcially when it's your best gun too. I could see the 4++ for a unit of hellblasters...maybe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Why play Salamanders when you can play the Green Drakes, an Ultramarines successor chapter using the Ultramarines rules?

Because you don't get special characters or direct access to chapter relics. If you can build a list without those things then by all means go successor.

See: "using the Ultramarines rules". Get rid of the absurd idea that how you paint your models or what stories you tell about them has anything to do with their rules.

Exactly, and that's the main benefit of actually painting them as "Your dudez".

Certainly. Don't think for a second I wont be playing my Ultras as Ironhands if those rules work better for me. The rules have almost nothing to do with the fluff anyways. It upsets me that I can't use the characters for my army and stuff but...way she goes.

Maybe if you park your 4++ tank (or two) on key objectives people will have to shoot at them, rather than shoot something they want to shoot at...? No? ok...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Racerguy180 wrote:

 Galef wrote:

bort wrote:
... sure shoot one of the sacrificial boxes instead of a better unit.

I almost feel like this is a strength in of itself. 100pt box that seems scary because of it's cargo. If even a few units divert shooting at it, that helps the rest of your force endure the first turn

-

yup

Nonsense if it cant one shot a knight and then also have 100 special rules and cost 100 points its useless.

 Galef wrote:

bort wrote:
... sure shoot one of the sacrificial boxes instead of a better unit.

I almost feel like this is a strength in of itself. 100pt box that seems scary because of it's cargo. If even a few units divert shooting at it, that helps the rest of your force endure the first turn

-

Absolutely. I want them to shoot it. It is there to get shot at. It's cheap. Provides some protection to a unit I don't want to get shot at. I'll give it a missle so you can't ignore it or it can punish you a bit. I am not sure what weapon to arm it with though. Missle is okay at 17 points. Not sure the cost of the AA aray - but it is another decent option if its cost is similar. On thing that is worth noting is this puppy has a 14" move and a d6 explosion. D6 mortal explosions win games. I don't want this buddy running around with full HP. I want it in front of their characters charging into CC units trying to detonate itself late game.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Galef wrote:

bort wrote:
... sure shoot one of the sacrificial boxes instead of a better unit.

I almost feel like this is a strength in of itself. 100pt box that seems scary because of it's cargo. If even a few units divert shooting at it, that helps the rest of your force endure the first turn

-

Absolutely. I want them to shoot it. It is there to get shot at. It's cheap. Provides some protection to a unit I don't want to get shot at. I'll give it a missle so you can't ignore it or it can punish you a bit. I am not sure what weapon to arm it with though. Missle is okay at 17 points. Not sure the cost of the AA aray - but it is another decent option if its cost is similar. On thing that is worth noting is this puppy has a 14" move and a d6 explosion. D6 mortal explosions win games. I don't want this buddy running around with full HP. I want it in front of their characters charging into CC units trying to detonate itself late game.

I believe there is a strat to auto explode(not sure if its from ranged weapon or CC too)
Throwing these boats at enemies cuddled up near their HQs could be fun especialy as it has fly.

 Argive wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Galef wrote:

bort wrote:
... sure shoot one of the sacrificial boxes instead of a better unit.

I almost feel like this is a strength in of itself. 100pt box that seems scary because of it's cargo. If even a few units divert shooting at it, that helps the rest of your force endure the first turn

-

Absolutely. I want them to shoot it. It is there to get shot at. It's cheap. Provides some protection to a unit I don't want to get shot at. I'll give it a missle so you can't ignore it or it can punish you a bit. I am not sure what weapon to arm it with though. Missle is okay at 17 points. Not sure the cost of the AA aray - but it is another decent option if its cost is similar. On thing that is worth noting is this puppy has a 14" move and a d6 explosion. D6 mortal explosions win games. I don't want this buddy running around with full HP. I want it in front of their characters charging into CC units trying to detonate itself late game.

I believe there is a strat to auto explode(not sure if its from ranged weapon or CC too)
Throwing these boats at enemies cuddled up near their HQs could be fun especialy as it has fly.

Wow if that is true it is going to be amazing. Redemptors also have d6 explosions. That is a lot of potential for mortal mayhem.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Argive wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Galef wrote:

bort wrote:
... sure shoot one of the sacrificial boxes instead of a better unit.

I almost feel like this is a strength in of itself. 100pt box that seems scary because of it's cargo. If even a few units divert shooting at it, that helps the rest of your force endure the first turn

-

Absolutely. I want them to shoot it. It is there to get shot at. It's cheap. Provides some protection to a unit I don't want to get shot at. I'll give it a missle so you can't ignore it or it can punish you a bit. I am not sure what weapon to arm it with though. Missle is okay at 17 points. Not sure the cost of the AA aray - but it is another decent option if its cost is similar. On thing that is worth noting is this puppy has a 14" move and a d6 explosion. D6 mortal explosions win games. I don't want this buddy running around with full HP. I want it in front of their characters charging into CC units trying to detonate itself late game.

I believe there is a strat to auto explode(not sure if its from ranged weapon or CC too)
Throwing these boats at enemies cuddled up near their HQs could be fun especialy as it has fly.

Wow if that is true it is going to be amazing. Redemptors also have d6 explosions. That is a lot of potential for mortal mayhem.

I thinks theres going to be some hidden gems. Not sure ow much any of it costs CP etc.
I like those those land mines everyone seems to have glossed over. I think ive seen some decent MW output potential to put on top of all the new dakka boosts and some new synergies im only envious off.

Might finaly move my plans up and Strat that marine black templarish army earlier than I thought.

Am I the only one who doesn't just fish for the best rules when I field my army ? Sometimes I feel like I am.

That said, drop pods have a point again, yayyy. Even if you think their cargo sucks, it's still stuff you'll need to deal with at some point as every bit of damage done is a gain for you and it still takes up firepower to get rid of.

While I generally like this edition it gets pretty damn sad when all you see is how if something is not good if it isn't the most awesome or can crush an imperial knight. It's like a tragic echo chamber. I'd love to see a list of what from each army is considered to be " Good " I think it would be an awfully small collection of models.

 Orodhen wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

kingheff wrote:
Yeah, a stratagem/rule to increase the range of flamers by 3" would be great.

Guess you missed the Successor Chapter traits that were revealed not long ago?

Can't run Vulkan with successors.

I'd not be too suprised to see the 3 inch rule being the salamnders special rule TBH

The auto explode strat requires a vehicle with PotMS, so LR, Repulsor, or the one flyer.

bort wrote:
The auto explode strat requires a vehicle with PotMS, so LR, Repulsor, or the one flyer.

Still pretty good. Kinda temped to bust out a sucide crusader with 10 combi flamer sternaguard and an ancient.