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 Sledgio wrote:
How are people getting twin autocannons on their dreads? I'm probably being an idiot but I just can't see it in the codex.

Its an index option.

I’m pretty sure all previous content is now out of date, including my white dwarf Crimson Fists article stuff. I want the fist of vengeance back, dammit!

It’s actually a really annoying time. I want to play my marines but I don’t have all their rules. I don’t really know which units will be best for my Fists, so haven’t bought any of the new releases. I’m taking my knights to the LGT.

I did convert up a reiver lieutenant last night, kind of on a whim. I quite like the idea of a guy who goes to war armed only with a knife. He might make it into lists if I need a Phobos character for their warlord traits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, according to the post on the nova reveals, index options are going to be out for tournaments in future. These units are getting “legends” status. So far as I can tell this means GW will sell you their rules again, while making them obsolete.

I don’t think it applies to forgeworld stuff, just old GW things. So actually an autocannon dread is still possible, fielded as a Mortis one from imperial armour.

Mandragola wrote:

Also, according to the post on the nova reveals, index options are going to be out for tournaments in future. These units are getting “legends” status. So far as I can tell this means GW will sell you their rules again, while making them obsolete.

Not true.

Once we’ve assigned them their final points, they won’t be part of that ongoing balance review – and we won’t be recommending Legends units for competitive tournaments.

Its a recommendation. Just like the "rule of 3", which isnt a rule, its a recommendation as well. Tournaments make their own house rules anyway. Its up to the TO if he allows legends, or not.

 axisofentropy wrote:

 Sledgio wrote:
How are people getting twin autocannons on their dreads? I'm probably being an idiot but I just can't see it in the codex.

index options are still allowed... FOR NOW

Gotcha. Thanks!

Right, not recommended for tournaments. Which means many if not all tournaments will ban them, because the people who wrote the rules say they aren’t supported.

The rule of three may only be a recommendation, but it’s one that every tournament I know of uses. I expect the same here.

 p5freak wrote:

Xirax wrote:
Captain with jump pack, teeth of terra, storm shield and hero of the chapter (the imperium's sword) feels tasty for it's points. 9 attacks on rerollable charges. S6 ap -2 D2. Anyone used one yet?

Why would you waste his BS 2+ by not giving him a ranged weapon ? You need to get within 1" of enemy models to be able to do something, fail your charge and you do nothing. Why not shoot right away with combi plasma or combi melta, after deepstriking, and charge later ?

There's a pretty big difference in survivability between a 3++ and 4++. Also, you can easily get an 8" rerollable charge with successor tactics and Imperiums' Sword. Even better when you're White Scars successor and add Fierce Rivalries for a nearly guaranteed charge out of DS, rendering your ranged weapon moot.

Anyhow, I'm going to try out a White Scars slashcaptain soon-ish. Mastercrafted Lightning Claw, SS, JP, Imperiums' Sword and Chogorian Storm. Gives 7-9 S5 AP -2 D2 attacks that reroll hits and wounds on the charge, upped to AP-3 D3 from T3 onwards. All for 109 points if I'm not mistaken.

This Captian should have 8-10 attacks if he charges.
4 Profile
1 Pair of Claws
1 from WL
1 Shock Attack
D3 second WL.
Sounds worth for 103 points.

Give him the additional warlord trait to wound monsters and vehicle +1

He has already two WL.

Maxamato wrote:
This Captian should have 8-10 attacks if he charges.
4 Profile
1 Pair of Claws
1 from WL
1 Shock Attack
D3 second WL.
Sounds worth for 103 points.

No, I'm opting for a Storm Shield instead of a second claw because the second claw can't be mastercrafted and 3++ is so much better than 4++ IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

demontalons wrote:
Give him the additional warlord trait to wound monsters and vehicle +1

Not sure about that, I feel that +1 to wound biggies isn't worth loosing on average 2A on the charge over (and with WS tactics he can charge every turn).

You guys should talk to BA players who have failed a re-rolled 9" charge with 3D6. I am one of them.

 p5freak wrote:
You guys should talk to BA players who have failed a re-rolled 9" charge with 3D6. I am one of them.

It does happen about 1/16th of the time.

It's still pretty reliable.

Pandabeer wrote:

Maxamato wrote:
This Captian should have 8-10 attacks if he charges.
4 Profile
1 Pair of Claws
1 from WL
1 Shock Attack
D3 second WL.
Sounds worth for 103 points.

No, I'm opting for a Storm Shield instead of a second claw because the second claw can't be mastercrafted and 3++ is so much better than 4++ IMO.

Ah, ok.

 p5freak wrote:
You guys should talk to BA players who have failed a re-rolled 9" charge with 3D6. I am one of them.

Well, there's also a 3.5% chance you'll fluke your melta-shot or blow yourself up when you overcharge plasma. Thing is, in a dice game you can't guarantee anything. Hell, a short while ago I managed to roll 5 1s for the attack rolls for my Greater Possessed, a chance of a little more than 1/8000.

Only thing you can do is take what works best on average, and I feel I will on average be better served by a 3++ than a ranged attack when I have an about 85% chance to make the charge from DS.

 Xenomancers wrote:
You can only attack what you charge my friend. Every Iron hands unit is going to be doublely as effective in overwatch as a tau sept unit. Charging them is going to be equally as fatal as tau FTGG on average. Or it's just not going to kill that much on a successful charge. Ignore overwatch is not really that common. Plus it's not as if a BA smash captain is not one of the most busted units in 40k. Iron hands CT is indefensibly good.

Agree to disagree. I think you are overeating like you did with the replusor nerf. The two main armies I play in 8th don't really care about the better overwatch, Tau and RG. Tau don't charge and my RG have answers to overwatch in the form of a warlord trait and suppressors. Also my RG only tend to charge what they didn't kill in shooting or something that is already in melee with my units. Charging one thing and then piling into something else to tie it up in melee is something I see people do all the time. A lot of SM unit's overwatch isn't scary enough to scare off the things that commonly charge my lines at tournaments like: Knights, Demon Princes, Plaguebearers, etc. In fact if the Iron Hands only got 2 of those traits, say Scions of the Forge and the 6++, I think we would be talking about how IH got shafted vs. the other chapters.

ERJAK wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
I think this errata was already covered. If a unit has fly the fly bit about falling back and shooting trumps the chapter tactic.

No, it doesnt. You must follow all rules when playing. And its specific trumps generic. The generic rule is that FLY units can shoot after falling back. The specific UM chapter tactic says they suffer a -1 to hit when falling back.

Isn't that specific trumps generic thing also a major assumption being made? I haven't seen it specifically written anywhere in 8th edition yet, but I admit I may have stupidly missed it since I rarely if ever have to actually argue rules in an actual game. It's not like anybody was playing Inceptors and Suppressors as if they received that nerf anyway before it applied to vehicles.

Thats how the rules work. The generic core rules are the basis, they tell you what you can do, and you cant do. The special rules like stratagems, chapter tactics, abilities on a units datasheet, etc., allow you to do things you couldnt normally do.

"That's how it works" doesn't really answer my question. Where does it say that this is how it works?

In this case, a general rule overwriting a specific one would make more sense than the opposite, so why is it assumed that a specific rule for a subfaction overwrites the rules of Fly?

It doesn't. The specific over generic thing didn't carry to 8th.

Congratulations, you can no longer use Honour The Chapter because units cannot be selected fight more than once in the fight phase as per the Core Rules.

Specific over General is necessarily required or else all of the specific rules don't work.

Is there a FAQ that clears up if all previous marine stuff is dead or is that just what we are guessing is happening?

It seems reasonable that all the stuff from codex 1.0 is gone since there is a new codex but stuff released not in that codex (white dwarf, vigilus) would still be good. Screws over my Ravens but it shouldn't be too long of a wait to see what is in their splat book (although they can keep that Shrike model).

bananathug wrote:
Is there a FAQ that clears up if all previous marine stuff is dead or is that just what we are guessing is happening?

It seems reasonable that all the stuff from codex 1.0 is gone since there is a new codex but stuff released not in that codex (white dwarf, vigilus) would still be good. Screws over my Ravens but it shouldn't be too long of a wait to see what is in their splat book (although they can keep that Shrike model).

They released a pdf with datasheets for the characters that aren't out yet. https://www.warhammer-community.com/downloads/. The datasheets are the same as the old codex. I think we are still waiting on word from GW about WD and vigilus.

I am not a huge fan of the Shrike model either but the issues most people have can be fixed with minor conversion work. Though it is good to see Shrike finally has a gun.

 Blood Hawk wrote:
Though it is good to see Shrike finally has a gun.

Its actually just a pistol shaped grenade for that extra surprise factor.

Sterling191 wrote:

 Blood Hawk wrote:
Though it is good to see Shrike finally has a gun.

Its actually just a pistol shaped grenade for that extra surprise factor.

Xirax wrote:
Captain with jump pack, teeth of terra, storm shield and hero of the chapter (the imperium's sword) feels tasty for it's points. 9 attacks on rerollable charges. S6 ap -2 D2. Anyone used one yet?

I’m curious too since Frontline kept talking up the Teeth, but the nonPrimaris thing seems to have kept anyone from putting it in a list here.

Personally, I was thinking go with Champion of Humanity over Sword (I think I have the names right?) as that one gives +1 to wound vs characters and the big things I’d like my captain to kill are usually character keyworded. I regret losing the charge reroll, but +1 wound with str 5 seems nicer than str 6. But I don’t want to snap my thunder hammers off until some others chime in or I get some test games in.

bort wrote:

Xirax wrote:
Captain with jump pack, teeth of terra, storm shield and hero of the chapter (the imperium's sword) feels tasty for it's points. 9 attacks on rerollable charges. S6 ap -2 D2. Anyone used one yet?

I’m curious too since Frontline kept talking up the Teeth, but the nonPrimaris thing seems to have kept anyone from putting it in a list here.

Personally, I was thinking go with Champion of Humanity over Sword (I think I have the names right?) as that one gives +1 to wound vs characters and the big things I’d like my captain to kill are usually character keyworded. I regret losing the charge reroll, but +1 wound with str 5 seems nicer than str 6. But I don’t want to snap my thunder hammers off until some others chime in or I get some test games in.

why go with a Captain when you can do the same thing with a chaplain. Also while I get to a certain point the teeth of terra, being a wounding on 5's blender is less smash captain than a S8-9 chaplin with damage 4 and mortal wounds? The one thing the captain is better at is blending hordes but why throw away a Captain for that?

Ice_can wrote:
why go with a Captain when you can do the same thing with a chaplain.

Chappys dont have access to chainswords or storm shields.

The Teeth of Terra is a great relic, have a librarian with MoH nearby and thats 10 str 7 attacks that you can double up for 3 CP. Combo that with whirlwind for additional hits on 6's and we have our own mini-blender.

Also, terminators seem really good all of a sudden. For fun I ran 10 TH/SS terminators, not a point efficient investment, with a +2 to charge chaplain w/JP and a librarian with VoT. Combined with fury of the first, and Trans-human physiology Terminators have become MUCH more versatile. The 10TH/SS terminators I brought actually made their points back (killed 6 hiveguard plus a whole bunch of other bugs) and only ever took one wound in the process. Still not super competitive due to screening

However, standard terminators will absolutely have a place now. Between Bolter-Discipline, Shock Attack, Trans-human Physiology, Fury of the first, +2 to charge litany, improved salamander/IH CTs, and doctrines terminators have become a swiss army knife that can pump out utility every phase of the game except psychic

Have: 1x10 or 2x5 terminators and a JP chaplain, all SB/PF
T1: have a JP chaplain on the board, move near the position that you want the terminators to drop, but don't over-extend, teleport homers are placed on your backfield/flanks/objectives
T2: Chaplain uses the +2 charge litany, use a CP re-roll if it fails. Move chaplain to desired dropzone (total range of 12+12+2d6+6 inch range between both moves, advances, and aura) for terminators, drop terminators and swap to tactical doctrine (if necessary), mow down what chaff you need to, ensure you still have a 9" charge target nearby. In the assault phase, charge and pop fury of the fallen to make those power fist hurt. Tie down what you can to prevent the enemy from shooting back
T3: If the terminators have survived unscathed, keep them fighting. If they are close to death or being surrounded by enemies that you want to shoot, teleport homer them out and maintain that flexibility.

I don't have any normal terminators, but I might actually get some. They just seem to scream versatile all of a sudden, which what I like in marines.

Sterling191 wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
why go with a Captain when you can do the same thing with a chaplain.

Chappys dont have access to chainswords or storm shields.

Who needs a Chainsword when you have benediction of fury, they both have 4++'s and jump packs, they can risk tanking a number of shots on the 4++ and if it's really that scary you should be charging from out of line of sight so the 3++ isn't making a massive difference.

The Captain wouldn’t be wounding on 5s vs characters, it’d be wounding on 4s due to trait. The relic Chaplain will hit harder, but I already need the captain for rerolls. If presuming a Libby handy for MoH, I’d probably stick with the thunderhammer for str 9.

bort wrote:
The Captain wouldn’t be wounding on 5s vs characters, it’d be wounding on 4s due to trait. The relic Chaplain will hit harder, but I already need the captain for rerolls. If presuming a Libby handy for MoH, I’d probably stick with the thunderhammer for str 9.

maybe I'm coming at this differently as I am currently running Calgar for that 4CP bonus over a Captain plus strategum.

But in a straight up chaplin vrs Captain choice I'd have to say I still think the chaplin works out as flat 4 damage is crazy against charictors when your hitting and wounding on 2+.
If your talking knights with MoH around he's wounding on 3+ as S9 otherwise 4+.

Sure, if you already have the reroll chapter master then yeah. I’m trying to avoid any named characters until the rest of the marine supplements are out and I settle on a chapter, so no Calgar.

Has anyone seen a limit to the number of Chaplain Litanies that can be cast on a unit, or a limit to how many times a Litany can be cast in a turn? Ie, can I cast the same Litany on two different units, or cast different Litanies on the same unit?

chaplain is 3+ to gain litany - makes it unviable as a fighter.