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I'm looking forward to them and wish there would be more insane stuff psyker wise. they should be cool models at minimum.

It will be interesting to see how they implement it for non pskyer factions.

 fraser1191 wrote:

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:
Oh good, even more buffs to a phase several races can't even participate in.

And if anyone says that Necrons, DE, Tau etc. will get their own versions of these (presumably not requiring psykers), my response is that I'll believe it when I see it.

I mean, these races are also supposed to have psychic defence in one form or other, yet in all cases it's basically nonexistent.

Korne units in AoS have endless spells soo I guess your argument is invalid?

Reread my last sentence and try again.

I hope that at least Tau get something a bit more creative than some drones. A Kroot psyker who summons ghost knarlocs or a Nicassar who creates a movable singularity or something similar.

Though it'll probably just be a bland forcefield drone or mech fixing nanoswarm.

 Overread wrote:

As for releases, well that doesn't really hold much argument toward anything. Endless Spells for factions have been coming out as GW updates Battletomes since the Stormcast Tome for 2.0. This means that every timea new 2.0 tome has come out the faction has typically got terrain and endless spells. So sure the Khorne one wasn't at launch, but nor were the Skaven or Slaanesh. There's a few 2.0 Tomes without spells (Idoneth and Daughters of Khaine), but GW can easily release them once they've got a release window for those factions.

Idoneth, Daughters of Khaine, and Nurgle were all pre-AOS2.0.

The Necron version I could see them transforming several of the C’Tan powers to an Endless version.

But what could the Tau possibly get? Modified forms of Invoke the Elements? Micro-marker or mini-gun swarms? Battle holograms and force fields?

 ServiceGames wrote:
It simply doesn't fit in 40K. Khorne for example hates all psykers, so there'd be no one around to manifest the spells. Black Templars don't have Librarians, so there'd be no one around to manifest the spells.

Way too many issues with 40K and endless spells.

SG

maybe but dark apostles carrying out rituals that thins the viel between the warp and reality thus having some sort of impact on the battlefield is a pretty 40k thing


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormonu wrote:
The Necron version I could see them transforming several of the C’Tan powers to an Endless version.

But what could the Tau possibly get? Modified forms of Invoke the Elements? Micro-marker or mini-gun swarms? Battle holograms and force fields?

Squatted? j/k

I thought everybody hated templates...

I don't actually care about endless spells per se, I mostly just don't want GW to be fething around with the psychic phase. It never ends well.

ERJAK wrote:
I don't actually care about endless spells per se, I mostly just don't want GW to be fething around with the psychic phase. It never ends well.

Psychic phases often don’t end well for psychics already, with the Perils of the Warp and all :p

I would hope we don’t see the absurd psychic phases of 6/7E, but GW rarely learns its lesson. It’s also partly why I’m not interested in seeing this psychic invasion to the game.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Overread wrote:

As for releases, well that doesn't really hold much argument toward anything. Endless Spells for factions have been coming out as GW updates Battletomes since the Stormcast Tome for 2.0. This means that every timea new 2.0 tome has come out the faction has typically got terrain and endless spells. So sure the Khorne one wasn't at launch, but nor were the Skaven or Slaanesh. There's a few 2.0 Tomes without spells (Idoneth and Daughters of Khaine), but GW can easily release them once they've got a release window for those factions.

Idoneth, Daughters of Khaine, and Nurgle were all pre-AOS2.0.

However they are all 2.0 compatible Battletomes made for that edition, just released before the edition started, so they are fully functional Tomes right now. They are unlikely to get brand new Tomes, just a model release with warscroll cards in the box and on the website.

While I think they are a neat idea for AoS I just don't think the idea of faction themed magic effect models really fits into 40k.

I would like them for Chaos, Orks or Even Necrons, but I don't see how Tau or the Imperium would really fit the idea thematically.

Anything that moves tends to be seen as a warp beast and I can't imagine such a manifestation earning a IoM psyker anything other than a commisar's bullet.

Lets see, do I want to pay more to buy more models so my existing models can use their powers? No, I don't think I do.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
I would like them for Chaos, Orks or Even Necrons, but I don't see how Tau or the Imperium would really fit the idea thematically.

Anything that moves tends to be seen as a warp beast and I can't imagine such a manifestation earning a IoM psyker anything other than a commisar's bullet.

Imagine this (except as a wolf instead of a bull) as a psychic power for a Rune Priest.

 Ghaz wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:
I would like them for Chaos, Orks or Even Necrons, but I don't see how Tau or the Imperium would really fit the idea thematically.

Anything that moves tends to be seen as a warp beast and I can't imagine such a manifestation earning a IoM psyker anything other than a commisar's bullet.

Imagine this (except as a wolf instead of a bull) as a psychic power for a Rune Priest.

Spoiler:

Right. Because Space Wolves are really lacking on the whole wolf front at the moment.

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
Lets see, do I want to pay more to buy more models so my existing models can use their powers? No, I don't think I do.

But this is a very odd point considering that its a miniatures game where the whole point, commercially, is you buying more models for your army.
GW is always going to release new models for the game which they hope you will buy into because that's sort of their business model. It's no where near as predatory as, say, Magic the Gathering where they expect you to buy a new whole edition of cards every few months and cycles out a whole edition at the same time. With 3 or 4 blocks a year like that.

The boxed sets for AoS have been very reasonable in price and you don't have to use them either; armies can be built and work great without them or with only one or two at key moments.

Personally I'd rather pay points for a model I can put on the table than pay points for things like battalions which only modify the stats of models.

I think they work in AoS because the setting is fundamentally a high fantasy one, where such things fit in well. In 40k, psychic powers and magic are there, but a sideline. They should not be in the spotlight. I like them as an accent. Even the armies that have a strong affinity for magic still use it to supplement other aspects of the army. The might be buffs, debuffs, or the equivelent of magic guns.

But I think endless spells would swing 40k a little too far into space magic high fantasy, where the wizards a center stage, and the troopers are just sidelined as targets.

IMHO, YMMV, etc.

No. God no.

I can't stand Endless Spells.

I'm having a bit of a break from AoS this year after it being my main game in 2018 - the main reason for this is Endless Spells and Faction-Specific Terrain pieces. For me, they just end up being another thing to have to buy and paint and account for when all I want to do is focus on my army itself. I'm also not the biggest fan of the "bolt on an additional system" method of expanding the games content and complexity.

 Overread wrote:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
Lets see, do I want to pay more to buy more models so my existing models can use their powers? No, I don't think I do.

But this is a very odd point considering that its a miniatures game where the whole point, commercially, is you buying more models for your army.
GW is always going to release new models for the game which they hope you will buy into because that's sort of their business model. It's no where near as predatory as, say, Magic the Gathering where they expect you to buy a new whole edition of cards every few months and cycles out a whole edition at the same time. With 3 or 4 blocks a year like that.

The boxed sets for AoS have been very reasonable in price and you don't have to use them either; armies can be built and work great without them or with only one or two at key moments.

Personally I'd rather pay points for a model I can put on the table than pay points for things like battalions which only modify the stats of models.

Of course it makes financial sense for GW, they'd really be stupid not to, because it won't make anyone leave over just that. At least not enough people to matter, and I wouldn't, I'd just grumble about it and not buy the spell models. I'm not sure how battalions work in AoS, I literally just got my first models, but do you have to pay for formations? In terms of points?

The Psychic phase is bad enough at the moment without adding more crap to it. If GW want to do something with Psykers and the Psychic phase I don't think making it more lethal would be the right direction to take.

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
I'm not sure how battalions work in AoS, I literally just got my first models, but do you have to pay for formations? In terms of points?

Battalions are like formations. You have a specified set of models that can comprise the battalion and of them there are minimum and maximum limits for each one. The battalion then gives all the units within it a bonus for being part of it and that bonus removes through the whole game no matter how much of the battalion is left alive. To get the bonus you have to pay for the whole battalion in points, this is on top of the individual model cost for each unit in the battalion.

Battalions also give you a command point as well (they upped the prices of them a while back which was basically tacking 50points or so on for the command point).

They are also deployed at the same time.


One additional bonus is that some armies have battalions hwich have an allied force within them; this can let you take more units from that allied army than you normally would with the allies rule as the battalion operates outside of the allies limitations in AoS.

I think too many people got caught up in the idea of "endless spells"

When it is broken down they are basically more like fortifications. Some thing you can buy that makes your force better, or does some effect to the enemy that goes on the table.

In reality the Haywire Mine that Incursor's have is already a 40K "endless spell". Its a model that you prepay for, that goes on the table, and has an effect under some circumstances.

 Haanz wrote:
No. God no.

I can't stand Endless Spells.

I'm having a bit of a break from AoS this year after it being my main game in 2018 - the main reason for this is Endless Spells and Faction-Specific Terrain pieces. For me, they just end up being another thing to have to buy and paint and account for when all I want to do is focus on my army itself. I'm also not the biggest fan of the "bolt on an additional system" method of expanding the games content and complexity.

This PLUS the fact that many factions need actual models for their units. These spells are far from being a priority.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

This PLUS the fact that many factions need actual models for their units. These spells are far from being a priority.

Good thing that the spells are literally not produced in the same places as the unit models?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

This PLUS the fact that many factions need actual models for their units. These spells are far from being a priority.

Good thing that the spells are literally not produced in the same places as the unit models?

I think assume that this has zero impact on design focus or release schedule is optimistic. VERY optimistic.

Endless Spells in W40K would be my ticket to quitting and going back to the Legend of the Five Rings card game.

W40K is about guns, not magic.

 oni wrote:
Endless Spells in W40K would be my ticket to quitting and going back to the Legend of the Five Rings card game.

W40K is about guns, not magic.

Don't tell the Eldar.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 oni wrote:
Endless Spells in W40K would be my ticket to quitting and going back to the Legend of the Five Rings card game.

W40K is about guns, not magic.

Don't tell the Eldar.

or chaos

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

This PLUS the fact that many factions need actual models for their units. These spells are far from being a priority.

Good thing that the spells are literally not produced in the same places as the unit models?

I think assume that this has zero impact on design focus or release schedule is optimistic. VERY optimistic.

We've actually gotten a 'look behind the curtains' as to design focus.

The sculptors doing vehicles aren't doing infantry and the sculptors doing the Endless Spells for AOS aren't even the same ones doing scenery. There's effectively dedicated teams.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

This PLUS the fact that many factions need actual models for their units. These spells are far from being a priority.

Good thing that the spells are literally not produced in the same places as the unit models?

I think assume that this has zero impact on design focus or release schedule is optimistic. VERY optimistic.

We've actually gotten a 'look behind the curtains' as to design focus.

The sculptors doing vehicles aren't doing infantry and the sculptors doing the Endless Spells for AOS aren't even the same ones doing scenery. There's effectively dedicated teams.

So they expanded the team? I was going to answer that with an expanded team they could update models and fix a lot of "holes" they have in the line, but I suppose this would not be a fair criticism, because the effort needed for one or more of these spell is not necessarily the same needed for, say, new aspect warriors.
I am still a bit confused by GW's priorities, but I think this at least addresses my doubts. Nonetheless, the post I quoted above still stands.