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as an ork player it is kind of infuriating that a lot of our HQs are index only and now will be seemingly nto for use in tournaments when our best HQ is an index only option.

Does anybody actually believe GW's claim that they'll support Legends forever?

I think they'll do well to be supported beyond the end of this edition, so maybe a year or two tops.

It is all as predicted. Just want to laugh at those who dismissed me when I said they'd encourage the index options less and less.

 G00fySmiley wrote:
as an ork player it is kind of infuriating that a lot of our HQs are index only and now will be seemingly nto for use in tournaments when our best HQ is an index only option.

Hey maybe well get lucky and get that BT/Ork box set with a new HQ. Probably not, but one can dream.

 G00fySmiley wrote:
as an ork player it is kind of infuriating that a lot of our HQs are index only and now will be seemingly nto for use in tournaments when our best HQ is an index only option.

It's not even that. It's "a couple HQs that are more point efficient and/or safer than the codex options". The wartrike IS the new warboss on a bike despite desires to deliver the relic klaw as cheaply and easily as possible, because mathammer tells you it will efficiently hurt a knight.

 fraser1191 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
I think this is more opening up formats for 40k.

Now you have all of the current models legal for general play but now you'll have a legends format where everything is legal.

At least GW isn't coming out saying "yeah all those index units are never gonna be supported ever again, so use them as paper weights"

In essence it's a polite way of saying screw you your models count for nothing anymore.
Doesn't make it better, especially when we get 10000000000000000 marine books

How? They said they were gonna support it forever and on a case by case basis tournaments are gonna host them. Weren't indexes not aloud to be used at tournaments before?

Not all Formats allowed them.
Additionally the community has also taken over other tournament suggestions soo yes, in Essence if you own a FW army that ends up in legends you potentially are fethed.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Does anybody actually believe GW's claim that they'll support Legends forever?

I think they'll do well to be supported beyond the end of this edition, so maybe a year or two tops.

Well they could release one book with all the units in and keep it as direct order online for years to come?

 Ishagu wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Does anybody actually believe GW's claim that they'll support Legends forever?

I think they'll do well to be supported beyond the end of this edition, so maybe a year or two tops.

Well they could release one book with all the units in and keep it as direct order online for years to come?

Nope, they'll make it a gak epub with a doccument format so annoyingly stupid that you lose braincells just using it.

 Ishagu wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Does anybody actually believe GW's claim that they'll support Legends forever?

I think they'll do well to be supported beyond the end of this edition, so maybe a year or two tops.

Well they could release one book with all the units in and keep it as direct order online for years to come?

honestly I see them doing it every edition. the book will sell well enough and they just set values for points, input wargear as it was and every edition tens of thousands of people will buy the book to play with their old toys. As somebody with a large collection and several models out of print or conversions for never released models... i can say i would buy that book every edition assuming nothing in my financial situation changes significantly. currently as a $40 book i would look at it as not quite an hours wage and say yea.. thats a book worth an hour of work for me.

Karol wrote:
Isn't there a rule that says you can't get new rules without new models?

You can't get rules for units that don't have models.

However, you can have new rules without needing new models.

Bear in mind that Warlord Traits, Stratagems, Artefacts etc. are all rules but none are reliant on having new models.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
as an ork player it is kind of infuriating that a lot of our HQs are index only and now will be seemingly nto for use in tournaments when our best HQ is an index only option.

It's not even that. It's "a couple HQs that are more point efficient and/or safer than the codex options". The wartrike IS the new warboss on a bike despite desires to deliver the relic klaw as cheaply and easily as possible, because mathammer tells you it will efficiently hurt a knight.

He does not look like a Warboss, nor does he he have Warboss rules.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Does anybody actually believe GW's claim that they'll support Legends forever?

I think they'll do well to be supported beyond the end of this edition, so maybe a year or two tops.

If 9th is a cleaned up version of 8th, then it's not a big deal to do whatever minimal changes are needed to Legends to support the promise. It could be 20 years till the next total reboot.

redboi wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
as an ork player it is kind of infuriating that a lot of our HQs are index only and now will be seemingly nto for use in tournaments when our best HQ is an index only option.

It's not even that. It's "a couple HQs that are more point efficient and/or safer than the codex options". The wartrike IS the new warboss on a bike despite desires to deliver the relic klaw as cheaply and easily as possible, because mathammer tells you it will efficiently hurt a knight.

He does not look like a Warboss

Quite debatable when this guy is a warboss:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Ork-Warboss-with-Big-Choppa

nor does he he have Warboss rules.

So, use the Warboss on foot. In a horde melee army that gets reroll any dice for charging adding infantry advance and charge bubble to a 14" move model up ends making it far too easy to just push a giant blob of models into someone's face. Or, if your goal is to have a low-effort way to deliver S12 rerollable wound attacks to a knight more easily than a smash captain.

Let's face it. If the wartrike had the relic klaw this wouldn't even be a conversation.

I think it is a good thing that they have a solid plan for legacy models, and I hope and believe that they will keep this working trough edition changes.

Ultimately your models will still be usable. Of course there is a huge segment of people who think that playing with toy soldiers is super serious business, and random games in a local store must follow the strictest possible tournament standards and thus will refuse to use these perfectly valid rules. I also expect at least half of those people will complain about units being removed, whilst in reality they have just been moved into Legends. Oh well, that's really not GWs fault.

A big question is what will happen to a relatively recent plastic units that still do not have a proper codex. Assassins, SoS, the Inquisition (well, Greyfax...) I really think they should make a dedicated 'Imperial Agents' book in which these could go. They could also put various Killteam and BSF stuff in there. Rogue Traders, Navigators etc. It doesn't need to be a proper army, just write the rules so that you can easily spice up your Imperial army with those units without losing your army boni.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Karol wrote:

Cool, I didn't know that. Everyone keep scaring me with Grey knight being given no new rules anymore.

I don't think you need to be scared. Grey Knights occupy a very specific place in the lore. That GW has said in no uncertain terms that GK won't be Primaris'd, but that doesn't mean they're going away. It might even mean people worried about old marines going away might also be overblown.

Add onto that Inquisition getting the nod for Psychic Awakening makes me very unconcerned for the future of GK.

Inquisition didn't get a nod on the Psychic Awakening graphic (unless they've redone it for a third time) - Deathwatch, Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle all did.

Which means, Karol, you'll see new rules for something relating to Grey Knights during that cycle of books. I've no idea what, mind you, but something.

 Crimson wrote:
Of course there is a huge segment of people who think that playing with toy soldiers is super serious business

People don't universally follow MP rules because they're seriously serious, they do it because these rules give at least a semblance and hope of balance and fairness and a chance for their army to get fixed in the future and stay relevant.

I think the more ironic issues with Legends is it is going to drive people to Competitive play.

Some model combo in it is going to be stupid broken. Maybe just Castellan with Raven Strat, or maybe some new ruling that affects something and makes them broken.

And then they have no path to fix it.

And then people hate playing it, and want to not play it, and ohh over here is Competitive play where Jimmy doesn't get to play stupid no fun Whatever it is.

 Dysartes wrote:


Inquisition didn't get a nod on the Psychic Awakening graphic (unless they've redone it for a third time) - Deathwatch, Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle all did.

Which means, Karol, you'll see new rules for something relating to Grey Knights during that cycle of books. I've no idea what, mind you, but something.

*Shrug* - the character in the video is an ordo xenos inquisitor.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Does anybody actually believe GW's claim that they'll support Legends forever?

I think they'll do well to be supported beyond the end of this edition, so maybe a year or two tops.

I never believe GW marketing speak. Legends will only last for a year or two, or until 9th edition, whichever comes sooner.

 lolman1c wrote:
It is all as predicted. Just want to laugh at those who dismissed me when I said they'd encourage the index options less and less.

Well, it's a good thing you haven't allowed that bitterness to fester or anything.

 lolman1c wrote:
It is all as predicted. Just want to laugh at those who dismissed me when I said they'd encourage the index options less and less.

The community was doing that just fine on its own.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Does anybody actually believe GW's claim that they'll support Legends forever?

I think they'll do well to be supported beyond the end of this edition, so maybe a year or two tops.

I never believe GW marketing speak. Legends will only last for a year or two, or until 9th edition, whichever comes sooner.

Well, I expect them to be around for a long time. As Warscroll compendium style pdfs that no one uses because they're awful in game.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Karol wrote:

Cool, I didn't know that. Everyone keep scaring me with Grey knight being given no new rules anymore.

I don't think you need to be scared. Grey Knights occupy a very specific place in the lore. That GW has said in no uncertain terms that GK won't be Primaris'd, but that doesn't mean they're going away. It might even mean people worried about old marines going away might also be overblown.

Add onto that Inquisition getting the nod for Psychic Awakening makes me very unconcerned for the future of GK.

Inquisition didn't get a nod on the Psychic Awakening graphic (unless they've redone it for a third time) - Deathwatch, Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle all did.

Which means, Karol, you'll see new rules for something relating to Grey Knights during that cycle of books. I've no idea what, mind you, but something.

Sister did not get a nod in PA. Neither did SW.

ERJAK wrote:


Sister did not get a nod in PA. Neither did SW.

SW seems like just as graphic goof.

 vipoid wrote:

Karol wrote:
Isn't there a rule that says you can't get new rules without new models?

You can't get rules for units that don't have models.

However, you can have new rules without needing new models.

Bear in mind that Warlord Traits, Stratagems, Artefacts etc. are all rules but none are reliant on having new models.

I guess Grey Knight are special then, because we don't have a brother captin, librarian or chapter master, but we do have rules for them.

Which means, Karol, you'll see new rules for something relating to Grey Knights during that cycle of books. I've no idea what, mind you, but something.

Well as long as is not going to be nerfs, it is going to be interesting to get new stuff.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

ERJAK wrote:


Sister did not get a nod in PA. Neither did SW.

SW seems like just as graphic goof.

They pulled and fixed the image to include the folks they left out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Karol wrote:

I guess Grey Knight are special then, because we don't have a brother captin, librarian or chapter master, but we do have rules for them.

You may want to tell GW that, because they're currently selling all three on their webstore.

Sterling191 wrote:


You may want to tell GW that, because they're currently selling all three on their webstore.

So they did - good stuff.

You may want to tell GW that, because they're currently selling all three on their webstore.

they are selling them, but those are resin models. And they no longer make new ones fo those. And the articles says that units GW no longer makes,nothing about no longer sells, are going to be moved to legend. Stores that aren't GW can't order the resin models, at least my store can't, and the polish GW store has them on other only, as they don't have them on site.

Karol wrote:

You may want to tell GW that, because they're currently selling all three on their webstore.

they are selling them, but those are resin models. And they no longer make new ones fo those. And the articles says that units GW no longer makes,nothing about no longer sells, are going to be moved to legend. Stores that aren't GW can't order the resin models, at least my store can't, and the polish GW store has them on other only, as they don't have them on site.

If you don't count Resin (or even older Metals), they don't "make" half the Eldar line.

Karol wrote:

they are selling them, but those are resin models. And they no longer make new ones fo those. And the articles says that units GW no longer makes,nothing about no longer sells, are going to be moved to legend. Stores that aren't GW can't order the resin models, at least my store can't, and the polish GW store has them on other only, as they don't have them on site.

Thats not even remotely an accurate understanding of how they're doing the 40K Legends.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

redboi wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
as an ork player it is kind of infuriating that a lot of our HQs are index only and now will be seemingly nto for use in tournaments when our best HQ is an index only option.

It's not even that. It's "a couple HQs that are more point efficient and/or safer than the codex options". The wartrike IS the new warboss on a bike despite desires to deliver the relic klaw as cheaply and easily as possible, because mathammer tells you it will efficiently hurt a knight.

He does not look like a Warboss

Quite debatable when this guy is a warboss:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Ork-Warboss-with-Big-Choppa

nor does he he have Warboss rules.

So, use the Warboss on foot. In a horde melee army that gets reroll any dice for charging adding infantry advance and charge bubble to a 14" move model up ends making it far too easy to just push a giant blob of models into someone's face. Or, if your goal is to have a low-effort way to deliver S12 rerollable wound attacks to a knight more easily than a smash captain.

Let's face it. If the wartrike had the relic klaw this wouldn't even be a conversation.

He doesn't look like a proper warboss anymore either There is a reason everyone converts theirs. You must have missed the part where ork players are always asking for a warboss kit. But the wartriker is even smaller than him. He's more like a nob with a shrunken head.

IDK why you are trying to make it controversial to want a biker boss. It's been a pretty standard classic option forever. Don't let him take a relic claw IDGAF. If that was the only issue I can already take a warboss on foot and jump/DS him and have 95% the same effect.