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I got an old metal hellhound turret and it has some browing on it.
Does that mean it is lead? I personally do not wanna work with a lead model anywhere near me.
If someone can help me, that would be great.

No, pewter doesn't rust, and neither does lead. They can oxidise, which is the same process that leads to rust on iron, but rust is exclusively something that occurs in ferrous metals.

All they really do is darken and tarnish.

 Azreal13 wrote:
No, pewter doesn't rust, and neither does lead. They can oxidise, which is the same process that leads to rust on iron, but rust is exclusively something that occurs in ferrous metals.

All they really do is darken and tarnish.

Then what would the red stuff on the model be?

Old paint most likely.

Could be from paint stripping - show us a photo.

These guys

I'd say that's from paint stripping and is just a tiny bit of staining/paint that didn't quite fully come off. If it bothers you give it a second paint stripping, but it looks fine enough/staining enough that you can just spray right over it without any issues what so ever.

I mean, looking it up, it looks like GW stopped useing lead before this was made.
I was just curious/wondering, I have say thing before in metal models, and i buy alot

It might just be whoever or whatever they paint stripped it with wasn't done as strongly- considering that its attached to plastic they might have been more conservative to avoid plastic melting issues (some stripping chemicals are fine on metal but can react with plastic or can react if left in it for too long).

Oh boy...

...that's...


...I hope you already have your affairs in order.

 Alpharius wrote:
Oh boy...

...that's...


...I hope you already have your affairs in order.

I hate you.................
Me and my anxiety. hypochondria doesnt need this
*Chugs another Monster, the 50th today*

Look, this isn't an opinion it's a matter of scientific fact.

Lead doesn't rust. When it oxidises it turns from a silvery shiny finish to black. Ergo the red staining is not as a result of lead, even if it is present in the metal.

End of story.

It's probably the uranium.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Look, this isn't an opinion it's a matter of scientific fact.

Lead doesn't rust. When it oxidises it turns from a silvery shiny finish to black. Ergo the red staining is not as a result of lead, even if it is present in the metal.

End of story.

It's probably the uranium.

I know, Thanks for telling me that.
I just never saw this before.

Red paint?

 Azreal13 wrote:
Red paint?

I mean, I guess.
I can useually tell when a model was stripped, but this didnt look like a strip job to me. I was just being cautious is all which is why i posted it.

Having dealt with a lot of old pewter - it happens. It happens to unpainted pewter some times. Not sure what it is, but it's completely normal. I've had it happen to stuff new from GW (old stock, like 15 years or more). Don't worry about it.

PS: You have like seven days to live, tops.

 Elbows wrote:
Having dealt with a lot of old pewter - it happens. It happens to unpainted pewter some times. Not sure what it is, but it's completely normal. I've had it happen to stuff new from GW (old stock, like 15 years or more). Don't worry about it.

PS: You have like seven days to live, tops.

I guess I never encountered it.
Also, I only have seven days to live cause of that VHS tape

Wait, you saw the tape also? Well, that's a power combo, you're now down to three days.

Point of note:

It's an alloy, not pure "lead" to start with. These "white metal alloys" (WMAs) often contained lead but also other metals, like tin, bismuth, antimony, etc to aid in casting and flow control as well as detail retention.
The old hellhound immolator cannon dates from the mid 90s, when GW had already shifted to "lead free" (they upped the tin content in the metal, and swapped out the lead for bismuth).

It could be due to the bismuth content - bismuth oxide does have a pink tinge.

It could also be leftover paint staining. Acetone will remove the paint and any oxidation on the surface, but would have killed the plastic parts. A less aggressive solvent tends to stain the material left (and even then, where the staining goes comes down to surface irregularities).

All things being equal it won't affect anyting in the end. I have lead-free pewter models from more than 20 years ago, and yes, they all start to develop a yellowish tinge, or sometimes a darkening in places instead. I've never had that matter at all when it comes to using them as miniatures. I have assembled and primed models that took glue and paint perfectly fine, despite being tarnished as all hell.

I've found that stripping pewter models in Simple Green darkens them a lot of times, too, but they all end up performing fine as models.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I got an old metal hellhound turret and it has some browing on it.
Does that mean it is lead? I personally do not wanna work with a lead model anywhere near me.
If someone can help me, that would be great.

Just clean them in Purple Power or Simple Green, dry them right and then base coat them with your primer. You'll be fine.

Defo some rusty pewter right there

If it isn’t leftover paint, it is likely an “impurity” in the pewter.

*even if* it was lead, as long as you aren’t grinding it and inhaling the dust, you’re fine. Only by ingesting lead is it harmful. That said, don’t lick your fingers without washing them.

Lastly, if you minimize the handling before priming it... no real risk either. You could use dollar store latex gloves if you’re paranoid about it. Once primed, the * hypothetical* lead is contained.

Those aren't lead, but you've got more chance of been poisoned by breathing in 4star leaded fuel than that small inferno cannon

I believe that model is too "new" to be lead.
I never found out what metal the new "lead free" models were made of when they were that white metal.

Pewter, whilst it may contain lead (if you wish it) is mostly Tin with less Antimony.

But lead does have some variants of oxides that are red... namely Lead Tetroxide.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%28II%2CIV%29_oxide
Apparently it's toxic only when dissolved in Hydrochloric acid - so if you eat it. No probs in your hands.
Also it's pretty hard to make without a specific chemical reaction (calcification).

Interesting this compound of Lead (Latin name: minium) gave it's name to "miniatures".

 chromedog wrote:

The old hellhound immolator cannon dates from the mid 90s, when GW had already shifted to "lead free" (they upped the tin content in the metal, and swapped out the lead for bismuth).

As a lead-free obsessive like the OP, a quick correction:

It's true that GW shifted to lead-free models in North America in the early 90s. I think it was around 1993.

However, they kept using lead for their metal minis in the UK until 1997. The first major 'lead-free' release was the Epic 40,000 range. This was around the time they started having 'Great Lead Sales' to clear out their stock of lead minis for cheap. Some lead production in other ranges appears to have continued for a while after this. I have a couple of 2nd ed Necron Warriors that are clearly lead, and those models weren't released until almost a year after they started using 'white metal'.

This has led to a small but amusing amount of confusion on both sides of the Atlantic.

For example, if you buy secondhand miniatures on eBay from the UK (or here in Australia, which imported UK stock), most 2nd edition Epic models are lead. But the same models in the same blisters from the US are pewter.

I have a few old Epic 'Space Marine' Predators with the classic domed turrets that are lead-free because they came from an American blister pack. The same minis from the UK would be lead alloy.

I also have a Hellhound from 1995 with the same metal turret as in the OP's post. Mine is definitely lead. But the OP's turret might be pewter if it was produced for the North American market.


I'm no expert, but as I understand it, the advantages of lead-alloy minis are:

a) they're cheaper to produce (which is why a lot of smaller miniatures companies still use them, especially in the UK and Australia)

b) they're softer and therefore easier to drill, cut and convert, as well as bend back into place without snapping in the case of long thin bits like spears

c) paint sticks to them better, making them less likely to chip.


The disadvantages of lead-alloy minis are:

a) they're softer, so the detail can smush if they get squashed or fall off a table onto a hard floor, and you can accidentally bend pointy bits out of shape by breathing in their general direction

b) they're harder to strip because the paint sticks to them--if you've ever stripped a lead mini with Simple Green, you'll find that the paint clings to the crevices like seaweed and needs to be gently pried loose, whereas on a 'white metal' mini it either lifts off without trouble (if it was given a brush-on undercoat) or kinda flakes off while stubborn bits refuse to budge (in the case of spray paint

c) they're heavier, which can matter a great deal when you have to pin a joint, or when it's a big metal kit standing on a styrofoam hill

d) they're toxic and will kill you in thirty minutes flat. And then raise you from the dead with an insatiable hunger for paaaaint.

OK, that last one might have been a bit of an exaggeration. But like the OP, I try to avoid lead minis whenever possible. They're safe enough if you're an adult, and take care to wash your hands and clean up after any drilling or cutting. But I don't much like handling minis partly made from a heavy metal that may well be responsible for most of the massive crime waves of the 20th century. I also sawed and drilled a lot of lead minis in my teen years without realising they were lead, because I blithely assumed nobody used lead alloys anymore. I didn't suffer any obvious health problems, but I had a bit of a freakout a few years later when I suddenly realised how careless I'd been.

Besides, lead is extremely dangerous to children. (Apparently the whole 'chewing' thing happens because lead tastes good.)

Lead minis are highly appropriate for anything Nurgle, though.

(Edited to correct the date when GW started phasing out lead in the UK.)

Lead tends to oxidize with a white powder like crust on it. Pewter is a bismuth alloy mix so it has tin copper, zinc, and other metals in it which varies depending on the maker. All of those have a slightly different melting and burn point so if the temperature control isn't just right it can cause some of the metals to burn and leave brownish marks on the surface. They also use talc powder on the molds which can also scorch leaving a brown or black mark in addition to a gritty feeling surface. If you handle a lot of metal minis and your finger tips are tinged grey or black it's the talc residue.

I've had freshly melted and poured pewter come out with brown tints to them that look like they'd been stained on the surface with coffee or tea, it's just a result of the metals overheating and not being mixed enough but it's still perfectly viable for wargaming with and doesn't impact it, paint it and you won't even know it's there.

Red is likely to be some of the mold material, to make the vulcanized molds they use pre-made rubber discs, there's 3 primary colors green, red, and black which indicate the different levels of softness. As they age they can leave small amounts of residue bound on the surface and then eventually chunks start breaking off and might be stuck to the surface of the model or partially embedded in it.