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Cato Sicirus at Damnos comes to mind immediatly as a named Marine char whose been defeated.
The fact that your "gotcha nerd" example here of some, any, space marine character of significance suffering even a non-fatal defeat (And winning the battle by blowing up the planet anyway lol) came from the time before Necron lore got retconned three game editions ago should tell you something about how much of a useful counter-point that is.
Yah Cato's defeat was actually a crushing victory by the time the story was finished. Does anyone else remember the time Cato took a vortex grenade pass from Marneus through the Necron defense and sank a three pointer winning the game with 0.0001 seconds left on the clock? Because I do and I hated it lol.
It's almost like Abandon didn't put Calgar in the hospital in the last campaign book, but I guess that a "gotcha nerd" example
But he didn't lose fam?
The imperium still holds Vigilus despite the "insurmountable odds" and the defeat Marneus suffered was actually just as planned tm was it not?
We got another preview yet or what?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/16 14:30:32
No, the Imperium decided to suicide bomb Horus' ship, whose captain then tried save his ass by jumping into the warp.
Abbaddon and Haarken thought the guy was actually trying to steal the ship and went after it. They wasted about two minutes discussing the thing and then left Calgar lying there instead of taking thirty seconds or so to stick a krak grenade into his armor before leaving. or you know, Abbaddon going after his daddy's ship while Haarken finishes off the chapter master of the Ultramarines.
Calgar did get crushed pretty hard though.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
So what you're actually saying is "because you have a small chaos Daemons force and some generic chaos marine releases, you don't need kits or models for your own subfaction".
You can make the daemons element as big or as little if you like.
No, what I'm saying is that I'll have some sympathy for your cause when my subfaction has its own specific models and rules also.
I'm also saying that I think its very unlikely GW release more Chaos marines (but this time in pink!!) when they just released a ton of chaos marines in black.
Maybe Evil Sunz deserve a book or release as well, although I think you'd be hard pressed to tell me what different untis etc they have compared to the existing Ork list, where as Emperors Children has clearly defined differences and well laid out fluff detailing this. Hell, even if they gave them a plastic noise marine kit, that would be fair.
If EC, WE, DG and TS deserve a book, Evil Sunz or Speed Freeks (however you want to slice it) absolutely deserve a book. Their play style should be completely different to other Ork clans. They are also functionally the same thing as any other sub faction. I'm not trying to advocate for special treatment here by the way, just the same treatment for my faction that SM and CSM enjoy. I'd like this for all factions too. Not just mine.
Further there are plenty of unique models they could have, here's an idea to start - how about the 5 or so bike character models we lost to legends? Why don't GW take 5 minutes away from writing the same marine on marine fiction they've done for decades to give other sub factions a bit of a fluff focus?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jidmah wrote: No, the Imperium decided to suicide bomb Horus' ship, whose captain then tried save his ass by jumping into the warp.
Abbaddon and Haarken thought the guy was actually trying to steal the ship and went after it. They wasted about two minutes discussing the thing and then left Calgar lying there instead of taking thirty seconds or so to stick a krak grenade into his armor before leaving. or you know, Abbaddon going after his daddy's ship while Haarken finishes off the chapter master of the Ultramarines.
Calgar did get crushed pretty hard though.
That's what I mean sorry. It was Calgar's plan was it not?
Like he knew he would get a whooping and he was just trying to stall. Which is exactly what he did.
So even when the hero tier marines lose, it's on purpose
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/16 14:36:42
So what you're actually saying is "because you have a small chaos Daemons force and some generic chaos marine releases, you don't need kits or models for your own subfaction".
You can make the daemons element as big or as little if you like.
No, what I'm saying is that I'll have some sympathy for your cause when my subfaction has its own specific models and rules also.
I'm also saying that I think its very unlikely GW release more Chaos marines (but this time in pink!!) when they just released a ton of chaos marines in black.
Maybe Evil Sunz deserve a book or release as well, although I think you'd be hard pressed to tell me what different untis etc they have compared to the existing Ork list, where as Emperors Children has clearly defined differences and well laid out fluff detailing this. Hell, even if they gave them a plastic noise marine kit, that would be fair.
If EC, WE, DG and TS deserve a book, Evil Sunz or Speed Freeks (however you want to slice it) absolutely deserve a book. Their play style should be completely different to other Ork clans. They are also functionally the same thing as any other sub faction. I'm not trying to advocate for special treatment here by the way, just the same treatment for my faction that SM and CSM enjoy. I'd like this for all factions too. Not just mine.
Further there are plenty of unique models they could have, here's an idea to start - how about the 5 or so bike character models we lost to legends? Why don't GW take 5 minutes away from writing the same marine on marine fiction they've done for decades to give other sub factions a bit of a fluff focus?
I'm more than happy for them to get supplements, slap out a £20 60 page book of fluff, a couple of hqs and novelty speed rules and done. That's a fair supplement.
What emperors children need is a complete codex with kit support. Speed freakz are a sub faction of orks, emperors children should be a full faction.
I dont have a horse in this race fyi, I do have chaos marines but have played red corsairs for the last few years. So my level of support is the same as the ork klans at this stage
So what you're actually saying is "because you have a small chaos Daemons force and some generic chaos marine releases, you don't need kits or models for your own subfaction".
You can make the daemons element as big or as little if you like.
No, what I'm saying is that I'll have some sympathy for your cause when my subfaction has its own specific models and rules also.
I'm also saying that I think its very unlikely GW release more Chaos marines (but this time in pink!!) when they just released a ton of chaos marines in black.
Maybe Evil Sunz deserve a book or release as well, although I think you'd be hard pressed to tell me what different untis etc they have compared to the existing Ork list, where as Emperors Children has clearly defined differences and well laid out fluff detailing this. Hell, even if they gave them a plastic noise marine kit, that would be fair.
If EC, WE, DG and TS deserve a book, Evil Sunz or Speed Freeks (however you want to slice it) absolutely deserve a book. Their play style should be completely different to other Ork clans. They are also functionally the same thing as any other sub faction. I'm not trying to advocate for special treatment here by the way, just the same treatment for my faction that SM and CSM enjoy. I'd like this for all factions too. Not just mine.
Further there are plenty of unique models they could have, here's an idea to start - how about the 5 or so bike character models we lost to legends? Why don't GW take 5 minutes away from writing the same marine on marine fiction they've done for decades to give other sub factions a bit of a fluff focus?
I'm more than happy for them to get supplements, slap out a £20 60 page book of fluff, a couple of hqs and novelty speed rules and done. That's a fair supplement.
What emperors children need is a complete codex with kit support. Speed freakz are a sub faction of orks, emperors children should be a full faction.
I dont have a horse in this race fyi, I do have chaos marines but have played red corsairs for the last few years. So my level of support is the same as the ork klans at this stage
I dont doubt the EC will get a release sooner rather than later.
With a great stonking huge four armed snake Fulgrim and a musical menagerie.
So what you're actually saying is "because you have a small chaos Daemons force and some generic chaos marine releases, you don't need kits or models for your own subfaction".
You can make the daemons element as big or as little if you like.
No, what I'm saying is that I'll have some sympathy for your cause when my subfaction has its own specific models and rules also.
I'm also saying that I think its very unlikely GW release more Chaos marines (but this time in pink!!) when they just released a ton of chaos marines in black.
Maybe Evil Sunz deserve a book or release as well, although I think you'd be hard pressed to tell me what different untis etc they have compared to the existing Ork list, where as Emperors Children has clearly defined differences and well laid out fluff detailing this. Hell, even if they gave them a plastic noise marine kit, that would be fair.
If EC, WE, DG and TS deserve a book, Evil Sunz or Speed Freeks (however you want to slice it) absolutely deserve a book. Their play style should be completely different to other Ork clans. They are also functionally the same thing as any other sub faction. I'm not trying to advocate for special treatment here by the way, just the same treatment for my faction that SM and CSM enjoy. I'd like this for all factions too. Not just mine.
Further there are plenty of unique models they could have, here's an idea to start - how about the 5 or so bike character models we lost to legends? Why don't GW take 5 minutes away from writing the same marine on marine fiction they've done for decades to give other sub factions a bit of a fluff focus?
I'm more than happy for them to get supplements, slap out a £20 60 page book of fluff, a couple of hqs and novelty speed rules and done. That's a fair supplement.
What emperors children need is a complete codex with kit support. Speed freakz are a sub faction of orks, emperors children should be a full faction.
I dont have a horse in this race fyi, I do have chaos marines but have played red corsairs for the last few years. So my level of support is the same as the ork klans at this stage
This is going way off topic now but there is absolutely no reason that EC deserve a full codex and not any other sub faction. EC, as far as I'm concerned, are simply Slaanesh worshipping Chaos marines with a penchant for noise. Is that their only unique unit? The noise marine? You want them to have an entire codex for that and Fulgrim? If your response is "no AAE they should have new models bruuu" then I ask why should that be any different to another sub faction?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/16 17:14:09
While I really like the Klaivex and I'll probably be getting plastic Incubii I have to say that it's not been worth a weeks wait for that. especially when GW obviously still prefer trying to sell Marines with their five different articles on marines.
I look forwards to another week of us arguing about the lore of Eldar though.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
pm713 wrote: While I really like the Klaivex and I'll probably be getting plastic Incubii I have to say that it's not been worth a weeks wait for that. especially when GW obviously still prefer trying to sell Marines with their five different articles on marines.
Agreed. This campaign is going to take an eternity if this is their pace. Since this first campaign book is focused on Eldar vs Eldar action it's going to be even longer before we see anything that isn't a space elf. Lame.
I wonder what next week is? Jain Zar? Vect?! Jain Vect?! Vect Zar?! I guess Jain Zar but I would love it if it's literally anything else just to throw us off. Ideally a new Avatar model.
I do tend to agree that Games Workshop is spreading these announcements out too thin. The reason for it, in my eye, is stir up variety in their release schedule in the upcoming months.
So what you're actually saying is "because you have a small chaos Daemons force and some generic chaos marine releases, you don't need kits or models for your own subfaction".
You can make the daemons element as big or as little if you like.
No, what I'm saying is that I'll have some sympathy for your cause when my subfaction has its own specific models and rules also.
I'm also saying that I think its very unlikely GW release more Chaos marines (but this time in pink!!) when they just released a ton of chaos marines in black.
Maybe Evil Sunz deserve a book or release as well, although I think you'd be hard pressed to tell me what different untis etc they have compared to the existing Ork list, where as Emperors Children has clearly defined differences and well laid out fluff detailing this. Hell, even if they gave them a plastic noise marine kit, that would be fair.
If EC, WE, DG and TS deserve a book, Evil Sunz or Speed Freeks (however you want to slice it) absolutely deserve a book. Their play style should be completely different to other Ork clans. They are also functionally the same thing as any other sub faction. I'm not trying to advocate for special treatment here by the way, just the same treatment for my faction that SM and CSM enjoy. I'd like this for all factions too. Not just mine.
Further there are plenty of unique models they could have, here's an idea to start - how about the 5 or so bike character models we lost to legends? Why don't GW take 5 minutes away from writing the same marine on marine fiction they've done for decades to give other sub factions a bit of a fluff focus?
I'm more than happy for them to get supplements, slap out a £20 60 page book of fluff, a couple of hqs and novelty speed rules and done. That's a fair supplement.
What emperors children need is a complete codex with kit support. Speed freakz are a sub faction of orks, emperors children should be a full faction.
I dont have a horse in this race fyi, I do have chaos marines but have played red corsairs for the last few years. So my level of support is the same as the ork klans at this stage
This is going way off topic now but there is absolutely no reason that EC deserve a full codex and not any other sub faction. EC, as far as I'm concerned, are simply Slaanesh worshipping Chaos marines with a penchant for noise. Is that their only unique unit? The noise marine? You want them to have an entire codex for that and Fulgrim? If your response is "no AAE they should have new models bruuu" then I ask why should that be any different to another sub faction?
Parity. Death guard and thousand sons are as divergent fluff wise as emperors children. Currently you would have capacity for:
Fulgrim
Lucius
Doomrider
Noise marines
Fabius Bile
Kakophoni (heavy sonic weapons)
The reject experiment marines
Sonic dreads
Subjugators could be repurposed into here
Plus any shared units.
All previous existing kits or entries, what speed freaks units are missing?
On topic, it's about time the rest of the dark eldar range got fleshed out in plastic.
An Actual Englishman wrote: This is going way off topic now but there is absolutely no reason that EC deserve a full codex and not any other sub faction. EC, as far as I'm concerned, are simply Slaanesh worshipping Chaos marines with a penchant for noise. Is that their only unique unit? The noise marine? You want them to have an entire codex for that and Fulgrim? If your response is "no AAE they should have new models bruuu" then I ask why should that be any different to another sub faction?
It's a fair question. Putting aside real-world economic reasons why the DG and TS got their own codexes, the fluff basically says that they need their own codexes because they are substantially different in structure and operation from the other Traitor Legions. The EC apparently aren't, since they're included in the generic Chaos Space Marines codex. That being said, if GW wants to give them a full codex with a new model range, I could see the argument being that as Fulgrim (or Angron for the WE) takes a more active hand, he reforms the Legion to his liking, away from the more "standard" Black Legion model. Otherwise, it'll be interesting to see how GW rolls out Fulgrim if the EC don't get a full codex.
To tie it back into Psychic Awakening, I do wonder if we're going to see a new Primarch or Daemon Primarch come out of this. I'd have to think that it'd be Fulgrim if it's a Daemon Primarch (much as my heart wishes it was Lorgar; the Word Bearers could use the help).
EDIT - Actually, I think what I'd first like to see is some mechanic for preventing Daemon Primarchs from getting tabled on turn 1 from long-range fire (at least for Magnus and Mortarion; Fulgrim presumably would have access to a Dark Apostle who could offer some first turn protection).
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/09/16 17:37:14
