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I get that there’s nothing else to talk about, but I’d rather the post just stays blank until each Mondays discussions..

I come back every few days to update and have to wade through a lot of OT chat, which would be a good thing to read in the Gen Discussion etc..

 Burnage wrote:

 silverstu wrote:

Darsath wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Soooo what are those rumours saying for psychic awakening guys?

What do people think is going to be included in the first book?

Why are we talking about special characters and their validity in the game? They ain't going anywhere guys. Let's move on.

The news about the first release has been so slow. They're stretching this thing out for far too long. I'm hoping there's a lot more substance to the release, and it's more like a Codex 2.0 to match the lead time.

Yeah I hope so but I get the feeling that this is pretty much it- 2 kits and 2 special characters, at leats for now as the focus has been very tight to the banshees and Incubi. Maybe they are teeing up for a larger codex related release early next year though? Did the revised chaos codex come with Vigilus or a bit after? I can't remember?

This is something that's confusing me. Four updated datasheets don't feel like enough for a whole new book, but that seems to be all that they're teasing for Phoenix Rising. Then again, the reveals are also getting dragged out, so maybe we'll see more rules-based stuff after Drazhar's new model is unveiled.

Could be more data sheets for existing models- they've only really teased the model side of things. 2 kits and 2 characters fits in as something GW can do between big releases like the Bone Osiarchs and SoB. It would work for other factions who don't need big model updates like Nids. I'm hoping if that is it for the campaign the Eldar range gets a fuller release later/maybe with an updated codex. Seems like the way they release models is changing so we can't really tell- there seems to be smaller releases or larger releases broken up into smaller waves.

Maybe this is GW's way of gradually updating the Eldar range without having to devote space to updates during their next Codex release (leaving that space for new stuff in order to drive sales).

So maybe it starts off with Banshees vs. Incubi, especially since those two groups were most involved with the Ynnari faction when the Ynnari first came on the scene. Maybe Drazhar gets revealed as Arhra, then maybe after that they dribble Karandras and the Scorpions in, justifying it as Karandras getting involved in order to fight against his former master. And so on...

Iracundus wrote:
Maybe this is GW's way of gradually updating the Eldar range without having to devote space to updates during their next Codex release (leaving that space for new stuff in order to drive sales).

So maybe it starts off with Banshees vs. Incubi, especially since those two groups were most involved with the Ynnari faction when the Ynnari first came on the scene. Maybe Drazhar gets revealed as Arhra, then maybe after that they dribble Karandras and the Scorpions in, justifying it as Karandras getting involved in order to fight against his former master. And so on...

It's also likely GW testing out new release patterns. In the past they pretty much only updated things with a big codex launch; now they are experimenting with drip fed models instead. Which isn't a bad idea. Big drops of lots of models cost a lot to buy into and increase the chance of someone burning out before they've finished. Instead smaller updates spread out not only increases the chance of morep eople being able to pick up each sculpt as they come out, but also increases the amount of long term attention an army gets. Instead of a 1 month blast of marketing its now capable of being spread out over 6 and with the same amount of investment!

 Overread wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Maybe this is GW's way of gradually updating the Eldar range without having to devote space to updates during their next Codex release (leaving that space for new stuff in order to drive sales).

So maybe it starts off with Banshees vs. Incubi, especially since those two groups were most involved with the Ynnari faction when the Ynnari first came on the scene. Maybe Drazhar gets revealed as Arhra, then maybe after that they dribble Karandras and the Scorpions in, justifying it as Karandras getting involved in order to fight against his former master. And so on...

It's also likely GW testing out new release patterns. In the past they pretty much only updated things with a big codex launch; now they are experimenting with drip fed models instead. Which isn't a bad idea. Big drops of lots of models cost a lot to buy into and increase the chance of someone burning out before they've finished. Instead smaller updates spread out not only increases the chance of morep eople being able to pick up each sculpt as they come out, but also increases the amount of long term attention an army gets. Instead of a 1 month blast of marketing its now capable of being spread out over 6 and with the same amount of investment!

Yes and my bank account appreciates that! Redoing the aspects in plastic is a big undertaking and releasing them all at once would be overwhelming, especially financially as not everyone has a lot of spare cash lying around. Tying in the Phoenix Lords as well fills things out a bit.

 Burnage wrote:

 silverstu wrote:

Darsath wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Soooo what are those rumours saying for psychic awakening guys?

What do people think is going to be included in the first book?

Why are we talking about special characters and their validity in the game? They ain't going anywhere guys. Let's move on.

The news about the first release has been so slow. They're stretching this thing out for far too long. I'm hoping there's a lot more substance to the release, and it's more like a Codex 2.0 to match the lead time.

Yeah I hope so but I get the feeling that this is pretty much it- 2 kits and 2 special characters, at leats for now as the focus has been very tight to the banshees and Incubi. Maybe they are teeing up for a larger codex related release early next year though? Did the revised chaos codex come with Vigilus or a bit after? I can't remember?

This is something that's confusing me. Four updated datasheets don't feel like enough for a whole new book, but that seems to be all that they're teasing for Phoenix Rising. Then again, the reveals are also getting dragged out, so maybe we'll see more rules-based stuff after Drazhar's new model is unveiled.

Add in a few formations and battlefield 'zone' rules.

GW isn't exactly shy these days about putting out books with less than 10 pages of rules content- see the SM supplements (except ultras). Vigilius and gathering storm books weren't exactly high on rules content either, or at least they were never described as having a lot of rules- I never bothered to buy them myself (GW's campaign books are largely shovelware products- the last one of any note was Armageddon, just for the sheer number of army lists).

As much as I love new models, I'm just as interested to see what new rules we can expect.

So far the new rules have been somewhat underwhelming and, though we don't have the full picture, I'm not hearing the same noise from the podcasts about these releases that they had for the powerhouse that is the SM codex 2.0.

 silverstu wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Maybe this is GW's way of gradually updating the Eldar range without having to devote space to updates during their next Codex release (leaving that space for new stuff in order to drive sales).

So maybe it starts off with Banshees vs. Incubi, especially since those two groups were most involved with the Ynnari faction when the Ynnari first came on the scene. Maybe Drazhar gets revealed as Arhra, then maybe after that they dribble Karandras and the Scorpions in, justifying it as Karandras getting involved in order to fight against his former master. And so on...

It's also likely GW testing out new release patterns. In the past they pretty much only updated things with a big codex launch; now they are experimenting with drip fed models instead. Which isn't a bad idea. Big drops of lots of models cost a lot to buy into and increase the chance of someone burning out before they've finished. Instead smaller updates spread out not only increases the chance of morep eople being able to pick up each sculpt as they come out, but also increases the amount of long term attention an army gets. Instead of a 1 month blast of marketing its now capable of being spread out over 6 and with the same amount of investment!

Yes and my bank account appreciates that! Redoing the aspects in plastic is a big undertaking and releasing them all at once would be overwhelming, especially financially as not everyone has a lot of spare cash lying around. Tying in the Phoenix Lords as well fills things out a bit.

This is assuming any other aspect gets the refresh that banshees might be getting/that GW actually has interest in continuing such a large xenos release.

Scorpions, Dragons, Spiders, Reapers, Hawks and Spears - 6 very distinct kits that have existed continuously since the dawn of 40k, with 6 supporting pheonix lord characters.

If this was a new primaris marine release, that many sprues of investment would be nothing, but that's an equivalent number of sprues as the Ork speed freek release (each Speed Freek buggy was a single sprue). Orks are arguably the single safest Xenos army to release kits for, and that was the biggest xenos release since the necron relaunch.

I would be extremely happy if they decided to refresh all the aspects. I really do not think that's actually in the cards. GW is just too risk-averse when it comes to any real support for xenos armies.

Here is some pure speculation: Anyone think Phoenix Rising will include actual non-White Dwarf rules for Ynnari? Could be just the index printed in a rule book or an improved version of those rules.

 Overread wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Maybe this is GW's way of gradually updating the Eldar range without having to devote space to updates during their next Codex release (leaving that space for new stuff in order to drive sales).

So maybe it starts off with Banshees vs. Incubi, especially since those two groups were most involved with the Ynnari faction when the Ynnari first came on the scene. Maybe Drazhar gets revealed as Arhra, then maybe after that they dribble Karandras and the Scorpions in, justifying it as Karandras getting involved in order to fight against his former master. And so on...

It's also likely GW testing out new release patterns. In the past they pretty much only updated things with a big codex launch; now they are experimenting with drip fed models instead. Which isn't a bad idea. Big drops of lots of models cost a lot to buy into and increase the chance of someone burning out before they've finished. Instead smaller updates spread out not only increases the chance of more people being able to pick up each sculpt as they come out, but also increases the amount of long term attention an army gets. Instead of a 1 month blast of marketing its now capable of being spread out over 6 and with the same amount of investment!

They said a while back they wanted to move away from codex centered releases, it was when they acknowledged the common complaint of people having to wait years for codices to be updated before getting any new releases. I think GW would now prefer these event centered releases. I think its also a particularly good way to handle the armies that have a bunch of out of date models that just need updated sculpts, but where the unit rules aren't changing.

 aka_mythos wrote:
They said a while back they wanted to move away from codex centered releases, it was when they acknowledged the common complaint of people having to wait years for codices to be updated before getting any new releases. I think GW would now prefer these event centered releases. I think its also a particularly good way to handle the armies that have a bunch of out of date models that just need updated sculpts, but where the unit rules aren't changing.

They're in the process of releasing a new Marine Codex with 6 supplemental Codices.

They're not moving away from Codex-centred releases at all!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
They said a while back they wanted to move away from codex centered releases, it was when they acknowledged the common complaint of people having to wait years for codices to be updated before getting any new releases. I think GW would now prefer these event centered releases. I think its also a particularly good way to handle the armies that have a bunch of out of date models that just need updated sculpts, but where the unit rules aren't changing.

They're in the process of releasing a new Marine Codex with 6 supplemental Codices.

They're not moving away from Codex-centred releases at all!

"moving away from" might not be the best way to put it, but considering plastic Banshees & Incubi are being released with no indication of new CWE or DE codices coming, we can say that Codex centered releases are no longer the primary way GW wants to release new minis. It's a mix of Codex and Campaign releases

-

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:


I'm guessing you didn't actually read the story and are relying on good ol' 1d4chan inaccuracies.

Except I did though? I'm pretty sure Marneus Calgar did beat an Avatar of Khaine in single combat, and Draigo wrote on Mortarion's heart. Sure, the Demon Primarch was wounded from fighting a bunch of other Grey Knights, but that doesn't make the heart tattoo any less stupid.

So you didn't actually read the Draigo story is all you're admitting. Good to know.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
No, not even close. Special characters were so terribly priced you had no choice to let your opponent use them.

The rules explicitly said you had to ask opponent's permission. Even if it was allowed every time, it still marked special characters as an extra, rather than an integral component of the core game, as they are now.
[edit]Wait, you were not saying that they were not extra, you were saying that they were not fine back then because they were too expensive! Well, models intended for narrative play being unbalanced is not that big of a deal because they aren't intended for competitive play. Rather I get to play a cool custom jump pack canoness than being stuck playing Celestine almost every game because it's the only viable HQ option, and literally the only HQ jump pack option…

You're complaining about Sisters options. I could've seen that coming a mile away

So I see you have other problems going on rather than Special Characters not needing permission, nor should there ever have been a need for permission.

 Galef wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
They said a while back they wanted to move away from codex centered releases, it was when they acknowledged the common complaint of people having to wait years for codices to be updated before getting any new releases. I think GW would now prefer these event centered releases. I think its also a particularly good way to handle the armies that have a bunch of out of date models that just need updated sculpts, but where the unit rules aren't changing.

They're in the process of releasing a new Marine Codex with 6 supplemental Codices.

They're not moving away from Codex-centred releases at all!

"moving away from" might not be the best way to put it, but considering plastic Banshees & Incubi are being released with no indication of new CWE or DE codices coming, we can say that Codex centered releases are no longer the primary way GW wants to release new minis. It's a mix of Codex and Campaign releases

-

Marines are different. A mix of codex and campaign releases is pretty much what we should expect even if Marines get special treatment and end up with more books than all xenos combined. GW had picked up the pace of codex releases in 6th and 7th ed and they've gone to a lot of trouble to get out all codices (except Inquisition/Imperial Agents) out for 8th ed as quickly as possible. Since they couldn't provide every 8th ed codex with model releases there's no reason to keep going at that pace, and since every codex is reasonably up to date there's no reason to update a (non-Marine) codex if all they have to offer is one or two new kits. The codex is still for sale and people tempted into the new models may pick up the codex to play the army as well as the campaign book their new rules feature in. There's not desperate need anymore to release a codex just because there are new models for that army.

Marines get all those supplements not because or in spite of GW's general release model going forward but because they're Marine books and they'll sell.

It's probably better to look at the coming campaign books as providing GW with the means to update a couple of kits for the NPC armies while at the same time having a reason (not that they need one) to release more Marines alongside them. It's a good way to not decrease the shelf life of books even further while accomplishing the same thing, in effect.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:


I'm guessing you didn't actually read the story and are relying on good ol' 1d4chan inaccuracies.

Except I did though? I'm pretty sure Marneus Calgar did beat an Avatar of Khaine in single combat, and Draigo wrote on Mortarion's heart. Sure, the Demon Primarch was wounded from fighting a bunch of other Grey Knights, but that doesn't make the heart tattoo any less stupid.

So you didn't actually read the Draigo story is all you're admitting. Good to know.

You're right. Cthululs Spy should really read the exhaustive text of "the Draigo story" in the codex that begins with "alone and unaided" (paraphrased if not outright quoted) and ends with a carving of Draigo's old boss's name in Mortarion's heart with no indication that Mortarion or his body guard had in any way been previously wounded, exhausted or in any other way put at a disadvantage. Implying that Draigo needs a Daemon Primarch to be weakened before he goes a-carvin' is not supported by the actual lore.

I don't read 1d4chan and don't know what inaccuracies you are referring to, but I can't think of any embellishments they could add that would top the original Mat Ward masterpiece that made it into the codex.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:


I'm guessing you didn't actually read the story and are relying on good ol' 1d4chan inaccuracies.

Except I did though? I'm pretty sure Marneus Calgar did beat an Avatar of Khaine in single combat, and Draigo wrote on Mortarion's heart. Sure, the Demon Primarch was wounded from fighting a bunch of other Grey Knights, but that doesn't make the heart tattoo any less stupid.

So you didn't actually read the Draigo story is all you're admitting. Good to know.

I'd hardly call that a "story".

They loosely retcon the event in "Mortarion's Heart." Draigo used Mortarion's true name to weaken him, so it's not like Draigo one v oned a daemon primarch unaided. But still

 Galef wrote:
"moving away from" might not be the best way to put it, but considering plastic Banshees & Incubi are being released with no indication of new CWE or DE codices coming, we can say that Codex centered releases are no longer the primary way GW wants to release new minis. It's a mix of Codex and Campaign releases
-

Codex, campaign, and flatout just product releases.

The Dunerider wasn't in either Vigilus book. Nor was the Manipulus or the Repulsor Executioner. Those releases were all just rules included with the models.

 Jidmah wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:


I'm guessing you didn't actually read the story and are relying on good ol' 1d4chan inaccuracies.

Except I did though? I'm pretty sure Marneus Calgar did beat an Avatar of Khaine in single combat, and Draigo wrote on Mortarion's heart. Sure, the Demon Primarch was wounded from fighting a bunch of other Grey Knights, but that doesn't make the heart tattoo any less stupid.

So you didn't actually read the Draigo story is all you're admitting. Good to know.

I'd hardly call that a "story".

Wow. I know this gets mentioned a lot, but I had not seen the actual text of it. Even with all the hype, that is way stupider than I could have imagined.

Yea that GK codex is full of gems. They even anointed their armor is sisters blood if I recall. I threw my copy out earlier this summer when I was cleaning the hobby room

 Jidmah wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:


I'm guessing you didn't actually read the story and are relying on good ol' 1d4chan inaccuracies.

Except I did though? I'm pretty sure Marneus Calgar did beat an Avatar of Khaine in single combat, and Draigo wrote on Mortarion's heart. Sure, the Demon Primarch was wounded from fighting a bunch of other Grey Knights, but that doesn't make the heart tattoo any less stupid.

So you didn't actually read the Draigo story is all you're admitting. Good to know.

I'd hardly call that a "story".

Yeah, I don't see how I'm wrong, because that's sort of what I remember reading.
Its actually worse than what I remember, because it says that Draigo did it by himself.
Maybe its something my memory made up, because the original is so stupid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

GaroRobe wrote:
They loosely retcon the event in "Mortarion's Heart." Draigo used Mortarion's true name to weaken him, so it's not like Draigo one v oned a daemon primarch unaided. But still

Ah, maybe I'm thinking of that.
I really hate retcons. They get confusing real fast.

Whatever way you cut it the Draigo story reads like bad fan fiction.

The only way i can even justify some of the more recent lore is to believe it practically is bad fan fiction written by some serf who lives in his Inquisitorial mums basement based on vague readings he came across on a dataslate before being pushed as gospel among his 'peers'.

So far as im concerned The Avatar is still a force to be reckoned with like in 2nd edition when it was literally the toughest thing in the game (M6, WS10, BS10, S8, T8, I10, W7, A5, LD10, 2+/4+ save, immune to plasma/melta/flamer, attacks ignore Daemonic Saves) and any story that tries to tell me otherwise is trash.

Anyway, looking forward to Drazhar next week, just hope it's not the last of the Craftworld releases but if anything else comes along i will be very much surprised.

Holy gak. Can you stop posting off topic drivel please ladies and gents? I've just reported like 5 posts and then got bored of the rest. If you want to talk about Draigo's hot action with Mortarion fanfiction or whatever go and do it in another thread please! Only last page did a Mod warn against exactly this! /rant

With that done, I have scoured the internets to bring more information from our friendly, neighbourhood/French rumourmonger.

Here's the lowdown on his take on Psychic Awakening - very positive, in my opinion (emphasis mine);

Awesome French Dude wrote:I read somewhere that there would be powers for the exarch aspect in PA Volume 1. 5 or 6 available by exarch (Example: to say to avenge there is one who passes them in CC / CT 2+) . This replaces the one in the profile. With a 1pc stratum it adds up. I also read that there will be rules for Drukharis but also for Ynnaris

Awesome French Dude wrote:The PA supplements apart from the fluff they will bring new additional rules to the original Codex. The Craftworlds for example are going to have their own world-class ship to do as in the SM supplements . So we can expect specific rules of world ships, warlord traits, powers and dedicated strats. Anyway we should have concrete very quickly it is expected early October. Then there will be the new AoS faction and end of October the IF / Sally.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Holy gak. Can you stop posting off topic drivel please ladies and gents? I've just reported like 5 posts and then got bored of the rest. If you want to talk about Draigo's hot action with Mortarion fanfiction or whatever go and do it in another thread please! Only last page did a Mod warn against exactly this! /rant

With that done, I have scoured the internets to bring more information from our friendly, neighbourhood/French rumourmonger.

Here's the lowdown on his take on Psychic Awakening - very positive, in my opinion (emphasis mine);

Awesome French Dude wrote:I read somewhere that there would be powers for the exarch aspect in PA Volume 1. 5 or 6 available by exarch (Example: to say to avenge there is one who passes them in CC / CT 2+) . This replaces the one in the profile. With a 1pc stratum it adds up. I also read that there will be rules for Drukharis but also for Ynnaris

By read somewhere he clearly means WarCom as GW already told us this when the Banshee Exarch was shown off.

Awesome French Dude wrote:The PA supplements apart from the fluff they will bring new additional rules to the original Codex. The Craftworlds for example are going to have their own world-class ship to do as in the SM supplements . So we can expect specific rules of world ships, warlord traits, powers and dedicated strats. Anyway we should have concrete very quickly it is expected early October. Then there will be the new AoS faction and end of October the IF / Sally.

I was hoping for something like this, lets see if it comes true.

 Imateria wrote:

Awesome French Dude wrote:The PA supplements apart from the fluff they will bring new additional rules to the original Codex. The Craftworlds for example are going to have their own world-class ship to do as in the SM supplements . So we can expect specific rules of world ships, warlord traits, powers and dedicated strats. Anyway we should have concrete very quickly it is expected early October. Then there will be the new AoS faction and end of October the IF / Sally.

I was hoping for something like this, lets see if it comes true.

Nice if it happens but I'll wait and see.

By comparison to the Space Marines or Chaos Space Marines and their subfactions, very little is known about each individual Craftworld. Even their stereotypes only date from the 3rd edition Craftworld Codex (some from 2nd edition Epic), and they haven't really been developed more beyond that.

I could see GW doing subfaction rules. however it might just be for a SINGLE subfaction. consider black legion in vigilius ablaze.

BrianDavion wrote:
I could see GW doing subfaction rules. however it might just be for a SINGLE subfaction. consider black legion in vigilius ablaze.

Brazen Beasts, The Purge, Red Corsairs, Flawsless Host and Scourged as well as Black Legion. Sure BL got the most but there was plenty of other subfaction rules as well. Either way it would be something more then the usual. I would agree that it will be less then the marines are getting, but I doubt if anyone else gets that kind of treatment and honestly I am fine with that, if all 20+ factions got 6 supplements... Well, you can see where I am going

Iracundus wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

Awesome French Dude wrote:The PA supplements apart from the fluff they will bring new additional rules to the original Codex. The Craftworlds for example are going to have their own world-class ship to do as in the SM supplements . So we can expect specific rules of world ships, warlord traits, powers and dedicated strats. Anyway we should have concrete very quickly it is expected early October. Then there will be the new AoS faction and end of October the IF / Sally.

I was hoping for something like this, lets see if it comes true.

Nice if it happens but I'll wait and see.

By comparison to the Space Marines or Chaos Space Marines and their subfactions, very little is known about each individual Craftworld. Even their stereotypes only date from the 3rd edition Craftworld Codex (some from 2nd edition Epic), and they haven't really been developed more beyond that.

In 6E/7E GW did a Iyanden craftworld supplement. I didn't purchase it, so I don't know how in-depth it went into the craftworld itself.

@Stormonu it was mostly lore a single column of special rules like can make Wraith Lords and knights characters and be warlords, and several relics and 1 psy power for spiritseers

 Imateria wrote:

Awesome French Dude wrote:I read somewhere that there would be powers for the exarch aspect in PA Volume 1. 5 or 6 available by exarch (Example: to say to avenge there is one who passes them in CC / CT 2+) . This replaces the one in the profile. With a 1pc stratum it adds up. I also read that there will be rules for Drukharis but also for Ynnaris

By read somewhere he clearly means WarCom as GW already told us this when the Banshee Exarch was shown off.

I believe that GW have only previewed 1 exarch power for the Banshee exarch and that's it? Forgive the google translate above but I believe our Frenchman is telling us that each aspect will get exarch powers and he gives an example of an Avengers power (that I don't really understand to be honest - we need a resident French speaker to help with the nuance I think).

Did someone ask for a French ?