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 Jidmah wrote:
- deleted -

Screw this, let's not derail the thread.

Still I wonder how some people feel it's ok to leave out TS and DG whenever chaos marines get an update, while it's absolutely normal that Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves automatically get everything loyalist marines get. Up to the point where getting 10+ primaris releases count as "nothing" for Blood Angels.

What i don't understand is why some players with faction that is one of the better served in 8th ed complain not enough even to level they deliberately lie about it.

Ah well. Sense of entitlement is strong.

 Jidmah wrote:
Still I wonder how some people feel it's ok to leave out TS and DG whenever chaos marines get an update, while it's absolutely normal that Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves automatically get everything loyalist marines get. Up to the point where getting 10+ primaris releases count as "nothing" for Blood Angels.

Try playing the (conveniently forgotten) Deathwatch. Zero access to any of the new stuff, even though unlike all the special snowflakes, recon marines actually fit DW fluff perfectly. Even though GW somehow managed this 'impossible' feat with get you by rules for the first wave of primaris. DW also have all of 1 unit of their own plus 2 characters, unlike 50 DG get, no twin army with the same keywords so you can share buffs and spells freely, no access to some of the best chaff and HQ units in the game, no nothing. But it's ok, it's not like DW in fluff is supposed to have access to everything Imperium and Inquisition have, on top of some stuff even they can't use... Oh wait

Klickor wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
- deleted -

Screw this, let's not derail the thread.

Still I wonder how some people feel it's ok to leave out TS and DG whenever chaos marines get an update, while it's absolutely normal that Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves automatically get everything loyalist marines get. Up to the point where getting 10+ primaris releases count as "nothing" for Blood Angels.

As long as we dont have new rules for the Primaris it doesnt do too much for us BA players. We have 0 synergi with strats and chapter tactics for them so if you include them you should probably just play as a custom marine chapter painted red. Except the warsuit they dont really help us but the warsuit doesnt even get our chapter tactic since it isnt a dread. Smh

I do have some 30 intercessors, 3 war suits and a few primaris characters waiting for new BA rules to play them with and until then its RG successor for me.

keep in mind, new marine releases being for DA, BA etc. is also a new thing, back in 7th when cataphracti armor etc was given rules, it was, oddly, vanilla marines only. it wasn't until 8th edition the BA/DA etc could take them

 Irbis wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Still I wonder how some people feel it's ok to leave out TS and DG whenever chaos marines get an update, while it's absolutely normal that Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves automatically get everything loyalist marines get. Up to the point where getting 10+ primaris releases count as "nothing" for Blood Angels.

Try playing the (conveniently forgotten) Deathwatch. Zero access to any of the new stuff, even though unlike all the special snowflakes, recon marines actually fit DW fluff perfectly. Even though GW somehow managed this 'impossible' feat with get you by rules for the first wave of primaris. DW also have all of 1 unit of their own plus 2 characters, unlike 50 DG get, no twin army with the same keywords so you can share buffs and spells freely, no access to some of the best chaff and HQ units in the game, no nothing. But it's ok, it's not like DW in fluff is supposed to have access to everything Imperium and Inquisition have, on top of some stuff even they can't use... Oh wait

I have great news to you: You are actually allowed to field anything with an IMPERIUM keyword in the same army as you Deathwatch, exactly like in the fluff. Including the best chaff unit in the game and the best lords of war in the game. But yeah, "nothing".

I suggest
1) Learning to count. There aren't even 50 distinct death guard models.
2) Learning to read. Chaos Daemons by no means freely share buffs with death guard, and the only Death Guard rule that can affect any nurgle daemons at all is the Daemon Prince aura.

You can do it!

Edit: More great news for you: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/warhammer_40000_repulsor_executioner_update_en.pdf

It all looks really good- the chaos sorcerer looks amazing, the Sisters tanks are really cool and I'm loving the Mephiston hints- if he is modelled after that original artwork by Gibbons he will be amazing. They really are knocking it out of the part with these models they just need to spread the love across the factions a bit more. The clam packs they are coming out with really show how they are moving forward with single figure plastics and they are looking great. [Please give me a new Nid clam pack in the near-ish future...]

The Guard players that should feel bad are the Imperial ones. With Marines hugging the spotlight they will be lucky to come out with custom doctrine rules.... which PR showed that may not be that great. Sisters don't care because they are getting their codex.
Death guard will probably be in the same book with Tau: last time we hard of them they were trying to cross the wormhole Tau accidentaly created.

BrianDavion wrote:

Klickor wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
- deleted -

Screw this, let's not derail the thread.

Still I wonder how some people feel it's ok to leave out TS and DG whenever chaos marines get an update, while it's absolutely normal that Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves automatically get everything loyalist marines get. Up to the point where getting 10+ primaris releases count as "nothing" for Blood Angels.

As long as we dont have new rules for the Primaris it doesnt do too much for us BA players. We have 0 synergi with strats and chapter tactics for them so if you include them you should probably just play as a custom marine chapter painted red. Except the warsuit they dont really help us but the warsuit doesnt even get our chapter tactic since it isnt a dread. Smh

I do have some 30 intercessors, 3 war suits and a few primaris characters waiting for new BA rules to play them with and until then its RG successor for me.

keep in mind, new marine releases being for DA, BA etc. is also a new thing, back in 7th when cataphracti armor etc was given rules, it was, oddly, vanilla marines only. it wasn't until 8th edition the BA/DA etc could take them

Chaos still don't have rules for cataphractii or tartoros terminators. They just count as normal terminators for us. And if anyone should have the most ancient marks of armor shouldn't it be the most ancient marines?

Hoping the whole "supplement level rules " claim isn't just hyperbole for legions. Probably is if rumors are true.

I'm really keen to see how the next PA supplement plays out - it will indicate how every other faction will fare too. The Eldar supplement has some good stuff in it but is pretty bland overall, which may be because Eldar are already pretty damn competitive. Fingers crossed CSM get a more significant bump, and of course the other lagging factions afterwards.

'Just' a page of strats, and one of relics, powers and traits can turn a faction on its head.

 grouchoben wrote:
I'm really keen to see how the next PA supplement plays out - it will indicate how every other faction will fare too. The Eldar supplement has some good stuff in it but is pretty bland overall, which may be because Eldar are already pretty damn competitive. Fingers crossed CSM get a more significant bump, and of course the other lagging factions afterwards.

'Just' a page of strats, and one of relics, powers and traits can turn a faction on its head.

Not really.
So long the traits are not fixed for CSM i doubt that this would be enough for most.
Infact, EVEN IF, the stratagems and Relics are good to great, that is allready dead due to herohammer, run into targeted smites and or sniper heavy lists and that 's it. done.

My expectations aren't so lofty. It may well give some of our sub-factions a jab in the arm but it's not going to fix any of the fundamental problems with our book or "turn our faction on its head" if they're not addressing traits. If I get some cool toys to play around with my Word Bearers (and a mirror stratagem for curbstomping smurfs in melee) I'll be happy.

The Emperor's Children and Word Bearer traits are both just so bad I'd hope they both get buffed like how Ynari trait is the EC+ more, or just outright changed to something less situational.

 Redemption wrote:
Yeah, the Lord of Death moniker is used for Mephiston, he even has a special rule of that name currently.

The model appears to be based on his old 2nd edition art by Mark Gibbons. Someone on the WHC Facebook made this from stills of the teaser:

Spoiler:

Dammit. That's one of my favorite classic pieces of 40k art. I didn't catch the similar parts and if they really are making him in that pose as long as it's not gravis armor then I'll have to get it.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Klickor wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
- deleted -

Screw this, let's not derail the thread.

Still I wonder how some people feel it's ok to leave out TS and DG whenever chaos marines get an update, while it's absolutely normal that Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves automatically get everything loyalist marines get. Up to the point where getting 10+ primaris releases count as "nothing" for Blood Angels.

As long as we dont have new rules for the Primaris it doesnt do too much for us BA players. We have 0 synergi with strats and chapter tactics for them so if you include them you should probably just play as a custom marine chapter painted red. Except the warsuit they dont really help us but the warsuit doesnt even get our chapter tactic since it isnt a dread. Smh

I do have some 30 intercessors, 3 war suits and a few primaris characters waiting for new BA rules to play them with and until then its RG successor for me.

keep in mind, new marine releases being for DA, BA etc. is also a new thing, back in 7th when cataphracti armor etc was given rules, it was, oddly, vanilla marines only. it wasn't until 8th edition the BA/DA etc could take them

Chaos still don't have rules for cataphractii or tartoros terminators. They just count as normal terminators for us. And if anyone should have the most ancient marks of armor shouldn't it be the most ancient marines?

Hoping the whole "supplement level rules " claim isn't just hyperbole for legions. Probably is if rumors are true.

Chaos aren't going to get Heresy marks of Armour - outside of Deathguard, because they're not chaos models. Fluffwise you could probably argue that the older and more complicated marks that are still around today are the ones that have been treated as relics for the most part and have been well maintained and locked away, rather than used constantly by ad hoc warbands in the Eye of Terror.

Supplement level rules will almost certainly be like the Black Legion ones in Vigilius Ablaze. Relics, warlord traits, strats and tactical objectives. Maybe some new spells given there's a new sorcerer - so think it'd a surprise if that turned out to just be hyperbole.
Doctrines aren't a supplement rule, but a modified version of a codex rule that chaos doesn't get anyway

Tastyfish wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Klickor wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
- deleted -

Screw this, let's not derail the thread.

Still I wonder how some people feel it's ok to leave out TS and DG whenever chaos marines get an update, while it's absolutely normal that Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves automatically get everything loyalist marines get. Up to the point where getting 10+ primaris releases count as "nothing" for Blood Angels.

As long as we dont have new rules for the Primaris it doesnt do too much for us BA players. We have 0 synergi with strats and chapter tactics for them so if you include them you should probably just play as a custom marine chapter painted red. Except the warsuit they dont really help us but the warsuit doesnt even get our chapter tactic since it isnt a dread. Smh

I do have some 30 intercessors, 3 war suits and a few primaris characters waiting for new BA rules to play them with and until then its RG successor for me.

keep in mind, new marine releases being for DA, BA etc. is also a new thing, back in 7th when cataphracti armor etc was given rules, it was, oddly, vanilla marines only. it wasn't until 8th edition the BA/DA etc could take them

Chaos still don't have rules for cataphractii or tartoros terminators. They just count as normal terminators for us. And if anyone should have the most ancient marks of armor shouldn't it be the most ancient marines?

Hoping the whole "supplement level rules " claim isn't just hyperbole for legions. Probably is if rumors are true.

Chaos aren't going to get Heresy marks of Armour - outside of Deathguard, because they're not chaos models. Fluffwise you could probably argue that the older and more complicated marks that are still around today are the ones that have been treated as relics for the most part and have been well maintained and locked away, rather than used constantly by ad hoc warbands in the Eye of Terror.

Supplement level rules will almost certainly be like the Black Legion ones in Vigilius Ablaze. Relics, warlord traits, strats and tactical objectives. Maybe some new spells given there's a new sorcerer - so think it'd a surprise if that turned out to just be hyperbole.
Doctrines aren't a supplement rule, but a modified version of a codex rule that chaos doesn't get anyway

If they don't fix legion traits then it isn't "codex supplement tier support".

As far as your explanation on the older marks of terminator armour how would you explain chaos having their own versions of contemptors, sicarans, fellblades, etc.? Chaos can maintain things as well. They're not all frothing maniacs as many loyalists claim.

Legions would need brand new traits, if we are expected to have them apply to vehicles. Second to that, I would hope we get cheaper vehicles in CA to make up for the difference.

I doubt the chaos legions get super doctrines like loyalists. They will most likely save that for chaos codex 3.0.
However if they chose to do so it wouldn’t take much to say “if your army is completely alpha legion, then gain bla bla.

That being said even if they don’t give out super doctrines then 2 pages of good strats, good relics and good psychic powers/prayers (as they should do for word bearers and world eaters) could go a long way to making the legions fun to play with again.

demontalons wrote:
I doubt the chaos legions get super doctrines like loyalists. They will most likely save that for chaos codex 3.0.
However if they chose to do so it wouldn’t take much to say “if your army is completely alpha legion, then gain bla bla.

That being said even if they don’t give out super doctrines then 2 pages of good strats, good relics and good psychic powers/prayers (as they should do for word bearers and world eaters) could go a long way to making the legions fun to play with again.

First chaos marine armies perform RAGE BLASTER doctrine, -1ap to heavy
Then they enter BOLT DESTRUCTINATOR doctrine, -1ap to bolted
Finally it's time for MAIM ANNIHILATION STRIKE doctrine, -1ap to melee.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

If they don't fix legion traits then it isn't "codex supplement tier support".

As far as your explanation on the older marks of terminator armour how would you explain chaos having their own versions of contemptors, sicarans, fellblades, etc.? Chaos can maintain things as well. They're not all frothing maniacs as many loyalists claim.

The chapter traits in the supplements are the same as the traits in the codex, there's no update there. Just unique strats, relics and warlord traits. Prayers for Word Bearers would be nice, though guess they can get the full range of marked ones already.
If there wasn't an update in the Chaos marine codex, there's probably not going to be an update here.

As for the relic tanks, those are FW units so wouldn't appear in a codex anyway, and let me say an AdMech player I'm only too aware that some 30K models are staying in 30K.

the_scotsman wrote:

demontalons wrote:
I doubt the chaos legions get super doctrines like loyalists. They will most likely save that for chaos codex 3.0.
However if they chose to do so it wouldn’t take much to say “if your army is completely alpha legion, then gain bla bla.

That being said even if they don’t give out super doctrines then 2 pages of good strats, good relics and good psychic powers/prayers (as they should do for word bearers and world eaters) could go a long way to making the legions fun to play with again.

First chaos marine armies perform RAGE BLASTER doctrine, -1ap to heavy
Then they enter BOLT DESTRUCTINATOR doctrine, -1ap to bolted
Finally it's time for MAIM ANNIHILATION STRIKE doctrine, -1ap to melee.

Nah, we are Chaos, we want to roll on a random table to see which bonus we get each round, planning is something for the lapdogs. 3of our 6 options will be CC based, as that's what we like to do most. Yes, Iron Warriors, too.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

demontalons wrote:
I doubt the chaos legions get super doctrines like loyalists. They will most likely save that for chaos codex 3.0.
However if they chose to do so it wouldn’t take much to say “if your army is completely alpha legion, then gain bla bla.

That being said even if they don’t give out super doctrines then 2 pages of good strats, good relics and good psychic powers/prayers (as they should do for word bearers and world eaters) could go a long way to making the legions fun to play with again.

First chaos marine armies perform RAGE BLASTER doctrine, -1ap to heavy
Then they enter BOLT DESTRUCTINATOR doctrine, -1ap to bolted
Finally it's time for MAIM ANNIHILATION STRIKE doctrine, -1ap to melee.

Nah, we are Chaos, we want to roll on a random table to see which bonus we get each round, planning is something for the lapdogs. 3of our 6 options will be CC based, as that's what we like to do most. Yes, Iron Warriors, too.

I mean 'Be Careful What Your Wish For' is very much on brand for Chaos - there's always the old Daemon warpstorm table that could fill the doctrine gap...

As a Black Templars player, I just wanna give a quick shoutout to the Blood Angels, who despite having a colossal range, not only in 30k, but 40k, too, for getting the only SM release of PA 2, when we haven't had new models in years, and have actually lost minis in the FW stock, get ta feth ya wee sparkly twilight bastards





(only kidding, ur my faves of the 1st founding chapters, don't tell Dorn. Actually, my wallet is pretty glad I won't have to buy any new stuff, then convert it down to classic marine scale)

BrianDavion wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
"Great, Death Guard get nothing again."
"Oh, something about Mortarion?"
"Nope, it was the other Lord of Death."

Hard times for those who decided to pick the wrong side of DI to start the game.

I think of all the Chaos Legions, Death Guard have about the least room to complain about releases since 8th edition.

yeah death guard complaining about getting nothing is just silly. only space marines have gotten more then they have this edition most new codices are like 3 new kits, death guard where a dozen

You know, outside losing their Obliterators, Raptors, their main gimmick not working on basic core units, sure no reason to complain!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Klickor wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
- deleted -

Screw this, let's not derail the thread.

Still I wonder how some people feel it's ok to leave out TS and DG whenever chaos marines get an update, while it's absolutely normal that Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves automatically get everything loyalist marines get. Up to the point where getting 10+ primaris releases count as "nothing" for Blood Angels.

As long as we dont have new rules for the Primaris it doesnt do too much for us BA players. We have 0 synergi with strats and chapter tactics for them so if you include them you should probably just play as a custom marine chapter painted red. Except the warsuit they dont really help us but the warsuit doesnt even get our chapter tactic since it isnt a dread. Smh

I do have some 30 intercessors, 3 war suits and a few primaris characters waiting for new BA rules to play them with and until then its RG successor for me.

keep in mind, new marine releases being for DA, BA etc. is also a new thing, back in 7th when cataphracti armor etc was given rules, it was, oddly, vanilla marines only. it wasn't until 8th edition the BA/DA etc could take them

Chaos still don't have rules for cataphractii or tartoros terminators. They just count as normal terminators for us. And if anyone should have the most ancient marks of armor shouldn't it be the most ancient marines?

Hoping the whole "supplement level rules " claim isn't just hyperbole for legions. Probably is if rumors are true.

There shouldn't even be separate rules for those Terminators.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

demontalons wrote:
I doubt the chaos legions get super doctrines like loyalists. They will most likely save that for chaos codex 3.0.
However if they chose to do so it wouldn’t take much to say “if your army is completely alpha legion, then gain bla bla.

That being said even if they don’t give out super doctrines then 2 pages of good strats, good relics and good psychic powers/prayers (as they should do for word bearers and world eaters) could go a long way to making the legions fun to play with again.

First chaos marine armies perform RAGE BLASTER doctrine, -1ap to heavy
Then they enter BOLT DESTRUCTINATOR doctrine, -1ap to bolted
Finally it's time for MAIM ANNIHILATION STRIKE doctrine, -1ap to melee.

Nah, we are Chaos, we want to roll on a random table to see which bonus we get each round, planning is something for the lapdogs. 3of our 6 options will be CC based, as that's what we like to do most. Yes, Iron Warriors, too.

The table in question will have 66 options, and one of them will flat out wipe out the squad and replace them with spawn. Because chaos = randumb, Amirite?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

demontalons wrote:
I doubt the chaos legions get super doctrines like loyalists. They will most likely save that for chaos codex 3.0.
However if they chose to do so it wouldn’t take much to say “if your army is completely alpha legion, then gain bla bla.

That being said even if they don’t give out super doctrines then 2 pages of good strats, good relics and good psychic powers/prayers (as they should do for word bearers and world eaters) could go a long way to making the legions fun to play with again.

First chaos marine armies perform RAGE BLASTER doctrine, -1ap to heavy
Then they enter BOLT DESTRUCTINATOR doctrine, -1ap to bolted
Finally it's time for MAIM ANNIHILATION STRIKE doctrine, -1ap to melee.

Nah, we are Chaos, we want to roll on a random table to see which bonus we get each round, planning is something for the lapdogs. 3of our 6 options will be CC based, as that's what we like to do most. Yes, Iron Warriors, too.

The table in question will have 66 options, and one of them will flat out wipe out the squad and replace them with spawn. Because chaos = randumb, Amirite?

Hey if that's a whole unit that would be kinda cool to be fair.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

demontalons wrote:
I doubt the chaos legions get super doctrines like loyalists. They will most likely save that for chaos codex 3.0.
However if they chose to do so it wouldn’t take much to say “if your army is completely alpha legion, then gain bla bla.

That being said even if they don’t give out super doctrines then 2 pages of good strats, good relics and good psychic powers/prayers (as they should do for word bearers and world eaters) could go a long way to making the legions fun to play with again.

First chaos marine armies perform RAGE BLASTER doctrine, -1ap to heavy
Then they enter BOLT DESTRUCTINATOR doctrine, -1ap to bolted
Finally it's time for MAIM ANNIHILATION STRIKE doctrine, -1ap to melee.

Nah, we are Chaos, we want to roll on a random table to see which bonus we get each round, planning is something for the lapdogs. 3of our 6 options will be CC based, as that's what we like to do most. Yes, Iron Warriors, too.

The table in question will have 66 options, and one of them will flat out wipe out the squad and replace them with spawn. Because chaos = randumb, Amirite?

Hey if that's a whole unit that would be kinda cool to be fair.

Not if you need like 10 spawn miniatures, or the squad just dies. That's how it was in earlier editions, iirc.
If your character randomly decided to turn into a spawn, and you don't have a spawn on hand, then you get nothing except a dead character. The Boon table from 6th (?) ed was dumb.

I'm cool with chaos not having rules for them if the loyalists don't.

As far as legion traits go they should apply to vehicles like the loyalist's do. They need to replace the useless ones like wb as well as all the loyalists old chapter tactics were at least good.

I'm guessing what we'll actually get is a reprinting of a lot of stuff from traitor legions with 8th edition rules.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

demontalons wrote:
I doubt the chaos legions get super doctrines like loyalists. They will most likely save that for chaos codex 3.0.
However if they chose to do so it wouldn’t take much to say “if your army is completely alpha legion, then gain bla bla.

That being said even if they don’t give out super doctrines then 2 pages of good strats, good relics and good psychic powers/prayers (as they should do for word bearers and world eaters) could go a long way to making the legions fun to play with again.

First chaos marine armies perform RAGE BLASTER doctrine, -1ap to heavy
Then they enter BOLT DESTRUCTINATOR doctrine, -1ap to bolted
Finally it's time for MAIM ANNIHILATION STRIKE doctrine, -1ap to melee.

Nah, we are Chaos, we want to roll on a random table to see which bonus we get each round, planning is something for the lapdogs. 3of our 6 options will be CC based, as that's what we like to do most. Yes, Iron Warriors, too.

The table in question will have 66 options, and one of them will flat out wipe out the squad and replace them with spawn. Because chaos = randumb, Amirite?

Hey if that's a whole unit that would be kinda cool to be fair.

Not if you need like 10 spawn miniatures, or the squad just dies. That's how it was in earlier editions, iirc.
If your character randomly decided to turn into a spawn, and you don't have a spawn on hand, then you get nothing except a dead character. The Boon table from 6th (?) ed was dumb.

It was pretty easy to get stand-ins.

Not that I'm defending the Boon table.

 Jidmah wrote:
- deleted -

Screw this, let's not derail the thread.

Still I wonder how some people feel it's ok to leave out TS and DG whenever chaos marines get an update, while it's absolutely normal that Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves automatically get everything loyalist marines get. Up to the point where getting 10+ primaris releases count as "nothing" for Blood Angels.

Bro, Dark Angels do not have any of the chaplain rules, nor do they have the doctrines.

Those chapters you mentioned are red headed step children compared to vanilla Marines right now and still waiting on the cheese
They're also not comparable to the other goodies in the supplements for the vanilla marine chapters.

Wow its making me tear up how hard done the solo Marine players are - Chaos or Loyal are compared to every other faction.......

Oh no we only got how many new Primaris models? Chaos is at least getting yet more Marines. Anyone else getting stuff?

Seriously guys it looks like PA is mainly (yet again) about all the many many many flvaours Marines so maybe ease off on the hard done act and think about all the other entire Factions getting little if anything?

It's funny, we're actually in a real good time for 40k, so much content. I actually feel spoiled right now and cannot balance what I want to play and collect, and what I can realistically finish. Too many projects.
Keep the ball rolling.