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 Redemption wrote:
Leaks of the data sheets for Mephiston, Astorath and Lemartes:

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/kH83NSj


What was expected for the two chaplains, but very disappointed in the changes for Mephiston; he really only got the bare minimum of the Primaris upgrade.

One detail of note is that the Red Thirst and Black Rage rules are no longer listed, but instead the Angels of Death rule is. I'm guessing Black Rage will be dependent on the Death Company keyword now, and perhaps the BA chapter tactic had been reworked somewhat.

or GW's changed these to mono codex buffs?

BrianDavion wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
Leaks of the data sheets for Mephiston, Astorath and Lemartes:

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/kH83NSj


What was expected for the two chaplains, but very disappointed in the changes for Mephiston; he really only got the bare minimum of the Primaris upgrade.

One detail of note is that the Red Thirst and Black Rage rules are no longer listed, but instead the Angels of Death rule is. I'm guessing Black Rage will be dependent on the Death Company keyword now, and perhaps the BA chapter tactic had been reworked somewhat.

or GW's changed these to mono codex buffs?

Here;s hoping its not a day 1 FAQ issue where they just forgot it.

SeanDrake wrote:

I think the only races to get nothing at all so far is the Tau and the Nids and technically nids got a whole new subfaction and there first allies that were updated fairly recently.

Ah yes. Single character model is soooooo nice. Of course it wasn't even new character. Yey. And mediocre codex. What an amazing treat necrons have had!

tneva82 wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:

I think the only races to get nothing at all so far is the Tau and the Nids and technically nids got a whole new subfaction and there first allies that were updated fairly recently.

Ah yes. Single character model is soooooo nice. Of course it wasn't even new character. Yey. And mediocre codex. What an amazing treat necrons have had!

did he say "necrons should love what they got"? no he said "technicly they've gotten SOMETHING

Tau got a new character and a datasheet for Farsight's team, so they actually got more than necrons

thsats right tau got something in the alst chapter approved didn't they?

It looks like the marine players are just as quick to defend their glut of releases as xenos players are to lament them.

Either way, its off topic.

Primephiston shouldn't have the black rage any more should he? I thought no primaris had it and technically he dies to become primaris which should end the black rage, shouldn't it?

Mephiston cannot ride in a razorback or rhino with his death company brothers, because he is now PRIMARIS. Or his death company brothers cant ride with him in an impulsor, repulsor, etc. Well done GW

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It looks like the marine players are just as quick to defend their glut of releases as xenos players are to lament them.

Either way, its off topic.

Primephiston shouldn't have the black rage any more should he? I thought no primaris had it and technically he dies to become primaris which should end the black rage, shouldn't it?

Cawl claims he's solved those issues but there's a lot of evidance he wasn't as sucessful as he talked himself up. my guess is he's bought some time but those flaws are GOING to come back. Cawl didn't wanna tinker with stuff too much as some of those flaws are presumably tied to the emperor's plan.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It looks like the marine players are just as quick to defend their glut of releases as xenos players are to lament them.

Either way, its off topic.

Primephiston shouldn't have the black rage any more should he? I thought no primaris had it and technically he dies to become primaris which should end the black rage, shouldn't it?

Mephiston overcame black rage by becoming Mephiston. That's his basic old story. He was Librarian Calistrarius (for whom a miniature exists in Space Hulk), who was overcome by Black Rage fighting on Armageddon. Unlike most Blood Angels, he overcame the black rage and was "reborn" as Mephiston, Lord of Death. That's pretty much his fluff since 2nd Edition.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It looks like the marine players are just as quick to defend their glut of releases as xenos players are to lament them.

In all fairness, there's a reason that internet discussions about 40k are called Whingehammer.

People cry because their army didn't get a new thing. And when it does, it's not the new thing they wanted. Unless it is, then that new thing doesn't work as good as it should. And when it does, it sucks because everyone else is using it.

Also it's really easy to say that the army you don't like gets all the good stuff, or is at least perfectly fine.

Also everyone's Codex sucks and needs to be redone. Especially mine, yours is just fine. I don't play your army but it's fine.

Until you beat me, or get something new. Then you're OP and GW sucks at rules and balance.

Because we all hate GW, and maybe if we throw our money at them harder they'll change the way they do things.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Primephiston shouldn't have the black rage any more should he? I thought no primaris had it and technically he dies to become primaris which should end the black rage, shouldn't it?

Mephiston didn't have the Black Rage rule before his Primaris upgrade either. His background is that he was Calistarius, who fell to the Black Rage but overcame it and became Mephiston.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It looks like the marine players are just as quick to defend their glut of releases as xenos players are to lament them.

In all fairness, there's a reason that internet discussions about 40k are called Whingehammer.

People cry because their army didn't get a new thing. And when it does, it's not the new thing they wanted. Unless it is, then that new thing doesn't work as good as it should. And when it does, it sucks because everyone else is using it.

Also it's really easy to say that the army you don't like gets all the good stuff, or is at least perfectly fine.

Also everyone's Codex sucks and needs to be redone. Especially mine, yours is just fine. I don't play your army but it's fine.

Until you beat me, or get something new. Then you're OP and GW sucks at rules and balance.

Because we all hate GW, and maybe if we throw our money at them harder they'll change the way they do things.

So you're saying Warhammer 40K is perfectly balanced and always has been, meaning any and all criticism voiced by GW customers, past and present, is and always was without merit?

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It looks like the marine players are just as quick to defend their glut of releases as xenos players are to lament them.

In all fairness, there's a reason that internet discussions about 40k are called Whingehammer.

People cry because their army didn't get a new thing. And when it does, it's not the new thing they wanted. Unless it is, then that new thing doesn't work as good as it should. And when it does, it sucks because everyone else is using it.

Also it's really easy to say that the army you don't like gets all the good stuff, or is at least perfectly fine.

Also everyone's Codex sucks and needs to be redone. Especially mine, yours is just fine. I don't play your army but it's fine.

Until you beat me, or get something new. Then you're OP and GW sucks at rules and balance.

Because we all hate GW, and maybe if we throw our money at them harder they'll change the way they do things.

So you're saying Warhammer 40K is perfectly balanced and always has been, meaning any and all criticism voiced by GW customers, past and present, is and always was without merit?

except he's not wrong, people do tend to focus on balance flaws that aren't their army, and DO tend towards hyperbole.

BrianDavion wrote:


except he's not wrong, people do tend to focus on balance flaws that aren't their army, and DO tend towards hyperbole.

Is it? I find quite the opposite. People aren't nearly appreciative enough of valid concerns of underpowered armies that aren't their own and overtly dismissive of valid criticisms vs. overpowered armies if they happen to be the beneficiaries of rules-that-are-a-bit-too-good.

The game and the internet would do well to take 99% of all criticism voiced much, much, much more serious, especially if people have no reasoned or logical counterargument and instead resort to personal attacks of accusing people of "whining" or "whining" when they don't agree.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
So you're saying Warhammer 40K is perfectly balanced and always has been, meaning any and all criticism voiced by GW customers, past and present, is and always was without merit?

Don't look for five-star cuisine at a $4.99 buffet. The crab legs are going to be mediocre at best, but at least you can get chicken wings to go with them.

BrianDavion wrote:
except he's not wrong, people do tend to focus on balance flaws that aren't their army, and DO tend towards hyperbole.

I saw a grown adult man... let me be clear, a man at least in his mid 40's....

On the subject of Space Marines old vs. Primaris, and old Marines being phased out over time...

Let me say again, A GROWN ADULT MAN.

...I saw him speak of this subject like one of his dearest friends or family members was being pulled off life support, I watched this guy go on about these miniatures as if they were his family heirlooms and life savings... during the Invasion of Iraq, I watched Iraqi citizens who weren't sure if their house was still standing or what their future would be like- and they were less pitiful and whiny.

...not "Old Marines are going away", let me remind you. Old Marines won't be seeing any new models, all the new releases will be focused around Primaris, and you can still use your old Space Marines....

This man (or adult male) spoke of this as if it were the greatest atrocity of his lifetime, and honestly admitted to actually crying. He accused others of being heartless monsters.

I am not exaggerating. I am deliberately ensuring that none of this is hyperbolic. This is as honest of a representation I can give.

This was before his wailing turned to outright rage, and he worded his vitriol afterward as if he were some aspiring revolutionary demanding that the common people band together and rise up against the tyranny and injustice of Games Workshop and cast them down from their Ivory Towers by force.

Again, I'm using an analogy. Not an exagerration, not hyperbole.

This was a grown adult male, in his 40's.

Now, pause. Cringe. Feel the disgust, let it settle. I know you feel it.

Guess how many people agreed with his absolutely pathetic tirade?

I'll tell you.

A lot. More than a few. Major politicians, popular musicians, and massive events get fewer likes and shares.

Enough that if you were curious about 40k, and you went online and saw this- you'd go to the Warhammer tables at your FLGS just to hurl abuse and ridicule at Warhammer players, because it was absolutely mind-blowing and disgusting.

What's his username on Dakka?

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
So you're saying Warhammer 40K is perfectly balanced and always has been, meaning any and all criticism voiced by GW customers, past and present, is and always was without merit?

Don't look for five-star cuisine at a $4.99 buffet. The crab legs are going to be mediocre at best, but at least you can get chicken wings to go with them.

Doesn't matter what you look for. If the crab legs are bad, saying the crab legs are bad and/or could be better wouldn't be "whining" or "whinging". It'd just be stating a fact.

You cannot accuse people of whinging or whining if they simply comment on the obvious.

Yoyoyo wrote:
What's his username on Dakka?

This made me laugh.

Dakka has interesting characters, but I tend to not really regard them very often. The worst of them tend to escalate things, and when someone throws down a road flare I tend to slosh gasoline around and giggle, even when I catch my shoes on fire.

As I've said about complaints, there's two kinds.

A- Waaaaaaa! This bad, I don't like it, fix it and make it better!

B- Explain the problem, show some way that it is defective/deficient, offer some kind of possible solution, ensure there's some degree of comparison, and play devil's advocate or consider devil's advocate.

Remember the "Mechanic" analogy:

If you say, "My car is broke, fix it" and toss him the keys and huff- it's going to stay in that lot for a long time, and rack up a lot of lot fees. And when the Mechanic goes through and finally works on it, and checks everything... well, there's no assurances he can find the problem (or the right problem), and you're going to have an absurd bill and your car is still broken.

If you at least try to give some kind of guidance, some kind of suggestions, and you have some actual communication- then you'll be surprised. Who knows, you might have that mechanic that tells you how to fix a problem for less than $50.00 on your own in 20 minutes and doesn't charge you anything.

But, I will not lay all of the blame on the players. A lot lies on GW, because they've made plenty of dumb decisions and they've ignored the player feedback in the past without reason.

I'm one of those people that's still bitter and will sit around and wonder what "Inquisitor 2nd Edition" or "Shadow War: Vigilus" could have been like.

Make a new thread for a discussion around releases, balance and anything else for feths sake.

Removed

Also, on topic.

Shocked the Sanguinary Guard aren't getting Primaris'd. You'd think if they could make the Ultramarine Eagleface Guards, they could do the same for cherub-face stubbyleg models.

Not to mention people keep whining about crab legs in a thread that has nothing to do about crab legs...

 Redemption wrote:
Not to mention people keep whining about crab legs in a thread that has nothing to do about crab legs...

Pretend they're from a very small, salty Tyranid Hormagaunt.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:



Except they seem to be fine, since people keep eating them. And you're not saying what you dislike about them. Overcooked? Undercooked? Just not to your personal taste? Too small?

Feedback has to be useful to be considered, otherwise, you'll get "I'm sorry this wasn't up to your standards and we hope we can better suit your taste in the future".

Because, you may think it's obvious. But why you don't like the crab legs isn't, so yeah- that's just whining.

Does it really?

I never found there was a shortage of reasons of why people consider certain units/combos/armies overpowered or underpowered. There are literally hundreds of threads on Dakkadakka alone on how people would change this mechanic or that unit.

The paucity of reasons has in my experience never been on the side of people who want to improve the game, and is virtually always on the mentally lazy that dismiss other people's concerns as "whining" or "whining" or some other personal attack, instead of actually engaging in argument and reason.

 p5freak wrote:
Mephiston cannot ride in a razorback or rhino with his death company brothers, because he is now PRIMARIS. Or his death company brothers cant ride with him in an impulsor, repulsor, etc. Well done GW

If you aren't making your Mephiston fly with WINGS OF FIRE you are doing it wrong. Unless you are using that in a Dreadnought. Then alls good.

If the Dreads borrowed the Wings of Sanguinius, Mephiston can now also surf on an Impulsor and hop off after it moved.

BrianDavion wrote:
How many other armies have two seperate model lines for their base troops?

Death Guard have five different kits just for their plague marines alone, and that's just this edition stuff. They had two more earlier, then there is FW stuff for them which makes troop marines too, two plastic kits with resin upgrades. This has to be a record in different concurrent boxes for a single unit

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Old Marines won't be seeing any new models

Unless you count dozens of models from SMH line, 3 new event exclusives, and a pile of stuff from FW, then yeah, absolutely none

I have no idea who ignores reality harder, sQaTtEd crowd, or chaos players demanding 1847547923 update in a row...

 Irbis wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Old Marines won't be seeing any new models

Unless you count dozens of models from SMH line, 3 new event exclusives, and a pile of stuff from FW, then yeah, absolutely none

Besides the new Librarian terminator, what are the other two old marine exclusive models? I am dreading the day SMH releases primaris, but I hope they release some new scouts or veterans before they go all Primaris. Or some more chaos marines.

Back with Mephiston, how many character models are there that can instantly die from a bad roll like Mephiston? The Lord of Death killed by a faulty plasma pistol

GaroRobe wrote:

Back with Mephiston, how many character models are there that can instantly die from a bad roll like Mephiston? The Lord of Death killed by a faulty plasma pistol

Literally any that can take plasma weapons. Have a DA playing friend who flat out refuses to run a specific Azrael model because it's cursed and explodes in (and I am not exaggerating here) every game.

BrianDavion wrote:
thsats right tau got something in the alst chapter approved didn't they?

Kinda? They got rules for The Eight which isn't something new, they just weren't ported over to 8th for whatever reason until then. The new kroot guy from BSF is new, but a single 20pt character in a $150 box isn't exactly exciting regardless of how strong his booby traps are.

Either way, the treatment of Tyranids is going to set the expectations for Xenos factions in the rest of the books. If they get phoned in like the Eldar were then Xenos hype will be deader than it already is.