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Its also highly telling that many pure Marine players saying how everything is fine and no one else (ie other factions that they don;t play) should or even needs updates to match them are often exactly the same people

screaming that the non Codex Marines (the ones that pretend that they are so different depsite two of them being mostly Codex compliant ) absolutely must have all the new stuff to at least match the Codex Marines as well or they are trash and the world will end....

Nothing hypocritcal there at all.....no siree

Their colors are red, black, and white. They value honor and also have rituals that focus around blood, including the consumption of each other's blood. They have fast vehicles.

Who am I talking about? Blood Angels or Saim-hann?

topaxygouroun i wrote:

Top tier isn't op and no sane person would think SM shouldn't be top tier anyway. For the record I don't play, so thanks for clearing things up. It seems like a fairly transient problem that'll be cleared up in six months or so.

Astartes at the moment are not "top tier", they completely break the game. During October, in all the major tournaments around the world, they had more top-5 placings than all the other armies combined.. Astartes had 31 top-5 placings, whereas the second army (Tau I think) had 4 or 5.

Just to be awkward I'd point out that some of those tourneys were won by Tau none the less. Although yes it is agreed that marines bad, problem, fix it etc.

Dudeface wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

Top tier isn't op and no sane person would think SM shouldn't be top tier anyway. For the record I don't play, so thanks for clearing things up. It seems like a fairly transient problem that'll be cleared up in six months or so.

Astartes at the moment are not "top tier", they completely break the game. During October, in all the major tournaments around the world, they had more top-5 placings than all the other armies combined.. Astartes had 31 top-5 placings, whereas the second army (Tau I think) had 4 or 5.

Just to be awkward I'd point out that some of those tourneys were won by Tau none the less. Although yes it is agreed that marines bad, problem, fix it etc.

Looking at only the top placings is useless, because a very good player (and there's a handful of them) can win with almost any army in the game.
You should look at win rates across tournaments. On 40kstats you can find win rates by faction, and you can see that Tau are middle of the pack (50.84% win rate since September) while Space Marines have a 56.96% win rate. IH 67.38% among other chapters.

I mean when Tau are second most places and you have a difference of 26 placements between the first and second best performing army.
Then i feel like that is just nuts.

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Yea the space marine players continually making excuses for and defending their obviously OP rules that have much greater depth than other factions are losing all credibility. It's obvious that some players want 40k to become 30k. Its embarrassing.

no one is defending the marines. and the fact that you keep insisting on this makes me question your reading comprehension.

There's plenty of people defending marines and your defence (because you have, too, I've just looked through your posts) ranges from things as morose as "someone has to be top" to "I didn't see these complaints from Xenos players when [choose one = IK, Eldar, Ynarri, IG] were destroying the meta" and my personal favourite "just bide your time ya'll, no doubt everyone will get the '8.5' treatment soon and yet again marines will be trash tier, you'll see!" It's genuinely hilarious and looks like my reading comprehension is fine.

what people are saying is that if you expect to see a chapter tactics revision in PA you're going to be dissappointed.

Why should people not expect to see the same thing that the marines get in the very same book exactly? Why shouldn't people be disappointed when this doesn't happen? Don't try to mislead and focus on Chapter Tactics either - the difference in all rules that Marines enjoy compared to their Chaos/Xenos counterparts in these books has so far been night and day. I wonder why those non-Marine players get upset.

this isn't defending marines (I've been saying since the marine codex launched that Iron Hands is a problem even compared to the other marine chapters it's CLEARLY got issues that are glareingly obvious) this is telling people to be realistic about their expectations.

Iron Hands aren't the only problem, I've proven this multiple times and in threads actually related to the discussion around such (that you remain conspicuously absent from, by the way). ALL Codex Marine factions of EVERY flavour are massively over-performing.

Players' expectations are that they get equal treatment to marines, it shouldn't be unrealistic to expect this bare, simple standard of a multinational company of GW's size that are supposedly "listening to their customers".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Imateria wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Snip

You've been doing nothing but defend Marines and their absurd power boost for months now.

Thank you.

You can't argue with him, it won't work. All I need to see is the following:

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2019/11/40k-top-list-of-the-week-november-27th-iron-hand-successors-strike-again.html

https://imgur.com/a/ORfF40J


Marines, 11 weeks on top. Imperial right behind. Both for games won, and armies played. And 40k stats pretty much confirms it with a massive 57% mono faction win rate that Astartes are too good.

Can someone please translate?

Why do the Germans get all the neat (assuming) Facebook posts?

 xttz wrote:
Can someone please translate?

I've seen a translation elsewhere, the top one is the same that was shown on WarCom yesterday, the bottom is when an enemy Psyker fails a Psychic Test within 12" of a Synapse creater you can do D3 mortals to them for 2CP. It's so bad it makes Crucible of Maladiction look good, and it's not.

The first one is the same as the article.

The top one is literally just this:


The bottom one is something about using at the start of the Psychic Phase, and until the end of the Psychic Phase then something something wholly within 12 inches of <Hive Fleet> Synapse something something D3.

1CP would at least make it situational but okay. 2CP is fething silly.

It says D3 Deadly Wounds, (i'm thinking Mortal wounds here).

So it's basically the Kronos Soul Hunger trait with a shorter range, but works on all Synapse units until the end of the phase...

From what I can gather from the 2CP power on the german FB post.

-Use this doing the start of the enemy psychic phase.

At the end of the phase, if an enemy unit fails a psychic test within 12" of a "Swarmfleet"-Synapse-unit, deal 3 mortal wounds to that unit.-

I know it means blood but I couldn't help but read that as Baals Butt at first glance.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Yea the space marine players continually making excuses for and defending their obviously OP rules that have much greater depth than other factions are losing all credibility. It's obvious that some players want 40k to become 30k. Its embarrassing.

no one is defending the marines. and the fact that you keep insisting on this makes me question your reading comprehension.

There's plenty of people defending marines and your defence (because you have, too, I've just looked through your posts) ranges from things as morose as "someone has to be top" to "I didn't see these complaints from Xenos players when [choose one = IK, Eldar, Ynarri, IG] were destroying the meta" and my personal favourite "just bide your time ya'll, no doubt everyone will get the '8.5' treatment soon and yet again marines will be trash tier, you'll see!" It's genuinely hilarious and looks like my reading comprehension is fine.

what people are saying is that if you expect to see a chapter tactics revision in PA you're going to be dissappointed.

Why should people not expect to see the same thing that the marines get in the very same book exactly? Why shouldn't people be disappointed when this doesn't happen? Don't try to mislead and focus on Chapter Tactics either - the difference in all rules that Marines enjoy compared to their Chaos/Xenos counterparts in these books has so far been night and day. I wonder why those non-Marine players get upset.

this isn't defending marines (I've been saying since the marine codex launched that Iron Hands is a problem even compared to the other marine chapters it's CLEARLY got issues that are glareingly obvious) this is telling people to be realistic about their expectations.

Iron Hands aren't the only problem, I've proven this multiple times and in threads actually related to the discussion around such (that you remain conspicuously absent from, by the way). ALL Codex Marine factions of EVERY flavour are massively over-performing.

Players' expectations are that they get equal treatment to marines, it shouldn't be unrealistic to expect this bare, simple standard of a multinational company of GW's size that are supposedly "listening to their customers".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Imateria wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Snip

You've been doing nothing but defend Marines and their absurd power boost for months now.

Thank you.

telling someone to wait until future codex releases is defending now is it? umm no that's realistic, whining online isn't going to achomplish anything. patience though is really all we can do, future codices will come and as well as FAQs and errata.

 Redcruisair wrote:
From what I can gather from the 2CP power on the german FB post.

-Use this doing the start of the enemy psychic phase.

At the end of the phase, if an enemy unit fails a psychic test within 12" of a "Swarmfleet"-Synapse-unit, deal 3 mortal wounds to that unit.-

So the enemy could just avoid the Mortal Wounds by avoiding psychic tests by any psyker within range and those 2CP would have been used for nothing except maybe the denial of the enemy using psychic powers within 12" for that one phase.

Still neutralizes enemy psykers like the Shadow in the Warp should.

Well, Death Company Intercessors are Elites and pay 1 Pt for being Death Company (+1 Attack on the Charge and a 6+++). Unfortunate that they are Elites since the Blood Angels have so many choices there, but they are still going to be good. Doesn't look like there are any other Death Company units though. I am going to need to get a bunch of Death Company pauldrons though.

Iracundus wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:
From what I can gather from the 2CP power on the german FB post.

-Use this doing the start of the enemy psychic phase.

At the end of the phase, if an enemy unit fails a psychic test within 12" of a "Swarmfleet"-Synapse-unit, deal 3 mortal wounds to that unit.-

So the enemy could just avoid the Mortal Wounds by avoiding psychic tests by any psyker within range and those 2CP would have been used for nothing except maybe the denial of the enemy using psychic powers within 12" for that one phase.

Yep, CP2 for the chance to do nothing. Feel like buying some primaris marines now? - GW

telling someone to wait until future codex releases is defending now is it? umm no that's realistic, whining online isn't going to achomplish anything. patience though is really all we can do, future codices will come and as well as FAQs and errata.

Oh Don't worry your getting your other Marine Codex boosts - guess its FU to everyone else. and apparently you are more than happy with that - sad really.

Feel like answering any other of the points that were raised in his post as they were good ones.

 Redcruisair wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:
From what I can gather from the 2CP power on the german FB post.

-Use this doing the start of the enemy psychic phase.

At the end of the phase, if an enemy unit fails a psychic test within 12" of a "Swarmfleet"-Synapse-unit, deal 3 mortal wounds to that unit.-

So the enemy could just avoid the Mortal Wounds by avoiding psychic tests by any psyker within range and those 2CP would have been used for nothing except maybe the denial of the enemy using psychic powers within 12" for that one phase.

Yep, CP2 for the chance to do nothing. Feel like buying some primaris marines now? - GW

This kind of thinking always boggles my mind.

If the other player has heavy enough Psychic presence to have multiple Psykers to avoid psychic tests within range of (presumably) you choosing a Big Deal unit that happens to be near an enemy Psyker...then even if they skip one of their Psykers to avoid those MWs, they effectively shuttered something that they built for during their turn.

 Kanluwen wrote:
This kind of thinking always boggles my mind.

If the other player has heavy enough Psychic presence to have multiple Psykers to avoid psychic tests within range of (presumably) you choosing a Big Deal unit that happens to be near an enemy Psyker...then even if they skip one of their Psykers to avoid those MWs, they effectively shuttered something that they built for during their turn.

He means that the 2CP stratagem does nothing if the enemy manage to pass all his psychic tests. Which usually are relatively easy to pass.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

this isn't defending marines (I've been saying since the marine codex launched that Iron Hands is a problem even compared to the other marine chapters it's CLEARLY got issues that are glareingly obvious) this is telling people to be realistic about their expectations.

Iron Hands aren't the only problem, I've proven this multiple times and in threads actually related to the discussion around such (that you remain conspicuously absent from, by the way). ALL Codex Marine factions of EVERY flavour are massively over-performing.

Salamanders have a sub-50% win rate. Ultras aren't overperforming. This has been pointed out to you repeatedly.

As a side-note for the inevitable TiWP argument, you wouldn't happen to have the TiWP for Space Marines broken down per Chapter available anywhere? 40kstats seems to only do it by Codex, so it's got Iron Hands thrown in with Salamanders.

So something about the custom hive fleets, it looks like it might be the custom ones trade the one 'strong' trait of a main fleet for two 'weak' ones: the article specifically says X AND Y traits, not X or Y.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
So something about the custom hive fleets, it looks like it might be the custom ones trade the one 'strong' trait of a main fleet for two 'weak' ones: the article specifically says X AND Y traits, not X or Y.

X and Y is how all custom traits have been yeah. I think GW ius slowly beginning to standardize chapter tactics..... well except iron hands who get 3 traits "cause reasons"

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
So something about the custom hive fleets, it looks like it might be the custom ones trade the one 'strong' trait of a main fleet for two 'weak' ones: the article specifically says X AND Y traits, not X or Y.

I thought that was understood? You're making a new Fleet Trait. Meaning you pick two. It's the same system as Chapter Tactics.

Which is fine. It just looks boring for Tyranids narratively, and if any combo doesn't just plain beat out Kraken competitively, then it's not going to change that front either.

I was getting a bit confused because a number of people seemed to be comparing traits 1:1.