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 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

this isn't defending marines (I've been saying since the marine codex launched that Iron Hands is a problem even compared to the other marine chapters it's CLEARLY got issues that are glareingly obvious) this is telling people to be realistic about their expectations.

Iron Hands aren't the only problem, I've proven this multiple times and in threads actually related to the discussion around such (that you remain conspicuously absent from, by the way). ALL Codex Marine factions of EVERY flavour are massively over-performing.

Salamanders have a sub-50% win rate. Ultras aren't overperforming. This has been pointed out to you repeatedly.

As a side-note for the inevitable TiWP argument, you wouldn't happen to have the TiWP for Space Marines broken down per Chapter available anywhere? 40kstats seems to only do it by Codex, so it's got Iron Hands thrown in with Salamanders.

No one has taken Salamanders competitively in any great numbers because they were all waiting for the results of the FAQ on Self Sacrifice. If their win rate is sub 50%, its due to mirror matches, they lose to other marines primarily.

Ultras have a 53% win rate and an over performing TWiP/first loss. As do all marine types. All marines have an extremely high first loss number (2.3 and above).

If you want a breakdown of the stats in more detail with TWiP per supplement listen to the stats centre podcast I've shared multiple times now. They give the detail there.

It's kind of irritating that you ignore the thread I made to discuss this specifically and elect to start derailing this one. If you want detail and want a discussion around this, go to the 'Nu-Marines are/aren't broken megathread' which is exactly the place for this kind of discussion. I won't be responding here anymore on marines OP state and will simply link you to the actual thread to discuss the topic.

Got Faith and Fury in hand.

Barely a few pages in, and already it’s an improvement plot wise on Phoenix. Mainly because it’s new background, and not a rehash of the past few years.

Book in hand? How does it look for the nids - was the preview on the community page adequate for their new rules or is the best stuff still waiting in the book?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Got Faith and Fury in hand.

Barely a few pages in, and already it’s an improvement plot wise on Phoenix. Mainly because it’s new background, and not a rehash of the past few years.

Spoiler:

And it’s Kor Phaeron that organises the Chaos invasion

How is the overall plot? Does it just follow the old template of Chaos invasion of <insert new never before heard of planet> gets upper hand over Imperial non-Marines, until the Marines arrive to save the day and the CSM retreat shaking their fists like a Saturday morning cartoon villain?

Nids are Blood of Baal. Not faith and fury

 nintura wrote:
Nids are Blood of Baal. Not faith and fury

Right, sorry. Silly me :-)

I love that on P9. there are once again Traitorguard regiments mentioned.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Got Faith and Fury in hand.

Barely a few pages in, and already it’s an improvement plot wise on Phoenix. Mainly because it’s new background, and not a rehash of the past few years.

Spoiler:

And it’s Kor Phaeron that organises the Chaos invasion

Is it?

I actually loved the story of Phoenix Rising with Yvraine shadow-manouvering vs. Syll'eske, all the while building her own little magnificent seven with Jain Zar, Lelith, the Midnight Sorrow Solitaire, etc...

The bummer was you couldn't ever play the story even in the narrative missions because none of the people that turn Ynnari in the lore can be used in a Ynnari army .

Not Online!!! wrote:
I love that on P9. there are once again Traitorguard regiments mentioned.

wanna bet they get a codex release in 2020?

Red Thirst is +1 to wound and +1 Advance/Charge according to the stream.

Death Company Intercessors are Elite.

Iracundus wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Got Faith and Fury in hand.

Barely a few pages in, and already it’s an improvement plot wise on Phoenix. Mainly because it’s new background, and not a rehash of the past few years.

Spoiler:

And it’s Kor Phaeron that organises the Chaos invasion

How is the overall plot? Does it just follow the old template of Chaos invasion of <insert new never before heard of planet> gets upper hand over Imperial non-Marines, until the Marines arrive to save the day and the CSM retreat shaking their fists like a Saturday morning cartoon villain?

Haven’t read that far. Got a rotten cold, so have been napping since. But the Chaos tactics seem solid, even if there is some sort of Deus Ex going on and ‘next tiiiiiime’ vibes.

Wasn't the leader of the chaos forces already known? It's not a spoiler; him being part of the campaign was revealed by the Community site, I think. Still, it'll be fun to learn what he does and what he's been up to

Well, I’d missed it so thought best to spoiler

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well, I’d missed it so thought best to spoiler

Definitely better to play it safe

Any chance you'll post a spoiler review once you read the whole thing? I imagine we'll have some pop up tomorrow, but the sooner, the better

I'm a bit disappointed that they're throwing away the narrative opportunity and build up towards primaris still having their geneseed flaws so quickly after their introduction in this edition just to make a cheap cut and paste unit entry apparently.

 warboss wrote:
I'm a bit disappointed that they're throwing away the narrative opportunity and build up towards primaris still having their geneseed class so quickly after their introduction in this edition just to make a cheap cut and paste unit entry apparently.

the biggest complaint when primaris where introduced was that it made all marines "samey" so.. *shrugs*

So the Article today shows the Blood Angels preparing for a three pronged strike against the Red Scar. Because apparently Baal is completely free of Tyranid bioforms/bacteria/hidden nests, etc.

In an effort to expand and retake territory, they're going to assault the Nid fleets on devoured/currently being devoured, planets.

And they only need to take three planets to have a solid enough base of expansion.


I'm baffled again at how poorly they've written the Tyranids, and how they're ignoring how insidious they can be. Not to mention nothing was said of the Khorne incursion that assisted the Blood Angels. On top of that, it's another doomsday plot that's going to be stopped a millisecond from midnight, just like Devestation.

Maybe I read it wrong, but this just seems like poor writing and bad lore-keeping.

 Carnikang wrote:
So the Article today shows the Blood Angels preparing for a three pronged strike against the Red Scar. Because apparently Baal is completely free of Tyranid bioforms/bacteria/hidden nests, etc.

In an effort to expand and retake territory, they're going to assault the Nid fleets on devoured/currently being devoured, planets.

And they only need to take three planets to have a solid enough base of expansion.


I'm baffled again at how poorly they've written the Tyranids, and how they're ignoring how insidious they can be. Not to mention nothing was said of the Khorne incursion that assisted the Blood Angels. On top of that, it's another doomsday plot that's going to be stopped a millisecond from midnight, just like Devestation.

Maybe I read it wrong, but this just seems like poor writing and bad lore-keeping.

The lack of Tyranid taint I can give a pass too, you don't hear much referance to it on Macragge these days eaither. and GW's being vague about the passage of time, it's entirely likely the blood angels have had more then a century to scour their home. (it's also possiable they've only had 5 minutes. the book may clarify that for us although I doubt it.)

As for the 3 core worlds, I don't see an issue with it. the exact words are "make it easier for Imperial forces to spread out from Bhaal" presumably these worlds basicly have favorable warp tides allowing for faster travel. the warp is a funny thing and travel along the correct travel corridors is faster. the novel Dark Creed explains this really well

BrianDavion wrote:

 Carnikang wrote:
So the Article today shows the Blood Angels preparing for a three pronged strike against the Red Scar. Because apparently Baal is completely free of Tyranid bioforms/bacteria/hidden nests, etc.

In an effort to expand and retake territory, they're going to assault the Nid fleets on devoured/currently being devoured, planets.

And they only need to take three planets to have a solid enough base of expansion.


I'm baffled again at how poorly they've written the Tyranids, and how they're ignoring how insidious they can be. Not to mention nothing was said of the Khorne incursion that assisted the Blood Angels. On top of that, it's another doomsday plot that's going to be stopped a millisecond from midnight, just like Devestation.

Maybe I read it wrong, but this just seems like poor writing and bad lore-keeping.

The lack of Tyranid taint I can give a pass too, you don't hear much referance to it on Macragge these days eaither. and GW's being vague about the passage of time, it's entirely likely the blood angels have had more then a century to scour their home. (it's also possiable they've only had 5 minutes. the book may clarify that for us although I doubt it.)

As for the 3 core worlds, I don't see an issue with it. the exact words are "make it easier for Imperial forces to spread out from Bhaal" presumably these worlds basicly have favorable warp tides allowing for faster travel. the warp is a funny thing and travel along the correct travel corridors is faster. the novel Dark Creed explains this really well

As far as I know, Maccrage still has the taint.

But for the 3 world's, assaulting Hive Fleeta mid devour really isn't the best idea, and even then, better to do it all in space, and not assault the surface.
Depending on the timeframe as well, these world's might just be barren rock with not a Tyranid bioship in sight. It only take a month or two for consumption of we go by the timelines we've seen. Or, they could be teeming balls of claws in the end process, meaning they'll likely already be absorbing the planet and have more biomass to fight in space.

There nothing wrong with them getting a foothold, but 3 worlds seems either too many, or not enough. Depending on the size of the Red Scar. That's just an opinion of mine though.

Honestly is is a pretty standard article. It is not offensive, but somewhat boring.

Although I do enjoy the fact that the Baal tendril didn't include the entirety of the Red Scar tendril, and even after its defeat the tendril continues devouring the region around Baal.

Surely mid devour is a pretty good time to attack, a lot of the hive fleets beasties will have stepped into the recycling pools so won't be there to fight back, and biogoop will be easy to purge with fire,

what you really don't want is the fleet to be able to suck up the goo and turn it into more ships & creatures

It is old fluff that Tyranids are more vulnerable while feeding, as ships descend to the planet and are not combat ready.

Probaply old but I like it:

The artwork is one of the good things about PA.

So Blood Angel's apparently got a second part to their Chapter Tactic, which is one of the successor traits in the main codex: +1" to advance and charge. I called it.

It now makes more sense that we have part of the Dark Angel and part of the Space Wolves ones. Which means we really have no argument against consolidation too.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So Blood Angel's apparently got a second part to their Chapter Tactic, which is one of the successor traits in the main codex: +1" to advance and charge. I called it.

It now makes more sense that we have part of the Dark Angel and part of the Space Wolves ones. Which means we really have no argument against consolidation too.

It also highlights how bogus it is that other factions have the same traits with no changes. The bias is obvious.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So Blood Angel's apparently got a second part to their Chapter Tactic, which is one of the successor traits in the main codex: +1" to advance and charge. I called it.

It now makes more sense that we have part of the Dark Angel and part of the Space Wolves ones. Which means we really have no argument against consolidation too.

It also highlights how bogus it is that other factions have the same traits with no changes. The bias is obvious.

I certainly don't disagree! We haven't seen the full picture for Tyranids but the stuff that Eldar and their BDSM cousins got was laughably bad and still doesn't fix core issues with those armies. The amount of melee based Kabal benefits is laughable as they're ranged part of the codex basically!

hi

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So Blood Angel's apparently got a second part to their Chapter Tactic, which is one of the successor traits in the main codex: +1" to advance and charge. I called it.

It now makes more sense that we have part of the Dark Angel and part of the Space Wolves ones. Which means we really have no argument against consolidation too.

It also highlights how bogus it is that other factions have the same traits with no changes. The bias is obvious.

Yeah I was pretty thrilled when I saw the "fearsome visage " chapter tactic.

Oh so c:sm can take my legion's crappy legion trait and ANOTHER one as well?

Gadzilla666 wrote:
hi

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So Blood Angel's apparently got a second part to their Chapter Tactic, which is one of the successor traits in the main codex: +1" to advance and charge. I called it.

It now makes more sense that we have part of the Dark Angel and part of the Space Wolves ones. Which means we really have no argument against consolidation too.

It also highlights how bogus it is that other factions have the same traits with no changes. The bias is obvious.

Yeah I was pretty thrilled when I saw the "fearsome visage " chapter tactic.

Oh so c:sm can take my legion's crappy legion trait and ANOTHER one as well?

BuT yOu CaN sTaCk WiTh RaPtOrS aNd MoRaLe Is MoRe ImPoRtAnT tHaN yOu BeLiEvE!!!

yeah I hope 2020 sees a number of new codices for non-marine armies. with the PA updates I don't think blood angels need a new codex, and assuming space woilves and dark angels get the same they're fine, but other armies need a new codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:
hi

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So Blood Angel's apparently got a second part to their Chapter Tactic, which is one of the successor traits in the main codex: +1" to advance and charge. I called it.

It now makes more sense that we have part of the Dark Angel and part of the Space Wolves ones. Which means we really have no argument against consolidation too.

It also highlights how bogus it is that other factions have the same traits with no changes. The bias is obvious.

Yeah I was pretty thrilled when I saw the "fearsome visage " chapter tactic.

Oh so c:sm can take my legion's crappy legion trait and ANOTHER one as well?

BuT yOu CaN sTaCk WiTh RaPtOrS aNd MoRaLe Is MoRe ImPoRtAnT tHaN yOu BeLiEvE!!!

I suppose Morale is important in some hypothetical meta where the majority of your opponents play that army that uses large blocks of units and is exceptionally vunerable to moral.... you know... that army.. what's it called? I'm sure it exists