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 Brometheus wrote:
yeah 198 is playing now. Nice! A glimmer of hope

but you know what they say about hope..

Hope led to the Rubric.

 Brometheus wrote:
Yes Episode 198- 1h 15m 30s is where they talk about Thousand Sons in particular having so much to play around with and lots of character.

Probbaly means a whole name generating page to themselves.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
Yes Episode 198- 1h 15m 30s is where they talk about Thousand Sons in particular having so much to play around with and lots of character.

Probbaly means a whole name generating page to themselves.

Good, more pages for dark angels!

Dudeface wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
Yes Episode 198- 1h 15m 30s is where they talk about Thousand Sons in particular having so much to play around with and lots of character.

Probbaly means a whole name generating page to themselves.

Good, more pages for dark angels!

Ignores the trolling.....

I think TS having their own codex does open up interesting options for their story.

It could have them reverse the rubric selectively, or only for fresh recruits maybe (not sure in the fluff if they can replenish their manpower?)

Then they could have regular marines as a troops choice to sell more of those fancy new kits.

They could ALSO have some new options: flesh changed marines! There could be different versions that excel at different roles. Could be very interesting!

I still don't get why the dark angels are in RotD, I'm not complaining because sooner is better than later (ok maybe I'll complain a little), but there seems to be nothing tieing the Dark Angels to the story. We'll probably get some forced Magnus is working with the fallen, or another moment of cypher leading the dark angels to exactly where they need to be to save the galaxy and then "mysteriously" disappearing.

Every piece of DA lore in this edition has set them up for a major battle with a great crusade sized legion of the fallen, and this seems like... not that. It also seems too throw away to feature the lion, so my hunch is this is a nothing burger for the DA, we'll get a primaris captain (the one mentioned in white dwarf), some version of tactical doctrines, and that's about it.

*edit* one more gripe, we could have gotten a primaris Balthasar (the Captain from dark vengeance), but no, they had to kill him off screen, and now we get his replacement whom we've never heard of. Lame...

Or just dark angels are closeby. Good enough reason for the real meat that is da supplement

Yeah, Galactically The Rock and Prospero are in fairly close proximity to each other, kind of makes sense for it to be the Dark Angels then that get involved (same could be said for Catachan and Ryza though).

Quasistellar wrote:
I think TS having their own codex does open up interesting options for their story.

It could have them reverse the rubric selectively, or only for fresh recruits maybe (not sure in the fluff if they can replenish their manpower?)

Then they could have regular marines as a troops choice to sell more of those fancy new kits.

They could ALSO have some new options: flesh changed marines! There could be different versions that excel at different roles. Could be very interesting!

rubrics dont "die", the sand in their armor just gets out and its possible to pick it all back up and put it back in the armor to "resurrect" a rubric.

 Grimgold wrote:
I still don't get why the dark angels are in RotD, I'm not complaining because sooner is better than later (ok maybe I'll complain a little), but there seems to be nothing tieing the Dark Angels to the story. We'll probably get some forced Magnus is working with the fallen, or another moment of cypher leading the dark angels to exactly where they need to be to save the galaxy and then "mysteriously" disappearing.

Every piece of DA lore in this edition has set them up for a major battle with a great crusade sized legion of the fallen, and this seems like... not that. It also seems too throw away to feature the lion, so my hunch is this is a nothing burger for the DA, we'll get a primaris captain (the one mentioned in white dwarf), some version of tactical doctrines, and that's about it.

*edit* one more gripe, we could have gotten a primaris Balthasar (the Captain from dark vengeance), but no, they had to kill him off screen, and now we get his replacement whom we've never heard of. Lame...

Because each book needs an antagonist/glorified NPC that's playable in order to push sales. Whilst BoB might as well have been Blood of Baal: A Blood Angels Supplement, it was advertised enough to get Tyranid players to pick up a copy as well.

Fallen aren't a truly playable army (yet), thus they needed to grab another antagonist who had a proper codex.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
Yes Episode 198- 1h 15m 30s is where they talk about Thousand Sons in particular having so much to play around with and lots of character.

Probbaly means a whole name generating page to themselves.

Sadly, I think that will be very close to the actual content for TS.

A lot of great ideas in this thread from the lore perspective, but again, I doubt that GW will deliver anything close to them... Instead, TS are presented more and more like idiotic cartoon villains.

I like a lot the idea that someone wrote before, that of Magnus trying to "trick" Tzeentch. Would be a very nice plot to develop, after Tzeentch deceived Magnus before the Heresy. Supposedly (at least in background from some years ago), Magnus was second only to the Emperor regarding his intellect and mental abilities. However in the stories about him, both in Heresy stuff and especially in the latest 40k material, he is showed almost as a moron... One occasion... ok could be nice, but again and again is dissapointing to say the least...

If it's something like stratagems to make certain units be from certain cults, it would be really neat. Give them the cult's bonus from 30k and automatically give their sorc a power from that cult's powers (don't let it be a choice, they don't need that many extra power sets).

So something like a raptora rubric unit, so they end up with a 4++ and levitation or telekine dome. Or divination so they can re-roll 1s to hit if they stand still, and foreboding or perfect timing. Or maybe precognition or misfortune.

There's a lot of potential here if that's really what the podcast was referring to.

 Grimgold wrote:
I still don't get why the dark angels are in RotD

Presumably because, alongside the Grey Knights, they were the primary Imperial forces fighting against the Thousand Sons in Wrath of Magnus while the Space Wolves were getting mullered.

 Warpspy wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
Yes Episode 198- 1h 15m 30s is where they talk about Thousand Sons in particular having so much to play around with and lots of character.

Probbaly means a whole name generating page to themselves.

Sadly, I think that will be very close to the actual content for TS.
...

Doubtful. I'd expect in the absolute worse case they'll get half (in terms of page count) of what the main chaos marines book got from faith and fury, with the other half of that going to grey knights. So strats, traits, relics, etc.

If I'm right about the "stratagems to become certain cults" thing I hope tzaangors can be effected. They'd really benefit from pavoni's +1 to advance/charge, compared to any actual marine units.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:
I still don't get why the dark angels are in RotD

Presumably because, alongside the Grey Knights, they were the primary Imperial forces fighting against the Thousand Sons in Wrath of Magnus while the Space Wolves were getting mullered.

besides it;d be boring if GW never mixed things up and we only ever saw rivals fight. I mean... by that logic why was it the Salamanders fighting the word bearers in F&F and not the Ultramarines (hell in terms of rules presented it wouldn't have given us anything differant)

 Grimgold wrote:
I still don't get why the dark angels are in RotD, I'm not complaining because sooner is better than later (ok maybe I'll complain a little), but there seems to be nothing tieing the Dark Angels to the story. We'll probably get some forced Magnus is working with the fallen, or another moment of cypher leading the dark angels to exactly where they need to be to save the galaxy and then "mysteriously" disappearing.

Every piece of DA lore in this edition has set them up for a major battle with a great crusade sized legion of the fallen, and this seems like... not that. It also seems too throw away to feature the lion, so my hunch is this is a nothing burger for the DA, we'll get a primaris captain (the one mentioned in white dwarf), some version of tactical doctrines, and that's about it.

*edit* one more gripe, we could have gotten a primaris Balthasar (the Captain from dark vengeance), but no, they had to kill him off screen, and now we get his replacement whom we've never heard of. Lame...

Well there is limited story elements due to the need to cram an entire Marine supplement into the book.

Its the DA Supplement book with some other bits and pieces thrown in - best way to see the PA series. Wolves are PA4 I believe and will be similar.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:
I still don't get why the dark angels are in RotD, I'm not complaining because sooner is better than later (ok maybe I'll complain a little), but there seems to be nothing tieing the Dark Angels to the story. We'll probably get some forced Magnus is working with the fallen, or another moment of cypher leading the dark angels to exactly where they need to be to save the galaxy and then "mysteriously" disappearing.

Every piece of DA lore in this edition has set them up for a major battle with a great crusade sized legion of the fallen, and this seems like... not that. It also seems too throw away to feature the lion, so my hunch is this is a nothing burger for the DA, we'll get a primaris captain (the one mentioned in white dwarf), some version of tactical doctrines, and that's about it.

*edit* one more gripe, we could have gotten a primaris Balthasar (the Captain from dark vengeance), but no, they had to kill him off screen, and now we get his replacement whom we've never heard of. Lame...

Well there is limited story elements due to the need to cram an entire Marine supplement into the book.

Its the DA Supplement book with some other bits and pieces thrown in - best way to see the PA series. Wolves are PA4 I believe and will be similar.

Gosh. DA supplement AND SW supplement as PA4? That would be ridiculously crowded for one book. Nah PA6 will be wolf supplement.

What marine supplement PA5 will be? Tau vs...umm is there much left? Deathwatch is about last marine one left. Maybe custodians instead.

Everybody seems to be 100% sure this will be a DA supplement, I definitely get where they are coming from given the precedents, but was this confirmed anywhere?
If nothing is confirmed then this could just as well be a TS supplement while loyalists get what chaos got before
...perhaps just wishful thinking...

The video for each PA always included the symbols for the factions inside. The last one had GK, DA and TS afaik.

JSG wrote:

pm713 wrote:
That sounds incredibly stupid both from a writing and lore perspective.

This accusation gets levelled at every new release, before it's even available. Yet no one ever explains why.

From a writing point of view it's stupid because I already know that the plan for Tzeentch to enter reality is going to fail. There's no suspense or anything around it because it's a foregone conclusion. It's like a film trying to be suspenseful about a character being dead when the trailers have shown him alive later on.

From a lore point of view it's stupid because it's a rehashing of the same story of Magnus has a plan and gets undone by Tzeentch even though he should know better. The first time it was good, the second less so. It also seems a bit odd that huge amounts of a valuable resource are being nicked by Magnus.

Personally, I just feel Magnus should fade into the background after the disservice they did him in Siege of Fenris.

pm713 wrote:

JSG wrote:

pm713 wrote:
That sounds incredibly stupid both from a writing and lore perspective.

This accusation gets levelled at every new release, before it's even available. Yet no one ever explains why.

From a writing point of view it's stupid because I already know that the plan for Tzeentch to enter reality is going to fail. There's no suspense or anything around it because it's a foregone conclusion. It's like a film trying to be suspenseful about a character being dead when the trailers have shown him alive later on.

From a lore point of view it's stupid because it's a rehashing of the same story of Magnus has a plan and gets undone by Tzeentch even though he should know better. The first time it was good, the second less so. It also seems a bit odd that huge amounts of a valuable resource are being nicked by Magnus.

Personally, I just feel Magnus should fade into the background after the disservice they did him in Siege of Fenris.

you also knew Anakin Skywalker was going to become Darth Vader in the SW Prequals, did that stop you from seeing it? You know James Bond will escape that Goldberg deathtrap of doom, etc the entertaining thing is often not what happens but HOW it happens

edit: don't get me wrong I don't expect much from this book (40k story wise is at it's best when a battle is mentioned almost off hand in a codex and it's expanded upon by Black Library into a novel or 50) but there are plenty of examples of stories out there where knowing the general jist of whats happening is still sastifying.

 Jidmah wrote:
The video for each PA always included the symbols for the factions inside. The last one had GK, DA and TS afaik.

Not sure its certain they will all get stuff.

Sisters had their symbol on the Faith PA - but I am not aware they got anything (rules wise) in that?

and NO the boxed set does not count as it was a badly handled pre-release rather than a tie into PA.

I would think it will be a big DA supplement, some bits and pieces for TS - likely relic, strats and such like. Maybe pics for GK.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
The video for each PA always included the symbols for the factions inside. The last one had GK, DA and TS afaik.

Not sure its certain they will all get stuff.

Sisters had their symbol on the Faith PA - but I am not aware they got anything (rules wise) in that?

and NO the boxed set does not count as it was a badly handled pre-release rather than a tie into PA.

I would think it will be a big DA supplement, some bits and pieces for TS - likely relic, strats and such like. Maybe pics for GK.

except it did Tie into PA, they featured in the battle and it was released alongside F&F it was clearly INTENDED to be tie in marketing. sadly it didn't work very well. apparently one of the more intreasting stories involving the sisters was apparently in the CE only (basicly the you had the Alpha legion awakening the psykic potential of an entire planet, the IoM fighting them off, and the sisters deciding that these people where conduits for the emperor's will and thus should be protected. the Inqusition disagreed and the sisters accepted this as opposed to fighting imperial forces. yeah we got to see what the sisters would do in a "1st war for armageddon aftermath" situation and lore indicating the actual psykic awakening.. and it was locked in the colelctors edition in a month when most sisters fans had biiig expenses :( )

BrianDavion wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
The video for each PA always included the symbols for the factions inside. The last one had GK, DA and TS afaik.

Not sure its certain they will all get stuff.

Sisters had their symbol on the Faith PA - but I am not aware they got anything (rules wise) in that?

and NO the boxed set does not count as it was a badly handled pre-release rather than a tie into PA.

I would think it will be a big DA supplement, some bits and pieces for TS - likely relic, strats and such like. Maybe pics for GK.

except it did Tie into PA, they featured in the battle and it was released alongside F&F it was clearly INTENDED to be tie in marketing. sadly it didn't work very well. apparently one of the more intreasting stories involving the sisters was apparently in the CE only (basicly the you had the Alpha legion awakening the psykic potential of an entire planet, the IoM fighting them off, and the sisters deciding that these people where conduits for the emperor's will and thus should be protected. the Inqusition disagreed and the sisters accepted this as opposed to fighting imperial forces. yeah we got to see what the sisters would do in a "1st war for armageddon aftermath" situation and lore indicating the actual psykic awakening.. and it was locked in the colelctors edition in a month when most sisters fans had biiig expenses :( )

Thanks for the info - I normally get the campaigns but this has seemed to contain so little in actual story that I gave it hard pass. And of course they never bothered to mention that story.

Was there any Church/Sisters rules content in PA? The symbol was there - IIRC it was even the spinning symbol. They did alot of marketing for Sisters (and then were shocked when people bought them) , they were in the video I guess.

Hence I don't think we can assume that all three GK< DA and Ts get stuff _ well obviosuly DA gets a new supplement in all but name but the others......

No. There was just fluff in PA book so so far PA is zero for sisters. Maybe thankfully. Having to buy codex AND PA book for rules right away would be bit rich. Of course codex being this new not even sure do sisters ever get any PA stuff.

 Mr Morden wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
The video for each PA always included the symbols for the factions inside. The last one had GK, DA and TS afaik.

Not sure its certain they will all get stuff.

Sisters had their symbol on the Faith PA - but I am not aware they got anything (rules wise) in that?

and NO the boxed set does not count as it was a badly handled pre-release rather than a tie into PA.

I would think it will be a big DA supplement, some bits and pieces for TS - likely relic, strats and such like. Maybe pics for GK.

except it did Tie into PA, they featured in the battle and it was released alongside F&F it was clearly INTENDED to be tie in marketing. sadly it didn't work very well. apparently one of the more intreasting stories involving the sisters was apparently in the CE only (basicly the you had the Alpha legion awakening the psykic potential of an entire planet, the IoM fighting them off, and the sisters deciding that these people where conduits for the emperor's will and thus should be protected. the Inqusition disagreed and the sisters accepted this as opposed to fighting imperial forces. yeah we got to see what the sisters would do in a "1st war for armageddon aftermath" situation and lore indicating the actual psykic awakening.. and it was locked in the colelctors edition in a month when most sisters fans had biiig expenses :( )

Thanks for the info - I normally get the campaigns but this has seemed to contain so little in actual story that I gave it hard pass. And of course they never bothered to mention that story.

Was there any Church/Sisters rules content in PA? The symbol was there - IIRC it was even the spinning symbol. They did alot of marketing for Sisters (and then were shocked when people bought them) , they were in the video I guess.

Hence I don't think we can assume that all three GK< DA and Ts get stuff _ well obviosuly DA gets a new supplement in all but name but the others......

in the core book the sisters get some mentions and are pretty vital to the fighting against the word bearers, but yeah not really worth it. I can't help but compare these books to some of the 7th edition books, and find them lacking. But I suppose GW knows people tend to buy the sourcebooks for rules more so then the fluff. I'm the type who'd happily buy a sorucebook that's 95% fluff, (I got into table top gaming through battletech and thats the norm with Btech) but I suspect I'm in the minority and frankly GW's campaign books don't tell a good eneugh story for that anyway. oddly their world building can be solid (the marine supplements aren't perfect but they're not bad and IMHO are, fluff wise proably god sends for fans of 1st founding chapters that aren't one of the big four)

PA meanwhile has the salamanders, sisters, guard black templars, white scars, word bearers, iron warriors, and night lords all present... yet there's nothing of substance. the most intreasting thing is the apparent confirmation that apparently stealth strike cruisers are a thing now. (I'm almost hoping that the BFG relaunch is set in the era indmutius simply to give us some info on any potential new marine ship developments)

tneva82 wrote:
No. There was just fluff in PA book so so far PA is zero for sisters. Maybe thankfully. Having to buy codex AND PA book for rules right away would be bit rich. Of course codex being this new not even sure do sisters ever get any PA stuff.

The original advert had their symbol and said - everyone gets something but they never defined what. It might be the full Codex and models release is what Sisters get in the New Year.

So far its: (correct me if missed anything)

* Eldar
**Craftworld Eldar : New rules + new Pheonix Lord Model, new Banshees model
** Dark Eldar: New rules and Model for Drahzar and Incubi

*Imperial
**Space Marines Lots of new rules and strats
*** Black Templars: Full Supplement
*** Blood Angels: Full Supplement + Mehophsiton Model

*Chaos
** Chaos Space Marines: new Sorcerer model and new rules, relics and strats - and NAMES!

* Tyranids: new rules, strats and relics.

unless eldar and D-eldar didn't get it, everyone seems to have gotten a random names table.

and yeah I agree with Tneva82 that I'm kinda glad sisters didn't get any rules in PA2 that woulda been annoying.

So far though we've got a pretty solid pattern emerging.


First of all, non-marine codices all seem to be getting "create a chapter rules" and each army gets a page of strats relics and warlord traits. (sadly for DE and CWE the relics warlord traits and strats where all Ynnari stuff, which really shouldn't count, but GW it seems disagrees)
they're also using the PA releases to update the Marine varient codices to be on par with codex Space Marines. (which suggests BAs, DAs and SWs likely won't see a new codex anytime soon)

 cole1114 wrote:
If I'm right about the "stratagems to become certain cults" thing I hope tzaangors can be effected. They'd really benefit from pavoni's +1 to advance/charge, compared to any actual marine units.

Where did you bring the idea such a stratagem even exists?
Or if he does, that this is what pavoni does?

Because I've seen nothing about RotD TS content even at the most unreliable sources.