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 Red Corsair wrote:

Voss wrote:

Leggy wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Exodites don't work as anything outside of a one-off campaign army, unless the fluff is dramatically reworked.

Why not?

Because really they only fight if someone shows up on their doorstep, and they go right back to breeding dinosaurs and picking berries once the Craftworlds wander in and clean their porch.

Same could be said of Genestealer Cults, actually GSC are worse. They plan for one big fight, then all get digested anyway

Unless they're wrong or interrupted (See: Vigilus).

Exodites fight only on their own doorstep, but anyone might invade them. The same argument could be made against T'au... their empire is only in a TINY* little portion of the Ultima Segmentum, so they're "supposed" to only fight Imperial Guard, Orks, Drukhari, Chaos, Ultramarines and other nearby chapters, Deathwatch & Ordo Xenos, Sautekh Dynasty, Order of the Argent Shroud, Triplex Phall, Hive Fleets Kraken, Behemoth and MAYBE Leviathan, and whichever craftworld is around there (I forget). But we make it work. We think up explanations, or, alternatively, don't care. It's worked fine for over half of 40k's existence.

One can always fall back on "the warp did it", after all.

If GW wanted to build a whole new Eldar faction, Exodites would've been at least as viable as Ynnari.

Nonetheless, here we are. They tried Ynarri, and either changed their minds, or completely flubbed the landing.

But I'd hope we can all agree that despite troupe versatility, Harlequins could really, really, REALLY use a broader choice of units, and PA would be a nice excuse to give it to them.

* - Comparatively. Space is very, very big.

 Carnikang wrote:
Not just purestrains, but a whole cult was basically 'regenerated' from a single fourth generation coming back to a planet after it had been purged of a Genestealer infestation... because they had the forethought to send someone off world.

People need to stop acting like GSC are a small contained thing that the Tyranids dismiss as just biomass when they're actually an effective and insidious tool that is used.

Yup, they note in the codex that sometimes the Tyranids never even turn up so the cult simply continues to expand until they are stopped.

In PA1, it's written that some younger Exodites have become more proactive about this whole rebuilding the Eldar empire thing and have fought alongside the Biel-Tan Swordwind. So GW could if they wanted justify the introduction of Exodites as a faction by using this angle of them stirring from their previous isolation.

If GW could retcon Oldcrons into Newcrons, bring back multiple Primarchs, split the Imperium in two, blow up Cadia, and create the Ynnari ex nihilo, I'm sure they can think up a reason for dinosaur-riding Amish Eldar to get involved in galactic politics.

Come to think of it... Harlequins don't even have any named characters...

And wasn't that female Shadowseer character, who's been big in the lore, a big part of the initial trailers, featuring that bald female inquisitor?

Honestly... that would be an IDEAL Harlequin release! Give them a mini for a cool, compelling named character, who plays a significant role in the current story, is herself a psyker, and has tons of pre-existing backstory!

Give me her and Fulgrim at the culmination of PA and I'll be thinking, despite not playing either faction (as of yet), "You know? Not bad, GW. Coulda been better, but nice conclusion".

 Grimgold wrote:

 xttz wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised to see PA4 previewed this Sunday with pre-order on the 4th. It's a relatively small release they can squeeze in before the Sisters kits later in Jan.

Hopefully that would mean detail articles next week, and we can find out what cool new stuff we are getting.

I am really hoping it's preorder 4th and out on 11th. 11th is deadline for new material to be allowed at LVO in Vegas. I'd like to take DAs if possible, but don't want to take them with existing rules. So currently my schedule is, keep painting Ravenguard, hope for DA release on 11th (giving me 2 days to decide on list) and fall back on Eldar wraiths if the other 2 fail

I guess we will know this Sunday if the DA will be preorder on the 4th,.

nataliereed1984 wrote:
Come to think of it... Harlequins don't even have any named characters...

And wasn't that female Shadowseer character, who's been big in the lore, a big part of the initial trailers, featuring that bald female inquisitor?

Honestly... that would be an IDEAL Harlequin release! Give them a mini for a cool, compelling named character, who plays a significant role in the current story, is herself a psyker, and has tons of pre-existing backstory!

Give me her and Fulgrim at the culmination of PA and I'll be thinking, despite not playing either faction (as of yet), "You know? Not bad, GW. Coulda been better, but nice conclusion".

You mean Sylandri Veilwalker?

The problem is we're not sure whether that's really the name of an individual or the name of a character role, like the Dread Pirate Roberts, since as far as we know Harlequins give up their identities and literally become the characters they play.

Nah, the Harlequins will get a named Primaris Lieutenant and be happy about it.

Sorry, had to.

 Eldarsif wrote:
Nah, the Harlequins will get a named Primaris Lieutenant and be happy about it.

Sorry, had to.

No, you really didn't. Don't spam the forum.

Iracundus wrote:

nataliereed1984 wrote:
Come to think of it... Harlequins don't even have any named characters...

And wasn't that female Shadowseer character, who's been big in the lore, a big part of the initial trailers, featuring that bald female inquisitor?

Honestly... that would be an IDEAL Harlequin release! Give them a mini for a cool, compelling named character, who plays a significant role in the current story, is herself a psyker, and has tons of pre-existing backstory!

Give me her and Fulgrim at the culmination of PA and I'll be thinking, despite not playing either faction (as of yet), "You know? Not bad, GW. Coulda been better, but nice conclusion".

You mean Sylandri Veilwalker?

The problem is we're not sure whether that's really the name of an individual or the name of a character role, like the Dread Pirate Roberts, since as far as we know Harlequins give up their identities and literally become the characters they play.

Basically a Phoenix lord then.... It really doesn't matter if it's one or the other really, it only partially affects the fluff if that, it wouldn't stop a special character with the 'name'.

Are Harlys the olny faction in the game that doesn't have a named special character?

Thats pretty weird when you think about it.
Would make sense then to introduce one with their eventual PA book.

 dan2026 wrote:
Are Harlys the olny faction in the game that doesn't have a named special character?

Thats pretty weird when you think about it.
Would make sense then to introduce one with their eventual PA book.

Sisters of Silence - they have one coming with a new model though.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Are Harlys the olny faction in the game that doesn't have a named special character?

Thats pretty weird when you think about it.
Would make sense then to introduce one with their eventual PA book.

Sisters of Silence - they have one coming with a new model though.

I should of said codex faction really.
In fact Harlys also have the lowest unit codex unit count in the game at 7.
Even Custards have more. And they have a special character!

 Mr Morden wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Are Harlys the olny faction in the game that doesn't have a named special character?

Thats pretty weird when you think about it.
Would make sense then to introduce one with their eventual PA book.

Sisters of Silence - they have one coming with a new model though.

Harli's tend not to feature in novels (edit: as the protagionists) though so aren't likely to ever get a novel tie in char.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Are Harlys the olny faction in the game that doesn't have a named special character?

Thats pretty weird when you think about it.
Would make sense then to introduce one with their eventual PA book.

Sisters of Silence - they have one coming with a new model though.

Harli's tend not to feature in novels (edit: as the protagionists) though so aren't likely to ever get a novel tie in char.

Err at least one character that fits this bill has been discussed only a few posts above!

 dan2026 wrote:
Are Harlys the olny faction in the game that doesn't have a named special character?

Thats pretty weird when you think about it.
Would make sense then to introduce one with their eventual PA book.

Militarum Tempestus used to not, but getting rolled into the main codex changes that on technicality.

 dan2026 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Are Harlys the olny faction in the game that doesn't have a named special character?

Thats pretty weird when you think about it.
Would make sense then to introduce one with their eventual PA book.

Sisters of Silence - they have one coming with a new model though.

I should of said codex faction really.

Genestealer Cults.

I want to know what’s gonna be happening with Orks and AdMech the most. I hope AdMech are in the next book, I’m really curious to find out what the wing rumour engine ends up being.

 Dryaktylus wrote:

Genestealer Cults.

Genestealer Cults are in a weird spot and have been since their inception with the Primus, Patriarch, and Magus. They were limited more or less like special characters but were unnamed.

nataliereed1984 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Honestly, harlequins do not need more random army-wide rules, they need an update to their base rules to make them less one note and boring.

We have tons of troupe-specific stuff, stratagems, warlord traits, etc...the problem is that the rules for troupes, bikes, and death jesters are soooooo booooring in 8th.

Or they could add more options since having 1 choice for infantry, 1 for bike and one for a vehicle (Technically 2 I guess but we all know it's 1) is always going to grow boring fast. At the current state I wish they were still just add ons to the other eldar factions, it seemed like they were planning on fleshing them out, but several years later and here we are still

At least we didn't buy into Ynnari.

You know, that fun exciting dynamic faction they introduced and then totally didn't warp and twist and mangle to the point where I don't even know anymore how you would construct a Ynnari army legally.

Or Drukhari, where the army got divided into 3 tiny armies that interact exactly as much as Space Marines interact with Admech.

Or Corsairs. *shudder*

I'm playing an Eldar faction and I've still got rules for all my models, haven't been required to buy 200 bucks of new stuff to keep my lists legal, and haven't seen any wild swings of the nerfbat all edition. Counting those blessings.

Different factions of the Drukhari interact with eachother all the time! They literally need each other in order for their society to function. They hate each other, only fight together out of necessity through clenched teeth, and stab one another in the back the second they get back to Commoragh, but that's all part of the fun of the faction. On top of that, they have special rules regarding how you can construct your army that make it a lot more viable to run multiple smaller detachments (though this gets effed up when tournament rules or whatever ignore them being an exception and insist that Drukhari have to stick to the same three-detachment-max rule as everyone else…).

ANYWAY…

Totally agreed on the mess they made of Ynarri, though. We are now in a situation where the two biggest Ynarri-aligned characters outside of the triad - Lelith Hesperax and Eldrad Ulthuan - CANNOT BE RUN IN YNARRI DETACHMENTS WITH YNARRI RULES. That is… that is definitely something else.

Yeah, we can take 3 HQs and 3 troops and gain 3CP, or we can take a Battalion with 2Cp and 3 troops and gain 5CP. Very viable, much special rule, wow.

Craftworld Eldar detachments synergize better with Drukhari units than Drukhari units from different factions synergize with each other, because I can cast psychic powers from my craftworld units like Jinx, Terrify, and Doom and have them interact with my Drukhari units.

Like I said, the interactions you get between them are identical to what you get if you bring Space Marines and Admech in the same list. They're available as allies, and that's...about it?

Except, you know, multiple traits, relics and army rules for free.
But yeah, identical other than that minor detail.

 Apple Peel wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Are Harlys the olny faction in the game that doesn't have a named special character?

Thats pretty weird when you think about it.
Would make sense then to introduce one with their eventual PA book.

Militarum Tempestus used to not, but getting rolled into the main codex changes that on technicality.

We actually did have a named character added near the end of 7th. He came in the "Death Masque" box.

His model was the normal Death Jester model, you didn't get a new model for him.

He added 1 special rule to the standard Death Jester rules.

In the little fluff booklet alongside the Deathwatch special character they released with the same box (Who did have a unique mini, and is still in the game) he got shot in the face at the end of the book after the Harlequins lost spectacularly.

And then when 8th dropped he poofed out of existence. I think they mentioned at some point in the Rising Storm fluff that he's some kind of force ghost now?

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww yeah Xenos rule support!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:
Except, you know, multiple traits, relics and army rules for free.
But yeah, identical other than that minor detail.

What do you mean? Do Admech and Marines not get their army traits, relics and rules if you take them as allies?

Or are you referring to the fact that there are a couple generic Drukhari relics you can choose to take on different drukhari HQs?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Dryaktylus wrote:

Genestealer Cults.

Genestealer Cults are in a weird spot and have been since their inception with the Primus, Patriarch, and Magus. They were limited more or less like special characters but were unnamed.

Which is AWESOME by the way, and I wish they would do this for more factions. I get the fun, flavorful rules you usually get with special characters, but it's not limited to a certain sub-faction and as a trade-off they're not spammable. GSC special characters are how everyone's special characters should work.

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Are Harlys the olny faction in the game that doesn't have a named special character?

Thats pretty weird when you think about it.
Would make sense then to introduce one with their eventual PA book.

Sisters of Silence - they have one coming with a new model though.

I should of said codex faction really.

Genestealer Cults.

I guess you are right.

It just feels weird because GS Cults have had so much more support than Harlys it isn't even funny.
Cults have 20 unique units by my count, where as Harlys have only 8!
And one of those 8 you can only take 1 per army!

I think Harlequins need a bit of love.

the_scotsman wrote:
Which is AWESOME by the way, and I wish they would do this for more factions. I get the fun, flavorful rules you usually get with special characters, but it's not limited to a certain sub-faction and as a trade-off they're not spammable. GSC special characters are how everyone's special characters should work.

Yes exactly! Named characters are so unnecessary. If you want your character to have a name, give them one! I'm so sad that all these new awesome Primaris characters are chapter locked, I'd much prefer if they were generic as the Primaris could certainly use some variety in their HQ loadouts.

The Thousand Sons can now dedicate their Sorcerers to one of the nine Cults of the Legion – a callback to their arcane roots on fallen Prospero – providing them with a plethora of new tactical options.

Would you say I have a plethora of new tactical options?

Note how they used the phrase "tactical options" and not "powers" or "abilities". My prediction is that Thousand Sons will get 9 new stratagems, each locked to a specific Cult keyword. Then they'll get a special rule that will allow a pure Thousand Sons army to give each sorcerer or exalted sorcerer a Cult of the Legion keyword from a list of 9. The keyword won't confer any bonus but will allow use of the associated stratagem.

the_scotsman wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:
Except, you know, multiple traits, relics and army rules for free.
But yeah, identical other than that minor detail.

What do you mean? Do Admech and Marines not get their army traits, relics and rules if you take them as allies?

Or are you referring to the fact that there are a couple generic Drukhari relics you can choose to take on different drukhari HQs?

I'm saying that you should probably read the Dark Eldar codex if you think its 'identical.' If you bring an archon, haemonculus and succubus, they each get a warlord trait and relic. The kabal, coven and kult each get their obsesssions and general army traits and having the others turns nothing off.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

The Thousand Sons can now dedicate their Sorcerers to one of the nine Cults of the Legion – a callback to their arcane roots on fallen Prospero – providing them with a plethora of new tactical options.

Would you say I have a plethora of new tactical options?

Note how they used the phrase "tactical options" and not "powers" or "abilities". My prediction is that Thousand Sons will get 9 new stratagems, each locked to a specific Cult keyword. Then they'll get a special rule that will allow a pure Thousand Sons army to give each sorcerer or exalted sorcerer a Cult of the Legion keyword from a list of 9. The keyword won't confer any bonus but will allow use of the associated stratagem.

Rules bloat rules bloat rules bloat

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

The Thousand Sons can now dedicate their Sorcerers to one of the nine Cults of the Legion – a callback to their arcane roots on fallen Prospero – providing them with a plethora of new tactical options.

Would you say I have a plethora of new tactical options?

Note how they used the phrase "tactical options" and not "powers" or "abilities". My prediction is that Thousand Sons will get 9 new stratagems, each locked to a specific Cult keyword. Then they'll get a special rule that will allow a pure Thousand Sons army to give each sorcerer or exalted sorcerer a Cult of the Legion keyword from a list of 9. The keyword won't confer any bonus but will allow use of the associated stratagem.

A whole planet was pulled out from the warp and its the TS home planet, Magnus is pulling off the biggest spell in the history of spells, and yet... this is a DA book, we'll just get a bunch of stratagems, and get roundhouse kicked in the teeth to showcase how cool marines are.
Feels bad man, I don't get why they didn't just release marine supplements instead of hijaking Psychic awakening for everybody else, did we run out of marine chapters yet?

 Crimson wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Which is AWESOME by the way, and I wish they would do this for more factions. I get the fun, flavorful rules you usually get with special characters, but it's not limited to a certain sub-faction and as a trade-off they're not spammable. GSC special characters are how everyone's special characters should work.

Yes exactly! Named characters are so unnecessary. If you want your character to have a name, give them one! I'm so sad that all these new awesome Primaris characters are chapter locked, I'd much prefer if they were generic as the Primaris could certainly use some variety in their HQ loadouts.

They would need to bring back actually having plenty of options for Characters rather than the mess we see with the latest Canoness rules.