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Honestly, harlequins do not need more random army-wide rules, they need an update to their base rules to make them less one note and boring.

We have tons of troupe-specific stuff, stratagems, warlord traits, etc...the problem is that the rules for troupes, bikes, and death jesters are soooooo booooring in 8th.

[quote=wraith[cs] 780018 10670564 null]What I've learned from this thread : I'm not allowed to complain if I don't see a new Ragnar Blackmane model for Saga of the Beast. I can't complain because I play 'Space Marines', even though that particular model is almost 30 years old (and I bought him when he came out).

I also play Eldar, and the majority of my Phoenix Lords (and Warp Spiders) are almost as old. Can't complain there, either, because Necrons haven't had as many units.

Dang.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

nataliereed1984 wrote:
And again, I am saying this as someone who UNDERSTANDS AND SHARES YOUR CORE FRUSTRATION.

I share it too. [edit]Redacted: Damn I didn't see there was a full next page after the one I was answering on[/edit]
Anyway, if by chance the message was about me, thanks for your comment on my language skills, it's really appreciated!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lazarus got his name on his shoulder lol. What a freak. Everyone knows that shoulders are for writing the name of long dead saints!

nah the shoulder pads are for writing the names of that space marine hero who wore the armor back in the 37 millenium and you're assured died heroicly, being a hero, for heroic reasons!

If it's primaris the armor didn't exist back in the 37th millennium.

the_scotsman wrote:
Honestly, harlequins do not need more random army-wide rules, they need an update to their base rules to make them less one note and boring.

We have tons of troupe-specific stuff, stratagems, warlord traits, etc...the problem is that the rules for troupes, bikes, and death jesters are soooooo booooring in 8th.

For as few models that they have, harlies is one of the best codexes out there. Nothing is an auto choice and compared to Eldar, they are spoiled for their relics. Strats and WTs are also good.
Things I would like to see...

Troupe Master on skyweaver
Death Jester improvements (maybe even a named character)
An infiltrating foot unit (with rules that center around disruption)
Another hvy version of the voidweaver with different weapons (one being indirect)
A flier

Regardless, they are still a very fun army to play.

 bullyboy wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Honestly, harlequins do not need more random army-wide rules, they need an update to their base rules to make them less one note and boring.

We have tons of troupe-specific stuff, stratagems, warlord traits, etc...the problem is that the rules for troupes, bikes, and death jesters are soooooo booooring in 8th.

For as few models that they have, harlies is one of the best codexes out there. Nothing is an auto choice and compared to Eldar, they are spoiled for their relics. Strats and WTs are also good.
Things I would like to see...

Troupe Master on skyweaver
Death Jester improvements (maybe even a named character)
An infiltrating foot unit (with rules that center around disruption)
Another hvy version of the voidweaver with different weapons (one being indirect)
A flier

Regardless, they are still a very fun army to play.

eh, I disagree, having played them as a full army since their release in 7th I long for the days my wargear and units felt like a fun bag of tricks instead of eldar-shaped slaanesh daemons, but it's OT.

BrianDavion wrote:
I'm sure they'll get something.

Maybe Harli's vs Custodes, "Golden throne messanger run 2 webway boogaloo?

GW did say everyone will get something. On the other side of that pairing...I’m not sure what Custodes will get. I thought for awhile it’d be sisters of silence but with them getting a WD index I’m not so sure.

the_scotsman wrote:
Honestly, harlequins do not need more random army-wide rules, they need an update to their base rules to make them less one note and boring.

We have tons of troupe-specific stuff, stratagems, warlord traits, etc...the problem is that the rules for troupes, bikes, and death jesters are soooooo booooring in 8th.

Or they could add more options since having 1 choice for infantry, 1 for bike and one for a vehicle (Technically 2 I guess but we all know it's 1) is always going to grow boring fast. At the current state I wish they were still just add ons to the other eldar factions, it seemed like they were planning on fleshing them out, but several years later and here we are still

 Red Corsair wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Honestly, harlequins do not need more random army-wide rules, they need an update to their base rules to make them less one note and boring.

We have tons of troupe-specific stuff, stratagems, warlord traits, etc...the problem is that the rules for troupes, bikes, and death jesters are soooooo booooring in 8th.

Or they could add more options since having 1 choice for infantry, 1 for bike and one for a vehicle (Technically 2 I guess but we all know it's 1) is always going to grow boring fast. At the current state I wish they were still just add ons to the other eldar factions, it seemed like they were planning on fleshing them out, but several years later and here we are still

At least we didn't buy into Ynnari.

You know, that fun exciting dynamic faction they introduced and then totally didn't warp and twist and mangle to the point where I don't even know anymore how you would construct a Ynnari army legally.

Or Drukhari, where the army got divided into 3 tiny armies that interact exactly as much as Space Marines interact with Admech.

Or Corsairs. *shudder*

I'm playing an Eldar faction and I've still got rules for all my models, haven't been required to buy 200 bucks of new stuff to keep my lists legal, and haven't seen any wild swings of the nerfbat all edition. Counting those blessings.

I do hope they do more with the Ynarri, I like the idea of using disparate factions fighting under the banner of Death!

Only reason I even bought a damn pointy ear.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

nataliereed1984 wrote:
And again, I am saying this as someone who UNDERSTANDS AND SHARES YOUR CORE FRUSTRATION.

I share it too. [edit]Redacted: Damn I didn't see there was a full next page after the one I was answering on[/edit]
Anyway, if by chance the message was about me, thanks for your comment on my language skills, it's really appreciated!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lazarus got his name on his shoulder lol. What a freak. Everyone knows that shoulders are for writing the name of long dead saints!

nah the shoulder pads are for writing the names of that space marine hero who wore the armor back in the 37 millenium and you're assured died heroicly, being a hero, for heroic reasons!

If it's primaris the armor didn't exist back in the 37th millennium.

Shoulder pads and some other features are interchangeable.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Honestly, harlequins do not need more random army-wide rules, they need an update to their base rules to make them less one note and boring.

We have tons of troupe-specific stuff, stratagems, warlord traits, etc...the problem is that the rules for troupes, bikes, and death jesters are soooooo booooring in 8th.

Or they could add more options since having 1 choice for infantry, 1 for bike and one for a vehicle (Technically 2 I guess but we all know it's 1) is always going to grow boring fast. At the current state I wish they were still just add ons to the other eldar factions, it seemed like they were planning on fleshing them out, but several years later and here we are still

At least we didn't buy into Ynnari.

You know, that fun exciting dynamic faction they introduced and then totally didn't warp and twist and mangle to the point where I don't even know anymore how you would construct a Ynnari army legally.

Or Drukhari, where the army got divided into 3 tiny armies that interact exactly as much as Space Marines interact with Admech.

Or Corsairs. *shudder*

I'm playing an Eldar faction and I've still got rules for all my models, haven't been required to buy 200 bucks of new stuff to keep my lists legal, and haven't seen any wild swings of the nerfbat all edition. Counting those blessings.

Different factions of the Drukhari interact with eachother all the time! They literally need each other in order for their society to function. They hate each other, only fight together out of necessity through clenched teeth, and stab one another in the back the second they get back to Commoragh, but that's all part of the fun of the faction. On top of that, they have special rules regarding how you can construct your army that make it a lot more viable to run multiple smaller detachments (though this gets effed up when tournament rules or whatever ignore them being an exception and insist that Drukhari have to stick to the same three-detachment-max rule as everyone else…).

ANYWAY…

Totally agreed on the mess they made of Ynarri, though. We are now in a situation where the two biggest Ynarri-aligned characters outside of the triad - Lelith Hesperax and Eldrad Ulthuan - CANNOT BE RUN IN YNARRI DETACHMENTS WITH YNARRI RULES. That is… that is definitely something else.

In regards to the Harlequins, Drukhari, and Craftworlds it does feel like the future is more or less Codex: Aeldari rather than three factions meant to stand alone. Hell, I even think the Ynnari was a contingency plan to do just that originally.

 Eldarsif wrote:
In regards to the Harlequins, Drukhari, and Craftworlds it does feel like the future is more or less Codex: Aeldari rather than three factions meant to stand alone. Hell, I even think the Ynnari was a contingency plan to do just that originally.

I think Ynnari was the method they planned on utilizing to 'freshen up' the range. One of the big things that kept getting hinted at by Goodwin at the time we saw the Visarch was that he might be a sign of how to expect things to look in the future; archaic but new.

It's, personally, a component of why I think it's taken so long for them to actually do anything specific with the Ynnari as a standalone faction. It feels like they intended on the faction getting an army in and of itself.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
In regards to the Harlequins, Drukhari, and Craftworlds it does feel like the future is more or less Codex: Aeldari rather than three factions meant to stand alone. Hell, I even think the Ynnari was a contingency plan to do just that originally.

I think Ynnari was the method they planned on utilizing to 'freshen up' the range. One of the big things that kept getting hinted at by Goodwin at the time we saw the Visarch was that he might be a sign of how to expect things to look in the future; archaic but new.

It's, personally, a component of why I think it's taken so long for them to actually do anything specific with the Ynnari as a standalone faction. It feels like they intended on the faction getting an army in and of itself.

The tie in novels do have at least one other major character they could have introduced (although we are still hampered by the no model, no rules crap)

I donlt recall them having any specilaist units described - its more that the various followers do what they always do?

I must be rare in actually liking the division of the three elements of DE Society in the game, true they could bring back the great characters that they dropped - again because of the no model crap. That woud go along way.

In regards to the Harlequins, Drukhari, and Craftworlds it does feel like the future is more or less Codex: Aeldari rather than three factions meant to stand alone. Hell, I even think the Ynnari was a contingency plan to do just that originally.

Which is fethed up given they are spending so much time deperatly trying to highlight the relatively tiny differences between Marine Chapters but trying to bring together the various Eldar factions which already are so very different.

What has been the timeframe for rule previews on the previous books?

I'm dying to find out more about the cult rules for thousand sons.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
In regards to the Harlequins, Drukhari, and Craftworlds it does feel like the future is more or less Codex: Aeldari rather than three factions meant to stand alone. Hell, I even think the Ynnari was a contingency plan to do just that originally.

I think Ynnari was the method they planned on utilizing to 'freshen up' the range. One of the big things that kept getting hinted at by Goodwin at the time we saw the Visarch was that he might be a sign of how to expect things to look in the future; archaic but new.

It's, personally, a component of why I think it's taken so long for them to actually do anything specific with the Ynnari as a standalone faction. It feels like they intended on the faction getting an army in and of itself.

If so, it's weird that they wouldn't have gone with Exodites instead.

I mean, I personally think Exodites sound kind of boring, even with the dinosaurs, but it's one of those rare examples of a significant faction that's been a part of the lore for decades, and a meaningful player on the galactic stage, but hasn't been released.

I mean… is there anyone else like that? Barghesi and Hrud, I guess?

(I personally think Kill Team would be a great context in which to introduce actual Hrud minis. A whole Hrud army doesn't make much sense, but a small band of them? Heck yeah! Would've been a lot more fun for the Rogue Trader expansion than the Gellerpox Infected)

Exodites don't work as anything outside of a one-off campaign army, unless the fluff is dramatically reworked.

Racerguy180 wrote:
I do hope they do more with the Ynarri, I like the idea of using disparate factions fighting under the banner of Death!

Only reason I even bought a damn pointy ear.

It would be cool if the Ynnari was a mix of Harliquins, Corsairs and Exodites. United peoples and all that jazz.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Right now the only realistic primarch return for Loyalists would be Russ.

I am a proponent of the Lions return, but on the tabletop he wouldn't be any different than Guilliman.

They would perform pretty differently, in the HH Guliman was second or third string when it came to his personal combat ability, the Lion was top tier, arguably one of the three strongest. If guilliman could fight mortarion to a stand still, and Magnus could be beaten by a normal marine (grimnar), the Lion would probably be able to take down either of the current daemon primarchs on his own. Which means he would play nothing like guilliman, where as guilliman wants to hang back and buff, the lion would be in the enemies face, deleting entire squads of opponents.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Exodites don't work as anything outside of a one-off campaign army, unless the fluff is dramatically reworked.

Why not?

Leggy wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Exodites don't work as anything outside of a one-off campaign army, unless the fluff is dramatically reworked.

Why not?

Because really they only fight if someone shows up on their doorstep, and they go right back to breeding dinosaurs and picking berries once the Craftworlds wander in and clean their porch.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Exodites don't work as anything outside of a one-off campaign army, unless the fluff is dramatically reworked.

I'd say the exact same thing about Genestealer Cults. And yet somehow we had resources wasted on those.

Not that I'm advocating also wasting resources on Exodites.

DaPino wrote:
What has been the timeframe for rule previews on the previous books?

I'm dying to find out more about the cult rules for thousand sons.

The Typical Schedule is:

Release Date: Product Available
Release Date - 7 Days: Pre-Order Date
Release Date - 8 to 12 Days: Rules Preview
Release Date - 13 Days: Announcement of Pre-Order next Saturday

 alextroy wrote:

DaPino wrote:
What has been the timeframe for rule previews on the previous books?

I'm dying to find out more about the cult rules for thousand sons.

The Typical Schedule is:

Release Date: Product Available
Release Date - 7 Days: Pre-Order Date
Release Date - 8 to 12 Days: Rules Preview
Release Date - 13 Days: Announcement of Pre-Order next Saturday

Well, in that case I'm almost hoping we get an announcement of Preorder around Jan. 4, and full release around the 25th.

I wouldn't be surprised to see PA4 previewed this Sunday with pre-order on the 4th. It's a relatively small release they can squeeze in before the Sisters kits later in Jan.

 xttz wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised to see PA4 previewed this Sunday with pre-order on the 4th. It's a relatively small release they can squeeze in before the Sisters kits later in Jan.

Hopefully that would mean detail articles next week, and we can find out what cool new stuff we are getting.

Voss wrote:

Leggy wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Exodites don't work as anything outside of a one-off campaign army, unless the fluff is dramatically reworked.

Why not?

Because really they only fight if someone shows up on their doorstep, and they go right back to breeding dinosaurs and picking berries once the Craftworlds wander in and clean their porch.

Same could be said of Genestealer Cults, actually GSC are worse. They plan for one big fight, then all get digested anyway

 Red Corsair wrote:

Voss wrote:

Leggy wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Exodites don't work as anything outside of a one-off campaign army, unless the fluff is dramatically reworked.

Why not?

Because really they only fight if someone shows up on their doorstep, and they go right back to breeding dinosaurs and picking berries once the Craftworlds wander in and clean their porch.

Same could be said of Genestealer Cults, actually GSC are worse. They plan for one big fight, then all get digested anyway

I mean, the Codex lore disputes this. They actively spread their cults to systems, sectors... etc. Many actually make a Pilgrimage to the planet that is being Tyrani-formed by Hive Fleet Tiamat, and then are sent off with a purpose once their 'Prophets' set foot on the world.

I could see Exodites becoming active and beginning a war in the name of Khaine/WorldSpiritKhaine, using the Webway to travel, rather than starships. While I don't think it's likely, the 41st millennium is full of possibilities.

Remember that the Fifth Generation Purestrain Genestealers can be sent out to other areas on the same planet, or even other planets, in order to begin the cycle again...

Not just purestrains, but a whole cult was basically 'regenerated' from a single fourth generation coming back to a planet after it had been purged of a Genestealer infestation... because they had the forethought to send someone off world.

People need to stop acting like GSC are a small contained thing that the Tyranids dismiss as just biomass when they're actually an effective and insidious tool that is used.