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 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
For reference, BT got 34 distinct new Chapter-specifi rules in F&F whereas the Chaos Legions got 27 or 28, depending on Legion. The difference is entirely explainable by the six chapter-specific litanies the BT got. One of the new BT rules is just a rule telling you you're not allowed to use other rules, but is included for transparency's sake ("Chosen Champion").

BT had 6 Warlord traits. Each Legion got 6 Warlord Traits.

BT had 8 Stratagems. Each Legion got 7 or 8 Stratagems.

BT had 5 Relics. Each Legion got 6 Relics.

BT had 6 unique Maelstrom Objectives. Each Legion got 6 Maelstrom Objectives.

BT got the Knights of Sigismund, the Legions got no equivalent.

BT got 6 unique Chaplain Litanies, the Legions didn't.

BT thus got ~20% more unique rules.

This is, of course, not taking into account the power level of said rules. Knights of Sigismund is much better than some of the Stratagems of the Legions, but some of the Stratagems of the Legions are far better (especially the Night Lords' no fallback Stratagem, which is strictly better while being half the cost!), and none of the Legions wasted space on telling you you're not allowed to use things ("Chosen Champion"). Getting more rules without taking into account the relative power level of said rules is an exercise in futility, but it is not incorrect to state that the Black Templars got more rules than any given Chaos Legion from a strictly numerical point of view.

Personally, I'd say the World Eaters are the ones with the most room to complain; they're also limited by a "no Psykers!" rule but didn't get an equivalent of the six Litanies the Templars got to compensate for the relative lack of rules compared to their peers.

Also, just casually two of BT's rules are a bonus effect added on to their chapter tactic and Doctrines, plus all those rules now applying to vehicles. So two blanket army-wide rules you get all the time on all of your everything and now you get them on vehicles too.

(pssst: THAT'S WHY IT DOESNT FEEL LIKE THE LEGIONS GOT AS MUCH. BECAUSE ALL THEIR gak IS STUFF YOU GET ONLY 1-2 OF OR HAVE TO SPEND CP ON, AND BTS GOT A HUGE ARMY-WIDE BOOST, DESPITE BEING NEARLY IDENTICAL UNITS BECAUSE THEYRE BOTH MARINES.)

As a DA player, I'll take that 40 pages.....cheers.
Although the usual Anti-Marine crew are back at it again, it's already been pointed out that the majority of those pages are official datasheets for units that they have had access to for months. I'm pretty sure the only new datahseet will be Lazarus, unless they give DA access to Centurions (since they mentioned them in the fluff WD article), but I doubt it.
And guess what....shock horror, it will probably be the same for the SW too when they come around.

I am interested to see what GKs get though. They don't need a ton to make them competitive (ish), they just need the right tweak. They should get a reduction in CPs for some of their strats though, hope that happens.

At least we shall see this week and get a full reveal at the weekend from online videos.

As for Chaos not getting the same treatment, heresy is it's own reward

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Why are you counting pages?

I said number of rules. BA received more RULES than Tyranids. You even highlighted the sentence in your quotation. Page counts aren't particularly useful when those pages can have any number of images taking up ridiculous amounts of space.

What's your personal definition of a 'rule', though? The Iron Hands "The Flesh is Weak" trait has three distinct effects. Does that count as one rule, or three? I think most people would consider the new Sisters Acts of Faith ability as a single special rule, although it can be used in several different circumstances. Is each circumstance a 'rule'?

Counting pages is a perfectly sensible way to approximate what the volume of new content factions receive. Determining what constitutes a 'rule' can be far more subjective and dependent on circumstance. Unless GW start structuring game rules into legal-style clauses (for the record I hope they don't) then who has the 'most rules' will always depend on subjective interpretation.

Still, looking are some of the obvious equivalents the difference isn't a huge as your first post implied:
23 BA vs 17 Nid stratagems (other marine supplements typically get 16)
6 vs 7 psychic powers
6 warlord traits vs 10 adaptive physiologies
EDIT: Are the obscuration discipline & vanguard warlord traits here actually new content for the Blood Angels, or just reprinted from shadowspear? not sure

You accused BrianDavion of pushing a 'ridiculous false narrative' when he is demonstrably correct, and you're clearly pushing your own narrative on the volume of new marine content. Funnily enough if you'd argued about the equivalent quality of that content then we'd probably be in agreement, as there are some odd design decisions throughout the PA series that imply at least an unconscious bias (not just toward marines).

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It also doesn't take into account the fact that Nids must give up things to take their new things - eg - Hive Fleet Adaptions, Adaptive Physiology. What do BA give up for their rules?

Nids can take Adaptive Physiology via stratagem too, they don't have to give up a warlord trait for it. Hive Fleet Adaptions are comparable to successor chapters and are subject to similar (although not identical) trade-offs; i.e. Flesh Tearers lose access to named units like Dante & Mephistion but can use BA rules with certain limitations. Tyranids lose rules linked to named Hive Fleets, but keep access to their special characters.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
You've also forgotten the page(s) BA received detailing their improved sub faction bonus it looks like, if that's your metric.

I also skipped the page that defines what 'Tyranids units' are and how GSC interact with them. Technically new rules, but the waters get a bit muddy when pointing out things mixed in with recent FAQ changes or written to prevent future FAQ queries.

the_scotsman wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
For reference, BT got 34 distinct new Chapter-specifi rules in F&F whereas the Chaos Legions got 27 or 28, depending on Legion. The difference is entirely explainable by the six chapter-specific litanies the BT got. One of the new BT rules is just a rule telling you you're not allowed to use other rules, but is included for transparency's sake ("Chosen Champion").

BT had 6 Warlord traits. Each Legion got 6 Warlord Traits.

BT had 8 Stratagems. Each Legion got 7 or 8 Stratagems.

BT had 5 Relics. Each Legion got 6 Relics.

BT had 6 unique Maelstrom Objectives. Each Legion got 6 Maelstrom Objectives.

BT got the Knights of Sigismund, the Legions got no equivalent.

BT got 6 unique Chaplain Litanies, the Legions didn't.

BT thus got ~20% more unique rules.

This is, of course, not taking into account the power level of said rules. Knights of Sigismund is much better than some of the Stratagems of the Legions, but some of the Stratagems of the Legions are far better (especially the Night Lords' no fallback Stratagem, which is strictly better while being half the cost!), and none of the Legions wasted space on telling you you're not allowed to use things ("Chosen Champion"). Getting more rules without taking into account the relative power level of said rules is an exercise in futility, but it is not incorrect to state that the Black Templars got more rules than any given Chaos Legion from a strictly numerical point of view.

Personally, I'd say the World Eaters are the ones with the most room to complain; they're also limited by a "no Psykers!" rule but didn't get an equivalent of the six Litanies the Templars got to compensate for the relative lack of rules compared to their peers.

Also, just casually two of BT's rules are a bonus effect added on to their chapter tactic and Doctrines, plus all those rules now applying to vehicles. So two blanket army-wide rules you get all the time on all of your everything and now you get them on vehicles too.

(pssst: THAT'S WHY IT DOESNT FEEL LIKE THE LEGIONS GOT AS MUCH. BECAUSE ALL THEIR gak IS STUFF YOU GET ONLY 1-2 OF OR HAVE TO SPEND CP ON, AND BTS GOT A HUGE ARMY-WIDE BOOST, DESPITE BEING NEARLY IDENTICAL UNITS BECAUSE THEYRE BOTH MARINES.)

That was already the case in Codex: Space Marines. It's not a rule that's new to Faith & Fury. The comparison was on who got more stuff in Faith & Fury. No need to all-caps me.

 blood reaper wrote:

 aphyon wrote:
I laugh at this

GW got you guys again!. when 8th dropped an everything was in an index we all cheered-no more constant codex release- update after update for each new edition.

SInce this is supposed to be the final incarnation of the game.

I have not bought a book in years including all the supplements. why?

.I don't just play 8th
.I play 40K for fun
.I don't play ITC rules
.I only use CP for critical re-rolls not for stratagems(I never use them, so I don't even keep track of them anymore and good thing since it has turned into a super bloated system like formations in 7th)
.I don't CP farm
.I don't use the stupid cards that constantly change the objectives every turn for each player-preferring hard fixed objectives for both players.
.the only things I use when I play that are "special"-the generic captain re-roll 1s bubble, the salamanders chapter abilities-+2 strength on my warlord, single re-rolls per unit for hit/wound, negating ap-1 weapons, generic devastator doctrine and finally a single generic relic to give my warlord 5+ FNP

So all this debate about bloat, balance and the cost of buying all these books doesn't affect me at all. i have all the models i need to play my army in 8th I will gladly play against you if you want to use these things (except for ITC and the cards I won't play that game) however I will and have continued to play a more streamlined version of 8th while having fun doing it, if I can't beat you with how I fight on the tabletop (and those fickle dice gods) then that's on me......so far i have done just fine.

"Heh, you're all a bunch of silly children. Rule bloat? Broken rules? Not for me, I'm above that; except of course when I use some of the strongest rules in the game, but, well, ... I'm just that good."

except I am not a bandwagon jumper I have used salamanders since 5th edition

everything I use save the 3 salamanders specific chapter traits (one of which is very situational since my warlord is a techmarine who doesn't want to get into CC) are generic and available for every single space marine chapter.

by that margin everybody using stratagems+ their chapter specific traits + chapter specific relics+ all the generic abilities actual are using stronger rules than me.

the humor is all the concern for all these things that GW does with rules that creates angst in the community when it really doesn't need to.

you don't have to use stratagems/deck build, you don't have to CP farm, you don't have to use fan rules (ITC) to actually play and have an enjoyable game.

And you don't have to buy all the books, hell I ran without the salamander special traits until another salamander player started playing at the FLGS and got me to start using them.

last 3 games I player-
.VS tyranids with nobody using stratagems or CP-nids won taking more objectives




.VS black Templar and all the stratagems he could throw at me-salamanders won




.VS DKOK very bloody fight with high casualties salamanders squeezed out a win.

 bullyboy wrote:
As a DA player, I'll take that 40 pages.....cheers.
Although the usual Anti-Marine crew are back at it again, it's already been pointed out that the majority of those pages are official datasheets for units that they have had access to for months. I'm pretty sure the only new datahseet will be Lazarus, unless they give DA access to Centurions (since they mentioned them in the fluff WD article), but I doubt it.
And guess what....shock horror, it will probably be the same for the SW too when they come around.

I am interested to see what GKs get though. They don't need a ton to make them competitive (ish), they just need the right tweak. They should get a reduction in CPs for some of their strats though, hope that happens.

At least we shall see this week and get a full reveal at the weekend from online videos.

As for Chaos not getting the same treatment, heresy is it's own reward

Dark Angels player states he likes his faction getting super special treatment - wow thats wierd... Yeah its a been a few months since they were last and extensively featured in WD....

Is a so called Campaign book the best place to cram in 40 pages of ever so slightly different and mostly reprinted rules? Its a Dark Angels Supplement with some other stuff thrown in as it was for Blood Angels and likely will be Space Wolves and Deathwatch.

Having an actual campaign story and related elements taking up the same space in a Campaign book might have been a more interesting.....than Marine supplement number.....

So, I'm playing nids and I've decided to use the new custom hive fleet tactics they premiered in BoB. I'm assuming like with Codex: Definitely The Same Support Everybody Else Gets, I get to choose a hive fleet to be an 'offshoot' of, and I get to get the unique stratagems, relics, wl traits etc unique to that hive fleet, right?

Oh, you say I only get to use 11 of those new stratagems, and none of the new psychic powers?

Oh, you say any given Tyranid Hive Fleet gets 12 strats, Adaptive Physiology, 1 Wl trait, 1 power, and 1 relic? But that makes it seem like the blood angels got about twice as much stuff, and I know that's not true.

 Mr Morden wrote:

Is a so called Campaign book the best place to cram in 40 pages of ever so slightly different and mostly reprinted rules?

Until GW get around to modernising their rules development & distribution approach then this is probably the Least Bad™ way to do it. Brings each faction in line with their recent online-only updates alongside their new content. Personally I'd rather have 20 updated datasheets to look at during a game than a couple of FAQ pages that say "replace all instances of X with Y on pages 50 through 65".

the_scotsman wrote:
But that makes it seem like the blood angels got about twice as much stuff, and I know that's not true.

You're right, it's not.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
For reference, BT got 34 distinct new Chapter-specifi rules in F&F whereas the Chaos Legions got 27 or 28, depending on Legion. The difference is entirely explainable by the six chapter-specific litanies the BT got. One of the new BT rules is just a rule telling you you're not allowed to use other rules, but is included for transparency's sake ("Chosen Champion").

BT had 6 Warlord traits. Each Legion got 6 Warlord Traits.

BT had 8 Stratagems. Each Legion got 7 or 8 Stratagems.

BT had 5 Relics. Each Legion got 6 Relics.

BT had 6 unique Maelstrom Objectives. Each Legion got 6 Maelstrom Objectives.

BT got the Knights of Sigismund, the Legions got no equivalent.

BT got 6 unique Chaplain Litanies, the Legions didn't.

BT thus got ~20% more unique rules.

This is, of course, not taking into account the power level of said rules. Knights of Sigismund is much better than some of the Stratagems of the Legions, but some of the Stratagems of the Legions are far better (especially the Night Lords' no fallback Stratagem, which is strictly better while being half the cost!), and none of the Legions wasted space on telling you you're not allowed to use things ("Chosen Champion"). Getting more rules without taking into account the relative power level of said rules is an exercise in futility, but it is not incorrect to state that the Black Templars got more rules than any given Chaos Legion from a strictly numerical point of view.

Personally, I'd say the World Eaters are the ones with the most room to complain; they're also limited by a "no Psykers!" rule but didn't get an equivalent of the six Litanies the Templars got to compensate for the relative lack of rules compared to their peers.

Also, just casually two of BT's rules are a bonus effect added on to their chapter tactic and Doctrines, plus all those rules now applying to vehicles. So two blanket army-wide rules you get all the time on all of your everything and now you get them on vehicles too.

(pssst: THAT'S WHY IT DOESNT FEEL LIKE THE LEGIONS GOT AS MUCH. BECAUSE ALL THEIR gak IS STUFF YOU GET ONLY 1-2 OF OR HAVE TO SPEND CP ON, AND BTS GOT A HUGE ARMY-WIDE BOOST, DESPITE BEING NEARLY IDENTICAL UNITS BECAUSE THEYRE BOTH MARINES.)

That was already the case in Codex: Space Marines. It's not a rule that's new to Faith & Fury. The comparison was on who got more stuff in Faith & Fury. No need to all-caps me.

I think what really needs to be hammered home here is that Black Templars are a single chapter, equivelant to a single legion, yet your own summary proves they got more than 7 whole legions combined.

Blood Angels got more, at least as much as, 6 whole Hive Fleets combined.

Everybody got more than Drukhari or Craftworlds.

And thats before we look at relative quality.

What? They absolutely didn't get more than 7 Legions combined. Each Legion got between 27 and 28 unique new rules, Black Templars got 34. Two times 27 is 54, which is well ahead of 34, and that's with 5 more Legions to go. Templars got ~20% more rules than any individual Legion, but combined it's not even a contest (and indeed shouldn't be, since it's 7 vs. 1).

It's not that long since people got bans for off topic posts about how fair/unfairly treated marines are. Please don't boot it all off again.

the_scotsman wrote:

And on another tier, you've got the two marine subfactions we've seen so far, who IGNORING ALL THE PRIMARIS REPRINTS, have gotten

-Redesigned, buffed chapter tactics.

This is fething huge. Marines, CSM, Admech, Daemons, GK, DA, BA, DW, Tsons, CWE , a bunch of codexes honestly were in the era when chapter tactics were...kinda low effort copy-pasted ass. If there was a -1 trait, it was always 100% the best one. A bunch would be total horsegak. Often, they would arbitrarily not work on vehicles (more on that later). Part of what people mean when they say "supplement tier" bonuses is that the army-wide rules that are supposed to reflect your chosen dudes got carefully massaged and buffed often massively for loyalist marines, and CSM who had...basically the exact same level of stuff, often even worse (See: Word Bearers, Night Lords) got diddly gak in that respect. Still the -1 to hit trait is always best. Still most of them are garbage. Same for CWE. Even though it would have been extremely easy to do alongside custom chapter traits.

-Chapter traits now work on vehicles

Bet you a shiny nickel that since CSM didn't get this, Tsons and GK will not get a chapter trait that works on their vehicles and they will not get their traits on vehicles. Everyone agreed with marine players that it was stupid that CTs didn't help vehicles. Now that marines have it, where is it on CSM, Tsons, DG, GK, GSC, Admech and I thiiink custodes? I'm not sure on them, but I think their land raiders don't get their trait.

This. This explains exactly all the hate Marines are getting, 3-4 constant passive effects that affect you WHOLE army are MUCH better then Stratagems, which can be very powerful yes, but you can not realistically use more then 2-3 a game as they tend to cost 2-3CP each, and you'll always need to spend a whole lot on clutch re-rolls and eventually on prepared positions which will leave you with 4/6 CP for strats, then when you're out that's it no more tricks, while the passive effects are still there kicking you in the teeth.
That's why the "Supplement tier" rules every non-SM army is getting doesn't really feel "Supplement tier" at all, since everything is pay-locked behind a pretty limited resource.

Nah, yall are right, it makes total sense for gw to be using this campaign book series to reprint the same set of primaris datasheets 4 times, and only specifically loyalist space marines should get a bonus for not taking allies, since they're the only faction that has seen annoying soulless soup armies supplanting fluffy lists. Also, theyre the only ones who need chapter traits on vehicles or whose chapter traits are outdated in design.

Now if youll excuse me, I have to pack up my tournament list, its ahriman+3 daemon princes of tzeentch and for my troops I took poxwalkers because tsons troops and tanks dont get chapter tactics. Id use plague marines but their chapter tactic got obsoleted with bolter discipline pretty much entirely.

People, we are drifting into the marine debate again... which has been explicitly banned from this thread by the mods under the threat of exterminatus.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/13/psychic-awakening-beyond-the-startide-nexusgw-homepage-post-2/


new text

zamerion wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/13/psychic-awakening-beyond-the-startide-nexusgw-homepage-post-2/

new text

That means this rumour is correct:

 Brometheus wrote:
yeahhhh boi.

"Beyond the Startide Nexus" short story posts Monday along with GK article apparently.

TS tues.

DA wed

Time will tell if this is correct but safe bet

Edit: just posted

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/13/ritual-of-the-damned-chapter-focus-the-grey-knightsgw-homepage-post-2/

Yeah, "rumor"...

Looks like someone was mucking about in the media permissions again.

zamerion wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/13/psychic-awakening-beyond-the-startide-nexusgw-homepage-post-2/


new text

Of all the PA narratives, this is far and away the best one. We get to see how Tau will interact with Death Guard and GSC, that's awesome!

I can't tell you how refreshing it is to have a narrative where every faction involved doesn't know everything about every other faction. The "narrative omnipotence" of space marines, eldar and chaos marines has gotten so old.

It sounds like the GSC are going to be emerging from the ranks of gue-vesa. While that's interesting, it's ultimately limited IMO because I know GW is never going to give any rules support for something that doesn't have models.

Proper GSC are going to always have to be ex-miners, because the official models for GSC are miners, with some limited bones thrown in for Brood Brothers as long as you're OK with your not-guardsmen being regular guardsmen with no regiment bonuses.

So, it'd be cool to see GSC rules that allow your cult to be from the various worlds of the imperium - industrial worlds, forge worlds, T'au axiliaries (Where you'd think GS cults and rogue psykers would be running absolutely rampant), hive worlds with gang weaponry, guard regiments...but I doubt we'll ever see anything like that. That's too much like a ruleset that embraces conversions and player creativity.

I know that they're technically SM but I think between Sisters' Sacred Rites and now GK's "Tides" we can reasonably believe that every faction moving forward will get some army-wide iteration of Doctrines.

I don't think anyone doubted it, but I think this cements it.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
I know that they're technically SM but I think between Sisters' Sacred Rites and now GK's "Tides" we can reasonably believe that every faction moving forward will get some army-wide iteration of Doctrines.

I don't think anyone doubted it, but I think this cements it.

I'd like to hope so. It's just bizarre that they've chosen not to implement it for CSM or any xenos faction so far.

Let's get ready for GK smite spam.

Much better concept than marine doctrines by the way.

So, it'd be cool to see GSC rules that allow your cult to be from the various worlds of the imperium - industrial worlds, forge worlds, T'au axiliaries (Where you'd think GS cults and rogue psykers would be running absolutely rampant), hive worlds with gang weaponry, guard regiments...but I doubt we'll ever see anything like that. That's too much like a ruleset that embraces conversions and player creativity.

I agree, when GW doesn't fulfill my wishlisting for rules and models it's their own lack of player engagement and creativity. For shame!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
I know that they're technically SM but I think between Sisters' Sacred Rites and now GK's "Tides" we can reasonably believe that every faction moving forward will get some army-wide iteration of Doctrines.

I don't think anyone doubted it, but I think this cements it.

I'd like to hope so. It's just bizarre that they've chosen not to implement it for CSM or any xenos faction so far.

Would you not call Tyranid's adaptations or whatever they were called a version of that? The ones that gave boosts to individual units? (Full disclosure I have spent no time reading up on them so I'm speaking from ignorance, feel free to correct me)

Regarding Chaos I genuinely think we'll see that in the future, Carl from the Independent Characters seems to think so and while he's pretty good about not revealing secrets he's not supposed to, he usually has a decent finger on the pulse.

Get ready to see Gk on the table again. Nice!

 xttz wrote:

zamerion wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/13/psychic-awakening-beyond-the-startide-nexusgw-homepage-post-2/

new text

That means this rumour is correct:

 Brometheus wrote:
yeahhhh boi.

"Beyond the Startide Nexus" short story posts Monday along with GK article apparently.

TS tues.

DA wed

Time will tell if this is correct but safe bet

Edit: just posted

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/13/ritual-of-the-damned-chapter-focus-the-grey-knightsgw-homepage-post-2/

Tentatively, this *might* be exactly what the doctor ordered for GK.

Tides of Everything in Cover is definitely what you want to start the game with...aaaalmost all the time, and an extra psychic discipline is 100% necessary. I also like that there are defensive and support options, instead of just the balls-to-the-wall table by turn 3 all offense nonsense that doctrines provide.

If anything, I think Everything in Cover and Wall of Smites might be a little OP compared to the lackluster +1d on infantry psi weaponry and RR 1s in melee. But hey, maybe if you construct your army around it psilencer spam with D3+1D or 2D psycannons would be strong.

RR 1s in melee seems like a stronk turn 2/3 cleanup option.

If the strats are good and they get a redesigned chapter tactic+CTs on vehicles, GKs might be back baby.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
I know that they're technically SM but I think between Sisters' Sacred Rites and now GK's "Tides" we can reasonably believe that every faction moving forward will get some army-wide iteration of Doctrines.

I don't think anyone doubted it, but I think this cements it.

Nah.

No Eldar, nor Nids got Doctrine-Equivalents.

And every time the (fake-)rumour industry get’s lost in predicting GW patterns, they just look stupid: Codex: Nurgle Daemonkin inc, because there was a Khorne one. Plastic Noise Marines inc, because there were Rubrics and Plaguemarines. 2 Primarchs a year, because there were 2 Primarchs in previous years. New HH box set X vs Y because a alte and Prospero were a thing, etc..

Pattern-based guesses is literally the “insider source” BoLS keeps referencing and it’s always wrong.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
I know that they're technically SM but I think between Sisters' Sacred Rites and now GK's "Tides" we can reasonably believe that every faction moving forward will get some army-wide iteration of Doctrines.

I don't think anyone doubted it, but I think this cements it.

Nah.

No Eldar, nor Nids got Doctrine-Equivalents.

And every time the (fake-)rumour industry get’s lost in predicting GW patterns, they just look stupid: Codex: Nurgle Daemonkin inc, because there was a Khorne one. Plastic Noise Marines inc, because there were Rubrics and Plaguemarines. 2 Primarchs a year, because there were 2 Primarchs in previous years. New HH box set X vs Y because a alte and Prospero were a thing, etc..

Pattern-based guesses is literally the “insider source” BoLS keeps referencing and it’s always wrong.

*shudders in BoLS*

Time will definitely tell!

Spoletta wrote:
Let's get ready for GK smite spam.

Much better concept than marine doctrines by the way.

OMG yes. Flat 2 mortal wounds for the 2 wound marines!

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Nah.

No Eldar, nor Nids got Doctrine-Equivalents.

They also didn't get fullup codices. Psychic Awakening is, despite people continually insisting, not updating our codices. It's adding extraneous stuff.

And every time the (fake-)rumour industry get’s lost in predicting GW patterns, they just look stupid: Codex: Nurgle Daemonkin inc, because there was a Khorne one. Plastic Noise Marines inc, because there were Rubrics and Plaguemarines. 2 Primarchs a year, because there were 2 Primarchs in previous years. New HH box set X vs Y because a alte and Prospero were a thing, etc..

Pattern-based guesses is literally the “insider source” BoLS keeps referencing and it’s always wrong.

And on the flipside, there were people insisting that Grey Knights wouldn't get a "Doctrines" style system like this.

You're right that the "rumor industry" tends to look stupid though.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

So, it'd be cool to see GSC rules that allow your cult to be from the various worlds of the imperium - industrial worlds, forge worlds, T'au axiliaries (Where you'd think GS cults and rogue psykers would be running absolutely rampant), hive worlds with gang weaponry, guard regiments...but I doubt we'll ever see anything like that. That's too much like a ruleset that embraces conversions and player creativity.

I agree, when GW doesn't fulfill my wishlisting for rules and models it's their own lack of player engagement and creativity. For shame!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
I know that they're technically SM but I think between Sisters' Sacred Rites and now GK's "Tides" we can reasonably believe that every faction moving forward will get some army-wide iteration of Doctrines.

I don't think anyone doubted it, but I think this cements it.

I'd like to hope so. It's just bizarre that they've chosen not to implement it for CSM or any xenos faction so far.

Would you not call Tyranid's adaptations or whatever they were called a version of that? The ones that gave boosts to individual units? (Full disclosure I have spent no time reading up on them so I'm speaking from ignorance, feel free to correct me)

Regarding Chaos I genuinely think we'll see that in the future, Carl from the Independent Characters seems to think so and while he's pretty good about not revealing secrets he's not supposed to, he usually has a decent finger on the pulse.

I'm just saddened by the fact that the game is so limited by the actual builds of the models that GW produces. GW's GSC models are a mining colony, therefore all GSC must be miners, despite their fluff placing them in every layer of imperial society.

The adaptive biologies are replacements for relics. They affect a single unit (or big monster) and you exchange your relic for it. It isn't a doctrine, any way you slice it.

Eldar I can understand not needing doctrines - they're so competitive already and people already take them as pure lists. It'd be cool to have a bonus to having a pure Drukhari army using only one of the sub-sub-factions, because they're so restrictive. Nobody takes non-soup drukhari lists.

For Chaos, it'd be cool if it were tied to having a full God list. It does seem to be happening at some point, if Tsons are getting a thing.

I just hope we don't end up with all xenos not getting one because they can't take allies in the first place, so we have to give armies who COULD take allies a bonus XD.

On top of all of that, the Grey Knights have a completely new set of litanies for their Chaplains. Used at the right time, these Litanies of Purity can swing a battle in your favour.

Huh. Shows how much attention I pay to GK. I didn't even know they had chaplains. But why does the store link they have go to the Primaris Chaplain?