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 Spreelock wrote:
Hey, has anyone got Grey Knights stuff summarized? They seem to have good potential from the rules so far.

All we have is what's on the Warhammer Community page at this point as the book won't get previewed by reviewers until Saturday.

 Spreelock wrote:
Hey, has anyone got Grey Knights stuff summarized? They seem to have good potential from the rules so far.

So far, we know:

Tides of the Warp: Grey Knights gain one of the following army-wide special rules if your army only has the GREY KNIGHTS keyword. These last all game, and can be changed via a psychic power (we don't know the WC cost). Players are assuming the change takes place immediately after the cast in the psychic phase but we have not seen the text of the rule.

1) Reroll 1s to wound with attacks made by Nemesis weapons in the fight phase

2) Add 1 to Strength and Damage of all Psi weapons fired by Infantry models

3) All units gain the benefit of cover. Units on or within terrain are -1 to hit with shooting attacks

4) The psychic power Smite deals 1 additional mortal wound

Grey knights will get 6 additional psychic powers. Swapping the Tides is one of them. Empyrean Domination is another one: WC7, gain 1 Command Point.

Grey Knights will also get additional stratagems. We know 2: Empyric Surge. WC1, use after a GREY KNIGHTS unit manifests a psychic power. All other GREY KNIGHTS units within 6" gain +1 to cast.

Another stratagem we know is 1CP, use when a unit deploys on the board after using the Teleporter datasheet ability (So, all units that can natively deep strike, not units that have to use the stratagem to deep strike). That unit can be placed over 3" away instead of over 9" away, but cannot charge.

GK also have new relics. Presumably 6. We know 1: Replaces Nemesis Warding Stave. When an enemy psyker manifests within 18" of the bearer, it perils on any roll of doubles.

And finally they have 6 new chaplain litanies. Unknown whether they get the base codex ones as well. We know 1: Recitation of Projection. All GREY KNIGHTS units within 6" of the chaplain add 6" to the maximum range of their bolt and psi weapons.

Do Grey Knights have Chaplains?

Nurglitch wrote:
Do Grey Knights have Chaplains?

Apparently, I was shocked too. I had no idea they were a thing either, let alone seen one.

Nurglitch wrote:
Do Grey Knights have Chaplains?

Yep, that iconic unit that everybody remembered existed before now, the grey knight chaplain.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:
Do Grey Knights have Chaplains?

Apparently, I was shocked too. I had no idea they were a thing either, let alone seen one.

I'm actually more shocked they have Librarians. When you have a faction 100% comprised of psykers it seems a bit odd to still have a unit whose only notable feature is 'psyker'.

EDIT:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/15/ritual-of-the-damned-chapter-focus-dark-angelsgw-homepage-post-2/

Librarians have the specific role of keeping track of what's going on for the after-action report, and lore-keeping, as well as battlefield psychic duties. Also, they're part of the Chapter High Command (including Company Captains, Reclusium, Apothecarium, and Forge Masters).

 xttz wrote:

I'm actually more shocked they have Librarians. When you have a faction 100% comprised of psykers it seems a bit odd to still have a unit whose only notable feature is 'psyker'.

Yeah, I always thought that was silly.

 Crimson wrote:

 xttz wrote:

I'm actually more shocked they have Librarians. When you have a faction 100% comprised of psykers it seems a bit odd to still have a unit whose only notable feature is 'psyker'.

Yeah, I always thought that was silly.

It's double silly because they're identical to regular SM librarians rules-wise except that their smites are worse and they have access to 6 powers instead of 54.

...God, every time I type out that one faction has access to 54 psychic powers and it's not any of the like 4 factions that are the dedicated psychic ones...

People really need to get over the fact that Marine chapters are treated as unique armies.

So dark angels successor chapters with the range buff can have 33" bolters and 15" flamers....

I'm suddenly feeling better about having painted up a Leviathan in Deathwing colours at the end of last year:

Devastator doctrine increases the storm cannons to AP-3 30" range

DA can now use Duty Eternal on dreads

The rumours yesterday said a new strat gives +1T on DEATHWING units. Dreads can get that keyword via an existing stratagem.

 Sentineil wrote:
People really need to get over the fact that Marine chapters are treated as unique armies.

But often at the expense of other armies who don't have oversized shoulders.

The dark angel's update seems more or less as Valarak said it would be, and I'm trying to temper my initial reaction. Additional range is pretty weird, not necessarily unwelcome, Given that plasma has a shorter range than most other heavy weapons. The issue is that it seems like GW is doubling down on the DA castle, which has not been successful in this entire edition, and a little extra range is not going to fix that. On the bright side though, at least we get to start in our favored doctrine, which is more than the BA got.

I'll withhold judgment on the Deathwing raven wing thing until we get more info (probably this Friday or Saturday), because it seems like DA might have a fix for what's wrong with termies, getting them into the fight, but that will depend on warlord traits and relics.

There's been a list of rumours, that so far have been accurate (also from valrak). The deathwing and ravenwing had pretty good load-out of traits and stratagems, most notably relic banners. I've been a little disappointed about super-doctrine being a range buff, but that's welcome since Dark Angels are more suited for gunline army. As a long-term Dark Angels player, i've been so hyped about this release, that I even started considering Grey Knights army for my next project.

I think others here summed this up pretty well, the new rules are interesting and fun without being broken auto-takes.

The range buff is great in the current meta since DA will outrange their counterparts in marine "mirror" matches.

It's also great for Ravenwing since it allows them to remain out of range of opponents while harassing (or in the case of Talonmasters, dumping insane amounts of dakka - one of the rumored relics gives a Talonmaster BS 2+ and +6 extra range).

Overall, it looks like DA will be able to play a very strong deny game against other marine armies, and will be able to play a stronger board control game than previously.

abyrn wrote:
The range buff is great in the current meta since DA will outrange their counterparts in marine "mirror" matches.

It's also great for Ravenwing since it allows them to remain out of range of opponents while harassing (or in the case of Talonmasters, dumping insane amounts of dakka - one of the rumored relics gives a Talonmaster BS 2+ and +6 extra range).

Overall, it looks like DA will be able to play a very strong deny game against other marine armies, and will be able to play a stronger board control game than previously.

Which kind of suites their lore. Stoic warriors being extremely tactical and outplaying opponents while the DW and RW act as the mobile hammer and anvil.

I like it!

 Latro_ wrote:
So dark angels successor chapters with the range buff can have 33" bolters and 15" flamers....

Flamers are 8" range, 8+3+3... Regardless, Blood Angels successors did not get access to the successor trait system in the Space Marine Codex. Dark Angels successors will undoubtedly be the same--so this will not be possible.

Why is their super doctrine called Relentless Hunt? What does shooting people from farther away have to do with being relentless or hunting? Wouldn't it have made more sense to call it Relentless Shooters or Shooty Hunt?

From the Great Beasts of Caliban to their nefarious Fallen brothers, the Dark Angels have always been shooty in shooting their quarry.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

abyrn wrote:
The range buff is great in the current meta since DA will outrange their counterparts in marine "mirror" matches.

It's also great for Ravenwing since it allows them to remain out of range of opponents while harassing (or in the case of Talonmasters, dumping insane amounts of dakka - one of the rumored relics gives a Talonmaster BS 2+ and +6 extra range).

Overall, it looks like DA will be able to play a very strong deny game against other marine armies, and will be able to play a stronger board control game than previously.

Which kind of suites their lore. Stoic warriors being extremely tactical and outplaying opponents while the DW and RW act as the mobile hammer and anvil.

I like it!

Stoic warriors, being tactical by...standing still, outplaying opponents by...getting more rules than them for not doing anything.

This is my favorite space marine player take. I hope that there is someone out there who won a game without moving a single model after the marine supplements came out and thought

"heh. Get outplayed."

Well, traditionally when hunting, being further away from your prey makes it easier to shoot them unawares.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

abyrn wrote:
The range buff is great in the current meta since DA will outrange their counterparts in marine "mirror" matches.

It's also great for Ravenwing since it allows them to remain out of range of opponents while harassing (or in the case of Talonmasters, dumping insane amounts of dakka - one of the rumored relics gives a Talonmaster BS 2+ and +6 extra range).

Overall, it looks like DA will be able to play a very strong deny game against other marine armies, and will be able to play a stronger board control game than previously.

Which kind of suites their lore. Stoic warriors being extremely tactical and outplaying opponents while the DW and RW act as the mobile hammer and anvil.

I like it!

Stoic warriors, being tactical by...standing still, outplaying opponents by...getting more rules than them for not doing anything.

This is my favorite space marine player take. I hope that there is someone out there who won a game without moving a single model after the marine supplements came out and thought

"heh. Get outplayed."

Nicely done Sir, nicely done

the_scotsman wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

abyrn wrote:
The range buff is great in the current meta since DA will outrange their counterparts in marine "mirror" matches.

It's also great for Ravenwing since it allows them to remain out of range of opponents while harassing (or in the case of Talonmasters, dumping insane amounts of dakka - one of the rumored relics gives a Talonmaster BS 2+ and +6 extra range).

Overall, it looks like DA will be able to play a very strong deny game against other marine armies, and will be able to play a stronger board control game than previously.

Which kind of suites their lore. Stoic warriors being extremely tactical and outplaying opponents while the DW and RW act as the mobile hammer and anvil.

I like it!

Stoic warriors, being tactical by...standing still, outplaying opponents by...getting more rules than them for not doing anything.

This is my favorite space marine player take. I hope that there is someone out there who won a game without moving a single model after the marine supplements came out and thought

"heh. Get outplayed."

Yes. A true tactical genius (hurr) chooses his battles wisely so he has won before the first shot is fired.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

abyrn wrote:
The range buff is great in the current meta since DA will outrange their counterparts in marine "mirror" matches.

It's also great for Ravenwing since it allows them to remain out of range of opponents while harassing (or in the case of Talonmasters, dumping insane amounts of dakka - one of the rumored relics gives a Talonmaster BS 2+ and +6 extra range).

Overall, it looks like DA will be able to play a very strong deny game against other marine armies, and will be able to play a stronger board control game than previously.

Which kind of suites their lore. Stoic warriors being extremely tactical and outplaying opponents while the DW and RW act as the mobile hammer and anvil.

I like it!

Stoic warriors, being tactical by...standing still, outplaying opponents by...getting more rules than them for not doing anything.

This is my favorite space marine player take. I hope that there is someone out there who won a game without moving a single model after the marine supplements came out and thought

"heh. Get outplayed."

Need some pepper with all that salt hombre? God forbid I try to tie the lore to my rules.

 Mr Morden wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

abyrn wrote:
The range buff is great in the current meta since DA will outrange their counterparts in marine "mirror" matches.

It's also great for Ravenwing since it allows them to remain out of range of opponents while harassing (or in the case of Talonmasters, dumping insane amounts of dakka - one of the rumored relics gives a Talonmaster BS 2+ and +6 extra range).

Overall, it looks like DA will be able to play a very strong deny game against other marine armies, and will be able to play a stronger board control game than previously.

Which kind of suites their lore. Stoic warriors being extremely tactical and outplaying opponents while the DW and RW act as the mobile hammer and anvil.

I like it!

Stoic warriors, being tactical by...standing still, outplaying opponents by...getting more rules than them for not doing anything.

This is my favorite space marine player take. I hope that there is someone out there who won a game without moving a single model after the marine supplements came out and thought

"heh. Get outplayed."

Nicely done Sir, nicely done

Yeah I give that quote

the_scotsman wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

abyrn wrote:
The range buff is great in the current meta since DA will outrange their counterparts in marine "mirror" matches.

It's also great for Ravenwing since it allows them to remain out of range of opponents while harassing (or in the case of Talonmasters, dumping insane amounts of dakka - one of the rumored relics gives a Talonmaster BS 2+ and +6 extra range).

Overall, it looks like DA will be able to play a very strong deny game against other marine armies, and will be able to play a stronger board control game than previously.

Which kind of suites their lore. Stoic warriors being extremely tactical and outplaying opponents while the DW and RW act as the mobile hammer and anvil.

I like it!

Stoic warriors, being tactical by...standing still, outplaying opponents by...getting more rules than them for not doing anything.

This is my favorite space marine player take. I hope that there is someone out there who won a game without moving a single model after the marine supplements came out and thought

"heh. Get outplayed."

Well let's break this down:
-Proper deployment is a HUGE tactical element
-He never said nor implied nothing would move
-He referenced RW and DW serving different roles to support the castle

So what were you responding to? It wasn't his post, you must have misquoted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

deTox91 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Seems like TSons players are more unhappy now than if they got nothing at all...?

Imho yes, mind you that’s just me, getting nothing means that at some point in the future you’ll get something and it might be good, getting something mediocre (might not be as bad, opinion based on what was seen) means that you indeed got something and given the very slow release cycle also means you won’t see anything else for 1+ years.
Add to that that this is the “Psychic Awakening” and as an one trick pony psychic phase army you’d think that’s your time to shine, and the fact that sadly everything ends up being benchmarked against space marines (since the amazing cool rules they keep on getting) and there you go you have a whole lot of underwhelmed TS players

That makes sense. Though we haven't seen everything yet--there could still be some juicy bits in there!

Did this get posted up?

the_scotsman wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

abyrn wrote:
The range buff is great in the current meta since DA will outrange their counterparts in marine "mirror" matches.

It's also great for Ravenwing since it allows them to remain out of range of opponents while harassing (or in the case of Talonmasters, dumping insane amounts of dakka - one of the rumored relics gives a Talonmaster BS 2+ and +6 extra range).

Overall, it looks like DA will be able to play a very strong deny game against other marine armies, and will be able to play a stronger board control game than previously.

Which kind of suites their lore. Stoic warriors being extremely tactical and outplaying opponents while the DW and RW act as the mobile hammer and anvil.

I like it!

Stoic warriors, being tactical by...standing still, outplaying opponents by...getting more rules than them for not doing anything.

This is my favorite space marine player take. I hope that there is someone out there who won a game without moving a single model after the marine supplements came out and thought

"heh. Get outplayed."

I'd say it's more like outboxing, using a reach advantage in combination with speedier elements to set the pace and limit your opponent's options. By having a castle with better than space marine normal range, that can support their short-range units from relative safety. If the leaks are correct we could be looking at a DA castle with a 4+ invul and a 5+ FnP, which could be a tough nut to crack. The castle will be as mobile as any marine formation thanks to Azrael and the fact that most of the DA shooting will be rapid-fire.This is while wielding weapons specifically designed to kill other marines. That's what I imagine they are going for, whether or not they pull it off depends on how good the buffs to Deathwing and Ravenwing are.

 Grimgold wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

abyrn wrote:
The range buff is great in the current meta since DA will outrange their counterparts in marine "mirror" matches.

It's also great for Ravenwing since it allows them to remain out of range of opponents while harassing (or in the case of Talonmasters, dumping insane amounts of dakka - one of the rumored relics gives a Talonmaster BS 2+ and +6 extra range).

Overall, it looks like DA will be able to play a very strong deny game against other marine armies, and will be able to play a stronger board control game than previously.

Which kind of suites their lore. Stoic warriors being extremely tactical and outplaying opponents while the DW and RW act as the mobile hammer and anvil.

I like it!

Stoic warriors, being tactical by...standing still, outplaying opponents by...getting more rules than them for not doing anything.

This is my favorite space marine player take. I hope that there is someone out there who won a game without moving a single model after the marine supplements came out and thought

"heh. Get outplayed."

I'd say it's more like outboxing, using a reach advantage in combination with speedier elements to set the pace and limit your opponent's options. By having a castle with better than space marine normal range, that can support their short-range units from relative safety. If the leaks are correct we could be looking at a DA castle with a 4+ invul and a 5+ FnP, which could be a tough nut to crack. The castle will be as mobile as any marine formation thanks to Azrael and the fact that most of the DA shooting will be rapid-fire.This is while wielding weapons specifically designed to kill other marines. That's what I imagine they are going for, whether or not they pull it off depends on how good the buffs to Deathwing and Ravenwing are.

All the new rules are leaked. We know what DW and Ravenwing are getting, and honestly, a shiny nickel says competitive DA lists are going to look incredibly similar to competitive RG lists. You might have one unit of Ravenwing using the free turn 1 charge warlord trait as a disruption unit, but the rest of the army is gonna be a huge blob of marines that will move if and only if they can't win by sitting on the objectives in their DZ and blowing the opponent off the table.

Space Marines have been fundamentally changed from a mostly mechanized army to a gunline, and the army of players that used to gak on Tau for only playing in a single phase of the game are now applauding rules that allow them to never ever ever have to leave their deployment zone, and get extra rules for making the "tactical" decision of standing still.

The people who thought a fire warrior was unfun bs for standing in the DZ plunking away with a 30" range S5 gun now have 36" range S4 Ap-1 guns with double the shots.

DW and Ravenwing seem like support elements to a really fun, cool army. Too bad instead of that they're stapled on to the most boring marines in the entire game. I am 1000% offering every DA player I play against a free 5CP if he agrees to bring no greenwing at all.