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 Kanluwen wrote:

Did this get posted up?

This was for me the juiciest part of the leaks, so it's great to get confirmation on it!

I love the fact that you can spot the people in this thread that don't actually own or play Grey Knights in 8th edition with the Chaplain shock.

So is the next book Tau-DG then?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I love the fact that you can spot the people in this thread that don't actually own or play Grey Knights in 8th edition with the Chaplain shock.

now now, having a strong opinion and pushing it forward on everyone despite being largely ignorant of the topic is pretty much a modern tradtion these days

 Ratius wrote:
So is the next book Tau-DG then?

Tau, DG, and GSC

GSC in there too? Hmmm strangely intriguing.

Yup, as has already been pointed out, the three armies are very thematically appropriate to the concept of pursuing a "Greater Good"

Either someone in GW is/was actually clever, or it somehow happened as a happy accident!

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I love the fact that you can spot the people in this thread that don't actually own or play Grey Knights in 8th edition with the Chaplain shock.

now now, having a strong opinion and pushing it forward on everyone despite being largely ignorant of the topic is pretty much a modern tradtion these days

I wonder where these people were over two years ago when Grey Knights actually got Chaplains.

 Ratius wrote:
GSC in there too? Hmmm strangely intriguing.

Yes, and each Cult Creed will be getting additional warlord traits, relics, and stratagems! For example, the Cult of the
Four-Armed Emperor will have no less than 4 warlord traits to choose from - one for each arm! If you dedicate your detachment to the Upper Right Arm you can give your warlord a warlord trait that lets you redeploy up to D3 blips anywhere in your deployment zone!

I'm excited for new DG stuff, even if it ends up being only a few more relics and stratagems. I was going to sell my DG a few weeks ago but the LGS started an Escalation league around that time so I decided to hang onto them.

Wish we could get Thousand Sons rules leaked too!

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I love the fact that you can spot the people in this thread that don't actually own or play Grey Knights in 8th edition with the Chaplain shock.

now now, having a strong opinion and pushing it forward on everyone despite being largely ignorant of the topic is pretty much a modern tradtion these days

Cannot. Exalt. Enough. Times.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ikeulhu wrote:
Yup, as has already been pointed out, the three armies are very thematically appropriate to the concept of pursuing a "Greater Good"

Either someone in GW is/was actually clever, or it somehow happened as a happy accident!

People like to rag on GW writing (not unjustified at times), but regardless they do have good writers and good fluff going on there. People simply wouldn't care about Warhammer fluff as much as they do if it wasn't enjoyable. And at its core that is all good writing is.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
People like to rag on GW writing (not unjustified at times), but regardless they do have good writers and good fluff going on there. People simply wouldn't care about Warhammer fluff as much as they do if it wasn't enjoyable. And at its core that is all good writing is.

Yeah, I am mostly just poking fun, as in all honesty the fluff is what hooked and kept me interested in the setting since the days of 1st edition Space Hulk. I never played an actual game of 40k until 8th edition, and it was the video games and Black Library that really lead to my love of the setting.

Too bad extra relics and warlord traits aren’t very useful since only space marines are able to just spend CP on a 1:1 basis to take more of each. I fail to see how either are considered “more content” when you’re restricted to 1 warlord trait and generally 2 relics. If these aren’t atleast the same as existing TS options then they’re basically doa.

 Kirasu wrote:
Too bad extra relics and warlord traits aren’t very useful since only space marines are able to just spend CP on a 1:1 basis to take more of each. I fail to see how either are considered “more content” when you’re restricted to 1 warlord trait and generally 2 relics. If these aren’t atleast the same as existing TS options then they’re basically doa.

More options are a power upgrade, just horizontally rather than vertically. Easier to customize to a specific playstyle, build or gimmick. It isn't as powerful in an absolute sense, but its a healthier approach to game design. (in a way that trading CP for more abilities isn't). Though at this point its reached the point of bloat, rather than a healthy selection of options.

As is often the case, it comes back to GW needing to cap CP generation and setting standards for what can be done with them. 'A single reroll' was the standard for a single CP in the core rules, and that means jack squat now, because there are hundreds of ways of getting rerolls just by taking units you'd take anyway.

 Kirasu wrote:
Too bad extra relics and warlord traits aren’t very useful since only space marines are able to just spend CP on a 1:1 basis to take more of each. I fail to see how either are considered “more content” when you’re restricted to 1 warlord trait and generally 2 relics. If these aren’t atleast the same as existing TS options then they’re basically doa.

Sisters as well.

tneva82 wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Too bad extra relics and warlord traits aren’t very useful since only space marines are able to just spend CP on a 1:1 basis to take more of each. I fail to see how either are considered “more content” when you’re restricted to 1 warlord trait and generally 2 relics. If these aren’t atleast the same as existing TS options then they’re basically doa.

Sisters as well.

only if you define "DOA" as "not immediatly breaking the meta and gaining a 70% win rating"

tneva82 wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Too bad extra relics and warlord traits aren’t very useful since only space marines are able to just spend CP on a 1:1 basis to take more of each. I fail to see how either are considered “more content” when you’re restricted to 1 warlord trait and generally 2 relics. If these aren’t atleast the same as existing TS options then they’re basically doa.

Sisters as well.

Kind of makes you want to question the whole "just wait for the new codex then you'll get rules to bring your faction up to marines level " line doesn't it?

Hope we will get far more horizontal upgrades and far less vertical must have upgrades and re-rolls everything type stuff in the long run.

 Argive wrote:
Hope we will get far more horizontal upgrades and far less vertical must have upgrades and re-rolls everything type stuff in the long run.

Yeah I'd much rather gw bring marines down a peg than bring everyone else up to their level. 8th is killy enough already.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Too bad extra relics and warlord traits aren’t very useful since only space marines are able to just spend CP on a 1:1 basis to take more of each. I fail to see how either are considered “more content” when you’re restricted to 1 warlord trait and generally 2 relics. If these aren’t atleast the same as existing TS options then they’re basically doa.

Sisters as well.

Kind of makes you want to question the whole "just wait for the new codex then you'll get rules to bring your faction up to marines level " line doesn't it?

How's so? Flrst codex after marines have both multiple relic, extra warlord trait and superior melta all introduced in marine codex. Makes sense same come to other 2.0 codexes

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Kind of makes you want to question the whole "just wait for the new codex then you'll get rules to bring your faction up to marines level " line doesn't it?

Which was always non-sense.

A) It’s improbable all factions would get a new Codex, since it seems unlikely even a handful of them would get a miniature-release comparable to the current wave of Marines (and Sisters). Maybe 1 or 2 more factions might get that treatment in 2020.

B) It’s unlikely the strength of Marines was intentional, even IF all factions were to get a new book. Past balance-screw-ups weren’t.

C) IF Marine-strength was intentional and GW wanted to raise all armies to “Marine” strength, it seems silly to discount PA as the way to do it. PA clearly brought things like Blood Angels and Dark Angels in line, so the idea that “PA Tyranids aren’t (yet) at Marine levels, because it’s not their (speculatively assumed) 2.0 Codex” don’t really make sense. Why would GW, if the intended plan was to raise the game strength of all armies, not use the PA books for that purpose, given how these books explicitly give rules to everyone in a short period?

D) If all armies were to get a new Codex and all armies were upped to Marine-Levels of output and reliability, the game would be dead, as the coin flip of who starts would decide far too many games (unless TOs go even more out of their way to comp. the game with even more ludicrous terrain and LoS houserules, and even those don’t faze Imperial Fists, etc....

If people wanna ride GW’s latest rules-writing screw-up to crush people at the FLGS or the LVO, cool. That’s basically been the definition of “playing competitively” for decades. But all the apologist conspiracy theories about how the Marine-game-balance-desaster was somehow “intentional” just seems odd.

tneva82 wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Too bad extra relics and warlord traits aren’t very useful since only space marines are able to just spend CP on a 1:1 basis to take more of each. I fail to see how either are considered “more content” when you’re restricted to 1 warlord trait and generally 2 relics. If these aren’t atleast the same as existing TS options then they’re basically doa.

Sisters as well.

Kind of makes you want to question the whole "just wait for the new codex then you'll get rules to bring your faction up to marines level " line doesn't it?

How's so? Flrst codex after marines have both multiple relic, extra warlord trait and superior melta all introduced in marine codex. Makes sense same come to other 2.0 codexes

The Sisters got some good stuff but not marines level broken. Which is good. We don't need an arms race. Unless you like two turn games.

BrianDavion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Too bad extra relics and warlord traits aren’t very useful since only space marines are able to just spend CP on a 1:1 basis to take more of each. I fail to see how either are considered “more content” when you’re restricted to 1 warlord trait and generally 2 relics. If these aren’t atleast the same as existing TS options then they’re basically doa.

Sisters as well.

only if you define "DOA" as "not immediatly breaking the meta and gaining a 70% win rating"

Or, the actual definition he's using of something your would never use because it requires to trade away something that's already better.

A hundred new warlord traits would change nothing unless they are better than the existing ones when you are limited to, because only they best matters.

And when you mix the fact TS apperantly only get replacement, with no add ons, and to top it off they are limited to highly spesific bundles-we are not going to see TS move away from "supcom only", as efficiently the army gained nothing.

 BoomWolf wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Too bad extra relics and warlord traits aren’t very useful since only space marines are able to just spend CP on a 1:1 basis to take more of each. I fail to see how either are considered “more content” when you’re restricted to 1 warlord trait and generally 2 relics. If these aren’t atleast the same as existing TS options then they’re basically doa.

Sisters as well.

only if you define "DOA" as "not immediatly breaking the meta and gaining a 70% win rating"

Or, the actual definition he's using of something your would never use because it requires to trade away something that's already better.

A hundred new warlord traits would change nothing unless they are better than the existing ones when you are limited to, because only they best matters.

And when you mix the fact TS apperantly only get replacement, with no add ons, and to top it off they are limited to highly spesific bundles-we are not going to see TS move away from "supcom only", as efficiently the army gained nothing.

I was refering to sisters, a codex I have and am happy with, I'm withholding judgement on 1k sons until we get the full picture. (seriously, you're proably right that 1k sons isn't going to be all that amazing but for all we know there's some brokenly OP stuff in there that'll make iron hands look like 8th edition grey knights) but sisters I feel are in a pretty good place. they've got some weaknesses but the army over all seems to synergize pretty well

tneva82 wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Too bad extra relics and warlord traits aren’t very useful since only space marines are able to just spend CP on a 1:1 basis to take more of each. I fail to see how either are considered “more content” when you’re restricted to 1 warlord trait and generally 2 relics. If these aren’t atleast the same as existing TS options then they’re basically doa.

Sisters as well.

BA didn't get the 1:1 relic strat either. As we are playing with two books right now and the first was written without the knowledge that a second will come out later, I guess GW just don't want to change any existing strats. I would bet that it will be the same for DA, GK and SW later on.

it'd be easy eneugh to make the change in errata if they so choose. but from GW's POV it'd be a lot of work for minimal gain. It's the type of thing local play groups though can and should house rule.

All the PA until now gave only horizontal buffs (except for marines), i don't know why people are expecting something different this time.

rhavien wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Too bad extra relics and warlord traits aren’t very useful since only space marines are able to just spend CP on a 1:1 basis to take more of each. I fail to see how either are considered “more content” when you’re restricted to 1 warlord trait and generally 2 relics. If these aren’t atleast the same as existing TS options then they’re basically doa.

Sisters as well.

BA didn't get the 1:1 relic strat either. As we are playing with two books right now and the first was written without the knowledge that a second will come out later, I guess GW just don't want to change any existing strats. I would bet that it will be the same for DA, GK and SW later on.

PA isn't codex though. When BA codex 2.0 comes it's there. Of course that could be a while but then again might not. It's marines.

BrianDavion wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Too bad extra relics and warlord traits aren’t very useful since only space marines are able to just spend CP on a 1:1 basis to take more of each. I fail to see how either are considered “more content” when you’re restricted to 1 warlord trait and generally 2 relics. If these aren’t atleast the same as existing TS options then they’re basically doa.

Sisters as well.

only if you define "DOA" as "not immediatly breaking the meta and gaining a 70% win rating"

Or, the actual definition he's using of something your would never use because it requires to trade away something that's already better.

A hundred new warlord traits would change nothing unless they are better than the existing ones when you are limited to, because only they best matters.

And when you mix the fact TS apperantly only get replacement, with no add ons, and to top it off they are limited to highly spesific bundles-we are not going to see TS move away from "supcom only", as efficiently the army gained nothing.

I was refering to sisters, a codex I have and am happy with, I'm withholding judgement on 1k sons until we get the full picture. (seriously, you're proably right that 1k sons isn't going to be all that amazing but for all we know there's some brokenly OP stuff in there that'll make iron hands look like 8th edition grey knights) but sisters I feel are in a pretty good place. they've got some weaknesses but the army over all seems to synergize pretty well

Given that nobody but Marines is getting any passive army wide buff and "spend 2 CP to give this forever aura to this character" type of things, it's literally impossible that TS will get anything broken, you could print the strongest stratagem in the history of WH40k and still a one off trick would never compare to 5/6 passive game long effects sadly.
Damn buying this DA/GK codex will really feel bad for TS players, which is the thing that probably annoys me the most, I don't care that they are getting all the cool rules, but just print them in their own DA supplement instead of forcing NPC factions to buy marine staff for subpar rules that you'll get to see side by side in the same book