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deTox91 wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:

Ahriman21 wrote:
I have seen no marine player using Stalker Bolt Rifles.

Oh boi c'mon down to where I play and lose all your sorcerers with a QUICKNESS lol.

Why ya'll comparing stalker dmg to Rubricae? They only get shot at when our sorcs die

I don't think Intercessors with stalker bolt rifles can shot characters? It's just the free bolter replacement 36" Heavy 1 S4 -2 D2, unless there's some RG shenanigan that turns basic troops into snipers that I don't remember

Its a generic strat

Target Sighted (3 CP): At the start of the shooting phase, pick a squad of INTERCESSORS. Until the end of the phase, that squad's stalker bolt rifles gain the ability to snipe Characters and cause mortal wounds on a wound roll of 6+

deTox91 wrote:
Well somebody at GW is really having fun #TSDontDeserveNiceThings

They get what all npcs get, the loyalist marines crumbs.

well it stacks so that's pretty good. My 20man squad will have fun with that.

I just want DG to have access to some of the new CSM units.

Disco lords and venom crawlers. The giant ticks scream nurgle (and no, i don't want to have to take a detachment of non-DG) even if pure DG is considered crap.

It's actually a really good strat and I'm guessing several people are going to try out max sized squads of rubricae or even SOT now (big blobs of SOT are also a decent target for that healing spell)

PiñaColada wrote:
To be fair, now they're showing an "Infernal Fusillade" strat which is real good. 1CP shoot twice with RF weapons using a rubric or SOT unit if they stood still

That's fairly spicy combined with the telemeport strat they also previewed.

Nothing screams "8th edition 40k" like winning the roll for first turn so you get to spend 2cp to teleport your rubrics up, shoot as if you were 1" away, and then shoot again.

Yep, that right there is a power boost for sure. A really fething obnoxious power boost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PiñaColada wrote:
It's actually a really good strat and I'm guessing several people are going to try out max sized squads of rubricae or even SOT now (big blobs of SOT are also a decent target for that healing spell)

Tougher to get SoTs that didn't move tho. Rubrics have that baked in with the dedeploy strat if you go first. Shoot twice for 1cp isn't nearly as bonkers if it's turn 3 on a squad of SoTs.

It's real powerful but it's also boosting rubricae and SOT so if it means we start seeing more thousand sons armies and fewer of their characters just sprinkled into supreme command detachments then I'm all for it

Edit: Yeah SOT are more difficult to use the strat with on their first turn obviously but if you plonk them down in cover on an objective then they might actually feel pretty useful (since their CC is pretty gak anyways, they might as well just stand still and fire)

PiñaColada wrote:
It's real powerful but it's also boosting rubricae and SOT so if it means we start seeing more thousand sons armies and fewer of their characters just sprinkled into supreme command detachments then I'm all for it

Edit: Yeah SOT are more difficult to use the strat with on their first turn obviously but if you plonk them down in cover on an objective then they might actually feel pretty useful (since their CC is pretty gak anyways, they might as well just stand still and fire)

Yeah, any boost that only benefits rubrics is nice in my book. I just dislike how my Thousand Sons army is 100% the army with the biggest gulf between its "won first turn" and "lost first turn" performance - and this is yet another strat combo that works a billion times better if you go first than not.

mostly the problem is with units highly dependent on psychic buffs. A strat that lets you start the game with a power up if you go second would be amazing for the health of tsons armies.

the_scotsman wrote:

That's fairly spicy combined with the telemeport strat they also previewed.

Nothing screams "8th edition 40k" like winning the roll for first turn so you get to spend 2cp to teleport your rubrics up, shoot as if you were 1" away, and then shoot again.

Yep, that right there is a power boost for sure. A really fething obnoxious power boost.

Agreed.

I dislike that certain factions get abilities that simply break the core rules of the game. The most obnoxious recently for me are; "deploy closer than 9 brooo" and "deploy on turn 1 man, tacticz".

I also dislike it when certain factions have literally no answer to these obnoxious combos. Makes for a pretty boring game when I have to sit and watch my opponent do cool things and I just remove models. It'd be nice if GW added a bit of back and forth to every faction. There needs to be some consolidation of the stratagems and allowance for counter-play IMO.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

That's fairly spicy combined with the telemeport strat they also previewed.

Nothing screams "8th edition 40k" like winning the roll for first turn so you get to spend 2cp to teleport your rubrics up, shoot as if you were 1" away, and then shoot again.

Yep, that right there is a power boost for sure. A really fething obnoxious power boost.

Agreed.

I dislike that certain factions get abilities that simply break the core rules of the game. The most obnoxious recently for me are; "deploy closer than 9 brooo" and "deploy on turn 1 man, tacticz".

I also dislike it when certain factions have literally no answer to these obnoxious combos. Makes for a pretty boring game when I have to sit and watch my opponent do cool things and I just remove models. It'd be nice if GW added a bit of back and forth to every faction. There needs to be some consolidation of the stratagems and allowance for counter-play IMO.

playing against marins with more unit deployed outside their deployment than in it feels awesome , what do you mean? Even better if the marine player has the audacity to complain that my elves have invulnerable saves and -1 to hit

In my defense I wasn't declaring strong feelings so much as confessing to my colossal ignorance. So Grey Knights have Chaplains in 8th? What's the fluff on that? Does anyone take them?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

That's fairly spicy combined with the telemeport strat they also previewed.

Nothing screams "8th edition 40k" like winning the roll for first turn so you get to spend 2cp to teleport your rubrics up, shoot as if you were 1" away, and then shoot again.

Yep, that right there is a power boost for sure. A really fething obnoxious power boost.

Agreed.

I dislike that certain factions get abilities that simply break the core rules of the game. The most obnoxious recently for me are; "deploy closer than 9 brooo" and "deploy on turn 1 man, tacticz".

I also dislike it when certain factions have literally no answer to these obnoxious combos. Makes for a pretty boring game when I have to sit and watch my opponent do cool things and I just remove models. It'd be nice if GW added a bit of back and forth to every faction. There needs to be some consolidation of the stratagems and allowance for counter-play IMO.

I mean, tbf, none of those break core rules of the game. There's nothing in the core rules that says Over 9", it's just what GW had been (mostly) limiting factions to. And there have been situations that worked out like that previously but in your favor - like when they culled all turn 1 deep strike from the game EXCEPT for da jump (and I think there were like 2 more powers that worked like that or something)

But there are way too many things like that at this point. I feel like I need to employ some kind of massive turn 1 casualty reducing rule, just to force some kind of maneuver or something before we start removing models by the bucket load.

Fog of War: All shooting attacks declared in the first battle round suffer -2 to hit. All charge rolls made during the first turn subtract -2 from the result.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
I wonder if Malicious Volleys will be their mono-faction bonus?

Likely, it's to allow for different named rules with similar effects to exist for balance purposes.

the_scotsman wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

That's fairly spicy combined with the telemeport strat they also previewed.

Nothing screams "8th edition 40k" like winning the roll for first turn so you get to spend 2cp to teleport your rubrics up, shoot as if you were 1" away, and then shoot again.

Yep, that right there is a power boost for sure. A really fething obnoxious power boost.

Agreed.

I dislike that certain factions get abilities that simply break the core rules of the game. The most obnoxious recently for me are; "deploy closer than 9 brooo" and "deploy on turn 1 man, tacticz".

I also dislike it when certain factions have literally no answer to these obnoxious combos. Makes for a pretty boring game when I have to sit and watch my opponent do cool things and I just remove models. It'd be nice if GW added a bit of back and forth to every faction. There needs to be some consolidation of the stratagems and allowance for counter-play IMO.

I mean, tbf, none of those break core rules of the game. There's nothing in the core rules that says Over 9", it's just what GW had been (mostly) limiting factions to. And there have been situations that worked out like that previously but in your favor - like when they culled all turn 1 deep strike from the game EXCEPT for da jump (and I think there were like 2 more powers that worked like that or something)

But there are way too many things like that at this point. I feel like I need to employ some kind of massive turn 1 casualty reducing rule, just to force some kind of maneuver or something before we start removing models by the bucket load.

Fog of War: All shooting attacks declared in the first battle round suffer -2 to hit. All charge rolls made during the first turn subtract -2 from the result.

I like the sentiment, but given that space marines can just reroll everything without any cosideration to modifiers, unlike every other faction in the game, that would actually just make them better.

Maybe it should just be that weapon ranges are halved during T1? And then curb down a bit on abilities that are basically guaranteed T1 charges and tougher restrictions on amount of "scout move" type deployment

the_scotsman wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

That's fairly spicy combined with the telemeport strat they also previewed.

Nothing screams "8th edition 40k" like winning the roll for first turn so you get to spend 2cp to teleport your rubrics up, shoot as if you were 1" away, and then shoot again.

Yep, that right there is a power boost for sure. A really fething obnoxious power boost.

Agreed.

I dislike that certain factions get abilities that simply break the core rules of the game. The most obnoxious recently for me are; "deploy closer than 9 brooo" and "deploy on turn 1 man, tacticz".

I also dislike it when certain factions have literally no answer to these obnoxious combos. Makes for a pretty boring game when I have to sit and watch my opponent do cool things and I just remove models. It'd be nice if GW added a bit of back and forth to every faction. There needs to be some consolidation of the stratagems and allowance for counter-play IMO.

I mean, tbf, none of those break core rules of the game. There's nothing in the core rules that says Over 9", it's just what GW had been (mostly) limiting factions to. And there have been situations that worked out like that previously but in your favor - like when they culled all turn 1 deep strike from the game EXCEPT for da jump (and I think there were like 2 more powers that worked like that or something)

But there are way too many things like that at this point. I feel like I need to employ some kind of massive turn 1 casualty reducing rule, just to force some kind of maneuver or something before we start removing models by the bucket load.

Fog of War: All shooting attacks declared in the first battle round suffer -2 to hit. All charge rolls made during the first turn subtract -2 from the result.

Yeah bring back the option for night fighting. (My support of this has nothing to do with my playing Night Lords).

PiñaColada wrote:
To be fair, now they're showing an "Infernal Fusillade" strat which is real good. 1CP shoot twice with RF weapons using a rubric or SOT unit if they stood still

feth, yes. And what's even better? Not part of a cult so our options for more stuff is expanded.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
To be fair, now they're showing an "Infernal Fusillade" strat which is real good. 1CP shoot twice with RF weapons using a rubric or SOT unit if they stood still

That's fairly spicy combined with the telemeport strat they also previewed.

Nothing screams "8th edition 40k" like winning the roll for first turn so you get to spend 2cp to teleport your rubrics up, shoot as if you were 1" away, and then shoot again.

Yep, that right there is a power boost for sure. A really fething obnoxious power boost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PiñaColada wrote:
It's actually a really good strat and I'm guessing several people are going to try out max sized squads of rubricae or even SOT now (big blobs of SOT are also a decent target for that healing spell)

Tougher to get SoTs that didn't move tho. Rubrics have that baked in with the dedeploy strat if you go first. Shoot twice for 1cp isn't nearly as bonkers if it's turn 3 on a squad of SoTs.

Err, well, I guess. They're going to be unsupported with rerolls unless you can warptime a flying caster. 78 IB shots kills a lot, but nowhere near its points. Then you'll lose 1/4 your army next turn.

 Imateria wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

That's fairly spicy combined with the telemeport strat they also previewed.

Nothing screams "8th edition 40k" like winning the roll for first turn so you get to spend 2cp to teleport your rubrics up, shoot as if you were 1" away, and then shoot again.

Yep, that right there is a power boost for sure. A really fething obnoxious power boost.

Agreed.

I dislike that certain factions get abilities that simply break the core rules of the game. The most obnoxious recently for me are; "deploy closer than 9 brooo" and "deploy on turn 1 man, tacticz".

I also dislike it when certain factions have literally no answer to these obnoxious combos. Makes for a pretty boring game when I have to sit and watch my opponent do cool things and I just remove models. It'd be nice if GW added a bit of back and forth to every faction. There needs to be some consolidation of the stratagems and allowance for counter-play IMO.

I mean, tbf, none of those break core rules of the game. There's nothing in the core rules that says Over 9", it's just what GW had been (mostly) limiting factions to. And there have been situations that worked out like that previously but in your favor - like when they culled all turn 1 deep strike from the game EXCEPT for da jump (and I think there were like 2 more powers that worked like that or something)

But there are way too many things like that at this point. I feel like I need to employ some kind of massive turn 1 casualty reducing rule, just to force some kind of maneuver or something before we start removing models by the bucket load.

Fog of War: All shooting attacks declared in the first battle round suffer -2 to hit. All charge rolls made during the first turn subtract -2 from the result.

I like the sentiment, but given that space marines can just reroll everything without any cosideration to modifiers, unlike every other faction in the game, that would actually just make them better.

I believe BA, even after PA3, do not have that rule and still reroll failed hitroll. So only codex SM chapter masters can reroll all rolls. This makes me think that GW has understood that giving full reroll to SM is just a bad design.

 Dynas wrote:
So Dark Angels can get 6" charges now. Gotta love how GW nerfs the charge from DS then gives it back to SM. Meanwhile Tyranids are stuck with the at best 8" charge with reroll.

I kinda understand your point, but the 6" charges is not open to dark angels but only to deathwing, meaning only to terminator. This makes a big difference since DW units are too expensive for what they do.

Sorry to disappoint, but sister effects have the new full rerolls.

Also, in that same BoB book, there are tyranid effects which have the new full rerolls.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
To be fair, now they're showing an "Infernal Fusillade" strat which is real good. 1CP shoot twice with RF weapons using a rubric or SOT unit if they stood still

feth, yes. And what's even better? Not part of a cult so our options for more stuff is expanded.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
To be fair, now they're showing an "Infernal Fusillade" strat which is real good. 1CP shoot twice with RF weapons using a rubric or SOT unit if they stood still

That's fairly spicy combined with the telemeport strat they also previewed.

Nothing screams "8th edition 40k" like winning the roll for first turn so you get to spend 2cp to teleport your rubrics up, shoot as if you were 1" away, and then shoot again.

Yep, that right there is a power boost for sure. A really fething obnoxious power boost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PiñaColada wrote:
It's actually a really good strat and I'm guessing several people are going to try out max sized squads of rubricae or even SOT now (big blobs of SOT are also a decent target for that healing spell)

Tougher to get SoTs that didn't move tho. Rubrics have that baked in with the dedeploy strat if you go first. Shoot twice for 1cp isn't nearly as bonkers if it's turn 3 on a squad of SoTs.

Err, well, I guess. They're going to be unsupported with rerolls unless you can warptime a flying caster. 78 IB shots kills a lot, but nowhere near its points. Then you'll lose 1/4 your army next turn.

Do you really figure theyd be far up? I figure at max ill be like 10" from my DZ. If I dont have a daemon prince (AND ILL HAVE ONE) ill just advance an esorc.

And probably drop prescience. Heck, maybe votlw, but probably not.

And I wont be buying a 20 man squad to try and pull this off, ill just have the 10 man squad I would already. If I win first turn they get to jump right into an advantageous spot and double shoot some nerds turn 1.

Particularlt if its a unit my opponent thinks is reasonably in the backfield and I can reach out and boop them like some hellblasters or aggressors or something that could be nasty.

Spoletta wrote:
Sorry to disappoint, but sister effects have the new full rerolls.

Also, in that same BoB book, there are tyranid effects which have the new full rerolls.

Which Tyranid rules from BoB are you talking about exactly?

Spoletta wrote:
Sorry to disappoint, but sister effects have the new full rerolls.

Also, in that same BoB book, there are tyranid effects which have the new full rerolls.

lol I didn't know, thanks for the input. This doesn't make sense to me : why BA do not get that rule and others do ?

What's the reroll difference?

the_scotsman wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

That's fairly spicy combined with the telemeport strat they also previewed.

Nothing screams "8th edition 40k" like winning the roll for first turn so you get to spend 2cp to teleport your rubrics up, shoot as if you were 1" away, and then shoot again.

Yep, that right there is a power boost for sure. A really fething obnoxious power boost.

Agreed.

I dislike that certain factions get abilities that simply break the core rules of the game. The most obnoxious recently for me are; "deploy closer than 9 brooo" and "deploy on turn 1 man, tacticz".

I also dislike it when certain factions have literally no answer to these obnoxious combos. Makes for a pretty boring game when I have to sit and watch my opponent do cool things and I just remove models. It'd be nice if GW added a bit of back and forth to every faction. There needs to be some consolidation of the stratagems and allowance for counter-play IMO.

I mean, tbf, none of those break core rules of the game. There's nothing in the core rules that says Over 9", it's just what GW had been (mostly) limiting factions to. And there have been situations that worked out like that previously but in your favor - like when they culled all turn 1 deep strike from the game EXCEPT for da jump (and I think there were like 2 more powers that worked like that or something)

But there are way too many things like that at this point. I feel like I need to employ some kind of massive turn 1 casualty reducing rule, just to force some kind of maneuver or something before we start removing models by the bucket load.

Fog of War: All shooting attacks declared in the first battle round suffer -2 to hit. All charge rolls made during the first turn subtract -2 from the result.

Are there any factions other than GSC that can deploy closer than 9"?

I thought being all sneaky was supposed to be their 'thing'?

Apparently 8ft superhumans in tank-like armour are sneakier than bald civilians with a little purple tinge. I mean, there's a literal dreadnaught chassis type machine that is apparently so quiet, so damn sly it can sneak up on you. How?!

I just don't get it. It feels like one faction can do everything the others are known for but better. To the point where GW are now breaking their own self imposed restrictions (no DS within 9" for example) to better serve this faction.

I can see it now. There'll be a new Chapter, the 'Hungry Bois', known for a hunger more ravenous than Tyranids. They consume even daemons and Necrons. Their doctrine 'everlasting hunger' gives them full charge rerolls, +2 attacks in combat and the ability to move again via stratagem and psychic power after deep striking. The 'Ooligan' Chapter - known for their love of combat and lack of manners will have a doctrine that gives them squads of 30 man units, +3" to all movement, advance and charge rolls and complete moral immunity.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
What's the reroll difference?

Pre SM codex v2 chapter masters used to have "reroll all failed hit roll" and with the SM v2 they got "reroll hit roll", except for BA chapter masters.

The not-scout Marines with no DS bubble effectively took an ability on one Cult character and made it part of a troop choice for marines.
On top of that, they also get a Strategem to shoot at DS units, can DS turn 1 (where as the clever wording of a Strategem allowed GSC to do it before, now faq'd), and can place units up the boards, instead of giving them a scout move.

Seems like they've effectively done everything GSC do better. Except Rocksaws..... Just wait.

Anyway, the TS stuff looks alright, if not a bit disappointing overall. I kind of wish there was more to see confirmed. I hope it's not like with the BoB stuff where they showed off the worst stuff for Tyranids.

WhiteDog wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
What's the reroll difference?

Pre SM codex v2 chapter masters used to have "reroll all failed hit roll" and with the SM v2 they got "reroll hit roll", except for BA chapter masters.

Back to the stupidity of having the same units in way too many different codexes for GW to bother keeping track.

WhiteDog wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
What's the reroll difference?

Pre SM codex v2 chapter masters used to have "reroll all failed hit roll" and with the SM v2 they got "reroll hit roll", except for BA chapter masters.

IIRC the difference is that the old one didn't allow you to reroll if your profile says you hit on 3+ and your dice land a 3, but the enemy has a rule giving you -1 to hit, right?
Else I can't really see the difference, except if you want to farm for 6 for a special rule maybe?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

IIRC the difference is that the old one didn't allow you to reroll if your profile says you hit on 3+ and your dice land a 3, but the enemy has a rule giving you -1 to hit, right?
Else I can't really see the difference, except if you want to farm for 6 for a special rule maybe?

It was explained to me (and i may be getting this wrong) that the difference is that in situations of - to hit, the all rolls includes the numbers that fail to hit by the - to hit number exactly. because in the rules a hit that would miss due to the minus doesn't count as a failed hit roll. thus scenarios when -1 or even minus 2 can happen, they get a cleaner shot than other armies... nevermind the fact not every army can get such a sweeping reroll in general on the "failed" hit scale.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

That's fairly spicy combined with the telemeport strat they also previewed.

Nothing screams "8th edition 40k" like winning the roll for first turn so you get to spend 2cp to teleport your rubrics up, shoot as if you were 1" away, and then shoot again.

Yep, that right there is a power boost for sure. A really fething obnoxious power boost.

Agreed.

I dislike that certain factions get abilities that simply break the core rules of the game. The most obnoxious recently for me are; "deploy closer than 9 brooo" and "deploy on turn 1 man, tacticz".

I also dislike it when certain factions have literally no answer to these obnoxious combos. Makes for a pretty boring game when I have to sit and watch my opponent do cool things and I just remove models. It'd be nice if GW added a bit of back and forth to every faction. There needs to be some consolidation of the stratagems and allowance for counter-play IMO.

I mean, tbf, none of those break core rules of the game. There's nothing in the core rules that says Over 9", it's just what GW had been (mostly) limiting factions to. And there have been situations that worked out like that previously but in your favor - like when they culled all turn 1 deep strike from the game EXCEPT for da jump (and I think there were like 2 more powers that worked like that or something)

But there are way too many things like that at this point. I feel like I need to employ some kind of massive turn 1 casualty reducing rule, just to force some kind of maneuver or something before we start removing models by the bucket load.

Fog of War: All shooting attacks declared in the first battle round suffer -2 to hit. All charge rolls made during the first turn subtract -2 from the result.

Are there any factions other than GSC that can deploy closer than 9"?

I thought being all sneaky was supposed to be their 'thing'?

Apparently 8ft superhumans in tank-like armour are sneakier than bald civilians with a little purple tinge. I mean, there's a literal dreadnaught chassis type machine that is apparently so quiet, so damn sly it can sneak up on you. How?!

I just don't get it. It feels like one faction can do everything the others are known for but better. To the point where GW are now breaking their own self imposed restrictions (no DS within 9" for example) to better serve this faction.

I can see it now. There'll be a new Chapter, the 'Hungry Bois', known for a hunger more ravenous than Tyranids. They consume even daemons and Necrons. Their doctrine 'everlasting hunger' gives them full charge rerolls, +2 attacks in combat and the ability to move again via stratagem and psychic power after deep striking. The 'Ooligan' Chapter - known for their love of combat and lack of manners will have a doctrine that gives them squads of 30 man units, +3" to all movement, advance and charge rolls and complete moral immunity.

And despite being their own codex with their own units and identity you'll insist they're not really a seperate army. you'd have a lot better a time understanding 40k if you realized that as far as GW is concerned "if it has it's own codex, it is it's own faction"