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Sabotage! wrote: You know, with Inquisitors not belonging on the battlefield with new GW's mindset, maybe these rules aren't for 40k at all. This very well could be a Kill Team list......
I'm not seeing this. If GW didn't want them on the 40k battlefield, they wouldn't have been included in Index2. I can field a handful of Inquisition in my SM armies right now, but the penalties simply aren't worth the it. I'm willing to bet we are going to see them get some rules that let them be deployed with other factions without losing things like our doctrines - same concept as they can do with transports currently.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Enforcers showing up in an Inquisitorial list wouldn't make any fluff sense, and I doubt GW is about to create a 'Counts As' situation.
Well, Godwyn Fischig (Adeptus Arbite chastener) was in Gregor Eisenhorn's retinue.
Fluff-wise Arbites would be engaged for use for a more local take-down of whatever prey an Inquisitor was after that would be more than his retinue could handle.
Involving Guard or Marines is when all pretense of investigation/stealth/capture are cast off.
I was thinking of Enforcers would be ideal as any bodyguard role or any other incidental items.
It might take some kit-bashing to ensure the armament matches the Codex specified weapons.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
Sabotage! wrote: You know, with Inquisitors not belonging on the battlefield with new GW's mindset, maybe these rules aren't for 40k at all. This very well could be a Kill Team list......in fact I think that leaked distribution list in the Warcry thread mentioned a KT annual the first week in January. They could very well put this list in there.
No one seems particularly clear on what this means.
It seems to be a little more than WD + Inquisition + ?? = Profit? scenario.
If its more than a fluff piece, I'll be mildly surprised.
Sabotage! wrote: You know, with Inquisitors not belonging on the battlefield with new GW's mindset, maybe these rules aren't for 40k at all. This very well could be a Kill Team list......in fact I think that leaked distribution list in the Warcry thread mentioned a KT annual the first week in January. They could very well put this list in there.
No one seems particularly clear on what this means.
It seems to be a little more than WD + Inquisition + ?? = Profit? scenario.
If its more than a fluff piece, I'll be mildly surprised.
I'd actually be surprised if there won't be any rules. That seems to be the major selling point of the latest incarnation of White Dwarf, and one assumes the content announced in the preview for the following month would be the most substantial thing featured in that month.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
Sabotage! wrote: You know, with Inquisitors not belonging on the battlefield with new GW's mindset, maybe these rules aren't for 40k at all. This very well could be a Kill Team list......in fact I think that leaked distribution list in the Warcry thread mentioned a KT annual the first week in January. They could very well put this list in there.
No one seems particularly clear on what this means.
It seems to be a little more than WD + Inquisition + ?? = Profit? scenario.
If its more than a fluff piece, I'll be mildly surprised.
I'd actually be surprised if there won't be any rules. That seems to be the major selling point of the latest incarnation of White Dwarf, and one assumes the content announced in the preview for the following month would be the most substantial thing featured in that month.
I'm expecting rules too, Inquisition are the last remaining thing keeping Index: Imperium 2 on sale. Once they get their WD article, II2 can be retired ahead of the Warhammer 40K Legends launching in the new year to cover legacy models in a different way.
It really is amazing to me that folks have this perception that Inquisiton is some teeny tiny faction with no models that can be used to represent them, and we now have...what...seven plastic kits of imperial human fighters released for Necromunda?
Even if you did go for "no model no rules" imagine rules for Inquisitorial Acolytes based on those kits. You could split it into something like "Acolyte Gunslingers, Acolyte Brutes, and Acolyte Paramilitary" and make 40k rules for the bits contained within the Necromunda kits, and you'd end up with more extensive weapon lists than basically any unit that has ever been in the game.
Acolyte Gunslingers: Escher kit, Orlock Kit, and Delaque kit. Starts with paired laspistols. Higher Move, higher ballistic skill, 6+ sv, with the primary weapons they have access to being either paired pistols, short range special weapons, and pistol/melee weapon builds
Acolyte Paramilitary: Van Saar, Palantine Enforcer, and Rogue Trader kit. higher cost, carapace armor, start with lasguns and can be upgraded to boltguns/shotguns with special gear options like the riot shields and an attack dog and heavy weapons like rotor cannons, suppression lasers and plasma cannons
Acolyte Brutes: Goliath and Cawdor kits. Similar stats to melee cultists as a baseline, but many of the Goliath weapons give strength bonuses to make the beefy Goliath models make more sense.
Give Inquisition the plastic models they've already released for their specialist squads (Death Cult Assassins using the Rogue Trader model, models out of BSF, Rogue Traders, Navigators, Primaris Psykers, Crusaders, etc) and give them access to a few of the imperial support units like Valkyries, Chimeras, Tauroxes and Militarum Tempestus, and you've got the best list Inquisition has ever had without violating any of the chapterhouse limitations.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
the_scotsman wrote: It really is amazing to me that folks have this perception that Inquisiton is some teeny tiny faction with no models that can be used to represent them, and we now have...what...seven plastic kits of imperial human fighters released for Necromunda?
Even if you did go for "no model no rules" imagine rules for Inquisitorial Acolytes based on those kits. You could split it into something like "Acolyte Gunslingers, Acolyte Brutes, and Acolyte Paramilitary" and make 40k rules for the bits contained within the Necromunda kits, and you'd end up with more extensive weapon lists than basically any unit that has ever been in the game.
Acolyte Gunslingers: Escher kit, Orlock Kit, and Delaque kit. Starts with paired laspistols. Higher Move, higher ballistic skill, 6+ sv, with the primary weapons they have access to being either paired pistols, short range special weapons, and pistol/melee weapon builds
Acolyte Paramilitary: Van Saar, Palantine Enforcer, and Rogue Trader kit. higher cost, carapace armor, start with lasguns and can be upgraded to boltguns/shotguns with special gear options like the riot shields and an attack dog and heavy weapons like rotor cannons, suppression lasers and plasma cannons
Acolyte Brutes: Goliath and Cawdor kits. Similar stats to melee cultists as a baseline, but many of the Goliath weapons give strength bonuses to make the beefy Goliath models make more sense.
Give Inquisition the plastic models they've already released for their specialist squads (Death Cult Assassins using the Rogue Trader model, models out of BSF, Rogue Traders, Navigators, Primaris Psykers, Crusaders, etc) and give them access to a few of the imperial support units like Valkyries, Chimeras, Tauroxes and Militarum Tempestus, and you've got the best list Inquisition has ever had without violating any of the chapterhouse limitations.
Remember that no model no rules is our shorthand for GW's obsessive rules representation strategy for model, not an actual rule you (or GW or its employees) can try to bend to work around management or legal department directives.
The comparison isn't perfect but GW's approach in practice is more like action figures with a TV show tie-in that tries to sell the figures. The models define what they are meant to be, and they are exactly that one thing and nothing else. They get rules so you can recreate their intended features on the tabletop, from necessary little things like the weaponry they show to things from the narrative attached to them, which is to say bespoke special rules that let you play out their special thing on the tabletop much like that character in the TV show eats, bathes and rescues hostages from a hijacked plane on his bike because that's what the action figure looks like and that's the special thing he does - he's that really cool biker and he can do things on his bike no matter how nonsensical. That's how we get hobo gunslingers with better pistols than the Imperium's finest weapon artisans can make for the elite forces of the Imperium.
All those gangers according to GW's current marketing approach are no more and no less than those specific gangers, embedded in that specific setting and with no peers outside of it that they might represent. It's not that the issue is on the customer side. All those people repurposing all manner of models for the 28mm versions of Inquisitor are proof that it's not folks having the wrong perception about the Inquisition. The trouble is that the majority of people looking for Inquisition play 40k, not its (official or unofficial) side games and it is, unfortunate as it is, just the acknowledgement of GW's stubborn refusal to give the Inquisition adequate rules representation that you see when you look at most people's posts who are down about what Inquisition might be and what it in all likelihood will be.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
Probably a fake or partially fake list, but yeah I could see GW doing the "Next Month: Inquisition!" thing as a zero-effort WD article and a MTO run, that would be about par for the course.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
The_scotman, Geifer is right on. GW doesn't like counts as or conversions anymore, while their are tons of models available to be used for Inquisition, since they aren't branded as Inquisition GW will not give them rules in the list.
Also I agree the list is probably fake, the Warcry prices are off and if they are repackaged with double models for Slaves, the price is way too low. The Necromunda starter is also listed at 290 USD, which is sheer insanity. I think Yodrin is right, we will probably see a MTD for a couple Inquisitor models to complement a phoned in WD dex.
Sabotage! wrote: The_scotman, Geifer is right on. GW doesn't like counts as or conversions anymore, while their are tons of models available to be used for Inquisition, since they aren't branded as Inquisition GW will not give them rules in the list.
Also I agree the list is probably fake, the Warcry prices are off and if they are repackaged with double models for Slaves, the price is way too low. The Necromunda starter is also listed at 290 USD, which is sheer insanity. I think Yodrin is right, we will probably see a MTD for a couple Inquisitor models to complement a phoned in WD dex.
The only thing I can think of, with regards to Necromunda, is that it's including a full hardcover rulebook.
Also, shush you about a MTO run being a bad thing! I can finally get the damn Witchhunter with Plasma Pistol!
Which is why when I brought up the concept, somewhere, I described it as a sort of creating an Arbites retcon.
Don't think they would do it but they could toss out something like.
Arbites enforcement squad.
A palanite enforcers patrol may be used to represent an Arbites squad, followed by a block of rules. Implying that enforcers still look like Arbites and are modeled after Arbites.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sabotage! wrote: The_scotman, Geifer is right on. GW doesn't like counts as or conversions anymore, while their are tons of models available to be used for Inquisition, since they aren't branded as Inquisition GW will not give them rules in the list.
Also I agree the list is probably fake, the Warcry prices are off and if they are repackaged with double models for Slaves, the price is way too low. The Necromunda starter is also listed at 290 USD, which is sheer insanity. I think Yodrin is right, we will probably see a MTD for a couple Inquisitor models to complement a phoned in WD dex.
While not big on conversions, they still flirt with AM regiment conversions right in the codex.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/26 01:30:58
Also, shush you about a MTO run being a bad thing! I can finally get the damn Witchhunter with Plasma Pistol!
Oh the MTO is great, and the Witchhunter with the Plasma Pistol is an excellent model. It's just the MTO is disappointing in that it means there will be no Inquisition miniatures, which are years overdue. Now an MTO plus new minis would put me over the moon.
Insurgency Walker wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sabotage! wrote: The_scotman, Geifer is right on. GW doesn't like counts as or conversions anymore, while their are tons of models available to be used for Inquisition, since they aren't branded as Inquisition GW will not give them rules in the list.
Also I agree the list is probably fake, the Warcry prices are off and if they are repackaged with double models for Slaves, the price is way too low. The Necromunda starter is also listed at 290 USD, which is sheer insanity. I think Yodrin is right, we will probably see a MTD for a couple Inquisitor models to complement a phoned in WD dex.
While not big on conversions, they still flirt with AM regiment conversions right in the codex.
This is true, though I have the feeling this was only done because they were about to squat the metal ranges and Elysians and wanted it to look like their were more options for IG than their are (you can't even have Grenadiers anymore!). I would be pleasantly surprised if old Witch Hunter and Daemon Hunter style retinues came back along with storm trooper/Scions as a troop choice.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/10/26 02:21:41
I posted this in the Necromunda thread, but I feel it's worth noting here as well.
The date formats and prices using commas instead of periods are not how either are formatted in the US. Also the distinction for English on the books is formatted three different ways within the list(ENG, Eng, and English).
That just screams fake to me, as a real list leak would presumably have accurate, and consistent, formatting.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/26 16:55:17
You can never beat your first time. The second generation is shinier, stronger, faster and superior in every regard save one, and it's an unfair criticism to level, but it simply can't be as original. - Andy Chambers, on the evolution of Games Workshop games
Starfarer wrote: I posted this in the Necromunda thread, but I feel it's worth noting here as well.
The date formats and prices using commas instead of periods are not how either are formatted in the US. Also the distinction for English on the books is formatted three different ways within the list(ENG, Eng, and English).
That just screams fake to me, as a real list leak would presumably have accurate, and consistent, formatting.
My time working with corporations does nothing to make me believe that is what would make this fake. What makes this fake is that slaves to darkness are getting any attention at all.
from today's white dwarf preview article on warcom:
Index Imperialis: The Inquisition
The shadowy Ordos of the Inquisition are the stars of the largest Index Imperialis to date, featuring a whopping 20 pages of background and rules content – it’s like a mini codex in its own right!
As well as reading about the history of the Ordos and how they operate, you’ll find a host of new and updated rules in the form of Stratagems, datasheets (including those of unique Inquisitors such as Coteaz, Greyfax, Karamazov and Eisenhorn), Relics and even a new psychic discipline, Telethesia. It’s essential reading for fans of Inquisitors everywhere!
So we're getting more than the sisters of silence got
Seems like fun. I wonder what units will be in the mini-dex.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
I plan on getting this one as soon as the digital is released. If they are good enough to trade off for doctrines, I could build some BT + Inquis lists.
Karthicus wrote: I plan on getting this one as soon as the digital is released. If they are good enough to trade off for doctrines, I could build some BT + Inquis lists.
I can almost guarantee they will not be, lol. GW has basically never succeeded at making inquisition work, and they are so fractured and nonfunctional in 8th.
Just by keywords alone, their list has been so badly splintered it's impossible to field.
If you want to know my perfect wish list for an inquisition setup, it would be this:
IMPERIAL AGENTS
A detachment that includes 1 or more Inquisitor may be designated as an IMPERIAL AGENTS detachment. IMPERIAL AGENTS detachments gain no rules linked to <subfaction> traits, but may be composed of units with the following keywords:
INQUISITION
ASTRA MILITARUM
ADEPTA SORORITAS*
DEATHWATCH**
GREY KNIGHTS***
OFFICIO ASSASSINORUM
SISTERS OF SILENCE
ASTRA TELEPATHICA
ADEPTUS MINISTORUM
*Only if one or more INQUISITORS with the ORDO HERETICUS keyword are present
**Only if one or more INQUISITORS with the ORDO XENOS keyword are present
***Only if one or more INQUISITORS with the ORDO MALLEUS keyword are present
That, alongside a couple of rules updates, would give you a perfectly fluffy, but not OP/competitive, imperial agents matched play setup.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Karthicus wrote: I plan on getting this one as soon as the digital is released. If they are good enough to trade off for doctrines, I could build some BT + Inquis lists.
I can almost guarantee they will not be, lol. GW has basically never succeeded at making inquisition work, and they are so fractured and nonfunctional in 8th.
Just by keywords alone, their list has been so badly splintered it's impossible to field.
If you want to know my perfect wish list for an inquisition setup, it would be this:
IMPERIAL AGENTS
A detachment that includes 1 or more Inquisitor may be designated as an IMPERIAL AGENTS detachment. IMPERIAL AGENTS detachments gain no rules linked to <subfaction> traits, but may be composed of units with the following keywords:
INQUISITION
ASTRA MILITARUM
ADEPTA SORORITAS*
DEATHWATCH**
GREY KNIGHTS***
OFFICIO ASSASSINORUM
SISTERS OF SILENCE
ASTRA TELEPATHICA
ADEPTUS MINISTORUM
*Only if one or more INQUISITORS with the ORDO HERETICUS keyword are present
**Only if one or more INQUISITORS with the ORDO XENOS keyword are present
***Only if one or more INQUISITORS with the ORDO MALLEUS keyword are present
That, alongside a couple of rules updates, would give you a perfectly fluffy, but not OP/competitive, imperial agents matched play setup.
I mean.... the units would all become pretty much garbage that way. DW with no SIA? Even worse Grey Knights? Sisters with no prayers? They'd need something major to compensate.
Karthicus wrote: I plan on getting this one as soon as the digital is released. If they are good enough to trade off for doctrines, I could build some BT + Inquis lists.
I can almost guarantee they will not be, lol. GW has basically never succeeded at making inquisition work, and they are so fractured and nonfunctional in 8th.
Just by keywords alone, their list has been so badly splintered it's impossible to field.
If you want to know my perfect wish list for an inquisition setup, it would be this:
IMPERIAL AGENTS
A detachment that includes 1 or more Inquisitor may be designated as an IMPERIAL AGENTS detachment. IMPERIAL AGENTS detachments gain no rules linked to <subfaction> traits, but may be composed of units with the following keywords:
INQUISITION
ASTRA MILITARUM
ADEPTA SORORITAS*
DEATHWATCH**
GREY KNIGHTS***
OFFICIO ASSASSINORUM
SISTERS OF SILENCE
ASTRA TELEPATHICA
ADEPTUS MINISTORUM
*Only if one or more INQUISITORS with the ORDO HERETICUS keyword are present
**Only if one or more INQUISITORS with the ORDO XENOS keyword are present
***Only if one or more INQUISITORS with the ORDO MALLEUS keyword are present
That, alongside a couple of rules updates, would give you a perfectly fluffy, but not OP/competitive, imperial agents matched play setup.
I mean.... the units would all become pretty much garbage that way. DW with no SIA? Even worse Grey Knights? Sisters with no prayers? They'd need something major to compensate.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: this is now floating around facebook, no idea of original source but I saw it on The Waaagh Studios page
Spoiler:
not totally convinced since it seems to be the earlier rumour plus yet more stuff, but who knows it might be real
The whole thing was posted HERE on Dakka two weeks ago. So far it seems to be correct.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Karthicus wrote: I plan on getting this one as soon as the digital is released. If they are good enough to trade off for doctrines, I could build some BT + Inquis lists.
I can almost guarantee they will not be, lol. GW has basically never succeeded at making inquisition work, and they are so fractured and nonfunctional in 8th.
Just by keywords alone, their list has been so badly splintered it's impossible to field.
If you want to know my perfect wish list for an inquisition setup, it would be this:
IMPERIAL AGENTS
A detachment that includes 1 or more Inquisitor may be designated as an IMPERIAL AGENTS detachment. IMPERIAL AGENTS detachments gain no rules linked to <subfaction> traits, but may be composed of units with the following keywords:
INQUISITION
ASTRA MILITARUM
ADEPTA SORORITAS*
DEATHWATCH**
GREY KNIGHTS***
OFFICIO ASSASSINORUM
SISTERS OF SILENCE
ASTRA TELEPATHICA
ADEPTUS MINISTORUM
*Only if one or more INQUISITORS with the ORDO HERETICUS keyword are present
**Only if one or more INQUISITORS with the ORDO XENOS keyword are present
***Only if one or more INQUISITORS with the ORDO MALLEUS keyword are present
That, alongside a couple of rules updates, would give you a perfectly fluffy, but not OP/competitive, imperial agents matched play setup.
I mean.... the units would all become pretty much garbage that way. DW with no SIA? Even worse Grey Knights? Sisters with no prayers? They'd need something major to compensate.
nnnno? Deathwatch with no Mission Protocols, Grey Knights with no....what actually IS the GK chapter tactic? and Sisters with no Ordo tactic. None of those rules you listed are linked to <subfaction>. Though I suppose in the case of GK and DW you would need to specify that they don't get Mission Tactics/Grey Knight Thingy, because they don't have a <subfaction> choice.
Basically, it would be the equivalent of what happens right now if you use the ADEPTUS ASTARTES detachment to combine GK and DW.
And yeah, the goal would be to make Imperial Agents NOT the best way to run Deathwatch (for example) by granting them access to Imperial Guardsmen as troop choices. just to make the various Imperial Agents units actually fieldable outside of a way overcommitted detachment.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/08 19:07:58
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
