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This thread has been kind of a breath of fresh air to hear other people are sick of marine releases. Although I think its the months of rules advantage that is more annoying than marines getting all the newest models. It feels like round 2 of codex vs index inequality except this time the supplements might never happen for your faction. Chapter Approved would've been a much better place to release every faction's updated chapter tactics at the same time. At this point, I'm hoping for some kind of pity update in CA like they did for the index armies in 2017.

epronovost wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
If people buy more Xenos, they'll get more Xenos.

That's the truth

If GW advertised more for xenos, people would buy more xenos. That's the truth too.

How did a 200 million dollar advertising campaign turn out for Star Wars: Solo? :-P

 DominayTrix wrote:
This thread has been kind of a breath of fresh air to hear other people are sick of marine releases. Although I think its the months of rules advantage that is more annoying than marines getting all the newest models. It feels like round 2 of codex vs index inequality except this time the supplements might never happen for your faction. Chapter Approved would've been a much better place to release every faction's updated chapter tactics at the same time. At this point, I'm hoping for some kind of pity update in CA like they did for the index armies in 2017.

Well it's just marines vs marines at all the local shops at this point to. Very few people in the hobby don't have a marine army on the shelf they have been dying to play. It's always been a real problem with this game. These scattered rules releases prevent us from every getting a real grasp of the games balance.

in 7.5 gladius was pretty damn strong but compared to ynnari and daemonic incursion it was utter garbage but people still talk about how OP gladius was and it sure was for a time. Like now Marines are really strong compared to anything but the most WAAC tournament armies but over the next 6 months they will likely slowly fall into the middle but people will always remember these days when they got stomped by indestructible iron hands.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Thanks for the cute insult to my intelligence, nice one. We’ve already established that there’s no way to get GW to change their approach to Marines. All that’s left then is “do others feel the same” which I’ll leave you to.

No, we haven't established that there's no way to get GW to change their approach to Marines. You've asserted your belief, I disagree given they are apparently now listening to feedback from customers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PenitentJake wrote:
I read all of the first 2 pages and skimmed the 3rd. I got your OP loud and clear, but I was responding to other comments as well as your OP. I really need to learn to multiquote so I can disambiguate- it would have made my post more clear.

So I think you misread my point a bit.

Fair enough, to be fair my response wasn't intended to be aimed at you only either. Your points in the rest of your post are well made and valid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Very few people in the hobby don't have a marine army on the shelf they have been dying to play. It's always been a real problem with this game.

[Citation needed]

I will concede that most 40k players own a Marine army, but I suspect it's because they feature in 99.9% of starter sets therefore people end up owning marines as much by accident than by design. "Dying to play"? I doubt it.

 Ishagu wrote:

epronovost wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
If people buy more Xenos, they'll get more Xenos.

That's the truth

If GW advertised more for xenos, people would buy more xenos. That's the truth too.

How did a 200 million dollar advertising campaign turn out for Star Wars: Solo? :-P

Are you saying that changing the "mascot" to eldar or Tau etc would burn the core audience (marine players) to stop buying future GW products?

 fraser1191 wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:

epronovost wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
If people buy more Xenos, they'll get more Xenos.

That's the truth

If GW advertised more for xenos, people would buy more xenos. That's the truth too.

How did a 200 million dollar advertising campaign turn out for Star Wars: Solo? :-P

Are you saying that changing the "mascot" to eldar or Tau etc would burn the core audience (marine players) to stop buying future GW products?

Or that it would fail to attract a new audience...

 Ishagu wrote:

epronovost wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
If people buy more Xenos, they'll get more Xenos.

That's the truth

If GW advertised more for xenos, people would buy more xenos. That's the truth too.

How did a 200 million dollar advertising campaign turn out for Star Wars: Solo? :-P

Can't polish a turd.
Are you implying that the Xenos races are turds?

There's more to it than is being acknowledged.

 Ishagu wrote:

epronovost wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
If people buy more Xenos, they'll get more Xenos.

That's the truth

If GW advertised more for xenos, people would buy more xenos. That's the truth too.

How did a 200 million dollar advertising campaign turn out for Star Wars: Solo? :-P

Something Apples and Oranges.

epronovost wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:

epronovost wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
If people buy more Xenos, they'll get more Xenos.

That's the truth

If GW advertised more for xenos, people would buy more xenos. That's the truth too.

How did a 200 million dollar advertising campaign turn out for Star Wars: Solo? :-P

Are you saying that changing the "mascot" to eldar or Tau etc would burn the core audience (marine players) to stop buying future GW products?

Or that it would fail to attract a new audience...

More or less in response to this though GW should go back to marines VS Xenos as opposed to marines VS spikey marines. When I think 40k I think of that dawn of war cutscene with the orks, or the blood ravens VS the banshees

So that Chaos has again a range as old as it had until recently?

No if anything marines shouldn't get to be in a sc box for the next 3 years.

 Darian Aarush wrote:
Rumours that there might be a Traitor Guard army in the works...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsSSGgHWjpU

I'd be the first person who'd love to see Lost and Damned, but most Traitor Guard """Rumours""" are just educated guessed based off BSF.

 Arbitrator wrote:

 Darian Aarush wrote:
Rumours that there might be a Traitor Guard army in the works...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsSSGgHWjpU

I'd be the first person who'd love to see Lost and Damned, but most Traitor Guard """Rumours""" are just educated guessed based off BSF.

I think with the OOPing of R&H and the seperate selling of BSF it isn't as unlikely but yeah, educated guesses at hand.

I think the traitor guard are coming. They are going to be dropped off by the plastic thunderhawk. I have seen it, they are coming..

the_scotsman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Viridian wrote:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/780687.page

^ This thread alone started to make me realize there is a bit of marine entitlement / fascism running around dakka. I didn't post I just accepted it, it was fairly moderated to keep the thread to its name. People have a right to an opinion and to say it but apparently xenos aren't allowed to have one, and if you do they are allowed to walk into it and denounce it. I have actually started frequenting other forums like The Dark City and r/eldar. Even on those forums you still get IoM trolls, apologists & reactionaries like in this thread. But it is what it is.

OT: Yes there are severe signs of fatigue completely agree. I think they should of just rebooted the original dex. It was hard to deal with new models with new abilities and balance them with rules I get it. Marine's needed attention but they did not need supplementals. No OP you aren't alone just most people don't want the flack or to trivial argue with Mon-keigh that are so entitled to oppress opinions cause they believe you aren't entitled to have one in the first place... cause your race doesn't make the most sales remember /s. They say don't click on marine stuff if you don't want to read about it, but then again why are they here when they know it's going to be negative?

dude all that thread does is ask to have a conversation about Primaris Marines without getting flooded with "I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT PRIMARIS MARINES BECAUSE I HATE THEM AND REFUSE TO LEARN ANYTHING ABOUT THEM" posts. It was started after we'd had 5 or 6 "I hate Primaris" posts started that got kinda tiresome. And ya know what? this is something marine players over all seem to have to deal with. No one else has their army subjected to threads about how much they hate it. when's the last time you saw a post that amounted to "I HATE ORKS AND YOU SUCK FOR LIKING THEM?"

I'm sorry, you must have a short memory here - have you never seen a Tau or Eldar hate thread? Ever?

not often, I've seen the occasional "Tau are an awkward fit for 40k" arguement (I've agreed, but not because I wanted them gone, but rather because I wanted them given greater range, the startide nexus is exactly what the Tau needed) and I've never seen Eldar hate. Meanwhile I've never seen Eldar hate threads, well.. beyond the useal "Eldar are OP please nerf" that occurs everytime an army, any army wins a major event

You must not have played or kept up on the net long. As there was much Eldar hate in the past two editions at least. Scatter bikes, so much intense fun. The codex in general, was super fun to play against.

That said, I don't hate any army but Necrons. However I can see where people would grow to hate some of the abusive builds.

Oh I'd add in Imperial Guard hate to your lexicon. People love to hate Guard. They've hated them when bad, hate them more when good, hate them most used as CP farms. Though with the new marine super love, they've come up less and less. Fancy that.

This thread isn't about hating a particular faction.

This thread is about an annoyance with GW's focus on one faction to the detriment of all others.

AngryAngel80 wrote:
You must not have played or kept up on the net long. As there was much Eldar hate in the past two editions at least. Scatter bikes, so much intense fun. The codex in general, was super fun to play against.

That said, I don't hate any army but Necrons. However I can see where people would grow to hate some of the abusive builds.

Oh I'd add in Imperial Guard hate to your lexicon. People love to hate Guard. They've hated them when bad, hate them more when good, hate them most used as CP farms. Though with the new marine super love, they've come up less and less. Fancy that.

What's wrong with Necrons?

AngryAngel80 wrote:
You must not have played or kept up on the net long. As there was much Eldar hate in the past two editions at least. Scatter bikes, so much intense fun. The codex in general, was super fun to play against.

That said, I don't hate any army but Necrons. However I can see where people would grow to hate some of the abusive builds.

Oh I'd add in Imperial Guard hate to your lexicon. People love to hate Guard. They've hated them when bad, hate them more when good, hate them most used as CP farms. Though with the new marine super love, they've come up less and less. Fancy that.

as I said "Beyond the Eldar are OP please nerf"

 Blndmage wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
You must not have played or kept up on the net long. As there was much Eldar hate in the past two editions at least. Scatter bikes, so much intense fun. The codex in general, was super fun to play against.

That said, I don't hate any army but Necrons. However I can see where people would grow to hate some of the abusive builds.

Oh I'd add in Imperial Guard hate to your lexicon. People love to hate Guard. They've hated them when bad, hate them more when good, hate them most used as CP farms. Though with the new marine super love, they've come up less and less. Fancy that.

What's wrong with Necrons?

Nothing if you like Necrons, I just don't like them. Have hated them since they first came out. From the fact that they can be amazingly annoying when they fell down, and can all get back up with much softer morale checks for them. The near invincible monolith from back in the day. Watching old Ctans be thrown out as a gotcha unit to people who didn't know better. The storm lord making it night fighting near forever and earning first blood almost without question against me. Take your pick. Has nothing to do with how they work now exactly but my hate lingers on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
You must not have played or kept up on the net long. As there was much Eldar hate in the past two editions at least. Scatter bikes, so much intense fun. The codex in general, was super fun to play against.

That said, I don't hate any army but Necrons. However I can see where people would grow to hate some of the abusive builds.

Oh I'd add in Imperial Guard hate to your lexicon. People love to hate Guard. They've hated them when bad, hate them more when good, hate them most used as CP farms. Though with the new marine super love, they've come up less and less. Fancy that.

as I said "Beyond the Eldar are OP please nerf"

Saying the army is broke as a joke is still hating them. If they don't get as much direct hate on all that is Eldar its because GW doesn't really talk about Eldar much. Hell many players don't even know most of the Eldar units Naughty or less Naughty. Though you'd be hard pressed to find a player who doesn't know most all the marine units. It ends up going both ways, pushing one faction so hard tends to stir up love for it but over saturation will also push people who were neutral into disliking them utterly. Though demanding an army to be nerfed for OP builds is still hating them, however all that is Eldar isn't really shoved at everyone enough to make people hate them on the basis of army lore alone. You need to search for Eldar lore, you are run over and crushed by marine lore, visuals, press to love and embrace them.

Who said I was refering to them as a joke, I do remember the eldar being overpowered and people HATING on them (I felt bad for eldar players who just loved their faction) my point is you never hear people saying how eldar are bad for 40k, and you never hear people ranting and raving about hating eldar themselves, hating the rules because "they're OP this edition" is differant.


Ultimately I think we need to remember if an army exists, someone somewhere LOVES that army, and gaking on their parade no matter the army is just in poor taste. Yet you see it constantly "ohh well X shouldn't be an army, GW should just squat it" etc.

Even as a marine player, I'm tired of this long, drawn-out release. I felt the same way about Nurgle when 8th edition first dropped. It felt like every month more Nurgle was coming out. Nurgle for 40k. Nurgle for AoS. Nurgle for Blood Bowl. Drawn-out releases like this shine the spotlight on ONE faction, and make it hard to appreciate all of the other little things that come out in the interim. Things like Psychic Awakening right now feel overshadowed by the new Space Marines and the controversy of the Iron Hands being so powerful.

Meanwhile, things like Gloomspite Gitz come out as a full new army release with a ton of new models and replaced models and they're wrapped up in two weeks. I bet Ossiarch Bonereapers will be the same. Two, maybe three weeks of releases and then they'll be set aside for the next thing to hype.

We all just gotta remember: GW is inconsistent. This is because they're always trying to figure out what the best way to sell something is. It could be a problem of having too many cooks, or it could be that this is the path they've laid out years before and they're sticking to it, hell or high water. Throw in trade disputes with China and revolts in Hong Kong and you've got a recipe for inconsistency that we see happening right now.

BUT. Let's also remember that this is a LONG-TERM hobby. You can pick up a video game, read a guide, and beat it in a single sitting if you really wanted to. You can't do that with 40k. You spend hours putting your models together, hours painting them, and then each game takes hours to play. Some people can only get one game in each week! If you're upset about how much attention marines are getting, then just ignore the news for a while. Unplug from Warhammer Community and focus on your own hobby. Give it another month and you'll have a ton of new things to buy and a ton of new rumors to look at.

Staring at the thing you're tired of and screaming "I'm so sick of this!" is... well... silly.

drbored's point is a good one. I have been really salty and irritated with GW as a Word Bearer player but have recently had a much better time with my hobby.

I realised it takes me so damn long to build and paint everything that I'll just enjoy the lore and keep building towards an eventual use for them (either one page or possibly a GW release that does them justice)

drbored wrote:
We all just gotta remember: GW is inconsistent. This is because they're always trying to figure out what the best way to sell something is. It could be a problem of having too many cooks, or it could be that this is the path they've laid out years before and they're sticking to it, hell or high water. Throw in trade disputes with China and revolts in Hong Kong and you've got a recipe for inconsistency that we see happening right now.

I completely disagree. One of, if not THE most consistent thing that GW has ever done is to show a preference for creating new Marine models and rules. I started playing in 2nd edition and as far as I remember this focus/obsession by GW started in 3rd with the release of the Death Watch. That's when GW decided that there had to be a different flavour of Marine for every other faction that existed, with their own special units that the other Marine chapters didn't have because *reasons*.

BUT. Let's also remember that this is a LONG-TERM hobby. You can pick up a video game, read a guide, and beat it in a single sitting if you really wanted to. You can't do that with 40k. You spend hours putting your models together, hours painting them, and then each game takes hours to play. Some people can only get one game in each week! If you're upset about how much attention marines are getting, then just ignore the news for a while. Unplug from Warhammer Community and focus on your own hobby. Give it another month and you'll have a ton of new things to buy and a ton of new rumors to look at.

This strawman again. I'm not sitting anywhere desperately searching for Marine news then getting annoyed when it appears. I can't imagine anyone sick of Marine news is. Quite the opposite. Marine news is getting thrown at me. If not by GW themselves via WarComm or their mailing list or their Facebook page, then through Forums such as this one, or through the local gaming stores all suddenly having Marine armies "out of retirement" and having promotions on all these new Marine models and codexes or of course just the players that are excited about the *yet another round of* Marine releases wanting to talk about them (in real life) - you get the picture. It is tedious, tiring and as far as I'm concerned it is synonymous with the hobby.

I could sit at home, focus on my hobby and retreat from all news and information about 40k for the time being, but I'd rather just not hobby at all. Hobbying takes quite a bit of time and effort - it is difficult to maintain momentum unless I have a driver (such as a cool new model, or book, or something, anything) to look forward to it quickly falls off of my priorities list. When I see Marine after Marine after Marine release in such a short amount of time, my hobby momentum is basically taken out back and put to rest.

Staring at the thing you're tired of and screaming "I'm so sick of this!" is... well... silly.

Yes it is. Suggesting that someone is doing such is probably even more well....silly.

 Eldarain wrote:
drbored's point is a good one. I have been really salty and irritated with GW as a Word Bearer player but have recently had a much better time with my hobby.

I realised it takes me so damn long to build and paint everything that I'll just enjoy the lore and keep building towards an eventual use for them (either one page or possibly a GW release that does them justice)

It really is the good answer for dealing with it. I enjoy playing my Tau and most of my purchases were heavily influence by how effective a unit is on the tabletop. Kind of annoyed that I have a fully painted army that can just get blown out of the water because marines needed special snowflake rules. I never intend for my Emperor's Children to be competitive so it's been fun slowly building up 2k to look exactly like how I want them to. Really only salty that sonic dreads are OOP and FW is expensive, but even that just means it'll take longer.

 Ishagu wrote:

epronovost wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
If people buy more Xenos, they'll get more Xenos.

That's the truth

If GW advertised more for xenos, people would buy more xenos. That's the truth too.

How did a 200 million dollar advertising campaign turn out for Star Wars: Solo? :-P

That's a really dumb comparison.

On topic I agree with OP about marines over-exposure. I think a big reason for the dehypening around PA is mostly because it feels like unless its Imperial or Chaos it basically doesn't matter, so to launch with an Eldar focus was a mis-step. This is entirely GWs fault. When The End Times started there was a lot of discussion about how events would effect all the races because no one faction stood out above the other and INITIALLY there was a lot of hype from every corner. With 40k however the Imperium and especially Space Marines are such a huge focus of the narrative that everything else is basically window dressing. I'm lucky in that we only have one real SM player in our group though.

I don't begrudge them getting a lot of rules and supplements though. I still feel like its early days for 8th. We'll only just have fully updated the game from Index to Codex for all factions next month after all and I feel like people forget that a lot. They seem to expect the game to update in 2 year cycles due to how quickly 6th and 7th went by as opposed to 5 year cycles that we used to know.

I'm glad SM players get a lot of options and are in a better place, I will only begrudge them that if other factions aren't afforded the same consideration, but we won't know if thats the case until the "window dressing" armies like Tyranids and Necrons are update.

BrianDavion wrote:
Who said I was refering to them as a joke, I do remember the eldar being overpowered and people HATING on them (I felt bad for eldar players who just loved their faction) my point is you never hear people saying how eldar are bad for 40k, and you never hear people ranting and raving about hating eldar themselves, hating the rules because "they're OP this edition" is differant.


Ultimately I think we need to remember if an army exists, someone somewhere LOVES that army, and gaking on their parade no matter the army is just in poor taste. Yet you see it constantly "ohh well X shouldn't be an army, GW should just squat it" etc.

I am very new to this forum and I very well remember the time when people were saying that Inari and eldar are breaking the game, before castellans came up.

saying something breaks the game isn't like saying something shouldn't exist.

Truth is there are factions which it is debatable if they should stand alone.
Truth is also that them not standing on their own would meant issues like these parts of the lore note really beeing fleshed out.

Not Online!!! wrote:
saying something breaks the game isn't like saying something shouldn't exist.

Truth is there are factions which it is debatable if they should stand alone.
Truth is also that them not standing on their own would meant issues like these parts of the lore note really beeing fleshed out.

When GK were kicking ass I don't remember anyone saying they shouldn't be a faction by themselves, if they did they kept it quiet. It's only since they got bad that people have been vocal saying that. Likewise, I'm not hearing a lot of people saying knights or custodes shouldn't be a faction.

It just seems like saying a bad faction shouldn't exist is an excuse to ignore them.

Factions like GK, Custodes or Harlequins aren't too small to exist as their own armies. Space Marines have too many choices for what their supposed job is (shock assault), they don't have the numbers to engage in artillery or tank battles.

From that perspective, the Primaris line of stuff starts making a lot more sense - at least until GW bloats it up with 16 more different units in the next 3 years.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

This strawman again. I'm not sitting anywhere desperately searching for Marine news then getting annoyed when it appears. I can't imagine anyone sick of Marine news is. Quite the opposite. Marine news is getting thrown at me. If not by GW themselves via WarComm or their mailing list or their Facebook page, then through Forums such as this one, or through the local gaming stores all suddenly having Marine armies "out of retirement" and having promotions on all these new Marine models and codexes or of course just the players that are excited about the *yet another round of* Marine releases wanting to talk about them (in real life) - you get the picture. It is tedious, tiring and as far as I'm concerned it is synonymous with the hobby.

I could sit at home, focus on my hobby and retreat from all news and information about 40k for the time being, but I'd rather just not hobby at all. Hobbying takes quite a bit of time and effort - it is difficult to maintain momentum unless I have a driver (such as a cool new model, or book, or something, anything) to look forward to it quickly falls off of my priorities list. When I see Marine after Marine after Marine release in such a short amount of time, my hobby momentum is basically taken out back and put to rest.

If you're getting a lot of this stuff thrown in your face, then maybe it's time to stop visiting the warhammer community website for a while. Take it off your routine. Unfollow the facebook pages. Unplug from the forums for a month. Your attitude towards the hobby will improve, I guarantee it. It's really easy to 'fishbowl', to think that there's nothing else outside of the hobby if you keep focusing on all the negatives.

Also, the lack of discipline with your hobby sounds like a -you- problem. If you can't keep motivation with the army that you're building/painting, then you must not like it enough to build and paint it for its own sake. There's plenty of hobbyists that don't have this problem at all. People that work on their Necron or Tau armies, getting them steadily built and painted, for their own sake and because they like the force, not because they got a shiny new toy or because they're the most updated. Instead of trying to pick apart my arguments and find the negative to support your own status, it's time to try a different avenue and find the fun in the hobby again.