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Honestly, not a lot happened. There is some fluff but most is a rehash of fluff we already have.
Vect put a hit out on Yvraine (which we already knew), Drazhar responded and attacked when the Ynnari were convening for a meeting, got intercepted by Jain Zar who got chopped in half by Drazhar, subsequently got revived and in turn killed Drazhar. But Drazhar isn't dead either! His death confirms that he is similar to, if not a Phoenix Lord.
The arc is Yvraine running away from a Slaanesh Greater Daemon called Shalaxi Helbane and getting her followers killed in droves while she tries to assemble the Eldar version of the Marvel Avengers. She recruits Lilith (which we knew), the Visarch (also knew), Jain Zar and a Harlequin Solitaire.
They battle Shalaxi and manage to kill him after the Solitaire gets chopped in two, the Visarch gets chopped in two, Lilith stabs his face for a bit, Yvraine almost dies, Jain Zar dies (again, or comes close to it).
Obviously Yvraine revives them all except the Solitaire and the Daemon laughs saying he was just a hologram. So the Ynnari get murdered in droves again and it was all for nought.
Tyranid Horde wrote: Honestly, not a lot happened. There is some fluff but most is a rehash of fluff we already have.
Vect put a hit out on Yvraine (which we already knew), Drazhar responded and attacked when the Ynnari were convening for a meeting, got intercepted by Jain Zar who got chopped in half by Drazhar, subsequently got revived and in turn killed Drazhar. But Drazhar isn't dead either! His death confirms that he is similar to, if not a Phoenix Lord.
The arc is Yvraine running away from a Slaanesh Greater Daemon called Shalaxi Helbane and getting her followers killed in droves while she tries to assemble the Eldar version of the Marvel Avengers. She recruits Lilith (which we knew), the Visarch (also knew), Jain Zar and a Harlequin Solitaire.
They battle Shalaxi and manage to kill him after the Solitaire gets chopped in two, the Visarch gets chopped in two, Lilith stabs his face for a bit, Yvraine almost dies, Jain Zar dies (again, or comes close to it).
Obviously Yvraine revives them all except the Solitaire and the Daemon laughs saying he was just a hologram. So the Ynnari get murdered in droves again and it was all for nought.
Man, GW is really overdoing it with the "immortal, coming back from the dead" charakters. It's always the same with Vulcan, the Phoenix Lords, the Avatar and Yvvrain (almost all of those are eldar ). Fighting happens people die, except they don't really die....so much for tension and interesting story arks :(
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like soup. Now you put soup in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put soup into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now soup can flow or it can crash. Be soup, my friend.
Tyranid Horde wrote: Honestly, not a lot happened. There is some fluff but most is a rehash of fluff we already have.
Vect put a hit out on Yvraine (which we already knew), Drazhar responded and attacked when the Ynnari were convening for a meeting, got intercepted by Jain Zar who got chopped in half by Drazhar, subsequently got revived and in turn killed Drazhar. But Drazhar isn't dead either! His death confirms that he is similar to, if not a Phoenix Lord.
The arc is Yvraine running away from a Slaanesh Greater Daemon called Shalaxi Helbane and getting her followers killed in droves while she tries to assemble the Eldar version of the Marvel Avengers. She recruits Lilith (which we knew), the Visarch (also knew), Jain Zar and a Harlequin Solitaire.
They battle Shalaxi and manage to kill him after the Solitaire gets chopped in two, the Visarch gets chopped in two, Lilith stabs his face for a bit, Yvraine almost dies, Jain Zar dies (again, or comes close to it).
Obviously Yvraine revives them all except the Solitaire and the Daemon laughs saying he was just a hologram. So the Ynnari get murdered in droves again and it was all for nought.
Man, GW is really overdoing it with the "immortal, coming back from the dead" charakters. It's always the same with Vulcan, the Phoenix Lords, the Avatar and Yvvrain (almost all of those are eldar ). Fighting happens people die, except they don't really die....so much for tension and interesting story arks :(
To be fair, the Phoenix Lords have always been portrayed as immortal via the ability for the armor to transfer itself to a new body. The eldar in general have several ways to cheat death, none of which sound particularly pleasant if you think to much about it.
I do agree though that GW adding human characters with that trait to the mix is kinda silly.
Tyranid Horde wrote: Honestly, not a lot happened. There is some fluff but most is a rehash of fluff we already have.
Vect put a hit out on Yvraine (which we already knew), Drazhar responded and attacked when the Ynnari were convening for a meeting, got intercepted by Jain Zar who got chopped in half by Drazhar, subsequently got revived and in turn killed Drazhar. But Drazhar isn't dead either! His death confirms that he is similar to, if not a Phoenix Lord.
The arc is Yvraine running away from a Slaanesh Greater Daemon called Shalaxi Helbane and getting her followers killed in droves while she tries to assemble the Eldar version of the Marvel Avengers. She recruits Lilith (which we knew), the Visarch (also knew), Jain Zar and a Harlequin Solitaire.
They battle Shalaxi and manage to kill him after the Solitaire gets chopped in two, the Visarch gets chopped in two, Lilith stabs his face for a bit, Yvraine almost dies, Jain Zar dies (again, or comes close to it).
Obviously Yvraine revives them all except the Solitaire and the Daemon laughs saying he was just a hologram. So the Ynnari get murdered in droves again and it was all for nought.
Man, GW is really overdoing it with the "immortal, coming back from the dead" charakters. It's always the same with Vulcan, the Phoenix Lords, the Avatar and Yvvrain (almost all of those are eldar ). Fighting happens people die, except they don't really die....so much for tension and interesting story arks :(
To be fair, the Phoenix Lords have always been portrayed as immortal via the ability for the armor to transfer itself to a new body. The eldar in general have several ways to cheat death, none of which sound particularly pleasant if you think to much about it.
I do agree though that GW adding human characters with that trait to the mix is kinda silly.
It's not about the fact that they're immortal (it's basically in the name Phoenix Lord) but in the prevalence of them dying. The avatar already has the image of a punching back but the Phoenix lords were different up to the more recent fluff. And the whole perpetual idea is just incredible stupid and as far as I know comparable new, as are the Ynnari.
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like soup. Now you put soup in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put soup into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now soup can flow or it can crash. Be soup, my friend.
Tyranid Horde wrote: Honestly, not a lot happened. There is some fluff but most is a rehash of fluff we already have.
Vect put a hit out on Yvraine (which we already knew), Drazhar responded and attacked when the Ynnari were convening for a meeting, got intercepted by Jain Zar who got chopped in half by Drazhar, subsequently got revived and in turn killed Drazhar. But Drazhar isn't dead either! His death confirms that he is similar to, if not a Phoenix Lord.
The arc is Yvraine running away from a Slaanesh Greater Daemon called Shalaxi Helbane and getting her followers killed in droves while she tries to assemble the Eldar version of the Marvel Avengers. She recruits Lilith (which we knew), the Visarch (also knew), Jain Zar and a Harlequin Solitaire.
They battle Shalaxi and manage to kill him after the Solitaire gets chopped in two, the Visarch gets chopped in two, Lilith stabs his face for a bit, Yvraine almost dies, Jain Zar dies (again, or comes close to it).
Obviously Yvraine revives them all except the Solitaire and the Daemon laughs saying he was just a hologram. So the Ynnari get murdered in droves again and it was all for nought.
Man, GW is really overdoing it with the "immortal, coming back from the dead" charakters. It's always the same with Vulcan, the Phoenix Lords, the Avatar and Yvvrain (almost all of those are eldar ). Fighting happens people die, except they don't really die....so much for tension and interesting story arks :(
To be fair, the Phoenix Lords have always been portrayed as immortal via the ability for the armor to transfer itself to a new body. The eldar in general have several ways to cheat death, none of which sound particularly pleasant if you think to much about it.
I do agree though that GW adding human characters with that trait to the mix is kinda silly.
It's not about the fact that they're immortal (it's basically in the name Phoenix Lord) but in the prevalence of them dying. The avatar already has the image of a punching back but the Phoenix lords were different up to the more recent fluff. And the whole perpetual idea is just incredible stupid and as far as I know comparable new, as are the Ynnari.
Perpetuals were invented by Dan Abnett in his Alpha Legion novel, with the creation of John Grammaticus. One in a line of terrible narrative decisions he produced that have IMO affected 40k poorly.
Before perpetuals there were the Sensei, the naturally produced offspring of the Emperor from his philandering throughout history. They stood out only in that they possessed his immortality and a soul resistant to Chaos. However they weren't 'grow back from a toe wolverinestyle' immortal, only 'can't die of old age or disease tolkien elfstyle'. they basically roamed the galaxy like immortal Jedi knights fighting chaos. They were basically the closest thing to an eldar-human.
The vulcan growing back from incineration etc is just a really stupid concept. GW needs to keep superhero comic tropes out of 40k.
Phoenix lords really function like daemons. You sacrifice a soul to summon them and when they are damaged enough they are banished. They don't really behave like any of the classic immortal tropes. IMO they are far more like a daemon prince of Khaine than anything else - exarchs have 'fallen' to khaine in the same way a khorne berserker has fallen to Khorne.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/22 10:12:35
You see, I would have been fine with resurrection of the characters if they made it more substantial. The Visarch dying surprised me but he got revived so fast it made his death feel superfluous to the actual story that was going on.
Jain Zar's death actually happens in Blood of the Phoenix and that story doesn't feature in the Phoenix Rising book, which is very annoying.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/22 10:17:17
Thank you Tyranid Horde for putting my thoughts into words much more eloquently than I ever could
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/22 10:23:11
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like soup. Now you put soup in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put soup into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now soup can flow or it can crash. Be soup, my friend.
Ynnead now has a mote of power within the gestalt that is Jain Zar, since that resurrection was accomplished through the sacrifice of an Exarch resurrected through a miracle of Ynnead.
Problem I personally find is now the Ynnari are without a goal beyond proselytizing. Shalaxi showed Yvraine a vision of the last Cronesword in Slaanesh's palace, supposedly therefore meaning her original quest to acquire all 5 swords is now impossible. So now what? It at times seems to flirt with the idea that now Yvraine is going to have to cause the Eldar to go extinct (or nearly so) in order to awaken Ynnead.
With the Ynnari lacking any other characters of note besides Triumvirate (and of those only Yvraine really speaks to any great extent), GW has written themselves into a corner. So far any novel featuring the Ynnari inevitably features Yvraine, and therefore that automatically removes some suspense since we know Yvraine will therefore survive.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/22 12:37:31
[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern
Overall, I was broadly disappointed with the story in the hardback.
Felt like a lot of backfilling of pointy eared happenings twxit Fall of Cadia and now.
But....there is a clear sense it's building toward something - so willing to reserve judgement until the Psychic Awakening sequence is complete, and we can review in retrospect.
However, the book is still worth it for the sheer amount of new Eldar rules.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Iracundus wrote: Ynnead now has a mote of power within the gestalt that is Jain Zar, since that resurrection was accomplished through the sacrifice of an Exarch resurrected through a miracle of Ynnead.
Problem I personally find is now the Ynnari are without a goal beyond proselytizing. Shalaxi showed Yvraine a vision of the last Cronesword in Slaanesh's palace, supposedly therefore meaning her original quest to acquire all 5 swords is now impossible. So now what? It at times seems to flirt with the idea that now Yvraine is going to have to cause the Eldar to go extinct (or nearly so) in order to awaken Ynnead.
With the Ynnari lacking any other characters of note besides Triumvirate (and of those only Yvraine really speaks to any great extent), GW has written themselves into a corner. So far any novel featuring the Ynnari inevitably features Yvraine, and therefore that automatically removes some suspense since we know Yvraine will therefore survive.
I can has theory?
Spoiler:
So, the story made quite a thing about a Solitaire being necessary. Not a specific Solitaire, just any old Solitaire.
Now, we know they traditionally play the part of Slaanesh in the Grand Masques. We also know that their souls are forfeit upon snuffing it, unless Ceogarch can prank Slaanesh sufficiently.
I'm expecting a later book resurrection, where their soul has been mucking about in Slaanesh's Palace, emerging holding the fifth and final Cronesword - with it's death in the presence of the Ynnari key to resurrection.
This will show the gathering of the Five Swords to be largely and suitably symbolic. An Aledari soul able to walk about, untouchable, right under Slaanesh's perfectly formed nose. From there, more Aeldari flock to the cause.
If I'm right, please send your congratulations to me on the back of a £5 note
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/22 13:03:43
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Iracundus wrote: Shalaxi showed Yvraine a vision of the last Cronesword in Slaanesh's palace, supposedly therefore meaning her original quest to acquire all 5 swords is now impossible.
This part bugs the hell out of me. Yvraine just... trusts that the vision is true, and forgets about her plan to gather the Croneswords? That's just bizarre. Why would she unquestioningly believe a vision sent by the Great Enemy?
If Slaanesh even had a Cronesword, it would be in his/her/their advantage to keep it a secret from the Eldar and let them keep wasting their time looking for it fruitlessly. So either: 1. Slaanesh doesn't actually have a Cronesword; 2. they know that the path of the Ynnari is doomed to failure; or 3. they could use some scheming lessons from Tzeentch.
Mind, I only have the Cliff's Notes version of the story, found in the hardback. Perhaps I'm missing something.
.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/10/22 14:17:16
For that matter, so could Shalaxi Helbane's claim about just playing with them at the end of the battle on the maiden world. It could just be a face saving boast, similar to "I didn't really lose. I meant to do that as I wasn't really trying."
I admittedly prefer that over the claim being actually true, because it takes a battle from the Craftworld Eldar Codex timeline that was written as a victory of all Eldar over a daemonic force, and basically robs the victory of any value.
It was basically god awful.
1. Vect puts a bounty on Yvraine.
2. Drahzar goes to assassinate Yvraine despite their being faster ways for him to get personal gain.
3. Jain Zar saves Drahzar and chases him into the Webway.
4. After months they run into each other again along with their somehow alive normal followers. I guess they ate the weakest of their groups and drank their blood or something.
5. For some reason Drahzar was prepared specifically to fight Jain and kills her.
6. Ynnead revives an exarch who then finds Jains body and comes back.
7. Everyone goes to Zandros where Jain joins up with Ynnead and kills Drahzar because GW can't write and plot is the only reason either wins.
8. Yvraine finishes up by meeting up with a bunch of Seers, Dark Eldar and Corsairs on an Exodite world to fight Shalaxi Hexbane.
9. Despite fighting Lelith Hesperax, a Solitaire, Yvraine, the Visarch and Jain at once Shelaxi reveals they fought a small echo of it.
So basically Yvraine is alive because plot.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
Plot doesn't actually mean genuine plot. It means that when reading the story it feels as if the only reason that X happened is because X is what the writers wanted to happen.
For example the part where Drahzar kills Jain. Drahzar is only there to kill Yvraine for a bounty (which itself doesn't make sense to me) so why was he prepared especially for Jain Zar? The answer is just because. There was nothing hinting in the story that there was an existing rivalry, that Jain Zar was known to be with Yvraine or that Drahzar had time to go and get the special gear. It just happened.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
Man, GW really sucks at displaying power levels....
So you're telling me you got Lelith hesperax, the most powerful gladiator in commoragh, jain zar and a solitaire fighting an echo of shalaxi and they basically can't do anything against it? I call bs on that one...
I'm not an eldar player, but if I were I'd be a bit ticked off that my faction constantly gets beat into a pulp in the lore.
Tiberias wrote: Man, GW really sucks at displaying power levels....
So you're telling me you got Lelith hesperax, the most powerful gladiator in commoragh, jain zar and a solitaire fighting an echo of shalaxi and they basically can't do anything against it? I call bs on that one...
I'm not an eldar player, but if I were I'd be a bit ticked off that my faction constantly gets beat into a pulp in the lore.
You forgot the Visarch and Yvraine were helping. They did win although the Solitaire died (stupidly) as did the Visarch (temporarily) but it took a lot of work for an echo.
It's very annoying.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
GW also built Shalaxi up to be the best gladiatorial fighter in the game (lore-wise and play-wise). In AoS gameplay he can wipe Nagash, Skarbrand, Archaon...he’s good.
Not really surprised the Eldar are losing hard against their hated enemy’s strongest champion when more powerful individuals get snuffed by him regularly. They aren’t punching bags. It’s just Tuesday for Shalaxi.
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
timetowaste85 wrote: GW also built Shalaxi up to be the best gladiatorial fighter in the game (lore-wise and play-wise). In AoS gameplay he can wipe Nagash, Skarbrand, Archaon...he’s good.
Not really surprised the Eldar are losing hard against their hated enemy’s strongest champion when more powerful individuals get snuffed by him regularly. They aren’t punching bags. It’s just Tuesday for Shalaxi.
I could totally get behind that, but GW sort of kicked eldar players in the back of the head while they're already on the ground by saying..."oh and by the way, that awsomely powerful demon you just barely managed to kill was just an echo, so you suck even more than you think you do. Ok have fun bye!" This is what's bothering me essentially. I have no problems with heroes getting their teeth kicked in by a stonger foe and them barely winning, but don't diminish that victory....
pm713 wrote: 7. Everyone goes to Zandros where Jain joins up with Ynnead and kills Drahzar because GW can't write and plot is the only reason either wins.
But Zandros! Everyone loves references!
You can replace actual decent plot and characters with things people remember from the past.
Right Star Wars?
Right...?
timetowaste85 wrote: GW also built Shalaxi up to be the best gladiatorial fighter in the game (lore-wise and play-wise). In AoS gameplay he can wipe Nagash, Skarbrand, Archaon...he’s good.
Not really surprised the Eldar are losing hard against their hated enemy’s strongest champion when more powerful individuals get snuffed by him regularly. They aren’t punching bags. It’s just Tuesday for Shalaxi.
You can't really pull that excuse with Shalaxi though. Lelith is one of the best fighters in the entire galaxy and she uses knives to kill her enemies. She's so good she slaughters Astartes and such with plain knives. Solitaires literally ignore physics, are also one of the best fighters in the galaxy and can do things like duel Skulltaker for at least a day, Jain Zar is one of the best fighters to ever be produced by the Eldar and the Visarch and Yvraine are pretty good too. If all that is beaten by just a fragment then it looks like someone wanted to just write about how awesome their guy is that they can kill soooo many people without even trying. They basically were punching bags. It's as ridiculous as me saying that my Eldar character is such a badass he killed a hundred greater demons in a single battle! He's that good!
pm713 wrote: 7. Everyone goes to Zandros where Jain joins up with Ynnead and kills Drahzar because GW can't write and plot is the only reason either wins.
But Zandros! Everyone loves references!
You can replace actual decent plot and characters with things people remember from the past.
Right Star Wars?
Right...?
Star Wars had the decency to at least be pretty. I enjoyed it from that at least. GW just reuse a load of art and write bad stories.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/22 19:48:26
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
So...somebody who can kill regular marines with knives should be able to go toe to toe with the best duelist Chaos has to offer? You know who else kills marines with knives? Other marines. And skulltaker got taken down hard in current rules. He was only good when he was first created. He’s been garbage since. Besides, I said Skarbrand. Rage incarnate, biggest a-hole out there. Shalaxi stomps him.
I get that it took the piss to say it was an echo of him, but he should kick those Eldar in every time. Go down, sure. But take a bunch with him.
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
Marines can't kill Marines on that scale with knives, they use power weapons.
Rules aren't fluff.
I know but it was a good example.
Lelith, Solitaires and Jain Zars are all equal to Greater Demons. One of them against Shalaxi losing is fine, that's a fair fight. Two is a bit lucky for Shalaxi. Three is just implausible. All three and the Visarch and Yvraine AND their substantial death buffs? That's just ridiculous.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
Recap of the fight for those that haven't read it:
Spoiler:
Lelith stabs towards Shalaxi's face but is blocked by the shining aegis shield. Yvraine's wrist is grabbed by one of the tentacles. The Solitaire slips in and stabbed his Kiss into Shalaxi, unspooling the monomolecular wire. Shalaxi is wounded but not dead and shivers in ecstasy then snips the Solitaire in two with a claw. Meanwhile it uses its spear to slam into Jain Zar's midriff, hard enough to snap spines, but Jain Zar channeled energy from the dying Solitaire and spun her blade and caught Shalaxi's forehead just enough to draw blood, temporarily blinding it, or so it seems. Shalaxi staggers back and complains about that soul being Slaanesh's due. The Visarch attacks two handed but is blocked. Shalaxi throws its spear into the air and catches the Visarch's sword between thumb and finger, yanking the Visarch forward so that Shalaxi's falling spinning spear impales the Visarch, while a claw rips open Yvraine's throat.
Yvraine is healed by the energy of the world spirit. The Yncarne bursts from the ground where the Visarch falls, and fights Shalaxi, landing a blow from its Cronesword. Shalaxi in return impales the Yncarne but the Yncarne grins and clutches the spear, locking Shalaxi in place. The others take advantage of this moment. Yvraine slices Shalxi's midriff while Jain Zar thrusts her polearm through Shalaxi's back and chest. Lelith then stabs her knives into Shalaxi's eyes. Shalaxi seemingly begins to dissolve along with the lesser daemons in its force and the Eldar celebrate, but then Shalaxi claims it was only a glamour, solid enough to fight, but only an echo of its true power.
As per my earlier post, my view is that this is a face saving boast by Shalaxi to stave off having to admit losing. I see it as equivalent to a petulant child saying "I didn't really lose. I was just playing around. I could have won if I had been trying for real."
pm713 wrote: 7. Everyone goes to Zandros where Jain joins up with Ynnead and kills Drahzar because GW can't write and plot is the only reason either wins.
But Zandros! Everyone loves references!
You can replace actual decent plot and characters with things people remember from the past.
Right Star Wars?
Right...?
Yvraine is written as choosing Zandros on purpose to gain the psychological/morale high ground, due to that whole Drazhar possibly being Arhra theory.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/22 20:46:44
). Fighting happens people die, except they don't really die....so much for tension and interesting story arks :(
