Star Wars Rise of Skywalker - WARNING, SPOILERS.

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**Mr Morden**

gorgon wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
tyhe subversion of expectations I think is why so many people bash TLJ myself. Look, star wars will never be a best picture film, ut's not that type of movie, what it is those is comfortable, it uses elements from many of the favorite stories of the past (the whole monomyth) to generate a new story that feels, old, familer, like a pair of comfortable shoes.
Star Wars is, to use a meal analogy, not that fancy novue dish custom crafted by an artisan master chief that combines flavors together in some new and strange cominbation to win awards (55 dollars a plate, portions are tiny!). Star Wars is your box of Mac and Cheese, it's that thing you ate growing up, you know it's not the best thing in the world, but it's comfortable, and sometimes you just want comfortable.

Nope I bash TLJ becuase it is such a awful film, not a bad "Star Wars" film its simply a terrible film - its dull, tedious, badly written, worse directed and with zero interest in characters or plot.

Says the guy who was over the moon for Thor 2, the movie equivalent of store-brand mac and cheese.

Yep a far superior film to the POS that is TLJ - it had everything that TLJ did not. but then what film doesn't

**BrianDavion**

gorgon wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
tyhe subversion of expectations I think is why so many people bash TLJ myself. Look, star wars will never be a best picture film, ut's not that type of movie, what it is those is comfortable, it uses elements from many of the favorite stories of the past (the whole monomyth) to generate a new story that feels, old, familer, like a pair of comfortable shoes.
Star Wars is, to use a meal analogy, not that fancy novue dish custom crafted by an artisan master chief that combines flavors together in some new and strange cominbation to win awards (55 dollars a plate, portions are tiny!). Star Wars is your box of Mac and Cheese, it's that thing you ate growing up, you know it's not the best thing in the world, but it's comfortable, and sometimes you just want comfortable.

Nope I bash TLJ becuase it is such a awful film, not a bad "Star Wars" film its simply a terrible film - its dull, tedious, badly written, worse directed and with zero interest in characters or plot.

Says the guy who was over the moon for Thor 2, the movie equivalent of store-brand mac and cheese.

which gets back to my earlier comparison. Mac and Cheese movies aren't always a bad thing, they're comfortable, they're familer, they remind us of our childhood.

**Vulcan**

epronovost wrote:
Vulcan wrote:
Then I hope they at least include a caveat that if you're going to do a big, flashy swordfighting scene, bring in some stunt coordinators who can teach the actors that you don't use a sword the same way you use a baseball bat.

And having to use CGI to edit out a dagger so the hero doesn't get stabbed in the back means you screwed up your fight choreography something ferocious.

As far as movie swordfighting goes, I think the sequels were fine despite the few mistakes here and there like the reverse grip that Kylo Ren sometime uses or the edit-out dagger, but it's rare to see a movie without a few such mistake. Episode 8 probably had the best one in the sequel if only thanks to the multitude of weapons used by the guards. The Phantom Menace probably had the best stuntman and stunt choregrapher and they still had a miss chronographed kick and a pretty weird final move to cripple Darth Maul (though that's not a suntman error that's a script error). There was also some strange decisions in terms of fighting moves in Revenge of the Sith like Yoda jumping at the Emperors face whose holding his sword overhead instead of chopping off his legs for example (or even the Emperor holding his sword overhead in the first place), or Obi-Wan and Anakin forgetting that their laser sword can also be used to stab (or that side step are a thing). Considering that a lightsaber cannot lose its sharpness or break its blade, you can hammer away your opponent as much as you want even though considering the "sharpness of such a blade" a fencing style should be favored. A more "realistic" lightsaber fight would last less than four seconds considering no armor can protect you and the blade can slice through a man with basically no effort.

True. But the fight in VIII is nothing BUT clumsy choreography. There is a spot about ten seconds in where the guard closest to the camera has a clean shot at Rey's back and he baseball-swings WELL OVER HER HEAD. She didn't dodge it, he wasn't threatened by either Rey or Kylo Ren, he didn't miss by inches either, we're talking a good two feet or so over her head while her back was turned.

It's pretty clear someone missed their cue on that take, and I'm pretty sure it was Ridley. Not a big deal; this happens all the time when making a big action sequence like this. It takes multiple shots to get it right. But for Rian Johnson to LEAVE IT IN... sheer laziness on his part. Ridiculous.

And that's right at the beginning of the fight, and the miscues continue on throughout the whole fight. It's beyond clumsy. Even a cheap 70's Hong Kong martial arts director would balk at releasing a fight scene that bad.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

SamusDrake wrote:
Vulcan wrote:

And having to use CGI to edit out a dagger so the hero doesn't get stabbed in the back means you screwed up your fight choreography something ferocious.

Thats been a common practice in post production for years.

Sure, a professional stuntman will tell you it can be done better but when it comes to shooting footage a director will tell you that time is money. The later is something they'd better teach in film school...

True. But then, 70s Hong Kong action directors would do whole films in a couple weeks. In the time it took to make TLJ they'd make a dozen movies or more. And STILL get the fight choreography done right...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Backfire wrote:
I really didn't think back then that Phasma was killed and I doubt it was RJ's intention. Her 'end' was ambiguous enough so that she could have plausibly survived it (much more plausibly than in TFA in fact). I was disappointed when she didn't feature in TRoS. Though, the movie was so crammed with stuff there was no room for any more characters.

No reason to bring her back.

Face it, her whole point was to be the foil for Finn. She was his polar opposite. Her role was to be his opponent. Once Finn beat her in TLJ the conflict arc between Finn and Phasma was over, and with the arc over there was no point in shoehorning her into the already overcrowded TROS.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Are you suggesting Disney hire Jackie Chan and Cynthia Rothrock for the next Star Wars movie? Because that's not a bad suggestion.

**epronovost**

Vulcan wrote:
Face it, her whole point was to be the foil for Finn. She was his polar opposite. Her role was to be his opponent. Once Finn beat her in TLJ the conflict arc between Finn and Phasma was over, and with the arc over there was no point in shoehorning her into the already overcrowded TROS.

Ironically, with a tiny bit of work (and by casting someone who actally had time to star in movie at that point), you could have made a redemption ark for her, but that might have been a lot of remdemption ark for a single movie.

**warboss**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Are you suggesting Disney hire Jackie Chan and Cynthia Rothrock for the next Star Wars movie? Because that's not a bad suggestion.

On one of my (completely sober and not sarcastic) brain storm sessions about Trek fan films, I actually imagined Jackie Chan playing a strong, silent type of Starfleet admiral and doing a good job of it. I haven't thought of Cynthia Rothrock since passing on her VHS movies at blockbuster in the dawn of the 1990's.

**epronovost**

warboss wrote:
On one of my (completely sober and not sarcastic) brain storm sessions about Trek fan films, I actually imagined Jackie Chan playing a strong, silent type of Starfleet admiral and doing a good job of it.

That's a good idea. I think he would do good. Jacky Chan has flexed into drama and historical drama in China and does a good job. I loved him in 1911 (even though it seems I'm the only human being to have liked this movie).

**creeping-deth87**

gorgon wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
tyhe subversion of expectations I think is why so many people bash TLJ myself. Look, star wars will never be a best picture film, ut's not that type of movie, what it is those is comfortable, it uses elements from many of the favorite stories of the past (the whole monomyth) to generate a new story that feels, old, familer, like a pair of comfortable shoes.
Star Wars is, to use a meal analogy, not that fancy novue dish custom crafted by an artisan master chief that combines flavors together in some new and strange cominbation to win awards (55 dollars a plate, portions are tiny!). Star Wars is your box of Mac and Cheese, it's that thing you ate growing up, you know it's not the best thing in the world, but it's comfortable, and sometimes you just want comfortable.

Nope I bash TLJ becuase it is such a awful film, not a bad "Star Wars" film its simply a terrible film - its dull, tedious, badly written, worse directed and with zero interest in characters or plot.

Says the guy who was over the moon for Thor 2, the movie equivalent of store-brand mac and cheese.

Lmao omg... Dude, you're like the biggest DCEU white knight on this board and you're seriously going to take a shot at him for liking Dark World? Get real.

**warboss**

epronovost wrote:
warboss wrote:
On one of my (completely sober and not sarcastic) brain storm sessions about Trek fan films, I actually imagined Jackie Chan playing a strong, silent type of Starfleet admiral and doing a good job of it.

That's a good idea. I think he would do good. Jacky Chan has flexed into drama and historical drama in China and does a good job. I loved him in 1911 (even though it seems I'm the only human being to have liked this movie).

I haven't seen it but I looked forward to him in The Foreigner. The final movie wasn't very good but I was happy with his performance. In regards to my trek daydream, I imagined him to be a quieter Chinese Tywin Lannister in demeanor and tone.

**Voss**

Vulcan wrote:

No reason to bring her back.

Face it, her whole point was to be the foil for Finn. She was his polar opposite. Her role was to be his opponent. Once Finn beat her in TLJ the conflict arc between Finn and Phasma was over, and with the arc over there was no point in shoehorning her into the already overcrowded TROS.

She was his nominal boss and they barely interacted. She wasn't a foil or an opponent. She was a throw away actor who was stuffed into a shiny suit because Game of Thrones. There was never any point to the character. Her falling down a hole in TLJ was a lot less meaningful than random melee stormtrooper flipping out on the traitor in TFA and fulfilled the same narrative purpose less effectively.

**epronovost**

Voss wrote:
Vulcan wrote:

No reason to bring her back.

Face it, her whole point was to be the foil for Finn. She was his polar opposite. Her role was to be his opponent. Once Finn beat her in TLJ the conflict arc between Finn and Phasma was over, and with the arc over there was no point in shoehorning her into the already overcrowded TROS.

She was his nominal boss and they barely interacted. She wasn't a foil or an opponent. She was a throw away actor who was stuffed into a shiny suit because Game of Thrones. There was never any point to the character. Her falling down a hole in TLJ was a lot less meaningful than random melee stormtrooper flipping out on the traitor in TFA and fulfilled the same narrative purpose less effectively.

That's why she will be known as the Boba Fett of the sequel; cool character design and potentially interesting, but in the end completely pointless.

**BrianDavion**

yeah except unlike Boba fett the fanbase doesn't seem to have fallen for the cool char design and the "they're a abd ass we assure you"

**ScarletRose**

BrianDavion wrote:
yeah except unlike Boba fett the fanbase doesn't seem to have fallen for the cool char design and the "they're a abd ass we assure you"

I honestly think that remains to be seen. Stories about Boba Fett didn't come out immediately after Empire Strikes Back, it took some time.

**reds8n**

There is a spot about ten seconds in where the guard closest to the camera has a clean shot at Rey's back and he baseball-swings WELL OVER HER HEAD. She didn't dodge it, he wasn't threatened by either Rey or Kylo Ren, he didn't miss by inches either, we're talking a good two feet or so over her head while her back was turned.

It's pretty clear someone missed their cue on that take, and I'm pretty sure it was Ridley. Not a big deal; this happens all the time when making a big action sequence like this. It takes multiple shots to get it right. But for Rian Johnson to LEAVE IT IN... sheer laziness on his part. Ridiculous.

well maybe.

Or maybe the guys under the control of Snoke/Palpatine didn't kill her as that was kind of the whole point of Palpatine's plan.
Her actually being killed might've thrown a bit of a spanner in the works here eh ?

Same way as the 'troopers on the deathstar aren't incapable of hitting their foes, they want them to get away and killing Han and Co. would scupper things immensely.

Biggest issue I've always had with the Emperor guard types is why they have melee weapons as their primary means of attack at all.

Given the jedi are dead/extinct surely it'd make more sense for them all to be packing master-crafted supedupdethray guns etc etc

Or whatever.

Rule of coll etc etc though eh ?

edit : lost a bunch of text ?

I mean I'm sure it's more likely to be something of an error than a hidden easter egg for those who want to spend ages analyzing choreography, but I still think the fights in this series of films were, generally, better done than any in the original trilogy -- notable exception of Luke and Vader final battle and then only really works when Luke has his epiphany and I much prefer them to those in the prequel trilogy.

But, obvs, MMV.

**Sgt_Smudge**

reds8n wrote:
Or maybe the guys under the control of Snoke/Palpatine didn't kill her as that was kind of the whole point of Palpatine's plan.
Her actually being killed might've thrown a bit of a spanner in the works here eh ?

So why was Snoke goading Kylo into killing Rey, if he didn't want Rey dead? It definitely seems that Snoke didn't intend/expect to die.

So, unless Snoke's guard weren't actually working for Snoke, and were working for Palpatine more directly, why didn't they intervene when Snoke wanted Rey dead at Kylo's hands?

As you say below, it's way way way more likely that it's just bad fight choreography - such sucks in a fight that has some good moments in it (one of the guards rushing to save another from Kylo using his gauntlets as a shield). Actually, it's most of Kylo's fight choreography that is good - his combat scenes I really enjoy watching. For whatever reason, Rey's just doesn't work for me (and no, that's not a comment about women fighting

- quite a few of the SW combat scenes I love the most, from TCW, involve female combatants).

Same way as the 'troopers on the deathstar aren't incapable of hitting their foes, they want them to get away and killing Han and Co. would scupper things immensely.

Why bother sending troops after them in the Death Star at all then?
For what it's worth, I interpret that whole encounter as "quick, let's stop them escaping!" "oh no, they're getting away on board their ship!" "hang on, call off the fighters - why don't we track them instead?" "tarkin, you're a genius!"

Quick, let's make ANOTHER addition to ANH with that scene in!

Biggest issue I've always had with the Emperor guard types is why they have melee weapons as their primary means of attack at all.

Given the jedi are dead/extinct surely it'd make more sense for them all to be packing master-crafted supedupdethray guns etc etc

Or whatever.

Rule of coll etc etc though eh ?

Almost certainly. Could well be ceremonial too. Plus, I *think* they have pistol sidearms, but I'm not so sure on that.

I mean I'm sure it's more likely to be something of an error than a hidden easter egg for those who want to spend ages analyzing choreography, but I still think the fights in this series of films were, generally, better done than any in the original trilogy -- notable exception of Luke and Vader final battle and then only really works when Luke has his epiphany and I much prefer them to those in the prequel trilogy.

But, obvs, MMV.

I prefer the prequel fights a lot more (okay, maybe by Duel of the Fates and any of the ones in RotS), but the best ones are definitely from Clone Wars. So much more emotion, more character displayed in the animation, spectacle, and in many places, far more character driven, such as

Spoiler:

.

**reds8n**

Wasn't Snokes a literal puppet of Palpatine ?

Not SFX wise but actually controlled by him all along ?

So the guards are working for Palpatine.. whether or not they know that of course..... ?

Why bother sending troops after them in the Death Star at all then?
For what it's worth, I interpret that whole encounter as "quick, let's stop them escaping!" "oh no, they're getting away on board their ship!" "hang on, call off the fighters - why don't we track them instead?" "tarkin, you're a genius!"

It's been a LONG time since I read it but I'm reasonably sure i read somewhere or other -- a novel or maybe even a comic book ? -- that their escape was entirely allowed and the fighting was to convince them it was genuine and it also showed quite how... committed ? .. mindless ? .. controlled ? .. the troopers were in following orders like that.

Of course the real question is that if Leia is so sure they were allowed to escape why they -- presumably -- flew straight back to the hidden rebel base rather than, I dunno, stopping off somewhere else and "radioing"/equivalent the Alliance and suggesting they skedaddle pretty sharpish.

One assumes the deathstar file was a bit too large to "email" or whatever , hence the need to physically transport the plans around in a droid/similar.

Of course all of that could well be a later.... addition/retcon to what was going on too.

One would assume, with the best will or pilots in the world, that the TIE fighters that followed the Falcon would've had trouble not doing serious damage.

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/69164/why-is-leia-okay-with-being-tracked-to-yavin

Carrie Fisher's audition tape for "A New Hope" indicates that, at least in that draft, Leia knew they were being tracked, and decided to lure the Death Star to Yavin, as Colin Q. Bang's answer said.

Leia's lines read:

I know they'll follow, and they'll bring the Death Star. Our only hope is to destroy it before it destroys us. Look, hiding is useless now! With the Death Star they'll continue destroying systems until they've found us. We have no alternative but to process the information and use it while there's still time.

then again ti could just be that the initial trilogy were not perhaps terribly well thought out either if one really thinks about it

**epronovost**

BrianDavion wrote:
yeah except unlike Boba fett the fanbase doesn't seem to have fallen for the cool char design and the "they're a abd ass we assure you"

The advantage is that Phasma was actually seen doing some actual fighting on screen for more than two seconds and actually knocked down Finn only to be cheap shoted unlike Boba Fett whose death is the result of a stupid accident. The only thing Phasma need to reach Boba Fett's hight is to have a fanboy or fangirl write books or comics about her.

**Ahtman**

ScarletRose wrote:
Stories about Boba Fett didn't come out immediately after Empire Strikes Back, it took some time.

There was also no world wide web, cell phones, or any other number of innovations that have allowed people to communicate much quicker and easier when the OT came out; the time between something being introduced and discussed is far, far quicker.

**SeanDrake**

epronovost wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
yeah except unlike Boba fett the fanbase doesn't seem to have fallen for the cool char design and the "they're a abd ass we assure you"

The advantage is that Phasma was actually seen doing some actual fighting on screen for more than two seconds and actually knocked down Finn only to be cheap shoted unlike Boba Fett whose death is the result of a stupid accident. The only thing Phasma need to reach Boba Fett's hight is to have a fanboy or fangirl write books or comics about her.

Not really as he said Boba had a char design that caught peoples imagination, Phasma was a shiny chrome storm trooper and a pretty piss poor attempt at a char design. Even if she fought for a few moments she was still just a faceless mook whose main claim to fame was the actress being in GoT.

**Sgt_Smudge**

reds8n wrote: Wasn't Snokes a literal puppet of Palpatine ?

Not SFX wise but actually controlled by him all along ?

So the guards are working for Palpatine.. whether or not they know that of course..... ?

Not sure if Snoke was literally being controlled by Palpatine. Honestly, the only connection we seem to have, as far as I remember, is just those Snoke-clones in Palpatine's lair on Exogol.

But, if Snoke WAS being controlled by Palpatine - why was he asking Kylo to kill Rey?

That's my problem with the whole "they knew all along to keep Rey alive!" - they don't try swaying her to the Dark Side. Snoke just sees her as an obstacle to wiping out the Resistance and Luke Skywalker. They try to execute her aboard Snoke's flagship.

I know Star Wars films aren't narratively watertight, and if you go digging, you can easily find inconsistencies and plot holes and stupid decisions by characters (your Leia example is a good one!). However, this is one of those issues that you don't really need to go digging to think "hang on, what?"

Again, easier to chalk it up to bad choreography.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

SeanDrake wrote:
epronovost wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
yeah except unlike Boba fett the fanbase doesn't seem to have fallen for the cool char design and the "they're a abd ass we assure you"

The advantage is that Phasma was actually seen doing some actual fighting on screen for more than two seconds and actually knocked down Finn only to be cheap shoted unlike Boba Fett whose death is the result of a stupid accident. The only thing Phasma need to reach Boba Fett's hight is to have a fanboy or fangirl write books or comics about her.

Not really as he said Boba had a char design that caught peoples imagination, Phasma was a shiny chrome storm trooper and a pretty piss poor attempt at a char design. Even if she fought for a few moments she was still just a faceless mook whose main claim to fame was the actress being in GoT.

I dunno, Phasma had some pretty cool design. The pike, the shoulder cloak - even had she not been Christie, I'd still think she was pretty cool looking. My only wishes are that we got a better idea of her ranking/station within the First Order (are all First Order Captains dressed like that? Is she a unique Captain? Is she the ONLY Captain?) and that she actually has more of a personal stake/connection, or that it just gets played up more.

I just didn't want another Boba Fett.

**reds8n**

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Snoke

Secretly an artificial creation of Darth Sidious, Snoke was engineered on Exegol, a legendary Sith-affiliated planet hidden in the Unknown Regions, where loyalists of the Sith Eternal awaited the return of the Sith.

......

Ultimately, Snoke's entire existence was built for this moment: to serve as a final test for Ren. He not only tested Ren's worthiness as a disciple, but also his capacity to inherit the Sith legacy. His role had been designed by the Sith Eternal cultists to act as a final crucible, to groom and mold Ren into a master of attack and cunning. Ren became the new Supreme Leader of the First Order, but after encountering a revived Sidious on Snoke's homeworld of Exegol, he aspired to rule the galaxy as Emperor of the Final Order.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Leader_Snoke

In the context of the story, Snoke was created by Palpatine.[39] According to The Rise of Skywalker: The Visual Dictionary (2019), Snoke's physical appearance was purposefully designed by Palpatine to ensure his species remained unidentifiable.[1] Furthermore, Snoke's reluctance to meet in person with his First Order underlings helped conceal the fact that he was an artificial being.[1] General Pryde was one of the few characters who knew Snoke was subservient to a higher power (Palpatine).[
The Rise of Skywalker (2019)
Main article: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker
In The Rise of Skywalker, Kylo Ren finds several clones resembling Snoke at Palpatine's lair on the Sith world Exegol. Snoke's voice is briefly used by Palpatine when talking to Ren.[44] It is revealed that Palpatine had created Snoke as a puppet to lure Ren towards the dark side, and to reclaim the galaxy through the First Order.[39]

Related works
Snoke appears in the 2015 novelization of The Force Awakens by Alan Dean Foster.[45] In the novel, Leia tells Han in more detail how Snoke, aware that their son would be "strong with the Force" and possess "equal potential for good or evil", had long watched Ben and manipulated events to draw him to the dark side.[46] An unplayable Lego minifigure version of Snoke appears in cutscenes in the 2016 video game Lego Star Wars: The Force Awakens. In the spring of 2018, Snoke was added to the mobile MOBA Star Wars: Force Arena as a playable Dark Side squad leader.[47] Canon works reveal that Snoke acquired Palpatine's Senate office.[16]

Prior to the release of The Rise of Skywalker, the 2019 comic book Star Wars: Age of Resistance – Supreme Leader Snoke implied a direct connection between Snoke and Palpatine. In the book, Snoke speaks of Luke Skywalker to Kylo Ren, stating, "If I had your uncle by my side instead of you, the galaxy would have been mine a long time ago"

TBF though the visual guide has all sorts of odd stuff :

Spoiler:

Literally a hero of the resistance but hey-ho !

**Sgt_Smudge**

Ugh, apolitical Chewbacca.

His species has been enslaved, what, three times in his lifetime alone? He fought in brutal wars against both droid and stormtrooper occupation. He's seen the direct impact of the power the Empire can have (Alderaan) and the First Order (Hosnian Prime). He's watched his best friends killed, frozen, betrayed, and outcast all around him. How on earth could Chewbacca be apolitical?

"Well, yes, my people were enslaved and used for labour by the Empire. Oh, I don't really mind. No, I'm not involved in politics, why do you ask?" - Chewbacca, without the arrrrrrrgh-ing.

**Ahtman**

"There are fine people on both sides" - Chewbacca

**Vulcan**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Are you suggesting Disney hire Jackie Chan and Cynthia Rothrock for the next Star Wars movie? Because that's not a bad suggestion.

Either one would do a better job than... whoever worked on TLJ.

It's worth noting, there is no head fight choreographer for TLJ listed in the credits. There's an ASSISTANT listed, but no head. Which makes me wonder if the head fight choreographer demanded his name be removed when RJ cut filming the big fights short, WELL before getting even a half-decent shot in the can.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ScarletRose wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
yeah except unlike Boba fett the fanbase doesn't seem to have fallen for the cool char design and the "they're a abd ass we assure you"

I honestly think that remains to be seen. Stories about Boba Fett didn't come out immediately after Empire Strikes Back, it took some time.

The reason Boba Fett got so much love from the fans comes down to one thing. Vader had to pointedly tell him "No disintigrations." And Fett's response? Utter nonchalance. When you can act THAT calm when the Dark Lord of the Sith scolds you, there's a story worth hearing there.

And wouldn't it be nice if we eventually got to see it?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

reds8n wrote:
Of course the real question is that if Leia is so sure they were allowed to escape why they -- presumably -- flew straight back to the hidden rebel base rather than, I dunno, stopping off somewhere else and "radioing"/equivalent the Alliance and suggesting they skedaddle pretty sharpish.

It's worth remembering just how small the Yavin base was. A dozen or so snub fighters and their ground crew under the command of General Dodonna. How much MORE stuff do we see when the Empire overruns the (at the time) primary rebel base on Hoth? Quite a bit, as I recall. Several freighters worth, anyway.

So... I'd bet Yavin was one of many satellite bases. Leia took them there because a) they would have had the gear to decode the Death Star plans, b) had a small strike force with which to - hopefully - exploit any flaws found, and c) worst comes to worst, they load R2 onto an X-wing with a trusted pilot and send him off to the main Rebellion base while the Empire blows up this relatively minor base.

Of course, this is 'after the fact' analysis that doesn't hold water until after ESB...

**epronovost**

Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Ugh, apolitical Chewbacca.

His species has been enslaved, what, three times in his lifetime alone? He fought in brutal wars against both droid and stormtrooper occupation. He's seen the direct impact of the power the Empire can have (Alderaan) and the First Order (Hosnian Prime). He's watched his best friends killed, frozen, betrayed, and outcast all around him. How on earth could Chewbacca be apolitical?

"Well, yes, my people were enslaved and used for labour by the Empire. Oh, I don't really mind. No, I'm not involved in politics, why do you ask?" - Chewbacca, without the arrrrrrrgh-ing.

I suppose they thought being apolitical was a quality. Someone forgot that the balance fallacy is...well...fallacious.

**reds8n**

Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Ugh, apolitical Chewbacca.

His species has been enslaved, what, three times in his lifetime alone? He fought in brutal wars against both droid and stormtrooper occupation. He's seen the direct impact of the power the Empire can have (Alderaan) and the First Order (Hosnian Prime). He's watched his best friends killed, frozen, betrayed, and outcast all around him. How on earth could Chewbacca be apolitical?

"Well, yes, my people were enslaved and used for labour by the Empire. Oh, I don't really mind. No, I'm not involved in politics, why do you ask?" - Chewbacca, without the arrrrrrrgh-ing.

Fiscally he's conservative though.

Empire/First Order both pro very low tax rates so...

.. if only they'd given him a medal with Han and Luke ...

Incidentally :

That was what was given to him when they got back and found out about Leia's death right ?

Or was it something else ?

I know that over the years in books, comics etc it had been clarified that he had indeed been honoured and the reason we hadn't seen it was for ...reasons from the ridiculous to the sublime.

Justice !

Spoiler:

**Backfire**

Mr Morden wrote:

Yeah "Critics" praised it and then cashed their check.

Guess critic bribing budget was cut for TRoS, huh.

Critics liked TLJ because it was distinctly different from earlier installments, had powerful emotional moments and well-set up climatic scenes, presented a new, more mystical take on Force and had defined character arc for main protagonist. This was in strong contrast with TFA, which was well done and evenly paced movie but very soulless, flat, took no risks, corporate committee work at its best and worst. Critics were not hardcore fans and did not care whether Holdo maneuver made any kind of sense in-universe, or whether Luke even briefly contemplating killing his student while he was asleep was in-character, or whether it was even remotely plausible that one X-Wing could clear out turrets from a dreadnought sized ships.

For me, movie is usually as good as its best scenes. If the movie has scenes I want to seek out from Youtube and watch again just to relive the moment, it counts as a success in my books, glass half full. TLJ had plenty of stuff done bad and the weird four-act pacing deflated the end of movie somewhat. But it still had good scenes which I would want to watch again. TFA doesn't. Prequels mostly don't. TRoS, iffy.

**BrianDavion**

the bit about chewie being apolitical I always saw as being intended to mean more "he has opinions and views, but generally when he gets involved it's because of his friends, he doesn't fight for abstract concepts, he fights for his friends" and yeah thats NOT apolitical but sometimes words get misused.

**Sgt_Smudge**

BrianDavion wrote:
the bit about chewie being apolitical I always saw as being intended to mean more "he has opinions and views, but generally when he gets involved it's because of his friends, he doesn't fight for abstract concepts, he fights for his friends" and yeah thats NOT apolitical but sometimes words get misused.

I mean, that's still paints him a pretty bad light.

"These guys blow up planets and kill countless millions/billions of people. But I'm not fighting them because of that, I'm fighting them because my friends don't like them, and I'll do whatever they tell me to."

While that's interesting concept for an anti-hero style character, it makes the 'hero of the Rebellion' Chewbacca into a bit of a dick, and not really a heroic figure at all.

Han Solo is only in it for the money *at the start*, but even he has a change of heart and comes back because fighting the Empire is the "good" thing to do, and by the end, he's full on in it for the cause. But apparently Chewbacca's just following along with Han for all of this, and doesn't really feel anything strong about the Empire/First Order.

**Voss**

It sadly fits with their backstory for the new trilogy. Han wants to abandon family and friends and go smuggle illegal monsters? Chewie is down for that.

Ignore the First Order and just putter around? That's fine too.