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Yeah, old kits are not coming back. GW won't re-launch a major IP with a bunch of decade old plastic.

Square bases aren't coming back either. If ranked formations do make a comeback, it's going to be in the form of LotR style movement trays.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Yeah, old kits are not coming back. GW won't re-launch a major IP with a bunch of decade old plastic.

Square bases aren't coming back either. If ranked formations do make a comeback, it's going to be in the form of LotR style movement trays.

I can only agree with that! Looking how they do mouvement tray for 40K Apocalypse... i won't ben suprised they do the kind of same format for R&F units for Old World battle. I made some in 3D print which allow me to play 9th Age as much as AOS... I allow GW to steal my idea loll

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Yeah, old kits are not coming back. GW won't re-launch a major IP with a bunch of decade old plastic.

It's not just that; in 3 years time or so AoS will have had a load of new kits released. Both new armies and also updates to existing ones. So those dated kits would start to look really dated. Plus a 3 year development window fits ideally with the concept of GW making new models from the ground up. If it were just rules and some movement trays and such GW could achieve that in far less time.

Of course we might get some one-week legacy releases alongside it; though whenever GW does them they tend to be metal only.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Yeah, old kits are not coming back. GW won't re-launch a major IP with a bunch of decade old plastic.

Square bases aren't coming back either. If ranked formations do make a comeback, it's going to be in the form of LotR style movement trays.

The preview to the news literally focussed on a square base. Whatever the re-release will entail, that only makes sense if it included, well, things on square bases.

plessiez wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
If it does wind up being a ranked unit game, and if it does stay the same scale, there will be minimal model crossover from AoS, for the simple reason that AoS models haven't been designed to rank up.

That was one of the design constraints from WHFB that moving up loose formations was able to address.

For the last decade half the bloody WHFB models didn’t rank up either.

Just look at the new Slaves to Darkness models. There’s no way they’re going back to static models like the old chaos warriors. And if they did who would buy them over the new ones? GW are too proud of their quality. This isn’t the same as pushing old stuff out through toy shops to kids. I just can’t see them proudly re-releasing a bunch of 7 year old kits in 3 years time.

You say that like nobody prefers a coherent, uniform block of infantry to a bunch of leaping ACTION POSE MOTHAF***A numpties balanced on a toe or a gigantic Tactical Rock or huge streamers of cloth/paper/etc.

Obviously that's a bit facetious(for one, I like the new Warriors - as Chosen), but you're saying "quality" as if the modern style is objectively superior, and that's simply nonsense. Regardless, not producing things in leapy action poses doesn't necessary mean they have to re-release the old kits - they have the CAD files for those new Warriors now, they can repose them to rank up properly on squares in a couple of days of work, though I'm not convinced they would where the old kit molds are still viable.

 Elbows wrote:

This is, in a nutshell, why I don't care at all about this announcement. Despite being interested in WFB...I could never afford or stomach buying an army back in the day. With GW's current prices? Absolutely out of the question. Within 2-3 years we'll be looking at $60 as a standard price for 10 models. A "regiment" of 30 Empire spearmen? That could be a $180 purchase which is fething insane for a wargame.

I honestly believe that if Warhammer: Old World is a game with units of ranked infantry, the models will be sold in boxes of 20 or more this time. Selling infantry in boxes of 10 for inflated price was one of the stupidest decisions in history of WHFB and certainly played a big part in its doom. I don't think that GW is going to make the same mistake again (though it is almost certain that they will make new, different mistakes).

AoS has had some new models in units of 20 (Bloodreavers, Kairic Acolytes and Mortek Guard) and none of them are stupidly overpriced.

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

The preview to the news literally focussed on a square base. Whatever the re-release will entail, that only makes sense if it included, well, things on square bases.

Because historically, WFB and square bases were synonymous in the GW ecosystem.

Look, GW did not remove the base difference between fantasy Warhammer and every other game they support only to bring it back for the sake of nostalgia while simultaneously splitting what they clearly want to be a shared model line. Trays let them have their cake and eat it.

jullevi wrote:

 Elbows wrote:

This is, in a nutshell, why I don't care at all about this announcement. Despite being interested in WFB...I could never afford or stomach buying an army back in the day. With GW's current prices? Absolutely out of the question. Within 2-3 years we'll be looking at $60 as a standard price for 10 models. A "regiment" of 30 Empire spearmen? That could be a $180 purchase which is fething insane for a wargame.

I honestly believe that if Warhammer: Old World is a game with units of ranked infantry, the models will be sold in boxes of 20 or more this time. Selling infantry in boxes of 10 for inflated price was one of the stupidest decisions in history of WHFB and certainly played a big part in its doom. I don't think that GW is going to make the same mistake again (though it is almost certain that they will make new, different mistakes).

AoS has had some new models in units of 20 (Bloodreavers, Kairic Acolytes and Mortek Guard) and none of them are stupidly overpriced.

Also depends entirely on how they scale the game in terms of what a desirable army/unit size is.

Waaaaay back, it was pretty small. But as time went on, and collections grew, so did the scope and minimum size of the game.

This is a real opportunity to redress (pun!).

Hell, I can potentially see them expanding the R&F appeal with specific ‘rear rank models’. Sell those as say, sets of 15, and command sets of 5/10, and you’re laughing. After all, once everyone is ranked up, you don’t really see the filler models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Have started a feedback/brain tank thread in the WHFB Legacy board. Aim is to gather feedback on previous editions (likes and dislikes), so if peeps find stuff they agree with they can feed it back to GW.

Dunno if it’ll bare fruit, but if we don’t ask we defo don’t get!

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Yeah, old kits are not coming back. GW won't re-launch a major IP with a bunch of decade old plastic.

Square bases aren't coming back either. If ranked formations do make a comeback, it's going to be in the form of LotR style movement trays.

Yeah because making square bases an integral part of their marketing effort shouts 'NO SQUARE BASES!'

Londinium wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Yeah, old kits are not coming back. GW won't re-launch a major IP with a bunch of decade old plastic.

Square bases aren't coming back either. If ranked formations do make a comeback, it's going to be in the form of LotR style movement trays.

Yeah because making square bases an integral part of their marketing effort shouts 'NO SQUARE BASES!'

I think you are dead wrong.
They use ”square bases” to make a point about a retro brand/setting coming back.
You probably wont see neither WFB nor square bases.

It’s so over the top to think it will be movement trays over the square bases they’ve already (The only thing) shown.


And again, yes it may be a new game and not WHFB itself sure, but it’s going to be 28mm. For sure.
There is no way it won’t be.
This is something for an existing fan base, as well as any new etc,
I mean that’s GW all over anyway, look at nearly every game system, that’s their thing.
(Imagine the fallout of finally bringing the Old World back and then not doing it in a way anyone who is already interested can’t partake unless from scratch.
A lot worse than upsetting a few random “oh I thought it would be 15mm for no reason” people etc).

Though I can’t remember where but regarding the comment of this won’t work unless they make models for use in both settings, dual use as it were.
There’s no need for that, and half of the stuff coming out for AoS just wouldn’t make sense.
If anything, this can make GW move further away from the older stuff for AoS, as it won’t upset people as much as OW may get those instead etc

What does GW mean by "square bases and the Old World is back!"? AoS it the best it has ever been since its debut, and many people think it's actually superior to 40K now. Will GW really make another fantasy miniatures game to directly compete with AoS? It will be interesting to see how this develops.

Revenue streams, my friend. Revenue streams.

AoS is the bread winner GW wanted. And they’ve so much cash on hand, resurrecting WHFB is pretty low risk for them.

A Rank & File old-World themed Game is not in direct competition with a Mass-Skirmish Low-Fantasy/Steampunk game
Same as Kill Team is not in competition with Necromunda


Why should there be dual use models?
Because Necromunda and Blood Bowl have dual-use models for 40k/AoS?

Why should it be the original scale?
Because Necromunda and Blood Bowl kept the original scale with the re-release?

GW/FW is yet starting with it, so we cannot know what they are planning to do.
But we know what they have done with other games that were re-released.

So we will see a slightly different scale, with slightly different but all new designed models and following old rules with minor adjustments

Yeah it will be in direct competition with things like KoW, and the free community made versions.
(Look at BB coming back. Had a huge following and the LRB free etc..
If they can make money from something they will)

wrong topic

 kodos wrote:
A Rank & File old-World themed Game is not in direct competition with a Mass-Skirmish Low-Fantasy/Steampunk game
Same as Kill Team is not in competition with Necromunda


Why should there be dual use models?
Because Necromunda and Blood Bowl have dual-use models for 40k/AoS?

Why should it be the original scale?
Because Necromunda and Blood Bowl kept the original scale with the re-release?

GW/FW is yet starting with it, so we cannot know what they are planning to do.
But we know what they have done with other games that were re-released.

So we will see a slightly different scale, with slightly different but all new designed models and following old rules with minor adjustments

Hits the nail squarely on the head for me, the company seem quite keen to investigate in as many money making opportunities as possible and aren't shy of rummaging around the vaults for the ol' IPs. And why not? AoS is successful and established now. Even I like it and hated how the 'End Times' transitioned into AoS. That said, I LOVE the 'Old World' and I can't be the only one.

Lenton allegedly has more capacity nowadays so let's chase a different/new/nostalgic audience. Creative Assembly/Warhammer: Total War will have helped brand recognition loads in the past few years to boot, as well as other, probably not quite so good tie-ins.

That Goblin Underworld band shows that they've still got it when it comes to gorgeous ol' world aesthetic. Bring it on!

Agreed 100

 kodos wrote:
So we will see a slightly different scale, with slightly different but all new designed models and following old rules with minor adjustments

The reveal blurb makes it pretty clear that neWFB is meant to be the Horus Heresy of AoS, which implies consistent scaling and roughly compatible, or at least similar, rules sets.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Yeah, old kits are not coming back. GW won't re-launch a major IP with a bunch of decade old plastic.

Square bases aren't coming back either. If ranked formations do make a comeback, it's going to be in the form of LotR style movement trays.

Aren't they using the old molds for the Middle Earth Battle game and then just adding extras on top? A lot of the kits where still pretty decent.- its more likely they would use the old range. as a basis and add to it rather than bring out entirely new ranges for each factions. Unless you want to wait forever to get all the factions out. It gives them a freer range to replace the kits that really need replacing/added too without having to cover everything in a relatively short period of time.

 silverstu wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Yeah, old kits are not coming back. GW won't re-launch a major IP with a bunch of decade old plastic.

Square bases aren't coming back either. If ranked formations do make a comeback, it's going to be in the form of LotR style movement trays.

Aren't they using the old molds for the Middle Earth Battle game and then just adding extras on top? A lot of the kits where still pretty decent.- its more likely they would use the old range. as a basis and add to it rather than bring out entirely new ranges for each factions. Unless you want to wait forever to get all the factions out. It gives them a freer range to replace the kits that really need replacing/added too without having to cover everything in a relatively short period of time.

It may be why it’s some time off, getting new kits up and ready as a base to start from. Done right and starting each faction off with one troop one elite and one hero in a starter box for everyone, with a couple of things each month from there would be a great way to build it up.
First book could be border skirmish type missions for 250 to 750 points.
Second book is 750 to 1500 and then a 3rd at 1500 to 3000. Get interest, and give everyone a chance to jump on board. Since getting a new game started in a group is super tough. When you have players sitting on the fence waiting for a race they previously loved to even get a thought.

If it’s something like mordheim, make sure warbands can truly be custom. Fill in some of the ballance gaps and weirdness. And it’s good !

I don't think LotR is a particularly good gauge of what GW want to do with WFB. Regardless of its recent revival, it will always be the least loved child, which means being dead last in line for new plastics.

It would be interesting if they created "Unit models" Large square bases 150mm x100mm + in size, with multiple models on it that you would only need to buy one of. Similar to that "KATAKROS, MORTARCH OF THE NECROPOLIS" model they have just released and an extension of what we saw in 8th when people wanted to bulk out their units without buying 10 of the same box.

They would be built like mini dioramas with a larger "leader", bannerman etc and several "troops" on it but the entire thing would act as a single model. Would take damage in a tiered manner similar to the large models currently. Would allow for incredibly dynamic modelling opportunities.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
The reveal blurb makes it pretty clear that neWFB is meant to be the Horus Heresy of AoS, which implies consistent scaling and roughly compatible, or at least similar, rules sets.

I think that's reading a bit much into it. The Horus Heresy comparison is to do with the link between the backgrounds of HH and 40K, WHFB and AoS. It implies nothing about the actual miniatures or rules. Particularly since HH no longer uses the same ruleset as 40K.

 Hollow wrote:
It would be interesting if they created "Unit models" Large square bases 150mm x100mm + in size, with multiple models on it that you would only need to buy one of. Similar to that "KATAKROS, MORTARCH OF THE NECROPOLIS" model they have just released and an extension of what we saw in 8th when people wanted to bulk out their units without buying 10 of the same box.

They would be built like mini dioramas with a larger "leader", bannerman etc and several "troops" on it but the entire thing would act as a single model. Would take damage in a tiered manner similar to the large models currently. Would allow for incredibly dynamic modelling opportunities.

Which is possible and would follow the approach of CMON's SoIaF game. You buy the unit box, it has the models for the unit, with champion/banner. Paint up the 10 models, and off you go. SoIaF seems to be doing ok.

This approach, I think, would directly challenge that and Kings of War, not that either seems particularly huge atm.

Of course, three years out will have me forgetting about it until then. My Bretonnians have been waiting patiently, participating in Legacy battles since AoS, and they will continue to do so until we see how this shakes out.

 Hollow wrote:
It would be interesting if they created "Unit models" Large square bases 150mm x100mm + in size, with multiple models on it that you would only need to buy one of. Similar to that "KATAKROS, MORTARCH OF THE NECROPOLIS" model they have just released and an extension of what we saw in 8th when people wanted to bulk out their units without buying 10 of the same box

So basically using the one feature from Kings of War, a lot of former Warhammer players give as a reason why they don't like that game

People crying on the internet isn't worth much when KOW is going onto its 3rd edition.

Alternatively, we could try not dismissing opinions different to our own as 'people crying on the internet'.


For me, WHFB retaining the idea that the individual models matter is key. Going down the KoW route with units being a set size and never taking casualties would be a non-starter.

 insaniak wrote:
Alternatively, we could try not dismissing opinions different to our own as 'people crying on the internet'.


For me, WHFB retaining the idea that the individual models matter is key. Going down the KoW route with units being a set size and never taking casualties would be a non-starter.

Yeah, its why I never got into KoW. I didn't like how you didn't have soldiers, you just had big squares banging into other squares.

I've been thinking about this a lot and here's a few of my ideas.

It's called Warhammer: The Old World. It mentions the mighty battles that shaped the old world. I think the new game will focus solely on the Old World and it's safe to assume we can rule out Nippon and Albion. The article makes parallels to HH...maybe we can expect a focus on historic, pivotal, MASSED battles that shaped the Old World and it's history. So just a few off the top of my head: Hel Fenn, Blackfire Pass, The Siege of Prauge, that sort of battle. So I expect Battle Set/Game Sets that feature two or more armies paired up to represent a historic battle between two powers. A rule book will also accompany all this so if you can battle the different army groups against each other. I'm betting on a 'Ravening Hoards' type army book.

This raises some interesting ideas. Like a siege of Prauge army set might include Empire, dwarven, and elven elements. The chaos side might would include Slaves, beasts ,and daemons. It wouldn't matter if you wanted to battle the Elves from the Sundering against the Empire from Hel Fenn in a later timeline as fashion and wargear are pretty static across the Warhammer Fantasy Battle Timeline. Unless it's Ancient Empire battling Nagash, but this is doubtful in my mind as Nagash plays such a big role in AoS. As to the models themselves, I'm hoping 28 mm but mono pose with only basic decoration and little variation. So basically 4th edition plastic kits with commands and a bit more variation. I'm not expecting many new huge character kits. We have Karl F, Malekith, and the whole gang. Not sure what to expect as far as new kits beyond the battle games themselves.

I'm hoping the boxes are huge. Basicly a 2000 pt game in one box. Or maybe they release three boxes for each epic battle. So the Siege of Prauge would be a dwarves vs beastman boxed game, an elves vs daemons boxed game, and an empire vs warriors boxed game. They could all include nifty scenery bits. Then they release a limited run, super special Magnus the Pious model to accompany them. Something for the other side obviously. To supplement we have the existing models in the AoS ranges and whatever else they release or they come up with. I'm hoping/betting against new concepts for the armies. No Woodelven Bear Riders or Empire Steam War bikes. I am hoping for heritage model lines to be reimagined or reproduced. Like Kislev for example.
On a personal note, I hope when Vampire Counts are redone this time around they give them some conventional war machines. Why does everything have to be powered by a damned soul or made of bones? Would it not be reasonable to expect zombie crewed warmachines? Maybe not black powder ones but at least medieval level war machines. Not just: 1.) nothing, and, 2.) a cart full of dead bodies pulled by a necromancer. Also skeleton crossbow men. yeah.

Anyway thanks for reading.

Long live the grassy fields of Averland!

tl;dr- Pure Speculation. New Warhammer, Old World Only. Battle sets representing massed historical battles. Empire Vs. Vampires for the Battle of Hel Fenn etc. New line models simple and monopose. Few new conceptual sets or models. New mega characters like Magnus the Pious. Zombie Trebuchets*, hopefully.

*so my idea was that a huge trebuchet crewed by skeles hurled a ball of zombies at the enemy. It landed, splashed, reassembled, and stumbled forward. It could then be enlarged by necromancers. Also I liked the idea of the trebuchet crew leader to be a ghost maybe, or a wight.