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 lord_blackfang wrote:
Ho boy. So it's really happening. Empire civil war. Human subfactions with different hat feathers that will only sell to 7 hypergrognards.

Let it go
Let it go
Turn away and slam the door....

Awesome new images - very pleased.

The map is really beautifully done

OOH! Esp with GW's current mount sculpting this could be an epic army indeed!

If they didn't tell me those are supposed to be Kislev designs, I'd assume they're meant for AoS. And I would be able to tell if the faction is human or elf either.

Don't get me wrong, I like AoS, but the cover for the recent Cities of Sigmar battletome looked more Old World than this.

In this instance, it's also a unit that we never saw before. Kislev never really got a huge amount of exploration despite the prevalence it played with the Empire and Chaos lore.

With that said? The scalemail seems to be drawing upon the design that the Winged Lancers had. Without the weapon designs for context, I can understand the issue.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Ho boy. So it's really happening. Empire civil war. Human subfactions with different hat feathers that will only sell to 7 hypergrognards.

Let it go
Let it go
Turn away and slam the door....

That lines up with some hopes and partially with expectations expressed earllier in the thread!

But...

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
I wonder how long it takes for the moaning to start about the bows being unrealistic and the arrows having ice heads? (both i really like by the way)

Honestly, yeah, kind of. I like the humans to by and large be ordinary humans equipped with ordinary weapons. Magic and magical weapons are rare. An entire unit equipped with with all kinds of magical ice weaponry is already too much for me. Old Kislev was great because they were some of the staunchest hardiest folks around, resolute despite the constant threat of Chaos invasions. That becomes rather less impressive if entire units can be outfitted with amazing ice magic gear. With AoS being an outlet for the more outlandish magicy things, I had hoped the returning Old World would have the more toned down style.

They also had two iconic cavalry units in their Ungol Horse Archers and Kislevite Winged Lancers.

Poor Gryphon Legion...

In an ideal world they would have both AOS and WFB profiles

Oh. This is potentially clever.

Do this right, and they can do some Total Warhammer 3 crossover and launch the Kislev faction off the back of some tasty, tasty cross promotion.


---
I do hope people remember that the Kislev 'Ice Tsarina' and Lore of Ice Magic predates Frozen by a decade or more.
I'd expect 'but Frozen did it first' from people unfamiliar with the game, but it sounds like 'Warhammer is just copying Warcraft' complaints from people who should be familiar with the setting.

Take a moment to read the accompanying piece:

One new unit that’s in the early stages of development is set in the Ice Court – the seat of the ruling Tsar or Tsarina. Known as the Ice Guard, they’re an elite fighting formation of warrior women, equally skilled with bow and blade. But where they differ significantly from the other Kislevite units we’ve seen in the past is that they’re able to channel the elemental magic of their realm in a similar manner to their Ice Queen – the most powerful practitioner of this unique form of sorcery. Here are some awesome pieces of concept art for the Ice Guard, courtesy of Forge World’s Mark Bedford.

The Ice Guard are, effectively, a Kislevite version of the Sisters of Avelorn concept that we had for the High Elves and Alarielle. They're a whole new unit that does not change the rest of the Kislevite lore.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Ho boy. So it's really happening. Empire civil war. Human subfactions with different hat feathers that will only sell to 7 hypergrognards.

Let it go
Let it go
Turn away and slam the door....

I was just thinking someone must've watched Frozen II six times...

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
I wonder how long it takes for the moaning to start about the bows being unrealistic and the arrows having ice heads? (both i really like by the way)

Differing opinion haver...sorry, "moaner" reporting in

For real though, impressive - complaining about even the idea of complaints potentially happening in the future, an exciting new development in the field of White Knightery. Perhaps with a programme of serious R&D we might reach the stage of complaining about the very concept of complaining and so observe the first Hypocrisy Singularity forming.

Snark aside, it's hard to draw much of a conclusion from such small snippets of info, but interpreted uncharitably it could be considered a bit concerning for those hoping TOW would be a return to a slightly more...restrained(as much as a world like Warhammer can be anyway) version of the IP. The feel coming off those concepts is very 8th Edition-y with that era's ultra-high-magic approach to things, and I was very much hoping for a more 6th Edition-y tone. It rather depends whether they're showing these along with the classic models in order to imply the new concept is a special rare thing that's being *added*, or in order to contrast the "boring" old models with the Super Dope Ice Quweeeeen Badass Ladies with the intent the latter style will come to define the faction. So yeah, it doesn't really tell us much beyond the specific concept, which is...fine? Like I say, a bit "8th-y" in terms of the design but there's nothing about the basic idea that's hideously out of place - I'd have been a lot more confident about the direction TOW is going in if our first look was at the new version of one of those classic Kislev units.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Take a moment to read the accompanying piece:

One new unit that’s in the early stages of development is set in the Ice Court – the seat of the ruling Tsar or Tsarina. Known as the Ice Guard, they’re an elite fighting formation of warrior women, equally skilled with bow and blade. But where they differ significantly from the other Kislevite units we’ve seen in the past is that they’re able to channel the elemental magic of their realm in a similar manner to their Ice Queen – the most powerful practitioner of this unique form of sorcery. Here are some awesome pieces of concept art for the Ice Guard, courtesy of Forge World’s Mark Bedford.

The Ice Guard are, effectively, a Kislevite version of the Sisters of Avelorn concept that we had for the High Elves and Alarielle. They're a whole new unit that does not change the rest of the Kislevite lore.

Addition is absolutely a form of change. When you add a new ingredient to the stew the flavour of the whole thing changes, whether for good or ill.

Same, I’m hoping for earlier renditions with less massive models and a more subdued bleak feeling of earlier editions. For example, a scenario I’d say is a classic of WHFB is the undead horde raiding a village with ragtag defenders scraped together to repel them. If they can do something that does that justice without needing to wheel out the war altar or steam tank to deal with 100 skeletons then I’ll be pleased...

That feels like misconstruing an old WHFB Skirmish scenario with the whole of WHFB.

 Kanluwen wrote:
In this instance, it's also a unit that we never saw before. Kislev never really got a huge amount of exploration despite the prevalence it played with the Empire and Chaos lore.

The Warmaster, Mordheim and 6th ed WHFB lists are fairly limited, but there is a full armylist spread over 3 Citadel Journals (14-16) from the mid nineties, written by Tuomas Pirinen. Included some suggested conversions for the models; not even some of the later metals were of course released at this date. No idea how official that makes it, but I've always taken it as canon unless in conflict with later publications.

 Kanluwen wrote:
That feels like misconstruing an old WHFB Skirmish scenario with the whole of WHFB.

The point I failed to make is I hope they bring some of the emphasis that 6th placed on the poor bloody infantry and less on massive monsters or war machines. As said, Teclis shouldn’t be rocking up to deal with a bunch of dark elf pirates, etc


Though I did enjoy the hero hammer 4th/5th editions...

 Kanluwen wrote:
That feels like misconstruing an old WHFB Skirmish scenario with the whole of WHFB.

The point is that WHF used to pitch its tone so that those kinds of "WHFB Skirmish scenarios" was the majority of the conflict that took place in the setting, and the huge world-shaking megaconflicts were occasional events that had occurred in the past and were being built up to happen again in an indeterminate future of the players' own choosing. Some of us were kind of hoping that TOW would see a return to that tone given AoS now has the ultra-high-magic-catastrofantasy niche pretty well covered.

 zedmeister wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
That feels like misconstruing an old WHFB Skirmish scenario with the whole of WHFB.

The point I failed to make is I hope they bring some of the emphasis that 6th placed on the poor bloody infantry and less on massive monsters or war machines. As said, Teclis shouldn’t be rocking up to deal with a bunch of dark elf pirates, etc

By that same vein, the point that I was replying to was more the idea of "ragtag defenders" or "the undead horde raiding a village".

That kind of thing wasn't exactly the norm any more than "Teclis showing up to deal with a bunch of dark elf pirates". At least with Teclis, you have the reasonable explanation of "he saw it coming with magic" and "dark elf pirates liked to go after the Tower of Hoeth".

We never really had "undead hordes raiding a village" except in those kinds of Skirmish scenarios, where the intention was to pit a small force of something like Ghouls versus Empire Militia and/or State Troops with rules in play for recycling the Ghouls.

Not a fan of those ice weapons, but the unit itself isn't too bad.

Still, I would've hoped for some new mounted archers or winged lancers instead, you know, the iconic Kislevite units. Looking forward for more snippets.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Ho boy. So it's really happening. Empire civil war. Human subfactions with different hat feathers that will only sell to 7 hypergrognards.

Yeah, I'm sure the appeal is limited exclusively to people who used to play WHFB and do not play AoS. NO ONE will buy them for use in AoS, KoW, Conquest, Frostgrave, or any other game. And not a single current AoS player will be interested in playing both games. Truly, this will be an incredibly niche release, even more than Horus Heresy, which was so unpopular it became the majority of FW releases. *eyeroll*

That would be 3rd Edition to 6th edition, and it was awesome.

I too hope for the Old World in all its bleak, normal glory. The old world of Geheimnisnacht, before Gotrek was a terrifying, end of the world surviving monster. Goblins and peasants stabbing each other in the mud with crude spears while the corrupt nobles pretend that they're fighting for the Empire and that half of them aren't secretly in a Slanneshi cult.

The world which Mordheim fitted into perfectly. Where magic existed, but was rare and MASSIVELY distrusted.

Where the average person would... live an average person life. Cutting down trees (that weren't likely to be some mad thing, just trees), baking bread, running their merchant business.

A world with superstitions just like ours, except that lots of those superstitions are really real and might just come howling out of the forest one day to eat you. If you're walking through the woods and suddenly everything starts looking like an Ian Miller painting, you've gone too far and you're in trouble.

But you probably won't meet any of this stuff unless you're actually a soldier. A fairly normal civilisation in a world with a lot of conflict.

Thoughts based upon a whole two images, which will likely be utterly invalidated by everything GW do afterwards, as the comments on the first map have already proven, but what the hell

Kislev - wow that's out of left field, a faction that barely saw any GW love aside from one minor spurt in 6th edition. This is a sign that the game will be broader in scope than the original image suggested, if they're already doing such minor factions.

Think we can pretty much expect Kislev to be one of the base factions in TW3 now - not that it's much of a surprise given what's left, no Cathay is not happening. There's some great synergies there, potentially saves both GW and CA money in doing all the design work for the faction, bulks out the limited faction list for CA and will help GW move people over from the video game if they can play the latest human faction on the tabletop early in TOW's lifecycle.

Apparently these women are an elite unit, it's not surprising they look a bit more magical and stylised, elite units need something to differentiate themselves from the rank and file. If the grunt Kislev troops look like this, then start worrying if you're a low fantasy guy.

Seems like they're leaning hard into the 'Snow Queen' aspect of Kislev, which I'm all for, so long as it's interspersed with the trademark Warhammer Fantasy grimdarkness and cynicism. These guys are on the front line of fighting against Norsca and Chaos, even more so than the Empire. They need to be dark and gritty and morally ambigious, not shiny snow people.

All the grognards still suggesting that this game will be a small scale large numbers game, like the commercial failure Warmaster, I highly doubt they'd be doing such detailed weapon drawings for such a game.

 Graphite wrote:
That would be 3rd Edition to 6th edition, and it was awesome.

I too hope for the Old World in all its bleak, normal glory. The old world of Geheimnisnacht, before Gotrek was a terrifying, end of the world surviving monster. Goblins and peasants stabbing each other in the mud with crude spears while the corrupt nobles pretend that they're fighting for the Empire and that half of them aren't secretly in a Slanneshi cult.

Gotrek was terrifying even then and that bit about "corrupt nobles" is just silly fanwank at best.

The world which Mordheim fitted into perfectly. Where magic existed, but was rare and MASSIVELY distrusted.

Maybe if you lived in the Empire where Witch Hunters and religious zealots shouted about magic being awful all the time. Bretonnia and the Elves were a totally different situation.

Where the average person would... live an average person life. Cutting down trees (that weren't likely to be some mad thing, just trees)

Athel Loren and the Asrai say "hi".

baking bread, running their merchant business.
A world with superstitions just like ours, except that lots of those superstitions are really real and might just come howling out of the forest one day to eat you. If you're walking through the woods and suddenly everything starts looking like an Ian Miller painting, you've gone too far and you're in trouble.

But you probably won't meet any of this stuff unless you're actually a soldier. A fairly normal civilisation in a world with a lot of conflict.

Most of what you're talking about had nothing to do with 3rd to 6th edition. It was lore stuff. Stuff that exists in AoS as well. You just actually have to read about it rather than relying on 1d4chan or thirdhand accounts from people with an axe to grind over the setting.

Hmm...
A Forgeworld guy is doing the art. I hope it's plastic models, with occasionally heroes from FW, like Necromunda. But more plastic models than Necromunda.

GaroRobe wrote:
Hmm...
A Forgeworld guy is doing the art. I hope it's plastic models, with occasionally heroes from FW, like Necromunda. But more plastic models than Necromunda.

Forge World are doing the whole thing. There may be plastic releases, but I wouldn’t expect more than Necromunda unless things change before it comes out.

Kislev dudes (and dudettes) with stahlrim weapons and ice magic sounds like the Old World is getting Age-of-Sigmarified.

GaroRobe wrote:
Hmm...
A Forgeworld guy is doing the art. I hope it's plastic models, with occasionally heroes from FW, like Necromunda. But more plastic models than Necromunda.

Necromunda is 100% the FW/Specialist Games department, including all their plastic models. As is Adeptus Titanicus. As is the plane-game. As is Blood Bowl. Etc..



Ironically, many of the pricy, giant resin lumps for 40K sold on the FW website aren't, as "GW main" has taken to writing rules for those.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Kislev dudes (and dudettes) with stahlrim weapons and ice magic sounds like the Old World is getting Age-of-Sigmarified.

Not really. It’s one elite unit who fights in a similar way to the Ice Queen, who uses magic anyway. Not a lot to go on, and makes sense to me that they’d be a bit more magical.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Kislev dudes (and dudettes) with stahlrim weapons and ice magic sounds like the Old World is getting Age-of-Sigmarified.

Kislev had ice magic in 6th. It's not new.

To be honest, I'm confused. So, this unit was always there, even before Katarina came to power ? Or is it her personnal guard ? The fact that the article is talking about their similarity to channel ice magic like the Ice Queen seems to say they're more close to the setting just before the End Times.

And yeah, it's clearly more "high fantasy" than the Old World of old times. If it was an elf unit, it doesn't bother me, since they were always more familiar with magic. But we're talking about humans in the Old World, and we know the setting there wasn't exactly "magic friendly", even in 8th edition. We don't need 4chan to know that, just read the regular old lore.