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 Yodhrin wrote:
They can showcase as much daft high magic ice malarkey as they want, I can always just not buy it, I just want to know if they're going to deviate from the existing aesthetic for the basic units I actually plan to buy if they're good.

I'm more interested in the units that should be making up ~90% of my potential Kislev army than the snowflake(aha) stuff, sue me.

Same! If the next couple updates show new, improved plastic Kossars, Ungol horse archers, Winged Lancers, and Gryphon Legion, I'll be ecstatic.

I would like GW to make things as...compatible as possible with all the old Olde Worlde stuff but...

...I can't help but think they'll be highly motivated to get people to buy as many new miniatures as possible.

Now, clearly this much is obvious, I know!

But I'm not thinking that much of what has gone before will work well with what's coming up.

Even if it is as 'simple' a thing as all the new 'Olde Worlde" looking miniatures being upscaled just enough to make older minis look silly small?

Not to mention that a lot of the older minis just won't be that generally available anyway?

Still, I'll be happy to be proven wrong if GW goes against type and releases a game that let all the old vets happily play their collections up against all the new stuff too, and everything fits just fine!

 insaniak wrote:
I can totally get behind bear riders for Kislev.

Sure as hell wouldn't want to stand in front of them...

Walking behind them has its own risks, be careful where you step!

Well, that was.. unsurprising! As soon as Kislev was announed, bear cav were bound to follow sooner or later. Certainly happier with them than the ice witch unit, though I'm still more interested in the common horse-mounted soldier than the (hopefully) rare bear-mounted one. Naturally, the bears had to become substantially bigger and fancier than Boris' old one, but I guess a new hero will have an even larger and more impressive version. Only really worried what a new even larger centrepiece monster would be if a big bear is unlikely to cut it anymore. A massive ice elemental (possibly shaped like a bear) or so? Well, let's not get worried about that just yet.

Well then GW, show us some horsies and streltsi next! Two previews of unique exotic things to make people interested (or lose hope, depending on preferences), but surely it makes sense to then continue with ordinary figures that would make up the bulk of the army, saving some surprises for a time closer to reveal.

"Between the chill winters and constant threat of marauding enemies, the people of Kislev are hard and constantly ready for battle, and they use all the meagre resources of their country to their advantage… including the most abundant of their native animals."

the most abundant of their native animals

Really?

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:


You've just pointed out the exact problem with it. It's so indistinctive it could be from all or any of those. It has no distinctive features to call its own.

Quite right Gideon.

SamusDrake wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:


You've just pointed out the exact problem with it. It's so indistinctive it could be from all or any of those. It has no distinctive features to call its own.

Quite right Gideon.

It’s an armoured polar bear. I’m not really sure how different an armoured polar bear can be without changing much to point where people would probably be complaining that it looks over worked or isn’t a polar bear any more or something. The armour doesn’t even look that much like the armour from Golden Compass other than being bear shaped.

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

"Between the chill winters and constant threat of marauding enemies, the people of Kislev are hard and constantly ready for battle, and they use all the meagre resources of their country to their advantage… including the most abundant of their native animals."

the most abundant of their native animals

Really?

GW? Ordinary? Good luck on that wish. Odds are stacked against you.

I suspect we'll be seeing Empire, Kislev, Orcs and Goblins, and Chaos Hordes as the first batch of armies, as a lot of the groundwork for most of the armies is already in place, and it should fit the timeline they're setting it in. May be a few additions, like Dwarves and maybe Undead, but we'll just have to wait and see. Impressed with the concepts so far for Kislev, the units previewed could easily be used as substitutes in AoS for Cities units so they will likely see use regardless of how well the new game does initially.

I never got that bear rider, but as a kid I wanted it to make a Panzerbjørn ridden by a Imperial Guard officer or Commissar. With three gatlings/assault cannons, one on each front paw, one under his maw Trollkin have bear units and cav, too, but PP prices are even worse than GW here, so I never got them, either.

If they tripple his original price I'll have to get that bear.

i just want GW to redo units like the Underworlds goblin wolf riders.

Coenus Scaldingus wrote:Two previews of unique exotic things

How unique, tho, is the subtle distinction we're trying to wrangle.

"Between the chill winters and constant threat of marauding enemies, the people of Kislev are hard and constantly ready for battle, and they use all the meagre resources of their country to their advantage… including the most abundant of their native animals."

the most abundant of their native animals

Really?

Giant dire-lemming cav when?

Dire-lemmings arrive when Clan Moulder can breed them.

 infinite_array wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
They can showcase as much daft high magic ice malarkey as they want, I can always just not buy it, I just want to know if they're going to deviate from the existing aesthetic for the basic units I actually plan to buy if they're good.

I'm more interested in the units that should be making up ~90% of my potential Kislev army than the snowflake(aha) stuff, sue me.

Same! If the next couple updates show new, improved plastic Kossars, Ungol horse archers, Winged Lancers, and Gryphon Legion, I'll be ecstatic.

I really want them to introduce Winged Lancers, just to see all of the Sabaton Memes.

 Graphite wrote:
Dire-lemmings arrive when Clan Moulder can breed them.

Not good enough! Between the chill winters and the threat of marauding enemies, we cannot wait! We must use whatever meagre resources our country possesses, now! Bring me three hundred and forty-seven lemmings and lash them to this dog sle- ah I mean unique and characterful war-chariot!

I can see it. A whiteboard at the head of a roomful of GW... creatives. "Okay guys, Kislev is kinda sorta like Russia, so what things do we know about Russia that we can use to make this lot different?"

"Well it's snowy and icy, I guess? And there's cossacks? And they have a thing about bears...?"

Lemmings only missed the cut because the GW studio never read the Beano.

I think GW has a difficult task ahead with the Old World. As others have said the uncertainty is awkward and when we get paragraphs like this:

The Old World is to Warhammer Age of Sigmar, as the Horus Heresy is to Warhammer 40,000. The bedrock of lore from which mortals rose to godhood and legends were forged. And like the Horus Heresy, seeing those mythic heroes in action has an undeniable appeal, as does re-creating the glorious armies of a previous epoch – an exciting proposition for hobbyists and gamers alike. And now, we have a dedicated team in the Warhammer Studio beginning the work of bringing all that awesome back to the tabletop.

There are a number of implications a person can make. To make the big, obvious speculation, It could be the familiar form of 8th, as in 8.5 (or 9thish), or it could be something completely different that reflects the skirmish orientation of their other systems and sets.

Also, will we be seeing the multitude of faction variations that exist in AOS and to a lesser extent in 40k (GSC and Harlies come to mind)? Or will it be more the old style of fixed factions that can be built for variation (e.g. playing O&Gs as themes like night goblins or savage orcs etc..) but are also the whole faction? Will we be getting the 'chapter tactics' treatment of 6 or so variations to dedicate units to in order to receive some fixed bonus? However, this is more 40k than AOS, though vampire bloodlines and other such things did exist, they also had a bit more specific stuff for them.

How much has the success of the Total War: Warhammer series influenced this? There is a lot more variation in unit choices (not necessarily new and unique) in TW:WH 1 & 2, and soon to be 3.

There are a ton of generic regiments of renown, for example, there are also the fleshed out faction(s?) for what were previously a foot-note list relying on conversion, like the Vampire Coast. Also armies like Bretonnia get peasant mobs, about 3-4 different types of Men at Arms and at least 2-3 variations of grail knight unit that I can think of (1 of them is on pegasus I believe).

If this has a larger influence, like I suspect, then it could produce an unusual mix of the new(ish) with the old (especially given the new units seen in the latest TW:WH2 DLC such as lava arachnarocks, though the Grom the Paunch 3D model is brilliant and looks just like the newer art in the 8th book).

I think many would be happy to have 6th edition back, some 8th (I'd be interested in either personally) and some may even want 7th....etc. But the old model-count to usefulness is still an unspoken issue. 40k has also walked down this path in recent years, poor Tyranid and Orks players, and the old problem of paying the same price for 10 models as 40k but only being 1/3 of the average squad (outside of horde units) may rear it's head again.

As you can see, I like redundancy.

You know, a mutated variant of Skaven that are basically giant Lemmings might be fun. Probably not lore friendly though.

Hell, for all we know so far, this could just be set up with a 'good' and 'evil' army list mixing together a small teams of units cherry picked from all of the old WHFB factions...

 Wunzlez wrote:
I think GW has a difficult task ahead with the Old World. As others have said the uncertainty is awkward and when we get paragraphs like this:

The Old World is to Warhammer Age of Sigmar, as the Horus Heresy is to Warhammer 40,000. The bedrock of lore from which mortals rose to godhood and legends were forged. And like the Horus Heresy, seeing those mythic heroes in action has an undeniable appeal, as does re-creating the glorious armies of a previous epoch – an exciting proposition for hobbyists and gamers alike. And now, we have a dedicated team in the Warhammer Studio beginning the work of bringing all that awesome back to the tabletop.

I have all sorts of problems with that, just from the first line.

If anything, AoS is to the Old World as the Horus Heresy is (or became) to 40K: an attempt to squeeze more money out of a the-same-but-different variation of a familiar setting.

It seems to me based on what little they've shown so far that the game will have a strong human focus. I'm willing to bet that whatever the initial wave of releases is will be ~80% generic (i.e. this is a box of spearmen, this is a box of bowmen, etc. there are some bits or transfers depicting heraldry of the various relevant human factions so you can customize them to some extent), with the remaining 20% being unique stuff (characters, bear cav, other unique/special units).

That being said, I can't help but feel GW is putting the cart before the horse (or bear) - we still have no idea what the game is or anything about it, its supposed release is probably 3-5 years away by their own statement, but they are showing us faction/unit design artwork?

Happy with all they have shown so far - as has been catogorically shown the Bears in particular have been part of the army backround for several decades .

I bought pack of these and hope the GW versions look as good.

chaos0xomega wrote:
It seems to me based on what little they've shown so far that the game will have a strong human focus. I'm willing to bet that whatever the initial wave of releases is will be ~80% generic (i.e. this is a box of spearmen, this is a box of bowmen, etc. there are some bits or transfers depicting heraldry of the various relevant human factions so you can customize them to some extent), with the remaining 20% being unique stuff (characters, bear cav, other unique/special units).

That being said, I can't help but feel GW is putting the cart before the horse (or bear) - we still have no idea what the game is or anything about it, its supposed release is probably 3-5 years away by their own statement, but they are showing us faction/unit design artwork?

If the models are cool they will be bought for both AoS and 40k proxies and conversions (hell, I'm sure they will all get proper rules for AoS)- the rules could be terrible and there would still.be a market

 ImAGeek wrote:


It’s an armoured polar bear. I’m not really sure how different an armoured polar bear can be without changing much to point where people would probably be complaining that it looks over worked or isn’t a polar bear any more or something. The armour doesn’t even look that much like the armour from Golden Compass other than being bear shaped.

There are certainly differences when one puts the two designs beside each other - the Antlers, for instance. But it really was the first thing that came to mind upon seeing it.

I really don't mind though and looking forward to seeing the final sculpt when it finally emerges. Would love to do a White Witch chariot style piece - maybe with a Daughter of Khaine or female Stormcast screaming "Yah!!!".

So catching up on this thread from my last reply brings me to one conclusion:

I was wrong, there IS a precedent for bear cavalry units for Kislev.


That being said, I have to make two offhand comments:

1. I sincerely forgot Citadel Journal was a thing, and now I'm wondering how many lovely 6th Ed. pieces of gaming material I missed out on.

2. I don't feel bad about missing the Warmaster thing. The 7 people who played Warmaster had my back on this, apparently. I also have to amend what I said about Warmaster previously as it actually DID bring something unitwise that couldn't simply be played in WFB proper.




NOW to get back to the flow of the topic: I am now wondering how long it'll take to get Stormcasts retconned into WFB. It looks like this new game will most assuredly be as WoW as AOS is, and that may kill any buying interest I have short of stockpiling squares if they even bring those back. I'm starting to get more skeptical by the second.

To the comment about everyone having monstrous cav units, they don’t.
Lizardmen still don’t have any despite having the most potential for it of any army.
They just keep giving them big dinos instead.


Bear cav are a nice touch too.
Brings it back closer for me and as long as the execution is right, they should be solid.
I’d also hazard a guess that anything coming out will be ported into other systems too.
The potential for easy cash on double sales will be too much for them to resist.

I mean, Kislev are Russians. Did you think they won't get bear cav?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I mean, Kislev are Russians. Did you think they won't get bear cav?

Kislev are not Russians. That region 'represents' a vast mid-east European region/culture including Polish from where the famous Winged Riders (Hussars) come from. At least that was I was always imaging.

GW is making a big joke out of this whole Old World. Teasing some crappy pics/sketches of some Kislev units (which most old WHFB do not care at all) instead of giving some proper info/teasers of that refreshed system (I hope that is what is going to happen )

 Blooddragon1981 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I mean, Kislev are Russians. Did you think they won't get bear cav?

Kislev are not Russians. That region 'represents' a vast mid-east European region/culture including Polish from where the famous Winged Riders (Hussars) come from. At least that was I was always imaging.

GW is making a big joke out of this whole Old World. Teasing some crappy pics/sketches of some Kislev units (which most old WHFB do not care at all) instead of giving some proper info/teasers of that refreshed system (I hope that is what is going to happen )

Well, yes, true. Russians are one of the influences though, and I just couldn't resist referencing this gem :

 Blooddragon1981 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I mean, Kislev are Russians. Did you think they won't get bear cav?

Kislev are not Russians. That region 'represents' a vast mid-east European region/culture including Polish from where the famous Winged Riders (Hussars) come from. At least that was I was always imaging.

GW is making a big joke out of this whole Old World. Teasing some crappy pics/sketches of some Kislev units (which most old WHFB do not care at all) instead of giving some proper info/teasers of that refreshed system (I hope that is what is going to happen )

This is a project that we won’t see live for a long time.
Proper info won’t even be a thing yet.
Seems like it’s all in the theory stage still, so nothing is concrete about it.
We don’t usually get solid info until a month or less before release.

If you want to start seeing rules blocked in and aspects of how it works, you’re in for a long wait.

 Just Tony wrote:
So catching up on this thread from my last reply brings me to one conclusion:

I was wrong, there IS a precedent for bear cavalry units for Kislev.


That being said, I have to make two offhand comments:

1. I sincerely forgot Citadel Journal was a thing, and now I'm wondering how many lovely 6th Ed. pieces of gaming material I missed out on.

2. I don't feel bad about missing the Warmaster thing. The 7 people who played Warmaster had my back on this, apparently. I also have to amend what I said about Warmaster previously as it actually DID bring something unitwise that couldn't simply be played in WFB proper.




NOW to get back to the flow of the topic: I am now wondering how long it'll take to get Stormcasts retconned into WFB. It looks like this new game will most assuredly be as WoW as AOS is, and that may kill any buying interest I have short of stockpiling squares if they even bring those back. I'm starting to get more skeptical by the second.

To be fair, cynicism is a good defence against disappointment.

I would love to see common goblin units and common orc units get new models, but I feel that's unlikely to happen.

 Wunzlez wrote:
I think GW has a difficult task ahead with the Old World. As others have said the uncertainty is awkward and when we get paragraphs like this:

The Old World is to Warhammer Age of Sigmar, as the Horus Heresy is to Warhammer 40,000. The bedrock of lore from which mortals rose to godhood and legends were forged. And like the Horus Heresy, seeing those mythic heroes in action has an undeniable appeal, as does re-creating the glorious armies of a previous epoch – an exciting proposition for hobbyists and gamers alike. And now, we have a dedicated team in the Warhammer Studio beginning the work of bringing all that awesome back to the tabletop.

I just had a vision of 54mm AOS characters playing 6mm WFB games.

Think of the unique dynamic as you the player issue an order to Stormcast Phred to move his bear cavalry to flank FyrSyr Phrank's Night Goblins.

Roll against Phred's stubbornness score to see if he obeys, then apply his die-rolling skill to see if the attack succeeds which your opponent rolls against Phrank's Strategy Rating to see if he moves up his reinforcement.

The possibilities are endless!