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If Kislev are to be one of the initial factions in Total War number 3, the releases of it and the "Warhammer The Old World" are not exactly going to be synchronised anyway. The latter is years away, much later than the former is expected.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if there is some cooperation in terms of the design. The Total War people have been allowed to come up with some of their own stuff (though each design would have to be approved by GW I think), but if they're designing Kislev at the same time GW has detailed plans and concepts for them, the fortunate timing might as well be taken advantage of by sharing the plans and ensuring Creative Assembly incorporated the new units and aesthetics.

Not expecting many of Creative Assembly's ideas to make it into the Old World though, although I wouldn't mind a new forest dragon following their design.

The whole AoS launch in itself was about the of the worst bits of marketing you'll ever see. GW was so focused on keeping secrets secret back then that they forgot to actually market their biggest game update in decades. This being right after they decided to pay attention to the Old World game in a big way after years of neglect.

So yeah really short sighted madness went on. Heck I believe there's some interview floating around where it was revealed taht the rules for AoS were far more detailed and ready to go but were dropped last minute in the weeks/months before launch - leaving them with just the getting started open play fun rules alone.

Anyway best not to dwell on those dark days too much.

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

Not expecting many of Creative Assembly's ideas to make it into the Old World though, although I wouldn't mind a new forest dragon following their design.

I wouldn't be shocked if Creative Assembly's "ideas" aren't strictly theirs. GW supposedly works fairly close with their digital partners--to the point of some of the later army books for Warhammer Fantasy having "With thanks to EA/Mythic" in there for stuff relating to lore and art. My Wood Elf army book from 8th has that smackdab in the front.

No evidence to suggest it's what happening with Old World but someday GW will have to respond to 3D printing. Warhammer Fantasy is inherently generic in many regards (already a lot of knockoffs), so it wouldn't be a bad spot to start. Producing files has to be cheaper than physical manufacture of models and they still have AoS and 40k for the casual market. Bet GW still has the digital files for discontinued units like the High Elf bolt thrower and dragon princes. Could move the whole HE line to digital. Would only need new archers and spearelves.

GW will worry about addressing 3D printing when 3D printing becomes something worth addressing. There's no point spend resources adapting your niche hobby product to an even more niche hobby.

 EnTyme wrote:
GW will worry about addressing 3D printing when 3D printing becomes something worth addressing. There's no point spend resources adapting your niche hobby product to an even more niche hobby.

It took 20 years for them to acknowledge the internet as anything other than a new way to publish catalogues.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
GW will worry about addressing 3D printing when 3D printing becomes something worth addressing. There's no point spend resources adapting your niche hobby product to an even more niche hobby.

It took 20 years for them to acknowledge the internet as anything other than a new way to publish catalogues.

Well look how that turned out! Nobody uses the Internet anymore. You definitely can't play Warhammer with it or use it as a discussion place....

pm713 wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
GW will worry about addressing 3D printing when 3D printing becomes something worth addressing. There's no point spend resources adapting your niche hobby product to an even more niche hobby.

It took 20 years for them to acknowledge the internet as anything other than a new way to publish catalogues.

Well look how that turned out! Nobody uses the Internet anymore. You definitely can't play Warhammer with it or use it as a discussion place....

Isn't that literally his point? That GW was 20 years behind when it came to optimizing their use of an incredibly useful resource? And therefore they're probably never going to acknowledge 3D printing, even on the off chance it does become a viable competitor for their product?

Can't see it being something worth considering for TOW, though. Given the choice between buying a unit of spearmen in plastic or having to print the same designs out, in resin, one miniature at a time? Convenience alone will take me to the plastic every time, to say nothing of the durability. It's not going improve enough in the next 3-5 years for it to be a consideration for anyone but the most diehard of 3D printer enthusiasts.

 Tim the Biovore wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
GW will worry about addressing 3D printing when 3D printing becomes something worth addressing. There's no point spend resources adapting your niche hobby product to an even more niche hobby.

It took 20 years for them to acknowledge the internet as anything other than a new way to publish catalogues.

Well look how that turned out! Nobody uses the Internet anymore. You definitely can't play Warhammer with it or use it as a discussion place....

Isn't that literally his point? That GW was 20 years behind when it came to optimizing their use of an incredibly useful resource? And therefore they're probably never going to acknowledge 3D printing, even on the off chance it does become a viable competitor for their product?

Can't see it being something worth considering for TOW, though. Given the choice between buying a unit of spearmen in plastic or having to print the same designs out, in resin, one miniature at a time? Convenience alone will take me to the plastic every time, to say nothing of the durability. It's not going improve enough in the next 3-5 years for it to be a consideration for anyone but the most diehard of 3D printer enthusiasts.

You may have missed some sarcasm there.

Misread the direction of it, yeah

According to People I've Spoken To(who give every appearance of being plausible sources of info) GW have already thoroughly considered 3D printing as a potential avenue for their business, but rejected it out of hand when they were told straight up that the level of control they would demand over the process(make the machines themselves, proprietary gcode replacement, per-print license sales ie pay once print only once) would A; cost a small fortune to develop, B; cost an actual fortune for a customer to buy to recoup A, and C; inevitably be cracked within a matter of months anyway.

For the moment, they seem content to exist in a state of cold war with 3D printing - their lawyers periodically trawl for stuff they can DMCA, knowing that safe harbour means platforms will comply and that nobody making knockoff 3D models as a hobby and giving them away for free is likely to challenge them in court over a mild inconvenience, the designers of stuff then either just reupload or on occasion get scared away, rinse & repeat. Going after the community too hard just risks exposing it to more of their customer base or even another Chapterhouse scenario, so they're content to just bug people enough that they don't get too cocky.

 Tim the Biovore wrote:

Can't see it being something worth considering for TOW, though. Given the choice between buying a unit of spearmen in plastic or having to print the same designs out, in resin, one miniature at a time? Convenience alone will take me to the plastic every time, to say nothing of the durability. It's not going improve enough in the next 3-5 years for it to be a consideration for anyone but the most diehard of 3D printer enthusiasts.

Pretty much this and, of course, quality. I've yet to see anyone put up photos of 3D printed products that aren't covered with hashmarks from the printing process. Part of GW's product statement is that they consider themselves produces of 'fine quality' hobby products, and won't attach their name (or IP issues and control issues) to 3D printing. They'll make it a point of pride that their minis are better. Some will disagree or consider it unimportant, but to me the gap between 3D printing and the garage company products is a lot bigger than the gap between garage companies and GW.

It seems a non issue for GW in general or the 'Old World' in particular.

Fascinating as this discussion of 3-D printing is, and it is good stuff, it should probably be elsewhere.

Been a while.
But in the latest article:

“We’ll be revisiting the Old World for the latest look behind the scenes at the forthcoming game, reminiscing about the evolution of the humble Land Speeder, and seeing what competitive Warhammer 40,000 players have come up with in Battle Forge.”

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/28/the-old-world-your-first-look-at-the-map-of-bretonnia/

There it is! 6 or 7 months and they give us a MAP! Well done, Forge World, well done!

"However, one name, in particular, stands apart from all others, for it’s a name steeped in Bretonnia’s glorious history – that of the incumbent ruler, King Louen Orc-Slayer."

Louen Leoncoeur you mean? Who's Louen Orc-Slayer? I've never heard him called that

There was more than one Louen in history I assume?

This is set quite far back compared.
Leoncouer wasn’t alive back then, or incumbent.

Yup. Around 300 years before Louencouer.

https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/King_of_Bretonnia

Here's hoping it's an alternate universe where the world doesn't get blown up.

Ohhhh yeahh that's the good stuff right there. If nothing else 2021 will be a feast of delicious Old World teases.

Very excited by the fact that there High Elves and Wood Elves on show as well.

I think according to the Bretonnian army book that puts the setting at 2201 IC.

 Sledgehammer wrote:
Here's hoping it's an alternate universe where the world doesn't get blown up.

It’s set before Warhammer was set anyway, so it’s a moot point.

 Sledgehammer wrote:
Here's hoping it's an alternate universe where the world doesn't get blown up.

its not going to be an alternate universe, they've stated that this will be the aos version of 30k

 Sledgehammer wrote:
Here's hoping it's an alternate universe where the world doesn't get blown up.

Why, so people can grouse that there are no new units that came out post-Archaon's failed invasion?

It's set in the past. This is the Horus Heresy of WHFB.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CragHack wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/28/the-old-world-your-first-look-at-the-map-of-bretonnia/

There it is! 6 or 7 months and they give us a MAP! Well done, Forge World, well done!

This is the first confirmation of Bretonnia, Asrai, and Asur in the Old World game. That's big heckin' news thank you very much.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Sledgehammer wrote:
Here's hoping it's an alternate universe where the world doesn't get blown up.

It’s set before Warhammer was set anyway, so it’s a moot point.

That depends, it could be a moot point, or GW could decide to litter the new fluff with references and elbow-nudgey wink-wink "foreshadowing" of ET and AoS stuff to treble-down on a "it's a single timeline that ends in the world exploding and AoS happening, Deal With It" type attitude. Setting it in an alternate version of the world explicitly would preclude that definitively, but yeah it doesn't need to be that explicit if GW can keep it in their pants.

 Kanluwen wrote:
This is the first confirmation of Bretonnia, Asrai, and Asur in the Old World game. That's big heckin' news thank you very much.

And Orcs.

I don't recall them being mentioned in the Kislev articles (though it has been a while)

 Yodhrin wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Sledgehammer wrote:
Here's hoping it's an alternate universe where the world doesn't get blown up.

It’s set before Warhammer was set anyway, so it’s a moot point.

That depends, it could be a moot point, or GW could decide to litter the new fluff with references and elbow-nudgey wink-wink "foreshadowing" of ET and AoS stuff to treble-down on a "it's a single timeline that ends in the world exploding and AoS happening, Deal With It" type attitude. Setting it in an alternate version of the world explicitly would preclude that definitively, but yeah it doesn't need to be that explicit if GW can keep it in their pants.

If they're at all sensible, they won't mention End Times or anything like it at all. That's the benefit of moving 300 years into the past - along with freshening up characters. That way they can avoid the constant WHFB/AOS flame wars and any confusion between the two. Of course some characters will cross over but that's just the nature of the beast. If they focus entirely on the Old World, they can keep characters like Morathi/Malekith/Tyrion firmly in the background and avoid any confusion. Shifting 300 years into the past, means human characters being in both settings won't be an issue.

In other news, Louen Orc Slayer puts us firmly in the latter period of the Time of Three Emperors and after the Vampire Wars. Going to be a lovely continuity task to make sure that this, WHFB and WHFRPG (it's doing The Enemy Within atm, set shortly before the WHFB present time but with a substantially different political set up) all align correctly - which I suspect they won't given GW's usual record on this kind of thing.

So what does the time period imply the differences could be compared to WHFB? I've seen mentions that some of the races weren't too active, but I have no idea what specifically might be missing/different other than the characters who quite obviously aren't born yet.

The elf treaty ports are an interesting addition - there are a few mentioned previously in Estalia or the Far East but I think these are all new.

 Londinium wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Sledgehammer wrote:
Here's hoping it's an alternate universe where the world doesn't get blown up.

It’s set before Warhammer was set anyway, so it’s a moot point.

That depends, it could be a moot point, or GW could decide to litter the new fluff with references and elbow-nudgey wink-wink "foreshadowing" of ET and AoS stuff to treble-down on a "it's a single timeline that ends in the world exploding and AoS happening, Deal With It" type attitude. Setting it in an alternate version of the world explicitly would preclude that definitively, but yeah it doesn't need to be that explicit if GW can keep it in their pants.

If they're at all sensible, they won't mention End Times or anything like it at all. That's the benefit of moving 300 years into the past - along with freshening up characters. That way they can avoid the constant WHFB/AOS flame wars and any confusion between the two. Of course some characters will cross over but that's just the nature of the beast. If they focus entirely on the Old World, they can keep characters like Morathi/Malekith/Tyrion firmly in the background and avoid any confusion. Shifting 300 years into the past, means human characters being in both settings won't be an issue.

In other news, Louen Orc Slayer puts us firmly in the latter period of the Time of Three Emperors and after the Vampire Wars. Going to be a lovely continuity task to make sure that this, WHFB and WHFRPG (it's doing The Enemy Within atm, set shortly before the WHFB present time but with a substantially different political set up) all align correctly - which I suspect they won't given GW's usual record on this kind of thing.

Interestingly the recent AOS Soulborn supplements seems to have been written with communication with GW with Anvilgard plots in particular and even named elements/characters being the same in both. So there is some hope!

Yeah the 300 step back is a good move - its only the human notables that are really effected - most of the other races can have their named favs active....even the Skaven - some of the Council of 13 are pretty damn old!

If its setting up some decades before the Great War against Chaos (as seems to be the case) https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Great_War_Against_Chaos

Then there are some major differences including no Colleges of Magic - probably nearest would be the Guild in Middenheim which has always been friendly to wizards. Technologically not a huge difference on the battlefield I don't think - maybe less human and dwarf war machines.

https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Timeline

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
So what does the time period imply the differences could be compared to WHFB? I've seen mentions that some of the races weren't too active, but I have no idea what specifically might be missing/different other than the characters who quite obviously aren't born yet.

2201 means

* Vampire Wars about 50 years in the past with Mannfred defeated. Vampires still around but power reduced.
* Latter stages of the Age of Three Emperors in The Empire - different provincial set ups, Marienburg still in the Empire, no Colleges of Magic.
* Bretonnia - Mousillon should still have a duke, as this is pre the Affair of the False Grail. I think this also means it's not an undead ruin (shame). More Orcs present than in previous continuity.

No idea about the Elven history.

My only wish for this is for the Bretonnia range to return unchanged.