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 Mentlegen324 wrote:
It's been 2 years since announcement and we still don't really know what this even is. They've clearly put a lot of work into it with designing entire new factions, lore and rules supposedly similar to WHFB, if after all this it ends up being a relatively small thing that just gets some nice resin models a few times a year that'll be a bit of a disapointment. It is a forgeworld project so I'm not expecting it to get the same level of attention as AoS or 40k, but I just hope it's still a substantial return to the setting.

Yeah, GW has no small legacy to consider if they want to do Fantasy justice with The Old World.

I liked to think, back before this whole pandemic nonsense got in the way of everything, that with Specialist Games getting actual plastic kits to work with and talk of a second factory going online, that GW might not use that exclusively to better support the main games but also to up plastic kit allocation for Forge World to make mass combat games like Horus Heresy and, ostensibly, The Old World more palatable to the average player. It was of course nothing more than baseless wishful thinking. Still, considering how it was so often said that Horus Heresy was held back by being an all resin game and the two plastic boxed sets selling like crazy when they came out, it's nice to believe GW got the hint and might work that into their plan for The Old World.

But yeah, with how little we know of the game at this point I'd happily settle for a solid presentation of what the game will even look like before I worry about the material of the models. Plenty of time for joy or disappointment afterwards.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
It's been 2 years since announcement and we still don't really know what this even is. They've clearly put a lot of work into it with designing entire new factions, lore and rules supposedly similar to WHFB, if after all this it ends up being a relatively small thing that just gets some nice resin models a few times a year that'll be a bit of a disapointment. It is a forgeworld project so I'm not expecting it to get the same level of attention as AoS or 40k, but I just hope it's still a substantial return to the setting.

 Geifer wrote:
Obviously I'm describing a general principle rather than the exact situation at GW that I wish it applied to.

That said, I don't think it's wrong to attribute a good bit of competence to the model designers. Pretty models are GW's bread and butter and they wouldn't be making such huge profits if they weren't capable of consistently making desirable, good quality models. Doesn't mean they don't also produce duds. Doesn't mean they don't also get details wrong. Competence is a sliding scale, not a binary choice.

Not to some people it seems as I've seen so, so many people who act like regardless of what GW does, it's always the wrong thing.

I'd say the fact that GW said you'll be able to use your old models in the FAQ a few months back indicates that we're probably not looking at just a small scale thing, if the reveals of Kislev/Cathay and even Bretonnians being highlighted didn't already. If it was going to be Empire + a few friends, they'd have been much more circumspect about making such statements to avoid pissing off Elf players etc.

Everything is pointing that this being a rather broad re-release of the WHFB world. The important question though, as you've touched upon is the whole resin/plastic issue. There's no way that this thing will be anything more than a minor success if they go 100% resin. You've got to think that they'll be aggressively trying to convert TWW players, at best with plastic prices that's still a challenge, with resin prices there's no chance. I've just begrudingly paid more for a single Kroxigor than I did for my entire Lizardmen Blood Bowl team and I've been a GW fan since the late 90s, casual players will take one look at Forge World prices and run a mile.

It will be a disaster if this is a mostly resin release. Cant even imagine the price of a whole army

I hope the launch box is Cathay vs Chaos.

 streetsamurai wrote:
It will be a disaster if this is a mostly resin release. Cant even imagine the price of a whole army

Not that much different to current AoS or 40k prices
just compare, 10 metal Steel Legion models are sold for 30€, 10 Cadian plastic models are sold for 35€

expect a full army to cost a 800-1000€, same as a 40k army costs, different materials won't change anything here a full plastic army won't be cheaper

You're not mistaken, just went and looked ar fw prices, and they are a bit more expensive than gw one, but not overwhelmingly so. Just goes to show how crazy gw prices have gotten in the last few years

 Londinium wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
It's been 2 years since announcement and we still don't really know what this even is. They've clearly put a lot of work into it with designing entire new factions, lore and rules supposedly similar to WHFB, if after all this it ends up being a relatively small thing that just gets some nice resin models a few times a year that'll be a bit of a disapointment. It is a forgeworld project so I'm not expecting it to get the same level of attention as AoS or 40k, but I just hope it's still a substantial return to the setting.

 Geifer wrote:
Obviously I'm describing a general principle rather than the exact situation at GW that I wish it applied to.

That said, I don't think it's wrong to attribute a good bit of competence to the model designers. Pretty models are GW's bread and butter and they wouldn't be making such huge profits if they weren't capable of consistently making desirable, good quality models. Doesn't mean they don't also produce duds. Doesn't mean they don't also get details wrong. Competence is a sliding scale, not a binary choice.

Not to some people it seems as I've seen so, so many people who act like regardless of what GW does, it's always the wrong thing.

I'd say the fact that GW said you'll be able to use your old models in the FAQ a few months back indicates that we're probably not looking at just a small scale thing, if the reveals of Kislev/Cathay and even Bretonnians being highlighted didn't already. If it was going to be Empire + a few friends, they'd have been much more circumspect about making such statements to avoid pissing off Elf players etc.

Everything is pointing that this being a rather broad re-release of the WHFB world. The important question though, as you've touched upon is the whole resin/plastic issue. There's no way that this thing will be anything more than a minor success if they go 100% resin. You've got to think that they'll be aggressively trying to convert TWW players, at best with plastic prices that's still a challenge, with resin prices there's no chance. I've just begrudingly paid more for a single Kroxigor than I did for my entire Lizardmen Blood Bowl team and I've been a GW fan since the late 90s, casual players will take one look at Forge World prices and run a mile.

The problem is that while we know the rules will be similar to WHFB, and they've made new factions and lore, neither of those really exclude that it might be something comparable to 30k in terms of the attention it gets and how they go about it. I think it needs to be something at the least equivalent to Necromunda with a mix of plastic and resin kits, combined with a big focus on Black Library novels like the Horus Heresy got. If it turns out to be something primarily resin, that gets a fairly small amount of releases, that is sort of hidden out the way (like how the Horus Heresy stuff doesn't even get a category on the GW site) and is treated like a niche secondary product, that would be such a let down.

All the hyping up of it they've done, the TW:W3 stuff, the WHFB rules and new lore and square bases, and that that they clearly know how excited people are for it has me hope it's done in a substantial way, but at the same time it being a Forgeworld Project that we still know almost nothing about, that obviously isn't going to be a mainline game like 40k or AoS, does give a bit of worry about it. In terms of lore it might be substantial, but it needs more than just that.

I’m still not convinced it’s anymore than just an attempt to create a world of fantasy political intrigue in a sad attempt at courting a Netflix show.

Old World had lore books before the Internet existed. I don't think political intrigue or fantasy stories are anything new to Old World

 Overread wrote:
Old World had lore books before the Internet existed. I don't think political intrigue or fantasy stories are anything new to Old World

Yes, blowing the dust off things always goes down well at a pitch meeting.

Joyboozer wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Old World had lore books before the Internet existed. I don't think political intrigue or fantasy stories are anything new to Old World

Yes, blowing the dust off things always goes down well at a pitch meeting.

By blowing dust off you mean continuing to publish and sell them and even update almost the entire Old World lore line into omnibus editions in digital and print form?
If you check the Omnibus releases https://warminiatures.wordpress.com/2018/08/31/warhammer-fantasy-classic-black-library-listings/


There's only 7 series not in an omnibus that I can see
Several stand alone stories that might get compiled or even added into omnibus yet to be published.
Gotrek and Felix is now entirely in Omnibus editions
Darkblade is following and likely only has one more collected edition to release
After that there's a handful of short stories which could easily get combined into a few collected works (and chances are a few already in omnibus editions would slip in here and there).

Almost all the rest is in big collected editions, efficient for printing and publishing and also for keeping digitally on the shelf and for making it easy to get people into the long running stories that were written.



And that's likely not the complete works, that's just what I could find and collate from the BL website.

It’s been a few decades since I read any Warhammer fantasy novels, were they full of sex and politics? Or does that need to be updated for a modern audience?

Joyboozer wrote:
I’m still not convinced it’s anymore than just an attempt to create a world of fantasy political intrigue in a sad attempt at courting a Netflix show.

Joyboozer wrote:
It’s been a few decades since I read any Warhammer fantasy novels, were they full of sex and politics? Or does that need to be updated for a modern audience?

Just what are you on about? You think the whole reason they're doing this it to make it into some sort of Game of Thrones-like setting just to get someone to make a show? It's quite absurd if that's what you think this will be. Do you think 40k novels need to be "updated for a modern audience" with "sex and politics" too?

Yes, I think that’s exactly what they’re doing, and no I don’t think it’s needed or wanted. But I think it’s what we’ll get. There’s no information other than the focus on the different kingdoms, and I think the relaunch will be aimed at the GoT, Witcher crowd.

This is getting back toward those "maybe its warmaster scale" kinds of discussion that happened when GW only showed a square base and a logo for the game.

Yes you can take what currently we know - which is about one or two lines of text - and predict almost anything from that.



Sex is something GW has never really put into their stories in any graphic detail and I don't see it happening any time soon. Politics have been in the setting forever - its all over the place. Heck the Vampire novels are full of backstabbing political elements.

Joyboozer wrote:
Yes, I think that’s exactly what they’re doing, and no I don’t think it’s needed or wanted. But I think it’s what we’ll get. There’s no information other than the focus on the different kingdoms, and I think the relaunch will be aimed at the GoT, Witcher crowd.

And do you not realize that both those are aimed at more mature audiences from the start, while Warhammer is a setting primarily aimed towards teens? Regardless of that, absolutely nothing we've seen or has been implied about it so far in any way suggests it'll be a wildly different take from that of 40K, AoS or WHFB before it or it in any way will be how you suggest, so just why do you believe that?

Because of this
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/10/07/discover-warhammer-the-old-worlds-ultimate-getaway-for-exiled-lords-and-rotten-princes/

Joyboozer wrote:
Because of this
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/10/07/discover-warhammer-the-old-worlds-ultimate-getaway-for-exiled-lords-and-rotten-princes/

One very small part of the project that was already established as being a place for exiled lords and such within WHFB, that as they're now expanding upon the history of the setting are adding a little more of interest? That makes you feel like they're changing the complete tone and approach of the entire setting because....?

The entirety of every faction within the warhammer fantasy setting concerns backstabbing and political infighting, it's half the lore of some factions.. I don't get what you're getting at?

Joyboozer wrote:
Because of this
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/10/07/discover-warhammer-the-old-worlds-ultimate-getaway-for-exiled-lords-and-rotten-princes/

Something that's both existed and was already explored in the Warhammer RPG to be pretty accurate to that? You might need some better evidence.

I think this “Warhammer” will be very human centric and focused on the human kingdoms like all modern fantasy. Coincidentally, all the releases information GW has released has focussed on the human kingdoms (and the humans with pointy ears) and I haven’t seen anything to convince me this isn’t the case.

I want a Warhammer where the monstrous races are just as central as the human ones, my favourite settings in Warhammer were always the ones that didn’t involve the human kingdoms. I don’t think this version of Warhammer is aimed at me.

Even if it is focus entirely on human factions, the internal politicking of the Warhammer Empire and all the politics that come with it, have existed since well before GOT came out. The 4e Empire Army book came out 3 years before GOT, substantial chunks of the lore were knocking around in the RPG in the late 80s and previous versions of WHFB. I don't think GW are doing anything different with the setting or focusing on any specific areas in order to try and attract GOT/Witcher fans, they're presenting what's always been there and always been core to the setting.

If anything their #1 target is lapsed rank and file players that departed for KOW etc and #2 is converting TWW players that don't play AOS. Existing GW fans that love WHFB are already baked in. GW are struggling to even get 40k onto TV, judging from the lack of progress with Eisenhorn, and 40k is FAR more popular and mainstream than WHFB. I doubt they're using a WHFB relaunch as a way to get on TV.

Joyboozer wrote:
I think this “Warhammer” will be very human centric and focused on the human kingdoms like all modern fantasy. Coincidentally, all the releases information GW has released has focussed on the human kingdoms (and the humans with pointy ears) and I haven’t seen anything to convince me this isn’t the case.

I want a Warhammer where the monstrous races are just as central as the human ones, my favourite settings in Warhammer were always the ones that didn’t involve the human kingdoms. I don’t think this version of Warhammer is aimed at me.

So just Skaven fighting Lizardmen in Lustria or what? There isn't a lot of Warhammer that doesn't involve humans in the old world.

I mean they said in one of the articles "we want people to be able to use their armies straight away" so just because there's no info on other races doesn't mean there isn't going to be any?

Joyboozer wrote:
I think this “Warhammer” will be very human centric and focused on the human kingdoms like all modern fantasy. Coincidentally, all the releases information GW has released has focussed on the human kingdoms (and the humans with pointy ears) and I haven’t seen anything to convince me this isn’t the case.

I want a Warhammer where the monstrous races are just as central as the human ones, my favourite settings in Warhammer were always the ones that didn’t involve the human kingdoms. I don’t think this version of Warhammer is aimed at me.

We know almost nothing about every faction except how Kislev and Cathay looked at the time because of the concept art for those. We've only had the briefest mentions of Bretonnia, Orcs, Elves, Dwarfs, Vampires and even the Empire so far, with their appearances thus far mostly consisting of little more than some names and icons on a map or at the most a character name and some brief lore for the time period. It isn't just the non-human armies that haven't received much information.

It seems like the focus for the new stuff is mostly human-centric. Which makes sense, since orcs, chaos, skavens, beastmens, vampires and ogres are already playable by using the aos/old.whfb minis. Will be interesting to see that they do with elves and dwarves, since the minis released for them in aos are too different from the whfb aesthetic they had for the most part

 streetsamurai wrote:
It seems like the focus for the new stuff is mostly human-centric. Which makes sense, since orcs, chaos, skavens, beastmens, vampires and ogres are already playable by using the aos/old.whfb minis. Will be interesting to see that they do with elves and dwarves, since the minis released for them in aos are too different from the whfb aesthetic they had for the most part

That’s a great point which I hadn’t considered.

I like how it's "now" human centric.

Like it wasn't before?

 Kanluwen wrote:
I like how it's "now" human centric.

Like it wasn't before?

How many white dwarf battle reports were human army versus human army?

 Kanluwen wrote:
I like how it's "now" human centric.

Like it wasn't before?

No, it wasnt. Just look.at the starter set released. Most of the times, there wasnt a human army in there

Imagine if they did all this, over multiple years just to try and make a tv show like GoT.
That sounds ridiculous.

I doubt they are trying to reach out to the Witcher/GoT like you think, as opposed to the obvious - Total War crowd.


In terms of tv anyway, they are already pushing out, using the to be fair much stronger and unique setting and story of Eisenhorn.