Warhammer The Old World OT chat.

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**Olthannon**

Consider me utterly fething surprised they put Cathay on the map.

**Mr Morden**

Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Is it weird i find the Hobgoblin Khanate is far more interesting than the (distinctly empty looking) Cathay map itself?

I love that they are talking and working on stuff for them both

**Mentlegen324**

chaos0xomega wrote:
stratigo wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
kodos wrote:
"big" part, there was a hero riding a normal sized bear and Ice Magic being the northern version of one of the winds
but going by this we will see the new Empire models wearing hoods, using Scythe and riding big ghostly horses because Amethyst has always been a theme for the Empire
expecting something to be realistic and mundane instead of over the top is naive at best

No, there was far more than that. Kislev had just as much of an Ice magic and bear theming as here. The Ice queen, Frozen Court, Ice Palace, Ice Witches, the spirit of the land of Kislev being a bear with their religion involving bears and a God of Bears who took the form of a bear, with that bear religion and Kislev culture being heavily linked and their society having an overall heavy emphasis on bears. Been that way since at least second edition of the RPG back in 2004.

Imma blow your mind. The South Korean executive residence is called the blue house - but it isn't actually blue (okay, the roof might be, but still). The Crystal Palace in the UK wasn't actually built of crystal (rather being made of glass and iron), and the winter palace in Russia wasn't actually made of "Winter" (and was in fact used year-round), nor is the "Beehive House" in Salt Lake City, Utah actually Beehive. The Star Chamber in England wasn't shaped like a star. The "Jade Court" chinese restaurant down the street is not actually made of Jade, nor is the "Lotus Village" residential development a few towns over particularly known for its Lotus plants, which are not native to New Jersey (nor is New Jerseys environment particularly conducive towards their growth). The Chinese Dragon Emperors certainly weren't actual dragons, nor were the Jade Emperors made of Jade, nor was Edward the Black Prince (nor most nobles referred to as "the black") actually, yknow, black. Likewise, Charles "The Hammer" Martel was not actually a hammer, nor was Ernest the Iron made of Iron, nor did Richard the Lionheart actually have the literal heart of a literal lion. Macbeth, "the Red King" was neither Red nor the king of said color, nor was Isabella "the She-Wolf of France" actually a wolf/she-wolf, nor was Louis the Sun King the King of the Sun nor a sun in kingly form.

Names can be evocative without being literal, and fantasy settings are full of evocative titles that aren't tied to literalism. The Mountain that Rides might ride, but is not actually a mountain, nor was the Onion Knight actually an onion.

Mind you, I'm not necessarily saying I dsagree with your premise that Kislev always had plenty of ice and bears going on, just that without details that actually made "the Ice Queen" or the "Ice Palace" icy or the "Frozen Court" frozen it doesn't necesarilly mean that these things were quite so literal.

What part of the last 40 years of warhammer made you think GW does subtlety? If something is called the ice palace, it's made out of fething ice yo. You call someone the ice queen? It's cause the was elsa before elsa was cool (or cold).

It seems a number of people in this thread struggle with reading comprehension. "Mind you, I'm not necessarily saying I dsagree with your premise that Kislev always had plenty of ice and bears going on, just that without details..." is a pretty important statement here. The point is that Mentlegen was premising his argument around what things were named rather than what they actually are. If he wanted to prove his point he should have provided details to support it, as he did with his examples about Bear worship

No, i was not "premising around what things were named rather than what they actually are", I gave a list of stuff already part of the lore that contained "Ice magic and bear theming". You then wrongly decided that's what I meant just because a few of those examples coincidentally happen to have Ice-themed names. I didn't "provide details" about each thing because it was a list simply to give examples of what as already there and it should have been fairly evident to someone with at least a surface-level understanding of KIslev lore that ,for example, the Ice Queen actually does have Ice Magic.

**Mr_Rose**

OK, cool, another subtle hint that yes Cathay will be playable in W:tOW, which would be nice.

**lord_blackfang**

tl;dr: "We have nothing to show for The Old World because we've been busy writing lore for Total War."

**JSG**

Cathay will also be coming to the tabletop in the upcoming Warhammer: The Old World.

Subtle?

**Londinium**

JSG wrote:
Cathay will also be coming to the tabletop in the upcoming Warhammer: The Old World.

Subtle?

For people on the internet, it probably is too subtle.

**NinthMusketeer**

lord_blackfang wrote:
tl;dr: "We have nothing to show for The Old World because we've been busy writing lore for Total War."

...the lore is for both of them though?

**stonehorse**

Really glad to see Hobgoblins getting a small piece of attention in the latest map and article.

Fingers crossed we see them on the tabletop (again).

**Mentlegen324**

lord_blackfang wrote:
tl;dr: "We have nothing to show for The Old World because we've been busy writing lore for Total War."

...Except both the lore and miniatures are for The Old World?

Last time when they said "the Warhammer Studio went so far as to establish each and every unit for use on the tabletop" some dismissed the idea of them actually being part of tabletop and said that was probably just done for TW:W3 balance and such, but now GW has outright said they're coming.

**ZebioLizard2**

lord_blackfang wrote:
tl;dr: "We have nothing to show for The Old World because we've been busy writing lore for Total War."

You can do better then this, come on.

**Mr Morden**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
tl;dr: "We have nothing to show for The Old World because we've been busy writing lore for Total War."
...the lore is for both of them though?

Yeah they have written the army book for Cathay which was then used for the new Total War game

**Geifer**

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
tl;dr: "We have nothing to show for The Old World because we've been busy writing lore for Total War."
You can do better then this, come on.

Yeah. They just have nothing to show, period. No need to drag Total Warhammer into it.

Yawn.

**chaos0xomega**

Mentlegen324 wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
stratigo wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
kodos wrote:
"big" part, there was a hero riding a normal sized bear and Ice Magic being the northern version of one of the winds
but going by this we will see the new Empire models wearing hoods, using Scythe and riding big ghostly horses because Amethyst has always been a theme for the Empire
expecting something to be realistic and mundane instead of over the top is naive at best

No, there was far more than that. Kislev had just as much of an Ice magic and bear theming as here. The Ice queen, Frozen Court, Ice Palace, Ice Witches, the spirit of the land of Kislev being a bear with their religion involving bears and a God of Bears who took the form of a bear, with that bear religion and Kislev culture being heavily linked and their society having an overall heavy emphasis on bears. Been that way since at least second edition of the RPG back in 2004.

Imma blow your mind. The South Korean executive residence is called the blue house - but it isn't actually blue (okay, the roof might be, but still). The Crystal Palace in the UK wasn't actually built of crystal (rather being made of glass and iron), and the winter palace in Russia wasn't actually made of "Winter" (and was in fact used year-round), nor is the "Beehive House" in Salt Lake City, Utah actually Beehive. The Star Chamber in England wasn't shaped like a star. The "Jade Court" chinese restaurant down the street is not actually made of Jade, nor is the "Lotus Village" residential development a few towns over particularly known for its Lotus plants, which are not native to New Jersey (nor is New Jerseys environment particularly conducive towards their growth). The Chinese Dragon Emperors certainly weren't actual dragons, nor were the Jade Emperors made of Jade, nor was Edward the Black Prince (nor most nobles referred to as "the black") actually, yknow, black. Likewise, Charles "The Hammer" Martel was not actually a hammer, nor was Ernest the Iron made of Iron, nor did Richard the Lionheart actually have the literal heart of a literal lion. Macbeth, "the Red King" was neither Red nor the king of said color, nor was Isabella "the She-Wolf of France" actually a wolf/she-wolf, nor was Louis the Sun King the King of the Sun nor a sun in kingly form.

Names can be evocative without being literal, and fantasy settings are full of evocative titles that aren't tied to literalism. The Mountain that Rides might ride, but is not actually a mountain, nor was the Onion Knight actually an onion.

Mind you, I'm not necessarily saying I dsagree with your premise that Kislev always had plenty of ice and bears going on, just that without details that actually made "the Ice Queen" or the "Ice Palace" icy or the "Frozen Court" frozen it doesn't necesarilly mean that these things were quite so literal.

What part of the last 40 years of warhammer made you think GW does subtlety? If something is called the ice palace, it's made out of fething ice yo. You call someone the ice queen? It's cause the was elsa before elsa was cool (or cold).

It seems a number of people in this thread struggle with reading comprehension. "Mind you, I'm not necessarily saying I dsagree with your premise that Kislev always had plenty of ice and bears going on, just that without details..." is a pretty important statement here. The point is that Mentlegen was premising his argument around what things were named rather than what they actually are. If he wanted to prove his point he should have provided details to support it, as he did with his examples about Bear worship

No, i was not "premising around what things were named rather than what they actually are", I gave a list of stuff already part of the lore that contained "Ice magic and bear theming". You then wrongly decided that's what I meant just because a few of those examples coincidentally happen to have Ice-themed names. I didn't "provide details" about each thing because it was a list simply to give examples of what as already there and it should have been fairly evident to someone with at least a surface-level understanding of KIslev lore that ,for example, the Ice Queen actually does have Ice Magic.

You would benefit from learning how to debate and studying episomology. Saying "I'm right because here is a list of items you may or may not be familiar with that proves it" won't get you anywhere. Saying "I'm right because here are detailed examples that corroborate and reinforce my point of view" will. You did the first one (Bear example notwithstanding, but you will note we aren't discussing the bears and that I already pointed out that you did well with it). You can try all these cute digs about me not having a surface level understanding of Kislev lore (which isn't actually true - again "I'm not necessarily saying I disagree with your premise", its because I'm well aware), but you weren't having a debate with me - you were having a very lengthy and repetitious debate with kodos, and he clearly isn't as familiar with the lore, so you need to do the work for him.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mr Morden wrote:
NinthMusketeer wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
tl;dr: "We have nothing to show for The Old World because we've been busy writing lore for Total War."
...the lore is for both of them though?

Yeah they have written the army book for Cathay which was then used for the new Total War game

For 8th Edition WHFB. Its important to keep that distinction in mind, lest someone assume they are further along in game dev than they seem to be.

**nathan2004**

Don’t rumors still point to a reveal at some point this year that dives a little deeper into the rules governing the new Old World ruleset? Hopefully this is still on track, be nice to see what direction this project is going in besides fleshing out parts of the world that weren’t really explored before (which I do appreciate).

**Popsghostly**

Imagine a starter box set with a Cathyan army versus Hobogoblin Khanate? Wow that would be sweet. The Cathyans are confirmed as an Old World army in that article but we all might be old or older when it is released.

**Mentlegen324**

chaos0xomega wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
stratigo wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
kodos wrote:
"big" part, there was a hero riding a normal sized bear and Ice Magic being the northern version of one of the winds
but going by this we will see the new Empire models wearing hoods, using Scythe and riding big ghostly horses because Amethyst has always been a theme for the Empire
expecting something to be realistic and mundane instead of over the top is naive at best

No, there was far more than that. Kislev had just as much of an Ice magic and bear theming as here. The Ice queen, Frozen Court, Ice Palace, Ice Witches, the spirit of the land of Kislev being a bear with their religion involving bears and a God of Bears who took the form of a bear, with that bear religion and Kislev culture being heavily linked and their society having an overall heavy emphasis on bears. Been that way since at least second edition of the RPG back in 2004.

Imma blow your mind. The South Korean executive residence is called the blue house - but it isn't actually blue (okay, the roof might be, but still). The Crystal Palace in the UK wasn't actually built of crystal (rather being made of glass and iron), and the winter palace in Russia wasn't actually made of "Winter" (and was in fact used year-round), nor is the "Beehive House" in Salt Lake City, Utah actually Beehive. The Star Chamber in England wasn't shaped like a star. The "Jade Court" chinese restaurant down the street is not actually made of Jade, nor is the "Lotus Village" residential development a few towns over particularly known for its Lotus plants, which are not native to New Jersey (nor is New Jerseys environment particularly conducive towards their growth). The Chinese Dragon Emperors certainly weren't actual dragons, nor were the Jade Emperors made of Jade, nor was Edward the Black Prince (nor most nobles referred to as "the black") actually, yknow, black. Likewise, Charles "The Hammer" Martel was not actually a hammer, nor was Ernest the Iron made of Iron, nor did Richard the Lionheart actually have the literal heart of a literal lion. Macbeth, "the Red King" was neither Red nor the king of said color, nor was Isabella "the She-Wolf of France" actually a wolf/she-wolf, nor was Louis the Sun King the King of the Sun nor a sun in kingly form.

Names can be evocative without being literal, and fantasy settings are full of evocative titles that aren't tied to literalism. The Mountain that Rides might ride, but is not actually a mountain, nor was the Onion Knight actually an onion.

Mind you, I'm not necessarily saying I dsagree with your premise that Kislev always had plenty of ice and bears going on, just that without details that actually made "the Ice Queen" or the "Ice Palace" icy or the "Frozen Court" frozen it doesn't necesarilly mean that these things were quite so literal.

What part of the last 40 years of warhammer made you think GW does subtlety? If something is called the ice palace, it's made out of fething ice yo. You call someone the ice queen? It's cause the was elsa before elsa was cool (or cold).

It seems a number of people in this thread struggle with reading comprehension. "Mind you, I'm not necessarily saying I dsagree with your premise that Kislev always had plenty of ice and bears going on, just that without details..." is a pretty important statement here. The point is that Mentlegen was premising his argument around what things were named rather than what they actually are. If he wanted to prove his point he should have provided details to support it, as he did with his examples about Bear worship

No, i was not "premising around what things were named rather than what they actually are", I gave a list of stuff already part of the lore that contained "Ice magic and bear theming". You then wrongly decided that's what I meant just because a few of those examples coincidentally happen to have Ice-themed names. I didn't "provide details" about each thing because it was a list simply to give examples of what as already there and it should have been fairly evident to someone with at least a surface-level understanding of KIslev lore that ,for example, the Ice Queen actually does have Ice Magic.

You would benefit from learning how to debate and studying episomology. Saying "I'm right because here is a list of items you may or may not be familiar with that proves it" won't get you anywhere. Saying "I'm right because here are detailed examples that corroborate and reinforce my point of view" will. You did the first one (Bear example notwithstanding, but you will note we aren't discussing the bears and that I already pointed out that you did well with it). You can try all these cute digs about me not having a surface level understanding of Kislev lore (which isn't actually true - again "I'm not necessarily saying I disagree with your premise", its because I'm well aware), but you weren't having a debate with me - you were having a very lengthy and repetitious debate with kodos, and he clearly isn't as familiar with the lore, so you need to do the work for him.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mr Morden wrote:
NinthMusketeer wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
tl;dr: "We have nothing to show for The Old World because we've been busy writing lore for Total War."
...the lore is for both of them though?

Yeah they have written the army book for Cathay which was then used for the new Total War game

For 8th Edition WHFB. Its important to keep that distinction in mind, lest someone assume they are further along in game dev than they seem to be.

Pointing out the mere existence of those things in Kislev lore was the point, it didn't require some some detailed analysis of each. If you did already have an understanding of Kislev lore then it should have been quite obvious to you how in the context of "Things with Ice Magic", they were examples of things with Ice Magic, yet you saw them mentioned and then.decided that the only reason I could have mentioned them was because of their names. If you knew the Ice Palace is made of Ice, the Ice Queen is an Ice Witch, or the Ice Witches are Ice Witches and all that involves involve Ice Magic, then it should have been pretty obvious to you why they were mentioned in that context regardless of if I'd given an explanation of their relevance.

**lord_blackfang**

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
tl;dr: "We have nothing to show for The Old World because we've been busy writing lore for Total War."
You can do better then this, come on.

I probably can but it's not my day job, what's their excuse?

**Just Tony**

So the big update reveal was a map?

**Olthannon**

Just Tony wrote:
So the big update reveal was a map?

More that Cathay is definitely confirmed to be in the game.

**chaos0xomega**

nathan2004 wrote:
Don’t rumors still point to a reveal at some point this year that dives a little deeper into the rules governing the new Old World ruleset? Hopefully this is still on track, be nice to see what direction this project is going in besides fleshing out parts of the world that weren’t really explored before (which I do appreciate).

If its the rumor I'm thinking of, no - the other rumors that came out in the same infodump have been shown to be false.

Olthannon wrote:
Just Tony wrote:
So the big update reveal was a map?

More that Cathay is definitely confirmed to be in the game.

Something which should have been obvious months ago except for vaguely worded statements that were interpreted differently.

**jojo_monkey_boy**

I'm really bummed we won't be seeing anything of Khuresh, Ind or Nippon any time soon. I guess they don't have that sweet Chinese consumer market money.

**Popsghostly**

jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
I'm really bummed we won't be seeing anything of Khuresh, Ind or Nippon any time soon. I guess they don't have that sweet Chinese consumer market money.

I think there's room for Ind and Nippon. The Nihonjin have plenty of consumer money and I doubt many in Cathay errrr... China care much about a Warhammer setting created by the West lol. There's been good interest in Cathay for a long time since it was mentioned in the back of the 3rd??? edition core rule book. The Lizardman battle tome even had a story about a shipwrecked Cathayan encountering the Lizardmen and that custom Cathyan army Dave Taylor created and featured in White Dwarf was awesome. Cathay was destroyed in the End of Times by an Orc/Ogre hoard I believe when the Great Bastion fell. The dragon nature of the leaders is pretty darned cool.

**Mr Morden**

jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
I'm really bummed we won't be seeing anything of Khuresh, Ind or Nippon any time soon. I guess they don't have that sweet Chinese consumer market money.

The map in the Total War Game files has Ind and Kuresh (but not Nippon) and has been confirmed as a prototype so that might mean those areas will see something eventually

Not many fantasy armies based on mythology from India that I am aware of?

**jojo_monkey_boy**

Mr Morden wrote:
jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
I'm really bummed we won't be seeing anything of Khuresh, Ind or Nippon any time soon. I guess they don't have that sweet Chinese consumer market money.

The map in the Total War Game files has Ind and Kuresh (but not Nippon) and has been confirmed as a prototype so that might mean those areas will see something eventually

Not many fantasy armies based on mythology from India that I am aware of?

Yeah, I've seen that. We do have Andy Hall on record saying that they aren't in any form in the plans. I think because GW wants to be in charge of developing the material which then gets passed to CA, the odds of those factions being developed are slim to none right now.

When the old world gets released, assuming it's successful, we will see all of the main factions developed first.

**Laughing Man**

Popsghostly wrote:

The Nihonjin have plenty of consumer money and I doubt many in Cathay errrr... China care much about a Warhammer setting created by the West lol.

I'm guessing you missed where TWW3 is getting massively review bombed by Chinese gamers at the moment.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Yeah I heard about that, why do the Chinese hate TWW3?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mr Morden wrote:
jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
I'm really bummed we won't be seeing anything of Khuresh, Ind or Nippon any time soon. I guess they don't have that sweet Chinese consumer market money.

The map in the Total War Game files has Ind and Kuresh (but not Nippon) and has been confirmed as a prototype so that might mean those areas will see something eventually

Not many fantasy armies based on mythology from India that I am aware of?

Not many, no. A pity though because there's some stuff that would look great on the table top.

**Laughing Man**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah I heard about that, why do the Chinese hate TWW3?

It's apparently because CA massively screwed the pooch on their advertising campaign, and basically just handed the advanced streaming copies to a bunch of randos who had zero interest in Warhammer and casually spoiled the entire plot.

**A Town Called Malus**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah I heard about that, why do the Chinese hate TWW3?

They're annoyed that CA gave review copies of TWW3 to Chinese streamers and youtubers who didn't know anything about the series.

**Popsghostly**

To come to think of it, It's ironic that game features the two big current enemies of the West as heroes.