Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Problem is you can fit like 7 dudes on 32mms in the space that should have 20.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Problem is you can fit like 7 dudes on 32mms in the space that should have 20.

Well if we assume 20 is 5x4, that's 125mmx100mm, it would be a simple affair to fit at least 10 in. With a slight overage of 128mm wide one could run 4x3 with 32s.

I suppose players could always use a movement tray with cutouts and just say "ok that's actually 20 guys because that's the correct size rectangle for 4x5" but maybe that subtracts from the core experience of squares of tons of lil dudes I dunno

Thing is though, part of the aesthetic appeal of Fantasy is having a fully ranked up regiment. So I can't quite see that happening.

Well that could be the cost of "double dipping" your army between both systems.

 Olthannon wrote:
Thing is though, part of the aesthetic appeal of Fantasy is having a fully ranked up regiment. So I can't quite see that happening.

Yeah, I get that. Not sure if there is a "good way" for GW to officially support round and square both, not without compromises like "this regiment of 20 guys is way bigger footprint" or "this regiment of 20 guys has the same footprint but is actually 10 guys"

*GW advertising the return to square bases with a promo shot indicating as much*

Dakkadakka: "Let's debate how they're going to release this new game on round bases in movement trays because..."

I'd be perfectly okay with going back to Middlehammer's paradigm of most units being 5x3 or 4x4, with 5x4 representing a large unit, rather than like 8th Ed WHFB where 5x4 was standard and 8x5 death stars weren't uncommon. That makes round bases on movement trays substantially easier to work with.

A 4x4 unit on 25mm round bases has the same board footprint as a 5x5 unit on 20mm squares, just the sculpts are less bunched up. Which is probably a necessity anyways if they're going to use any modern minis, given how scale and poses have evolved.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
*GW advertising the return to square bases with a promo shot indicating as much*

Dakkadakka: "Let's debate how they're going to release this new game on round bases in movement trays because..."

I wouldn't assume the marketing is that literal.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Problem is you can fit like 7 dudes on 32mms in the space that should have 20.

Well if we assume 20 is 5x4, that's 125mmx100mm, it would be a simple affair to fit at least 10 in. With a slight overage of 128mm wide one could run 4x3 with 32s.

Yeah, that'd look crap, having 10 dudes in some funky arrangement going up against 20 dudes ranked up in a traditional format.

The 4 wide wouldn't really work in practice, the movement tray would need some amount of space between models, say 1mm each side, then more than likely the movement tray would need edges, lets call it 5 to 10mm added to the total, that's still pretty tightly packed and 4 wide 32mm would end up being 140-145mm.

A Song of Ice and Fire works because the game is consistent, everything in the game is on big chunky bases so it doesn't stand out as much as if you put an ASOIAF regiment next to a WHFB regiment. If you do that, the ASOIAF regiment basically looks like a skirmish formation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
*GW advertising the return to square bases with a promo shot indicating as much*

Dakkadakka: "Let's debate how they're going to release this new game on round bases in movement trays because..."

Meh, we're just wishlisting and discussing possibilities, not saying "tHiS iS hoW tHeY WilL dO iT!!!"

Also, there's precedence for games that have round bases... but make them square by putting them on movement trays. Do I think TOW will do that? Not really. Is it a possibility? Maybe. It's best to keep your mind open to possibilities, rather than trying to interpret everything in the narrowest way possible.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 catbarf wrote:
I'd be perfectly okay with going back to Middlehammer's paradigm of most units being 5x3 or 4x4, with 5x4 representing a large unit, rather than like 8th Ed WHFB where 5x4 was standard and 8x5 death stars weren't uncommon. That makes round bases on movement trays substantially easier to work with.

A 4x4 unit on 25mm round bases has the same board footprint as a 5x5 unit on 20mm squares, just the sculpts are less bunched up. Which is probably a necessity anyways if they're going to use any modern minis, given how scale and poses have evolved.

If GW could standardise regiment sizes, like KOW or ASOIAF, I think that could be a nice simplification.

But I don't love the idea of round bases formed into square regiments. I live with it in ASOIAF, but it's not what I think looks cool.

I'm still curious how they're going to deal with the issue of ranking up models, WHFB was already becoming stupidly hard to rank up models, I have fond memories of a friend pretty much quitting WHFB when he painted a unit of 30 models then realising afterwards he couldn't get them to rank up, with AOS models it's dialled that to 11.

No point in creating a game meant to bring back the feel of WFB and the Old World and then try to make it a bunch of other things instead too. Product designers definitely make stupid decisions, but that one is just a little too easy to avoid.

They're not worried about selling this to AoS players, if they want more models, they can just buy AoS models. Sorry guys.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I'm still curious how they're going to deal with the issue of ranking up models, WHFB was already becoming stupidly hard to rank up models, I have fond memories of a friend pretty much quitting WHFB when he painted a unit of 30 models then realising afterwards he couldn't get them to rank up, with AOS models it's dialled that to 11.

That's exactly part of why I suspect that if they're using any modern models, it'll pretty much have to be on round bases. Not only does the increased spacing give the sculpts more room to breathe, it also lets you rotate them as needed to make them fit.

If we're getting a totally new model range with zero overlap, then of course anything's possible.

(Also, there's no need to have any significant extra space in between the bases- if it's done like this, then the frontage pretty much is just base diameter multiplied by number of models. That gap can actually be zero if it's a single molded piece of plastic and not multiple layers of MDF.)

 catbarf wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I'm still curious how they're going to deal with the issue of ranking up models, WHFB was already becoming stupidly hard to rank up models, I have fond memories of a friend pretty much quitting WHFB when he painted a unit of 30 models then realising afterwards he couldn't get them to rank up, with AOS models it's dialled that to 11.

That's exactly part of why I suspect that if they're using any modern models, it'll pretty much have to be on round bases. Not only does the increased spacing give the sculpts more room to breathe, it also lets you rotate them as needed to make them fit.

If we're getting a totally new model range with zero overlap, then of course anything's possible.

Yeah, there's limited number of options. Maybe we get a new range that's similar in scale to the old WHFB range (which was already a tight fit), maybe they space out the models more, not sure what other options there is.

(Also, there's no need to have any significant extra space in between the bases- if it's done like this, then the frontage pretty much is just base diameter multiplied by number of models. That gap can actually be zero if it's a single molded piece of plastic and not multiple layers of MDF.)

That's true, I guess I was thinking in terms of most plastic movement trays I've seen that have some material between the bases and some material between the outermost base and the edge. They could do them very tight.

I do tend to think that because GW have shown images of old-style WHFB bases in their promotional/teaser material, the most probable outcome is we get that style of base rather than round-to-square movement trays.

 ph34r wrote:
I suppose players could always use a movement tray with cutouts and just say "ok that's actually 20 guys because that's the correct size rectangle for 4x5" but maybe that subtracts from the core experience of squares of tons of lil dudes I dunno

The movement tray should then be separatable. What happens with casualties and your 5x4 is now 2x5+3?

tneva82 wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
I suppose players could always use a movement tray with cutouts and just say "ok that's actually 20 guys because that's the correct size rectangle for 4x5" but maybe that subtracts from the core experience of squares of tons of lil dudes I dunno

The movement tray should then be separatable. What happens with casualties and your 5x4 is now 2x5+3?

I'd be surprised if GW try to do cross compatibility between WHFB square and AOS rounds, I think the most likely outcome is we just get square bases like they used to be, maybe different sizes than we used to have but probably nothing compatible with AOS (what used to be on a 20mm base will become 23mm or something silly like that, lol).

Except if GW upscales the base sizes, which they almost certainly will, it wouldn't make much sense to not match the round size brackets.

We're back to rounds again? Will Warmaster scale be next?

 Just Tony wrote:
We're back to rounds again? Will Warmaster scale be next?

It makes sense if you think about it, that way they can keep the round bases small enough to fit on traditional sized movement trays.

Square bases worked fine before the constant scale creep, computer sculpting should make it easier to rank them up. I know every model doing a monopose ballet dance is all the rage right now, but what's the point of doing WHFB if they aren't on tightly packed squares?

AoS models being incompatible with TOW is a selling point

 Just Tony wrote:
We're back to rounds again? Will Warmaster scale be next?

Clearly, the image in the teaser was of a “regiment base” which will hold the entire unit at the correct scale.

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
*GW advertising the return to square bases with a promo shot indicating as much*

Dakkadakka: "Let's debate how they're going to release this new game on round bases in movement trays because..."

Because if GW don't the market will because many will want to use the same models in both AoS and Old World and might not want to have to collect the same army twice to put them on different bases.


How many want to do that is hard to say, it depends on how well Old World picks up on its own and how well AoS maintains itself. Old World is a very bold move by GW because they are literally competing with themselves with the same scale and fantasy setting system in their own library.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Except if GW upscales the base sizes, which they almost certainly will, it wouldn't make much sense to not match the round size brackets.

Old FB models would look REALLY weird on 32mm squares though...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
We're back to rounds again? Will Warmaster scale be next?

It makes sense if you think about it, that way they can keep the round bases small enough to fit on traditional sized movement trays.

Then they wouldn't have AOS cross-compatibility and whole point goes moot. Why not just have squares?

 Just Tony wrote:
We're back to rounds again? Will Warmaster scale be next?

I'm expecting oval bases myself. There's no way the game is going to use rounds or squares.

Hexagons are bestagons! Models will be set up three per one large hexagonal base, set up so they rank up when interleaved correctly.

Even if they wanted to copy Asoiaf I don't see how they could fit AoS on movement trays without having a ridiculous frontage and spacing between the models. They're too big and overly dynamic.

Square bases are one of the things we actually know for definite about this game, are we really going to have discussions about round bases and movement trays and stuff every time there’s any news?

Definitely square! Warhammer: The Old World is a reinvention of the classic rank-and-file game of Warhammer Fantasy Battles. Regiments move in ranked-up units, and strategic manoeuvring into position to launch or receive a critical charge will be as much a key part of the game as it ever was.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/07/21/square-bases-and-kislev-ascendant-see-your-questions-about-warhammer-the-old-world-answered/

 ImAGeek wrote:
Square bases are one of the things we actually know for definite about this game, are we really going to have discussions about round bases and movement trays and stuff every time there’s any news?

Definitely square! Warhammer: The Old World is a reinvention of the classic rank-and-file game of Warhammer Fantasy Battles. Regiments move in ranked-up units, and strategic manoeuvring into position to launch or receive a critical charge will be as much a key part of the game as it ever was.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/07/21/square-bases-and-kislev-ascendant-see-your-questions-about-warhammer-the-old-world-answered/

Yes. It’s part of the Cycle. First there’s the irrational disbelief it’s even happening, then there’s the base discussions, then is either the scale issue or the List of Reasons why {Your Faction} Will Never Come Back.

tneva82 wrote:


Old FB models would look REALLY weird on 32mm squares though...

Sure they would, but new WFB models would look pretty okay on those. In fact, the old WFB clanrats currently come with 25mm rounds. Putting them on 25mm squares for the new game wouldn't change much, but would allow people with AoS stuff to instantly and fairly painlessly convert it to WFB use. Especially since it would allow GW to produce a range of supplementary products that cater to both square and round based regiments.

I imagine all TWO kits will come with upscaled square bases that match the corresponding rounds to broaden the early adoption population.

Except it stuffs everyone who ever used any 20mm models in WFB... Will be interesting how GW play the base size game given the 25 round vs 20 square difference...

 Overread wrote:

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
*GW advertising the return to square bases with a promo shot indicating as much*

Dakkadakka: "Let's debate how they're going to release this new game on round bases in movement trays because..."

Because if GW don't the market will because many will want to use the same models in both AoS and Old World and might not want to have to collect the same army twice to put them on different bases.


How many want to do that is hard to say, it depends on how well Old World picks up on its own and how well AoS maintains itself. Old World is a very bold move by GW because they are literally competing with themselves with the same scale and fantasy setting system in their own library.

"Don't the market"? What does that even mean?!!??!?!?



The problem is that AOS players are now petrified that this release will cannibalize their playerbase and are in full cope and seethe mode over it. The prevailing theory is that AOS being the only game in town (heh, perfect opportunity for that idiom) in a GW sense keeps WFB players in their playerbase. This is why they gak on any progress that this game might be making developmentwise, doomsay any press releases, and constantly feed debunked fan theories back into the mix on the regular to chatter the feth out of any press releases. Notice that those tactics move the actual news posts down about five pages. This isn't a bug, it's a feature.

Cope and seethe? Are you on 4chan or something? Calm down child, it's a game of toy soldiers. Very few in the AoS crowd gives a rats ass about ToW. It's a totally different demographic now. They're not all going to jump ship because an old game is coming back, and I'm sure vice versa. Despite GW would love that everybody has armies for everything they make I'm sure.