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Ive been souping in yvraine with two wraithseers either as a supreme or a battalion with storm.guardians and wraith blade axes in the web way. The rest gets filled out by cwe. The new quin rules look mint. Im.certainly going to be buying that wd and also need to invest in a quin codex. Struggling to find a copy atm though..
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Things will be opening up a bit more in the next few weeks. I've get to attend my first ITC one day event this year. Once I complete the bases for the Dire Avengers, the army is painted and ready. After going back and forth, I opted for a Craftworld list instead of a soup list. I haven't played much this year, so am keeping it line with what I am comfortable and knowledgeable with. Plus, I habe not played the new ITC missions at all which will be an added layer of complexity. Below is what I am bringing.
BATTALION
1 Farseer, Singing Spear (115)
1 Warlock (45)
5 Dire Avengers, 6 Avenger Catapult, Shredding Fire (58)
5 Dire Avengers, 6 Avenger Catapult, Shredding Fire (58)
5 Dire Avengers, 6 Avenger Catapult, Shredding Fire (58)
1 Wave Serpent, Twin Starcannon, Twin Catapult, Spirit Stone (156)
1 Wave Serpent, Twin Starcannon, Twin Catapult, Spirit Stone (156)
1 Falcon, Pulse Laser, Starcannon, Twin Catapult, Spirit Stone (125)
1 Falcon, Pulse Laser, Starcannon, Twin Catapult, Spirit Stone (125)
1 Falcon, Pulse Laser, Starcannon, Twin Catapult, Spirit Stone (125)
Sarigar wrote: Things will be opening up a bit more in the next few weeks. I've get to attend my first ITC one day event this year. Once I complete the bases for the Dire Avengers, the army is painted and ready. After going back and forth, I opted for a Craftworld list instead of a soup list. I haven't played much this year, so am keeping it line with what I am comfortable and knowledgeable with. Plus, I habe not played the new ITC missions at all which will be an added layer of complexity. Below is what I am bringing.
BATTALION
1 Farseer, Singing Spear (115)
1 Warlock (45)
5 Dire Avengers, 6 Avenger Catapult, Shredding Fire (58)
5 Dire Avengers, 6 Avenger Catapult, Shredding Fire (58)
5 Dire Avengers, 6 Avenger Catapult, Shredding Fire (58)
1 Wave Serpent, Twin Starcannon, Twin Catapult, Spirit Stone (156)
1 Wave Serpent, Twin Starcannon, Twin Catapult, Spirit Stone (156)
1 Falcon, Pulse Laser, Starcannon, Twin Catapult, Spirit Stone (125)
1 Falcon, Pulse Laser, Starcannon, Twin Catapult, Spirit Stone (125)
1 Falcon, Pulse Laser, Starcannon, Twin Catapult, Spirit Stone (125)
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Sarigar wrote: Things will be opening up a bit more in the next few weeks. I've get to attend my first ITC one day event this year. Once I complete the bases for the Dire Avengers, the army is painted and ready. After going back and forth, I opted for a Craftworld list instead of a soup list. I haven't played much this year, so am keeping it line with what I am comfortable and knowledgeable with. Plus, I habe not played the new ITC missions at all which will be an added layer of complexity. Below is what I am bringing.
BATTALION
1 Farseer, Singing Spear (115)
1 Warlock (45)
5 Dire Avengers, 6 Avenger Catapult, Shredding Fire (58)
5 Dire Avengers, 6 Avenger Catapult, Shredding Fire (58)
5 Dire Avengers, 6 Avenger Catapult, Shredding Fire (58)
1 Wave Serpent, Twin Starcannon, Twin Catapult, Spirit Stone (156)
1 Wave Serpent, Twin Starcannon, Twin Catapult, Spirit Stone (156)
1 Falcon, Pulse Laser, Starcannon, Twin Catapult, Spirit Stone (125)
1 Falcon, Pulse Laser, Starcannon, Twin Catapult, Spirit Stone (125)
1 Falcon, Pulse Laser, Starcannon, Twin Catapult, Spirit Stone (125)
Definitely a strong list that looks skewed towards marines if I'm not mistaken? Should do well against them, which is probably the most important consideration right now. I found similar lists to be not great against sisters horde lists, not enough screen against the Repentia being a major problem, they can melee a couple of tanks a turn. But, a) I'm not the greatest player in the world by any stretch of the imagination and b) it's a lot easier to net list a sisters horde on TTS than in real life. I'll be very interested to see how it pans out.
What's with the 312pts on Wave Serpents with nothing to carry? Their shields are pretty irrelevant, as you have lots of better AT targets for your opponent to prioritise, which means you're taking them primaritly for shields offensively?
Automatically Appended Next Post: You have 15 T3 troops, so in ITC at least you're not going to be able to contest a great deal. And against an army like BA I think you're going to lose 2-3 tanks a turn in CC with no screen or board control. Huge amount of firepower though!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/18 07:53:14
Sarigar wrote: Things will be opening up a bit more in the next few weeks. I've get to attend my first ITC one day event this year. Once I complete the bases for the Dire Avengers, the army is painted and ready. After going back and forth, I opted for a Craftworld list instead of a soup list. I haven't played much this year, so am keeping it line with what I am comfortable and knowledgeable with. Plus, I habe not played the new ITC missions at all which will be an added layer of complexity. Below is what I am bringing.
BATTALION
1 Farseer, Singing Spear (115)
1 Warlock (45)
5 Dire Avengers, 6 Avenger Catapult, Shredding Fire (58)
5 Dire Avengers, 6 Avenger Catapult, Shredding Fire (58)
5 Dire Avengers, 6 Avenger Catapult, Shredding Fire (58)
1 Wave Serpent, Twin Starcannon, Twin Catapult, Spirit Stone (156)
1 Wave Serpent, Twin Starcannon, Twin Catapult, Spirit Stone (156)
1 Falcon, Pulse Laser, Starcannon, Twin Catapult, Spirit Stone (125)
1 Falcon, Pulse Laser, Starcannon, Twin Catapult, Spirit Stone (125)
1 Falcon, Pulse Laser, Starcannon, Twin Catapult, Spirit Stone (125)
List looks pretty mean overall and I hope you do well at your tournament!
As far as future changes go, I agree with others that making trades for an Autarch sounds like a good idea. OR drop one Serpent and add two squads of min Dark Reapers to the Spearhead that will sit in the other Serpent. Unfortunately without significant overhaul the only points to squeeze are out of Yvraine.. Either 2x3 with a Tempest Launcher and Rain of Death (which will synergise well with the Spinners for a sh*t ton of no LOS firepower) or 2x3 with an AML and Rapid shot seems solid. Even Better if you can squeeze an Autarch too.
I'd definitely consider drop the 2 wave serpents, take a second batallion with snipers & autarch and roll the spearhead into it for 4 extra cp. Leaves you with 60pts spare change. With that spare change, Striking scorpions with crushing blow/claw exarch (and ghoststep on your warlock) would give you a flex unit for turn 3, to grab an objective or bully something in CC, for 54pts.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/18 09:35:58
Well, a lot of high toughness tanks are hard to deal with by armies will less anti-weapons.
This might work well against elite armies such as Marines with Intercessors where 2 wound weapons are key.
But you might not have enough shots to deal with hordes.
That's the reason why I'm hesitating to field such an army.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Shadow weavers might work out better in this list since you've got so much anti marine type firepower. 9d6 shots could be more valuable than the 6d6 even if they're single damage.
It just depends on the matchups really.
Against elite/armoured lists it should stomp, especially if you get first turn. Against horde board control and fast melee units it will be tougher for sure, your stuff is very quick so if you play cautiously you could be ok.
I played against a 18-aggressor blob last night, it was pretty hench. Each team was close to deleting a falcon or raider every time it shot in tactical doctrine, and that was just the 666pts of aggressors. I just don't put much faith in a list of pure T7 12W 3+ hulls unless you can outrange or outdeploy them. The point being, with 11 of them to deploy that's going to be very hard to do.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/18 12:05:17
I appreciate everyone's input. It is definitely skewed towards elite armies. It is hard for me to know what has changed over the past 4-5 months in which I have had little opportunities to play. I know a couple folks building Sororitas armies, but unsure if that type of army will show up. I will learn soon enough if the local meta has changed drastically over the past few months.
I am concerned about Blood Angel armies and looking at how to contend with their significant assault. Ultimately, I need to get games in against BA to better understand their capabilities. Not sure I want to go second against that particular army. Of all armies, this is one that feels most like my Achilles heel.
For ITC, I had little issues with holding the same number of objectives. I rarely would hold more, but I would also prevent my opponent from holding more as well. I would typically get kill more and tie on objectives each turn. I don't max out scores in this fashion, but can get the win. I generally will move all my vehicles to utilize as objective holders and screen out deep strike. I typically play with under 20 models and learned that my movement phase is critical. However, this is a new ITC mission set and my strategy could fall completely apart (I have not played the new missions yet). And I could walk into a bunch of horde armies...
The Wave Serpents are in a bit of a quandry. Several of you observed the same thing. I definitely appreciate the input. There are a lot of options. Building a second battalion is certainly feasible. I could drop one and add a unit of Dark Reapers which would go into the remaining Wave Serpent. In the past, Wave Serpents were my general all purpose unit. Anti tank, anti infantry, launch an assault against high firepower unit, utilize Serpent Shields to plink off the last wound or two, help position against deep strike, etc...
An Autarch definitely ensures maximum firepower combined with Expert Crafters. Adding a second Battalion detachment has a lot of merit as the number of drops no longer matters. Autarch and 3 x 5 Rangers. Scorpions synergize with Rangers offering the ability to start in Reserve. It definitely would add a bit more flexibility.
Thanks again. I'll work through some numbers and update. The second Battalion detachment appears to be the better direction.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
grouchoben wrote: I played against a 18-aggressor blob last night, it was pretty hench. Each team was close to deleting a falcon or raider every time it shot in tactical doctrine, and that was just the 666pts of aggressors. I just don't put much faith in a list of pure T7 12W 3+ hulls unless you can outrange or outdeploy them. The point being, with 11 of them to deploy that's going to be very hard to do.
I'm guessing they were raven guard to get close enough to fire?
Well, I'd be careful with Rangers in an otherwise fully mobile list.
My experience is that the enemy will move towards your static units no matter what.
And this is what you don't want since you want to dictate the enemy where he/she has to move to.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
grouchoben wrote: I played against a 18-aggressor blob last night, it was pretty hench. Each team was close to deleting a falcon or raider every time it shot in tactical doctrine, and that was just the 666pts of aggressors. I just don't put much faith in a list of pure T7 12W 3+ hulls unless you can outrange or outdeploy them. The point being, with 11 of them to deploy that's going to be very hard to do.
I'm guessing they were raven guard to get close enough to fire?
No, Iron Hands for 3+/5++/5+++ with apothecary, chapter master, ferrios and chaplain.
grouchoben wrote: I played against a 18-aggressor blob last night, it was pretty hench. Each team was close to deleting a falcon or raider every time it shot in tactical doctrine, and that was just the 666pts of aggressors. I just don't put much faith in a list of pure T7 12W 3+ hulls unless you can outrange or outdeploy them. The point being, with 11 of them to deploy that's going to be very hard to do.
I'm guessing they were raven guard to get close enough to fire?
No, Iron Hands for 3+/5++/5+++ with apothecary, chapter master, ferrios and chaplain.
Certainly very tough but how were they getting in range or were you moving forward to them?
I gave 1st turn and back-deployed to deny them first turn. But I run 3xbanshees and 3xwyches, drazhar and yncarne, so couldn't avoid them for more than one turn. They have a decent threat range of an average of 26.5" inches too, so you can't avod them more than one turn unless you get H&A deployment.
I appreciate everyone's input. It is definitely skewed towards elite armies. It is hard for me to know what has changed over the past 4-5 months in which I have had little opportunities to play. I know a couple folks building Sororitas armies, but unsure if that type of army will show up. I will learn soon enough if the local meta has changed drastically over the past few months.
I am concerned about Blood Angel armies and looking at how to contend with their significant assault. Ultimately, I need to get games in against BA to better understand their capabilities. Not sure I want to go second against that particular army. Of all armies, this is one that feels most like my Achilles heel.
For ITC, I had little issues with holding the same number of objectives. I rarely would hold more, but I would also prevent my opponent from holding more as well. I would typically get kill more and tie on objectives each turn. I don't max out scores in this fashion, but can get the win. I generally will move all my vehicles to utilize as objective holders and screen out deep strike. I typically play with under 20 models and learned that my movement phase is critical. However, this is a new ITC mission set and my strategy could fall completely apart (I have not played the new missions yet). And I could walk into a bunch of horde armies...
The Wave Serpents are in a bit of a quandry. Several of you observed the same thing. I definitely appreciate the input. There are a lot of options. Building a second battalion is certainly feasible. I could drop one and add a unit of Dark Reapers which would go into the remaining Wave Serpent. In the past, Wave Serpents were my general all purpose unit. Anti tank, anti infantry, launch an assault against high firepower unit, utilize Serpent Shields to plink off the last wound or two, help position against deep strike, etc...
An Autarch definitely ensures maximum firepower combined with Expert Crafters. Adding a second Battalion detachment has a lot of merit as the number of drops no longer matters. Autarch and 3 x 5 Rangers. Scorpions synergize with Rangers offering the ability to start in Reserve. It definitely would add a bit more flexibility.
Thanks again. I'll work through some numbers and update. The second Battalion detachment appears to be the better direction.
I've moved away from the all dakka list to plenty of dakka with two battalions of bladestorm avengers with asurman. Purely because of melee. I was winning all the shooting match ups but really coming unstuck against the more melee focused opponents like sisters with repentia and slaanesh demons.
I did well yesterday against a black legion demonforge type list just by deploying very defensive with strung out lines of avengers to slow his stuff down. I have lost 300 odd points of bigger guns but the avengers chip in pretty well, especially with overwatch contributions too.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
grouchoben wrote: I gave 1st turn and back-deployed to deny them first turn. But I run 3xbanshees and 3xwyches, drazhar and yncarne, so couldn't avoid them for more than one turn. They have a decent threat range of an average of 26.5" inches too, so you can't avod them more than one turn unless you get H&A deployment.
Ah, yeah running a close combat type list against aggressors isn't fun. I remember taking my salamander army to the local store and getting a game against Tyranids with lots of little bugs. I really felt sorry for the guy, it was just the most horrible matchup for him.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/18 13:52:15
Normally I agree, but Banshees deny overwatch, and charging through ruins is very doable against them, as they love to occupy the centre of the board. And wyches don't really care about powerfists, while aggressors really do care about shardnets.
grouchoben wrote: Normally I agree, but Banshees deny overwatch, and charging through ruins is very doable against them, as they love to occupy the centre of the board. And wyches don't really care about powerfists, while aggressors really do care about shardnets.
Nice combo, especially with war shout making the banshees an additional -1 to hit. I assume the yncarne and drazhar have to do the heavy lifting in terms of damage though?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/18 14:45:37
Worked through the list a bit. For now, I still want to utilize a pure Craftworld army until I can knock the rust off of them.
Regarding Rangers, when I ran them in the past, I rarely started them on the table. I would generally deep strike them into areas making them tough to get to while netting me things like recon points and/line breaker.
Aggressors are a thing, but it comes down to in game decisions. I've faced 17 Ravenguard Centurions (pre FAQ) in a list and found work arounds. Deployment, who has first turn, mortal wound psychic powers, target priority, army familiarity, etc.... are just a part of the game. I am not dismissing them, but they are not something I would reconfigure my list against.
After taking some suggestions, I've adjusted the list slightly.
Looks a more balanced list overall, should work well. I'm still not 100% sold on nightspinners personally, relying on 6's for ap isn't great in my book, but the autarch should help a lot with their accuracy at least.
If you do face sisters start with the rangers on the board. Their characters are pretty squishy and they really rely on them to buff their killer units, if nothing else it may cause them to make mistakes moving since they're liable to want to hide their characters but also keep units within buff range.
Thanks. I think my biggest challenge the same as many others; not being able to game and figure out the ins and outs of a list. My wife will think I'm nuts if I roll out the battle mat just to place models and learn how to zone deep striking and understand overlapping ranges for shooting (I only go into work for an hour or two a day now, so I have extra time on my hands now). I do a lot of pre measuring during the game; if you are a long time player, you may appreciate just how important this is.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
I know what you mean, TTS has been great in that respect for me. My more shooty lists were great on paper and performed really well in games against other shooty lists but it was only when I faced different challenges did certain shortcomings become apparent.
Same, can't say enough good things about TTS, especially at the moment eh? There are lots of cool events going on too if you want to get some competition practice in.
In case you're looking for some quite tactically driven ITC content, the Art Of War Youtube crew have been streaming games. Thought I'd post Nick's list here as it was a little different to what I'd seen, utilising a lot of spears, DAs, Asurmen and the relic hunters/superior shurikens craftworld traits. Here's the video in case anyone is keen to fill up some time
Interesting that hes gone for avenging strikes as opposed to bladestorm.
Im sceptical but wish him luck.
Ive been playing around with the idea for DA horde dar army but then I imagine coming up against massed storm bolters/bolters and decide I will be having a bad day lol.
But hey.. Guess hes vastly more experianced.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/19 02:14:35
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Yeah, AS is pretty good on larger units. Having watched a few games he's just hugging objectives and playing really conservatively with the DAs. Its good to see an endorsement of the guardian bomb as I think that's a lot more fun than lots of msus. Overall I like these games for learning, but there are other channels (tabeltop tactics, SN) that are a little bit more entertaining/easy to follow
HAR Spears worked very well for Sean Nayden at LVO, so I'm not surprised to see them in the list, but the avengers are a bit unexpected. 4++ is nice but it's not a cheap setup by any means, with a 150pt hq. Very interested to see it in action, will go take a peak, thanks!
Eldar- 4436 pts
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 
