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 kingheff wrote:
The biggest potential drawback I can see is their lack of speed. If there's a lot of line of sight blocking they could get outmanoeuvred unless there's a nice place they can for and fade back behind. I think it'll take a few games playing with the new terrain rules will show whether non fly units lose out on too much.

You're right about the mobility

*stares at six unpainted support weapons*

I think I'm going to have to make peace for now with the fact that my army is a bit of a static gunline, with spears walkers and my hand-me-down fire dragons to contest the board. I'll maybe be able to wrestle some synergy from these two elements when I can get near a table next month.

I've got nine vibro cannons done so I'm hoping slower guns can be viable too!
The smaller board size could make d-cannons interesting for vehicles in the midfield though.

Granted, LOS ignore and confirmed blast in 9th in case you wanted to absolutely dunk on aggressors. It looks like death guard are an army to beat in 9th so if you want to delete units of 6+ monsters then they're a strong shout.

whilst I havent quite joined the dots there might be hijinx to be had with the new reserve rule and support weapons

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
hijinx

Barbachop wrote:Granted, LOS ignore and confirmed blast in 9th in case you wanted to absolutely dunk on aggressors. It looks like death guard are an army to beat in 9th so if you want to delete units of 6+ monsters then they're a strong shout.

Barbachop wrote:

 kingheff wrote:
The biggest potential drawback I can see is their lack of speed. If there's a lot of line of sight blocking they could get outmanoeuvred unless there's a nice place they can for and fade back behind. I think it'll take a few games playing with the new terrain rules will show whether non fly units lose out on too much.

You're right about the mobility

*stares at six unpainted support weapons*

I think I'm going to have to make peace for now with the fact that my army is a bit of a static gunline, with spears walkers and my hand-me-down fire dragons to contest the board. I'll maybe be able to wrestle some synergy from these two elements when I can get near a table next month.

I think a bigger blob of reapers might be good. With LOS blocking terrain as standard feature fire and fading them as well as hiding in serpent or falcoln might be it for me.

Also, support weapons have the vehicle keyword as well as guardian keyword.

With LFR probably no longer soaking up a lot of the CP, you could potentialy run d cannons and give them celestial shield as well as have them in cover. And they could also move and shoot without penalty so vibros are still good. But I think I am looking at runing 2x d cannons and 4 vibros or 2x d cannon and 4 weavers (probly the latetr for horde clearing).

Then have 5 man blob of reapers with rapid shot and falcons and wraith lords and a couple vypers. Most likely looking at brigade with 2x storm guardians and 4x DA min squads for objective grabbing.
Not sure what supreme command means for my ynnari wraithseer thing.

I will bash some lists together

^ I missed the infantry keyword implications, that's very interesting to think about strategems. Feeling a decent bit better about my backline. 100% gunline armies might not be ideal but the supp weapon/ec synergy just seems too good to pass up, and yeah I think some D cannons creeping in might be a solid idea.

With the change to objectives to "domination style" hold ( no need to stand on the objectives) hopefully a solid backline to hold down a third of the board, with some fast moving objective grabbers should do quite well as anything your opponent leaves behind in his advance is easy pickings.

In respect to the support weapons, they become individual units once deployed. LFR would only work Mon one support weapon.

Supreme Command no longer works the same. Primarch, Chaos Primarch, Low, or Supreme Commander (New keyword?).

 Sarigar wrote:
In respect to the support weapons, they become individual units once deployed. LFR would only work Mon one support weapon.

Supreme Command no longer works the same. Primarch, Chaos Primarch, Low, or Supreme Commander (New keyword?).

I thinks its more that we wont be burning CP every round on the lfr usual suspects so frees up CP for something else

The deploy quirk is part of the reserves idea I am pondering as being able to drip feed them on to the table as needed could be handy

I've had a fun thought about avenging strikes Dire avengers.
Obviously there's the max squad in a serpent and waiting for an explosion to lose one or two but how about cheesing the new coherency? Just put one out of coherency at the end of the unit and you can hide first turn, lose one from coherency and profit from that beautiful +1 to hit and wound for the rest of the game.
Sixty in a death star around Asurman looks like a lot of fun!

 kingheff wrote:
I've had a fun thought about avenging strikes Dire avengers.
Obviously there's the max squad in a serpent and waiting for an explosion to lose one or two but how about cheesing the new coherency? Just put one out of coherency at the end of the unit and you can hide first turn, lose one from coherency and profit from that beautiful +1 to hit and wound for the rest of the game.
Sixty in a death star around Asurman looks like a lot of fun!

you cant deploy or end your move out of coherency

Damnit! Thwarting my devious Eldar trickery.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

 Sarigar wrote:
In respect to the support weapons, they become individual units once deployed. LFR would only work Mon one support weapon.

Supreme Command no longer works the same. Primarch, Chaos Primarch, Low, or Supreme Commander (New keyword?).

I think its more that we won't be burning CP every round on the lfr usual suspects so frees up CP for something else

The deploy quirk is part of the reserves idea I am pondering as being able to drip feed them on to the table as needed could be handy

Ooh I didint consider dropping support weapons as DS..
Would be potentially Savage to drop 3x D cannons I think. Given their shortish range might be ideal to plonk behind LOS blocking terrain and blap stuff then spread out the following turns.

They have the guardian keyword but are vehicles interestingly enough. I have thrown people off with a cheeky celestial shield before when they threw some heavy-duty AT to get an easy kill.

And yes I meant we are unlikely to spend cp for LFR if it doesn't stack with conceal or natural abilities or traits. A -1 I can get from terrain will be sufficient in most cases and with the amount of rerolls its unlikely to be worth the 2CP..
Its a big shame my shadow specters will no longer be -3 :(

Do we know if ignore LOS also ignores terrain modifiers to hit ?

 Argive wrote:

Do we know if ignore LOS also ignores terrain modifiers to hit ?

Reading through the terrain section of the rules there's no mention of LOS ignoring shots avoiding the bonus to saves from Dense Cover (-1 to hit from ranged if 3" tall, doesn't apply to defenders, doesn't give bonus to aircraft or 18+w models)

No mention in the light cover, obscuring, nor the shooting phase section.

Doesnt Masterful Shot ignore cover assuming EC/MS as stock trait, although a patrol with a couple of suicide guardian blobs along with some support weapon with EC and Military citizens (?)(the guardian re-roll 1s trait) might theoryhammer quite well

FF Fortifications: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/10/fort-building-warhammer-40000-style/

No sign of the Web Way Gate. Guess even GW can't justify it.

So...

For my Iyanden Wraith army, I now have to pay an extra 3cp for my Wraithknight, and it does no longer get the Iyanden trait. Really GW?

I think you should still get the craftworld trait, will cost you the 3cp though.

Agusto wrote:
So...

For my Iyanden Wraith army, I now have to pay an extra 3cp for my Wraithknight, and it does no longer get the Iyanden trait. Really GW?

Fingers crossed we can take it as a Supreme Commander somehow. That or they move it into the regular Heavy slot in the Day One FAQ.

I'm curious about the Wraithknight. For the model to not receive Craftworld benefits is....off. Maybe an FAQ or a new codex in the near future?

Yeah some custom traits could have made the WK almost playable.

But in this new world its simply absolutely not justifiable unless you are having a ver very laid back game...

I hope they fix him in the new dex whenever we get it. I wonder about the points

Have they changed the super heavy auxillary detachment? The wraithknight got the traits in 8th, I thought it was just things like guard super heavies didn't get the traits because it was specifically mentioned in their codex?

 Argive wrote:
Do we know if ignore LOS also ignores terrain modifiers to hit ?

RAW, no, because the LoS check for terrain is its own separate check from the LoS check to fire a weapon.

 kingheff wrote:
Have they changed the super heavy auxillary detachment? The wraithknight got the traits in 8th, I thought it was just things like guard super heavies didn't get the traits because it was specifically mentioned in their codex?

Yes. It states Super Heavy Auxiliaries, Auxiliary, and Fortification detachments never gain Detachment abilities. Craftworld traits fall under this category.

Play more aggressively – your plan for taking and holding meaningful numbers of objectives needs to begin from your first turn.

Trade more aggressively – spending units to earn or deny points has a more concrete impact, and you have less time to use them anyway!

Deploy most of my objective grabbers on the board – I want some durable threats I can push forward onto objectives straight away.

You can read this at goonhammer.
It appears that the competitive play is now vastly different.
Tanks are great for holding objectives but our infantry and whatnot are still rather squishy.
Need to rethink of army building and tactics.

 Sarigar wrote:

 kingheff wrote:
Have they changed the super heavy auxillary detachment? The wraithknight got the traits in 8th, I thought it was just things like guard super heavies didn't get the traits because it was specifically mentioned in their codex?

Yes. It states Super Heavy Auxiliaries, Auxiliary, and Fortification detachments never gain Detachment abilities. Craftworld traits fall under this category.

Ah, didn't realise they'd updated the detachment rules like that. The wraithknight really isn't looking like it's in a great spot.

Been thinking about it and I feel like lists need to bring some shooting (to kill things off objectives across the table, or to defend against enemy objective stealers) and melee (to steal objectives from enemy units).

Problem is the only army who does both effectively wears power armour since you also need durability to actually score primaries.

I feel like Eldar might have to play the game of maximizing secondaries and denying primaries since we've got mobility to do that, and we have some decently killy weapons, but not the durbility to hold ground.

So thinking Serpent spam might be back on the menu, maybe splash of Falcons for more pewpew and extra hiding places for our squishy footsloggers

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
So thinking Serpent spam might be back on the menu, maybe splash of Falcons for more pewpew and extra hiding places for our squishy footsloggers

Mechdar looks like a good early edition build, depending on how points shift going forward.

flacolns with Scorpions payload as objective grabbers. heard it here first folks