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I'm of the veiw that points across all factions are going to be a best guess rollercoaster for at least the next 2 CA and/or faq cycles, and The Event stopping events means in game feedback, however skewed, is going to limited

Also think the talk of granularity was a tad "I do not think that word means what you think it means", and whilst I dont have the sum-fu to back it up starting by doubling everything then tweaking seems to give far more wiggle room

But tabletime will tell

Well, a lot of my takes made out pretty well. Vibro cannons, falcons, vypers and dire avengers didn't do too badly.

Wraith stuff feels decent, though now the swords and D-scythes are the mlre expensice options to take for some reason.

Ghost axe wraithblades looking very good with only a 5ppm increase. No idea who decided that the sword blades should be an extra 10 ppm though, that's crazy.

 kingheff wrote:
Ghost axe wraithblades looking very good with only a 5ppm increase. No idea who decided that the sword blades should be an extra 10 ppm though, that's crazy.

Yeah, that feels a bit crazy.

There are several units where the Goonhammer gents feel mistakes may have been made; GW rolled a lot of unique weapons costs into the models, and then made the more expensive options a points bump. There are some cases where it clearly looks like they forgot to tidy up with zero-ing out the base weapon choice. This might be one of those. We'll have to wait for FAQ to find out of course.

Looks like CTM now changes heavy to assault if the vehicle advances. Interesting...

 kingheff wrote:
Looks like CTM now changes heavy to assault if the vehicle advances. Interesting...

Opens up options on WS if you were going to do something like aggressively push them up the table first turn, and disgorge something mean the following. Before I took the shuricans, pushed up, shot/ate fire, and then the scytheguard got out and messed up the stuff around them turn 2.

Now you can take things like starcannons, and do the same thing.

 Verthane wrote:
There are several units where the Goonhammer gents feel mistakes may have been made; GW rolled a lot of unique weapons costs into the models, and then made the more expensive options a points bump. There are some cases where it clearly looks like they forgot to tidy up with zero-ing out the base weapon choice. This might be one of those. We'll have to wait for FAQ to find out of course.

Yeah a unit of 5 fire dragons jumped from 110 to 165 points, before you pay for your 9e exarch. A nice 50% bump for a unit that hasn't seen a final tournament table in a long time. I think the point is correct about not accounting for the extra weapons cost, however if the points listed are those that appear in the book that GW puts out for more than a few pennies, on top of the shiny new rulebook cost then I really have to question the value of such a tome.

 Barbachop wrote:


Yeah a unit of 5 fire dragons jumped from 110 to 165 points, before you pay for your 9e exarch. A nice 50% bump for a unit that hasn't seen a final tournament table in a long time. I think the point is correct about not accounting for the extra weapons cost, however if the points listed are those that appear in the book that GW puts out for more than a few pennies, on top of the shiny new rulebook cost then I really have to question the value of such a tome.

Aren't fire dragon weapons included in their base cost, yielding a net increase of only one point per model?

Wow Eldar troops got hit hard. In the FAQ rangers lost their -1 to be hit.

I hope so - I haveen't seen the data sheet just going off of Striking Scorpions video today. Hopefully 10 points for the fusion gun is character only

 Verthane wrote:

 Barbachop wrote:


Yeah a unit of 5 fire dragons jumped from 110 to 165 points, before you pay for your 9e exarch. A nice 50% bump for a unit that hasn't seen a final tournament table in a long time. I think the point is correct about not accounting for the extra weapons cost, however if the points listed are those that appear in the book that GW puts out for more than a few pennies, on top of the shiny new rulebook cost then I really have to question the value of such a tome.

Aren't fire dragon weapons included in their base cost, yielding a net increase of only one point per model?

This is correct. Minimum unit of 5 dragons is 115 points now.

That's good news, makes me feel a bit better about the book in general.That's a lot more value added onto FDs

Some random highlights:

Shadow Weavers 37 > 50
Vibro Cannons 35 > 45
Wave Serpent (minimum loadout) 134 > 141
Windriders (scatter laser) 23 > 30
Crimson Hunter Exarchs (starcannons) 176 > 200
Dark Reapers 31 > 35
Shining Spears 30 > 35

It's interesting Vibros got mentioned in the FAQ confirming their wound rolls being capped at +1 unless you encounter models with -1 to wound modifiers. AP can still scale to +3, but wounds can't. I think considering the interaction with how support weapons use EC they're still very strong indeed.

If they don't change the rules for Hornets, CTM will be a nice addition for them.


Looking at the terrain rules with the rules and point values, 10 strong Warlock Conclave looks to be a possible aggressive unit backed by Wave Serpents and Dire Avengers.

Overall points and FAQ/Errata has little other surprises for me. The hard part is coming to terms with the army being smaller.

Honestly it feels like army lists aren't really going to change much outside of dropping some toys here or there. Too much of the army just didn't punch at it's points level and still doesn't. With everyone in the game seeing a points bump on their troops I don't feel we're worse off, we just need to be more concious of the options we throw on our units.

The points changes seem fairly similar over all the factions, broadly speaking. There are definitely winners and losers but a lot of it seems to be internal balancing changes rather than factions getting big changes, though of course some have come out better than others.
The big thing looks to be finding lists that play the mission well since killing isn't much of a reward in itself but rather something that's done in service of the mission.

It's not just missions that matter either, surviving is paramount with the way objectives work, and surviving isn't an overwhelming attribute of the glass hammer nature of a lot of our units. I wonder if competitive eldar in 9th boils down to wraith units and wave serpents.

Well, that's what I meant really. Being able to take and hold objectives is the most reliable way of winning the mission. Obviously you still need to be able to clear the enemy off of objectives so offence is still vital.
I still think I'm looking at a masterful shots/superior shuriken battalion with avengers, vypers, falcons and Psykers and an expert crafters/masterful shots spearhead for vibro cannons and Asurman as a rough framework.

Yes, falcons/serpents for sure. I just finished nine vibro cannons before all this happened, that thankfully wasn't a waste. I also think hornets will be good, I have three also recently finished, going to test those soon.

Being able to aggressively push while simultaneously grabbing objectives will be key. Worked out a preliminary list that can push fairly hard to protect the units trying to score. I'd also spend 1 CP to make it a Windrider Host.

The 12 CP opens up a lot of stratagem options to hopefully synergize with such a smaller army.

BATTALION
1 Farseer Skyrunner 135, Spear 5 (140)
10 Warlock Conclave Skyrunner 550, 9 x Spear 45 (595)
2 Warlock Conclave (80)

5 Dire Avengers, Exarch, Avenging Strike (65)
5 Dire Avengers, Exarch, Avenging Strike (65)
5 Dire Avengers, Exarch, Avenging Strike (65)
5 Dire Avengers, Exarch, Avenging Strike (65)

6 Shining Spears 210, Star Lance 5 (215)

9 Wraithblades Axe/Shield (360)

1 Wave Serpent 130, Twin Starcannon 30, CTM 5, Spirit Stones 10 (175)
1 Wave Serpent 130, Twin Starcannon 30, CTM 5, Spirit Stones 10 (175)


2000 Pts
12 CP
Warlord: Farseer, Wild Rider
Relic: Phoenix Gem
Craftworld Traits: Hunters of Ancient Relics, Savage Blades

Psychic Powers
Farseer: Focus Will, Doom, Fortune
Warlock Skyrunner Conclave: Quicken/Restrain, Protect/Jinx, Conceal/Reveal, Smite
Warlock Conclave: Enhance/Restrain, Ghostwalk

I might be careful doing expensive models in units >5. It's no big deal vs. d6 and better guns but there's several d3 shot guns out there that can pack a punch and giving the freebie 3-shots means a lot more value there.

It doesn't really matter for squishy infantry, since the max loss is an additional cheap model, but when it's an additional Wraithblade or Shining Spear, you know?

I was thinking of basing an army around Assurman, a warlock, a serpent and, 3 full units of Avengers with Avenging Strike. The idea would be to load the warlock, Assurman and 1 full unit in the serpent and deliver them to a central objective. The warlock would have protect. Then I would shuttle the serpent back to pick up another unit of Avengers while the 3rd unit should be able to make it to the central point on their own by no later than the 3rd turn. This gives you 3 units of Avengers with 3++ and probably all of them shooting at +1 to hit and wound. The second and third units are mostly there to keep filling in loses but should still give you good fire support. Also having a 5+ overwatch (before vetern status is added in) should make them tough to dislodge.

 peteralmo wrote:
It's not just missions that matter either, surviving is paramount with the way objectives work, and surviving isn't an overwhelming attribute of the glass hammer nature of a lot of our units. I wonder if competitive eldar in 9th boils down to wraith units and wave serpents.

Early 9th, sure. But this game is going to go through going pains as we all adapt and learn to play the new game format.

Codexes will make or break this edition as well.

I have been working toward something like this:

Farseer bike
Warlock bike
Warlock bike

5 scorps (-1 hit exarch)
5 scorps (-1 hit exarch)

5 Avengers (avenging Ex)
5 Avengers (avenging Ex)
5 Avengers (avenging Ex)

5 hawks (supressing Ex)
5 Spiders (redeploy Ex)
2 Hornets dual Pulse

Fire Prism stones
Fire Prism stones
2 D cannons

3 Scatter Serpents w stones
--------

Not 100% if the points line up, but a similar (slightly more fleshed out version) with 8th ed points played to secondaries very well!

Honestly I think this explains why way back in our 9th edition faction focus the guy said that Dire Avengers with a shimmershield is the way to go. We were all like "Is he trolling?" but now that we know the missions and points it makes sense. An exarch with shimmershield is the same price as an exarch with dual catapaults. And since you can't shoot while performing an action anyway, there is no point in giving the exarch extra guns if you are going to use the DA's to capture objectives. You want the survivability of the 5++ instead.

What are we thinking of for go-to secondaries? I'm thinking Table Quarters for most games, maybe raise the banner, and attrition for wraith heavy builds. But I'm not really sure if those are our best picks.

I mean maybe a Warlock casting one of the Psychic powers why hidden away in the darkest corner of the table?

 ClockworkZion wrote:
What are we thinking of for go-to secondaries? I'm thinking Table Quarters for most games, maybe raise the banner, and attrition for wraith heavy builds. but I'm not really sure.

Some would eventually argue that Eldar should in the first place go for the secondary and hamper the enemy to get the primaries.