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With the Wraithblades as described, I would look at Hunters of Ancient Relics as a possible Craftworld trait. In order to get the position you mention, Quicken would likely be an important power to utilize. Protect and Fortune are the two staple powers associated with large Wraithblade units.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
Sarigar wrote: With the Wraithblades as described, I would look at Hunters of Ancient Relics as a possible Craftworld trait. In order to get the position you mention, Quicken would likely be an important power to utilize. Protect and Fortune are the two staple powers associated with large Wraithblade units.
Why not the masters of concealment?
I'm not sure what the "benefit of cover" means in 9th (+1 save? -1 to hit?)
Alaitoic is also pretty strong, as always.
But it's useless within 12" you may say. Well, now they're within 12" of the center which you can use to get around the sides or sneak in a corner somewhere.
I'm just hoping for something different for Biel-Tan when the next Codex rolls around. The current trait doesn't exactly do wonders for an all Aspect Warrior army that utilizes a wide variety of units.
Im also hoping that The Avatar becomes a Supreme Commander and gets the same steroid treatment the Greater Daemons got.
Wonder how quickly the Codex's will be released this time round. I suspect given we've at least got the 8th ed ones to fall back on it'll be a much slower pace.
Space Wolves - Alpha Legion - Biel-Tan - Reikland - Lizardmen of Hexoatl - Slaaneshi Daemons
I didn't make mention of Masters of Concealment. You get to choose two Craftworld traits the exception of one trait. I mentioned one that is not as widely used, but would benefit Wraithblades.
Armies will likely change in the next few months, but I don't rate Masters of Concealment very high currently. I tend to face many armies or units that ignore cover. I don't particularly like Craftworld Traits that can be mitigated in such a fashion (a big reason I stoped using Alaitoc once the Craftworld Traits were released). Additionally, the missions and terrain will force armies to get closer and long range shooting will become less dominant.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
Wraiths are tanky, but costly. With everyone and their dog spec'd into anti-intercessor tech wraiths are often an easy pickup, and they tend to be built around, so that leads to failed plans more often than not. I love the way they look but rarely feel they're worth the points, especially with the hike.
After mulling the secondary objectives (CA 2020, I suspect will simply add more rather than replace), building a list around objectives appears more and more critical to win the game. It may sound obvious, but how does one go about it?
For the Primary missions, mobility and objective secured appear critically important. I think many are already leaning towards DA and Wave Serpents in a pure Craftworld army. I still think a combination of DA and Harlequin Troupes can be a solid choice for this duty.
The secondaries appear very specific. I think trying to take advantage of Craftworld mobility can be key. Two secondaries, from different sections, can be earned by the same unit(s).
Line breaker and Repair Teleport Homer look to give up a large amount of points which Craftworld can begin to earn on turn 1.
Looking at Warp Spiders and Rangers can be units that gain secondary objectives but look so bad on paper, opponents may or may not want to invest resources to deal with it.
The Exarch power Web of Deceit allows a Warp Spider unit to be placed anywhere on the table, outside of 9" of enemy units. Taking two units of 5 strong and send them into the enemy deployment zone on turn 1. Gain 4 points for Line Breaker. Hide them as well as possible. Declare one to Repair Teleport Homer (pick the one unit less likely to be removed by your opponent) and gain 5 points during your next command phase.
On turn two, drop in via Seen Unbidden a unit of Alaitoc Rangers. It seems like a single unit on the table is better suited as you can play the Alaitoc Rangers stratagem where they can only be hit by shooting on 6. I'm also looking at an Autarch with the Shiftshroud who can also enter play from Reserves. That is another two units that can garner points from these two secondaries. And, the Autarch can be used for the Repair Teleport Homer; just needs the infantry keyword and can be a character.
A third secondary can be the Mental Interrogation or Psychic Ritual and utilize a Wraithseer. The rules may change, but its psychic powers are the least likely to be missed while trying to score a secondary. Have other psykers in the list as back up, but then it will become a bit harder to choose; score points or bolster force with psychic powers.
I think another strategy is to have some brick type unit that forces your opponent to respond. There are many examples, but I'm currently leaning to Warlock Skyrunner Conclave. I hope to play it this weekend to test it out. I'd spend the 1 CP for Windrider detachment to further make this unit very difficult to deal with.
Below is a list to give an idea of how a list might look.
Right now, taking first turn appears to provide a lot of advantage as the list can get right into position and have the Warlock Conclave immediately provide a threat that must be dealt with creating a hard choice for the opponent.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/16 09:58:24
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
Nice analysis! Personally I think psychic actions will quickly dominate our secondary tactics due to the quite tanky 60pt Spiritseers we can throw at that secondary - troop actions are a poor choice for us, imo, unless we go deep into guardian blobs. 6 wounds of spiders, the destruction of which stops us scoring 5vp, is just too important for your opponent to ignore. 20 Guardians with celestial shield and protect would do the job, but that's an obscene 200pts without platforms.
still a bit wary of the ritual secondary as its a bit all or nothing and having it denied on a low cast roll or the various counterspell strats will hurt
"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED."
grouchoben wrote: Nice analysis! Personally I think psychic actions will quickly dominate our secondary tactics due to the quite tanky 60pt Spiritseers we can throw at that secondary - troop actions are a poor choice for us, imo, unless we go deep into guardian blobs. 6 wounds of spiders, the destruction of which stops us scoring 5vp, is just too important for your opponent to ignore. 20 Guardians with celestial shield and protect would do the job, but that's an obscene 200pts without platforms.
What do mean by troop actions?
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
the secondary objective like data recovery or raise banners, as we dont really have the cheap bodies to forego dakka, cos elf tax(weighted partly on a stat deemed unfair to Marines so had to go)
"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED."
Turnip Jedi wrote: the secondary objective like data recovery or raise banners, as we dont really have the cheap bodies to forego dakka, cos elf tax(weighted partly on a stat deemed unfair to Marines so had to go)
To explain it further, in order to fulfill a data recovery or raise banner secondary objective, a unit has to forgo shooting and instead choose to perform one of these "actions." Is that basically the gist of the new rule? I'm a little confused myself.
Turnip Jedi wrote: the secondary objective like data recovery or raise banners, as we dont really have the cheap bodies to forego dakka, cos elf tax(weighted partly on a stat deemed unfair to Marines so had to go)
To explain it further, in order to fulfill a data recovery or raise banner secondary objective, a unit has to forgo shooting and instead choose to perform one of these "actions." Is that basically the gist of the new rule? I'm a little confused myself.
Pretty much its usually do action x after movement ( but not advancing ) and forego anything else and the pskyer ones prevent other casts and so far you can only do each action once per turn
"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED."
They are generally difficult to achieve. The challenge I have are the ones where you need to perform the action on an objective or near the center of the board. To me, it can create a situation of putting your models in higher risk the challenge to mitigate it.
Repair Teleport Homer at least allows some mitigation factors.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
I believe we should get better balanced secondaries in chapter approved if the grapevine is to be believed.
Hope so, most of these are pretty underwhelming.
kingheff wrote: I believe we should get better balanced secondaries in chapter approved if the grapevine is to be believed.
Hope so, most of these are pretty underwhelming.
part of me still thinks people are weighing them against the ITC or other comp system where maxing them was the expectation, but with a fixed turn limit it might be that 9-12 is a more realistic aim with 15 being a outlier of hot dice in magic christmas land
although would be cool to see traits, options or strats that play with objectives and vp rather than the do more dakka / soak more dakka that the majority boil down to
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/16 18:44:27
"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED."
I get the feeling Repair Teleport Homer and Engage On All Fronts will be great for cheap deep strikers. Pressure your opponent into diverting forces from the mid board in order to deal with your deep strikers or screen them out.
If they don't, you drop two squads in your opponent's deployment zone, in cover, out of LOS, and score an easy 15-30 points.
slave.entity wrote: I get the feeling Repair Teleport Homer and Engage On All Fronts will be great for cheap deep strikers. Pressure your opponent into diverting forces from the mid board in order to deal with your deep strikers or screen them out.
If they don't, you drop two squads in your opponent's deployment zone, in cover, out of LOS, and score an easy 15-30 points.
I played a game with Drukhari and found this to be absolutely the case. I'm on the fence whether Engage on All Fronts is better or Linebreaker.
Vs an opponent who just absolutely does not screen his backfield, and instead goes all in on the big metaball fortress that I'm seeing a lot of lists doing, taking 2-3 cheap deep strikers like scorpion squads with the -1 to hit in cover trait and just dropping them into the backline to repair the teleport homer is ridiculously obnoxious. But vs an opponent who does a better job screening, just taking a couple and dropping them in 1 squad at a time to get Engage points is more reliable.
I'm also curious about Raise the Banners for CWE, if you have a lot of shimmershield Dire Avengers and min ranger squads. Definitely I think secondaries are for forcing your opponent to play a less lethal game by targeting stupid, tough to kill, low offensive output units instead of what he really wants to kill, and I thiink they're vital for making high mobility armies work in 9th.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
So mulling it over I feel Wraiths have their place in the army, but likely as a block of Wraithblades with Axes supported by a Fortune casting Farseer.
I don't think high volume blast is the real threat to the unit as much as it is D3 blast with high damage. D6 averages a dead Wraith 60% of the time, so supporting a block is fairly important.
Basically I feel the anti-vehicle meta that is cropping up might hurt our more durable units more than initially thought about.
slave.entity wrote: I get the feeling Repair Teleport Homer and Engage On All Fronts will be great for cheap deep strikers. Pressure your opponent into diverting forces from the mid board in order to deal with your deep strikers or screen them out.
If they don't, you drop two squads in your opponent's deployment zone, in cover, out of LOS, and score an easy 15-30 points.
I played a game with Drukhari and found this to be absolutely the case. I'm on the fence whether Engage on All Fronts is better or Linebreaker.
Vs an opponent who just absolutely does not screen his backfield, and instead goes all in on the big metaball fortress that I'm seeing a lot of lists doing, taking 2-3 cheap deep strikers like scorpion squads with the -1 to hit in cover trait and just dropping them into the backline to repair the teleport homer is ridiculously obnoxious. But vs an opponent who does a better job screening, just taking a couple and dropping them in 1 squad at a time to get Engage points is more reliable.
I'm also curious about Raise the Banners for CWE, if you have a lot of shimmershield Dire Avengers and min ranger squads. Definitely I think secondaries are for forcing your opponent to play a less lethal game by targeting stupid, tough to kill, low offensive output units instead of what he really wants to kill, and I thiink they're vital for making high mobility armies work in 9th.
Imagine if striking scorpions and swooping hawks become meta. Oh man...
I heard Nanavati talking on stream yesterday about 70 avenging strikes dire avengers, loaded up in 6 wave serpents, backed up by Asurmen...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/16 20:28:04
kingheff wrote: I believe we should get better balanced secondaries in chapter approved if the grapevine is to be believed.
Hope so, most of these are pretty underwhelming.
part of me still thinks people are weighing them against the ITC or other comp system where maxing them was the expectation, but with a fixed turn limit it might be that 9-12 is a more realistic aim with 15 being a outlier of hot dice in magic christmas land
although would be cool to see traits, options or strats that play with objectives and vp rather than the do more dakka / soak more dakka that the majority boil down to
It could be deliberate design and possibly is, but they're not very balanced so I hope the full matched play versions are better. Playing a knight list means you're just giving away Titan slayer for 15 VP, but then maybe you choose attrition for probable easy VP, it's a weird one. Guess we'll find out soon.
Imagine if striking scorpions and swooping hawks become meta. Oh man...
I heard Nanavati talking on stream yesterday about 70 avenging strikes dire avengers, loaded up in 6 wave serpents, backed up by Asurmen...
If Scorpions hadn't received such a big price hike I'd have probably run a brigade so it's a bit of a shame.
Nick soon corrected himself on that one though, I believe, saying you don't need that many Avengers, but that may be because he runs Harlequin players too. Nick tends to run crazy builds that require far too much finesse in the movement phase for a mere mortal like myself to try to undertake!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/17 06:46:28
Lawrence giving the 10 man seer council a run out vs iron warriors on TT today for those with a sub. Keen to see how that works out, however I have purposely hidden my bank card from myself as I really really shouldnt buy any more models before playing this accursed game...
TT also heavily prefaced their game with a good few minutes discussion on 9th, making the point that we haven't seen the codices yet and suggesting that they had at least in some form, and this makes a heavily positive change to army composition/gameplay
Barbachop wrote: Lawrence giving the 10 man seer council a run out vs iron warriors on TT today for those with a sub. Keen to see how that works out, however I have purposely hidden my bank card from myself as I really really shouldnt buy any more models before playing this accursed game...
TT also heavily prefaced their game with a good few minutes discussion on 9th, making the point that we haven't seen the codices yet and suggesting that they had at least in some form, and this makes a heavily positive change to army composition/gameplay
Fair point, though maybe phantasm's advantage is heightened by having a large core of power in a position to best take advantage of your enemy's weak side, and with the changes to who goes first that strategem is definitely one of our S tier strats.
Not sure about quicken myself. He did one tap the demon prince in a combat with jinx and 10 witch striking warlocks. I think they actually misread the rule as Lawrence explains it as flat 3 damage when I understood it as 10d3+20 damage, wounding anything on 2s. Jinx offsets the lack of ap somewhat.
kingheff wrote: I thought witch strike only affects one of the warlocks weapons not the whole unit or am I misremembering?
I think this is correct upon reading the entry again
FAQ reads
"Q: How does the Witch Strike Rune of Fortune psychic power work when manifested by a Warlock Conclave unit with more than one model?
A: The psychic power applies to the model you select when you are asked to select a model to measure range, check visibility, etc. from."
From watching the VOD as played it looks like it was affecting the whole unit
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/17 13:16:00
9000 pts 
6000 pts 
3500 ---> KEEP CALM AND XENOS 
