Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I guess it depends on how squishy the characters are but a sniping Exarch with a reaper launcher would also be pretty scary. 48" range practically covers the whole board now.

true but the ability itself only has 18" (?) reach

Oh, I was not aware. That limits its usefulness quite a bit. Not sure it's worth sacrificing 70 points of reapers to get the exarch in range for that.

maybe but sniping out a cheap hq thats generating vp by sitting on an objective or doing some secondary might be worth it

I was thinking about a squad of five or six fire and fading forwards and backwards behind obscuring cover. Even if the sniping potential comes to nothing you still get a good squad of reapers and a tempest launcher.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
true but the ability itself only has 18" (?) reach

The idea was floated of taking 2 squads of Dark Reapers and deep strike within the 18" range to snipe out characters on turn 2. Not sure 115 points per squad of 3 is worth the points, but combined with Masterful Shots, it could be a unique tactic that would prove difficult to defend against.

I suppose at that point it's kind of like a GSC Sanctus. But worse, and double the point cost.

The deepstrike plan is probably too expensive now but I think the ability is a nice bonus as long as the unit itself is worth taking an reapers only went up 4pts each I believe? The tempest launcher is extra on top but worth it for the good indirect fire.

Has anyone read about how the Custom Craftworld attribute: Masterful Shots, will work in 9th. Targeted enemy units don't receive the benefit of cover. Will I be able to target a unit behind a ruin, because they don't get that bonus? Or is the attribute pointless since "cover" doesn't exist in 9th?

So I went ahead and snagged the app today and decided to check put one of the points issues we'd been wondering about in the 9th ed Chapter Approved and Wraithblades are 40ppm with no cost for swords, axes or shields:


So that's nice.

That makes more sense, I figured it was a mistake. Axe wraithblades still looks like the best bet though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Snuffling through the app I noticed the hemlock now has an assault 3 instead of d3 profile for it flamers which is nice. AML can fire the crack version into melee since only the frag profile has blast. Not sure if that was confirmed previously.
Anyone else noticed any little changes?

Agusto wrote:
Has anyone read about how the Custom Craftworld attribute: Masterful Shots, will work in 9th. Targeted enemy units don't receive the benefit of cover. Will I be able to target a unit behind a ruin, because they don't get that bonus? Or is the attribute pointless since "cover" doesn't exist in 9th?

standing in a ruin makes you visible and you can shoot out of it with a +1 bonus to your save. So it negates armour saves for standing in cover. Thats my understanding

Watched a game with Richard Seiglar and Nick Nanavati and I have to my concerns about 5 man Dire Avengers is pretyy on point: namely because the units evaporate. I get the benefits, but I just don't think a T3, 4+ body is tough enough to spam as MSU.

Well, at least not unless you're sticking 2 5 mans in a Wave Serpent to cap each objective.

If you're not running that sort of Mechdar list don't expect them hold objectives for more than two turns tops since objectives aren't inside terrain.

Yes, proper terrain can break up the table quite a bit, but you have to be able cap the objective in then open so anything that can get line of sight on you is likely not suffering any sort of shooting penalty (save for dense terrain which works if you draw a through it).

As for secondaries, I feel like the killing secondaries give free points, but they're hard to max (kill 150 models to max the anti-horde one, kill more units than you lose for 3-4 turns to max the anti-MSU), so I'd tailor that one for my opponent for some easy points, but focus my other secondaries into the hold and hold more types since the army has the movement and hiding stuff while scoring secondaries isn't too hard.

The Taunar match? Agreed on the DAs, even as Nick runs them with 4++ our strength isn't bullying opponents off of 2 objectives or out tanking them, so unless you can rely on trading secondaries perfectly I feel we're in trouble vs any army that bullys us off of objectives. Everything in Scotland is still on lockdown so I'm yet to play any matches but I hypothesised 2 wave serpents running DAs making a run for early objectives while my wraithblades/possible guardian blob took the other might be viable. Tabletop Titans advocated double Wave serpent with msu DAs as a durable objective grabber which I think holds up as that takes a decent amount to punch through, so theres a decent chance that a buffed up blob can do work elsewhere, but I'm yet to see if that stands up to the real winners of early 9th.

They played a similar match last night with Nick on A heavy DA list vs World Eaters and he struggles to force the action, with the World Eaters winning on primaries and a lot of points from Engage On All Fronts

 Barbachop wrote:
The Taunar match? Agreed on the DAs, even as Nick runs them with 4++ our strength isn't bullying opponents off of 2 objectives or out tanking them, so unless you can rely on trading secondaries perfectly I feel we're in trouble vs any army that bullys us off of objectives. Everything in Scotland is still on lockdown so I'm yet to play any matches but I hypothesised 2 wave serpents running DAs making a run for early objectives while my wraithblades/possible guardian blob took the other might be viable. Tabletop Titans advocated double Wave serpent with msu DAs as a durable objective grabber which I think holds up as that takes a decent amount to punch through, so theres a decent chance that a buffed up blob can do work elsewhere, but I'm yet to see if that stands up to the real winners of early 9th.

Yup, that's the match. I feel like Wraithblades might help keep us from getting bullied, but more realistically we either need to take an early lead, or clear the opponent of the objectives by turn 2 so we can start claiming them. Primaries are just too important to avoid completely, and I feel like we need to be holding at least 2/4 to really be competing.

I feel a single Guardian blob for holding a backfield objective (horde it up to 20 models, raise the banners and take some high RoF weapon platforms for Overwatch is basically my plan) since we can easily toss a 4++ on it and leave it unsupported compared to much of the rest of the army.

I want to try outflanking a unit of Wraithguard (or maybe two units, but give one scythes so they keep hordes away from the edges too) as it might force my opponent to keep their more important units away from the table edges allowing us to dictate where they're going early game, but that's something I'm not sure of.

What do you make of the Warp Spider endorsement? Chance to grab one objective and then re-deep strike onto another seems pretty strong right? I've not seen anyone advocate their use before.

Keen to see how people get on once play becomes more regular for everyone. Personally I just finished Eldrad, so I'm super keen to run the ulthwe bomb for a little bit of durability, and as a new player that feels like the most "Eldary" playstyle available to me. That means I've invested a lot though, so any wraithblades I bring are gona have to do a lot of work off of their own backs

 Barbachop wrote:
What do you make of the Warp Spider endorsement? Chance to grab one objective and then re-deep strike onto another seems pretty strong right? I've not seen anyone advocate their use before.

Keen to see how people get on once play becomes more regular for everyone. Personally I just finished Eldrad, so I'm super keen to run the ulthwe bomb for a little bit of durability, and as a new player that feels like the most "Eldary" playstyle available to me. That means I've invested a lot though, so any wraithblades I bring are gona have to do a lot of work off of their own backs

Striking Scorpions and Rangers are a bit higher on my list, Rangers can grab an objective turn 1 and Scorpions can pop up mid to late game to bull a chaffe unit off a backfield objective to claim some points (or just deny some).

Swooping Hawks and Warp Spiders both have nice deep strike options and can do some decent work in shooting as well, which could help hit the enemy in places they less expect it and allow us to take objectives, or just drop into table quarters and hold ground for VP.

The more I look at the army the more I'm seeing our greatest strength is definitely mobility. There shouldn't be a space on the new tables we can't reach via deep strike or our high mobility. I feel that turns 1-3 our probably our best turns to score the primaries, maybe raise some banners too, and then 4-5 should be the turns where we try and keep what's left alive to score secondaries and try and deny opponent's scoring.

But that's one of those "plans last until contact with the enemy" sort of things too.

The more I look at the army the amore I'm seeing our greatest strength is definitely mobility

Probably correct here. I believe most of us will be running the space elf equivalent of "knock knock run away" for a while yet

 Barbachop wrote:

The more I look at the army the amore I'm seeing our greatest strength is definitely mobility

Probably correct here. I believe most of us will be running the space elf equivalent of "knock knock run away" for a while yet

At least it fits the lore. Eldar don't traditionally fight a drag out engagement. We harrass the enemy while bleeding them through a million cuts. They die tired and we get to be smug about it.

Honestly I don't hate that the game pushes us to recreate that on the table, I'm just less sure how to win while doing it. I probably just don't have enough games in and my army is going to take a lot of slow growing and tweaking as I get more games in to really hit a good stride with.

That said, with how deadly this game is to T3 models, I feel any unit we want to live beyond a turn (save Wraiths since they're fairly tough, but even then we might want to go max just to make sure we don't get missile launchered to death or something), is probably going to need to be full sized. We can do a lot to reduce how much is shooting at us, but 5 of anything doesn't last long in this game with our profile. Even if we can spam an invul save of some kind we fold like we're made of paper when pushed too hard, which means we need to likely operate on three fronts:
1. Harrasment units: these units need to be in the enemy's face causing a diversion and helping remove key threats whenever possible. Think Shining Spears as a key example. Melee isn't required, and some anti-tank should be used in some of these units. They don't have to kill the enemy completely, but tying it up and slowing it down is very good use of those units. Units that can threaten the enemy and dictate enemy movement (such as the outflanking Wraithguard, or perhaps Eldar Walkers) can also fit this role, but should be tailored to a list that hits later in the game instead of on turns one to two.
2. Primary Mission units: these units need to be able to squat down on an objective for 3-4 turns even without cover. Sticking them into a Wave Serpent is probably the best idea so they can pop out and sit on the objective. MSU Dire Avengers, small units of Wraithblades with shields, a blob of Guardians with heavy weapons, ect. They don't have to perform secondaries to help win games, but if they can raise banners or perform actions to help run up our tally early on it's probably not a bad plan.
3. Secondary Mission units: these are units that will need to pop up into table quarters, possibly jump onto mission secondaries (such as siphoning plasma) or other such tasks. They mainly try to stay in cover whenever possible, may try to do chip damage, but their main goal is to not die while scoring points. Things like Fire Prisms can fit into this category since they can hang back and still contribute to the game while allowing the army to hold ground on the table.

I feel, and this is just my limited understanding of our codex and 9th, that we'll want a mix of all three. Leaning too hard into any one camp will leave us unable to dictate game flow effectively, won't allow us to score points to win games, and will likely end up with us dying.

We're going to need to be expert clock-makers to win games with this army, with all the pieces lined up and ticking along smoothly to pull out wins. On the flip side, when we do win it's going to feel like we definitely earned it.

 Barbachop wrote:

The more I look at the army the amore I'm seeing our greatest strength is definitely mobility

Probably correct here. I believe most of us will be running the space elf equivalent of "knock knock run away" for a while yet

Mobility and firepower.
I will skip the approach to use MSU DA units as they are easy to remove.
I'll go with Serpents and DA / FD inside, which gives me more confidence, DA for some fire power to whittle down a unit and FD for armored enemies.

Our biggest problem is obsec. Sure, mechdar lists will be good again, because all our mechdar elements got off lightly in the repoint.

But armies with good troops are going to completely outscore us unless we can deny points like bosses. So I think lists that can deny and clear objectives will be paramount. That or, of course, soup.

I think personally soup will be the way to go. Troupes are just so much better than what we can bring to the party, and even wyches with their brutal 38% increase are head and shoulders above our troops. Both have great movement and transport options, both can throw out a little AT, and both are great assaulters, capable of charging and contesting objectives.

I think we have to fall back on outshooting our opponents most of the time.
DA are good troops with a lot of firepower for their points but they need to be protected early on, probably via transports.
I still think vypers and/or warwalkers shuriken spam is the way to go.
Our obsec isn't super durable but we can take out infantry better than most with fast shuriken vehicles being more than happy to dump in shots and then charge in to deny enemy infantry firepower.

Outshooting I agree with. But not in a straight firefight. We need to control what can get hit and when to have the best effect.

Well, Eldar are too squishy when it comes to obsec bar Wraith constructs.
Here soup using Skyweavers could help.

The way I see it is that so far ninth is as much about being hard to remove as it is about removing the enemy. If our troops aren't up to the job then we have to look elsewhere and that's where our light vehicles look good, cheap points per wound than our troops whilst also being tough and mobile with the potential to establish board control by virtue of having a large footprint for move blocking and being pretty durable for the points.
When gw give you lemons make lemonade.

I agree with light vehicles being very good for us. But alone they're not going to be able to do the job imo. Now compare 70pts for 5 DA to 100pts for 5 stealthy intercessors, we're really up against it here. While DA are okayish at holding back objs or bullying a surviving marine, moving up to engage, assault and then hold/tripoint/outnumber/survive an opponent, well I just don't see that.

Whereas 10 wyches running up, slashing impact killing 1.5 intercessors, shooting another, killing another 1.5 in cc, then tying the survivor in melee so they can't be shot at, with 4++/6+++ in cc for the fight back? That could work. Drazhar along for the ride to keep your opponent honest. Yncarne popping up and being a terror...

I think that kind of list (or its harly equivalent) is going to have legs, and can plug into 1k of mechdar very nicely. Yes, that relegates CWE to mooching around at the back shooting stuff, but against the strong obsec game that 9e is ushering in, we're gonna have to adapt to win until new codexes start to drop, imo.

Now compare 70pts for 5 DA to 100pts for 5 stealthy intercessors, we're really up against it here. While DA are okayish at holding back objs or bullying a surviving marine, moving up to engage, assault and then hold/tripoint/outnumber/survive an opponent, well I just don't see that.

Indeed, this looks like an uphill battle.
With overwatch used rarely, our cc units could make in unhindered into cc. That's a progress.

The way I'm looking at Avengers is probably four squads in two serpents that I wouldn't be looking to expose to enemy firepower until necessary because the serpents and vypers move up and start thinning out/shutting down enemy infantry with charges.
I just don't think the Drukhari stuff has the durability to build around, their transports are too fragile and shooting exposed wyches is too easy for my liking.
Harlequins look a better bet to me but honestly I'll still go pure craftworlds, serpents just present such a tougher nut to crack that my troops get out when I want because everything other than my troops is pretty durable against anything other than heavier firepower.
This is my tweaked list

Kingheff - is this list already 9th edition?
If so, just curious and too lazy, how many points would this in the 8th?

I don't think his list is with 9th points. I clock the Vypers as 60@ rather than the 50 he has them at.